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Beat the bastards to it - the cars you need before July 08

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    #32
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭maidhc


    TomMc wrote: »
    Bazz26, all the tax should be put on fuel only so whoever drives the greatest distances and in the highest polluting vehicles pay the most. Scrap road tax and vrt. The new system is typical of Gormley and his green bandits - it is wishy-washy.

    Have a look at UK rates and weep

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10012524

    So the D4 people could have nice 5L Mercs for practically nothing while everyone else in the country pays though their noses for transport, most likely all driving 1.0 Seicentos? Driving in Ireland is still relatively cheap, and that is a good thing for most people.

    What we have here is a tax. If someone can afford to buy a 200k car then, it seems fair enough to tax them for it (in the same way it is fair to tax high earners at 40% or levy CGT on gains people make on shares on investment property). I'm not saying I agree with the tax, but it has some grounding in reality.


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    #33
    TomMc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭TomMc


    Running a car is still cheap in Ireland, really?:eek: - Have you been on the funny fags again.

    People in D4 have exotic cars already if they like them. Who cares, if people are wealthy - it might just be the fruit of their merit, and not for the great unwashed to begrudge them.

    Most people in Ireland are the average Joe & Mary and so making interesting cars prohibitively expensive, is not the way forward. A proper transport system is.


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    #34
    MuffinsDa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭MuffinsDa


    maidhc wrote: »
    So the D4 people could have nice 5L Mercs for practically nothing while everyone else in the country pays though their noses for transport, most likely all driving 1.0 Seicentos? Driving in Ireland is still relatively cheap, and that is a good thing for most people.

    What we have here is a tax. If someone can afford to buy a 200k car then, it seems fair enough to tax them for it (in the same way it is fair to tax high earners at 40% or levy CGT on gains people make on shares on investment property). I'm not saying I agree with the tax, but it has some grounding in reality.

    Well you seem to be totally blinded by your begrudgery of D4 people and don't understand the simple logic various posters are putting forward.

    Yes, the D4 people, as well those in Cork, Monaghan, and Ballywhateverfeck, should have their 5L Mercedes or BMW or Jaguar for cheap if they only drive it 2000Km per year. They won't pollute the air remotely as much as the guy in Ciquecento that drives 30000Km per year, so why should they subsidise him? Just because they are reach they should be ripped off? What's the logic in that? Is this supposed to be punish-the-rich or punish-the-car-enthusiast tax!?

    The whole point of proposals on putting a fuel levy is that it's the only fair (polluter pays!) measure! This way whoever burns more petrol -and therfore emits more CO2- pays more! Why is it so hard to comprehend?


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    #35
    TomMc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭TomMc


    Maidhc, Your argument does not wash as (the new July '08 onwards) road tax makes no allowance for the difference between an ordinary person who can just about afford a moderately economical 30k 2L petrol car and a gas guzzling 200k 5L one.

    People should (and do) get taxed on their income, and not because they have an appreciation of automotive engineering and driving finesse.


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    #36
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    TomMc wrote: »

    People should (and do) get taxed on their income, and not because they have an appreciation of automotive engineering and driving finesse.

    People do get taxed on their income - its called income tax - road tax should be based on the amount you use the road - not whether or not you can afford it!


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    #37
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭blackbox


    bazz26 wrote: »
    PS I could not care less whether anyone drives a fridge, exotic car, bus, whatever for that matter. And I certainly don't feel the need for it to be the eleviation of bordom in my life. A car simply isn't the centre of my world.

    Can't imagine why you are looking at this forum then...


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    #38
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I don't need to make any car look crap to make mine look better, remember we are on a motoring forum where posters are presumed to be enthusiasts,(And anyone who was would take a porsche compared to any toyota) my point is just because I don't want to drive the newest but mundane car available doesn't mean I should pay through the nose for it.
    We're on a motoring forum, where the only presumtion is that no-one knows what they're talking about. Plenty of people here drive ordinary joe cars, and don't want or need a Porsche. You are implying these people are boring and that you are a cut above.


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    #39
    TomMc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭TomMc


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    People do get taxed on their income - its called income tax - road tax should be based on the amount you use the road - not whether or not you can afford it!

    My point exactly.

    I think true car enthusiasts (petrolheads) though, may have to invest in some petroleum jelly instead.


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    #40
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,239 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    blackbox wrote: »
    Can't imagine why you are looking at this forum then...

    Oh dear. :rolleyes:

    There are different levels of enthusiasm or passion, just because I don't get a hard on everytime a Porsche passes up the road doesn't mean my enthusiasm for motoring is any less valid than anyone else.

    And I also would not feel obliged in anyway to prove that level by the type of car I drive on an internet forum.


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    #41
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    I wrote...
    RobAMerc wrote: »
    we are on a motoring forum where posters are presumed to be enthusiasts,(And anyone who was would take a porsche compared to any toyota)
    JHMEG wrote: »
    Plenty of people here drive ordinary joe cars, and don't want or need a Porsche. You are implying these people are boring and that you are a cut above.

    What ? How could you read that from what I said -

    I will try again in plain English for you...

    People who love cars would rather a Porsche than a Toyota - This has nothing to do with anyone being boring or mundane - it has nothing to do with me it has to do with cars.


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    #42
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,660 ✭✭✭maidhc


    MuffinsDa wrote: »
    Well you seem to be totally blinded by your begrudgery of D4 people and don't understand the simple logic various posters are putting forward.

    Yes, the D4 people, as well those in Cork, Monaghan, and Ballywhateverfeck, should have their 5L Mercedes or BMW or Jaguar for cheap if they only drive it 2000Km per year. They won't pollute the air remotely as much as the guy in Ciquecento that drives 30000Km per year, so why should they subsidise him? Just because they are reach they should be ripped off? What's the logic in that? Is this supposed to be punish-the-rich or punish-the-car-enthusiast tax!?

    The Cinquento driver will pay a hell of a lot more tax as it is! Ultimately a 5L Merc is pointless. I love cars, but emotions aside, a owning 5L merc is a pointless as going on the lash on a saturday night. It is fun, but really does no one any good. We have a green government and people are being punished for owning them.

    The good news though is that said 5L mercs will be worth even less secondhand now, so really it is swings and roundabouts for most mere mortals. Most tax is meant to punish the rich, and unfortunately due to the society we live in will increasingly punish the motorist!


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    #43
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I will try again in plain English for you...
    Look, you referred to Toyotas as fridge magnets and said you are bored by them. And the manneer in which you said it implied Toyota owners and drivers who are happy with their cars are somehow not equal to you.
    RobAMerc wrote: »
    People who love cars would rather a Porsche than a Toyota
    You are speaking for others now too. That's a helluva statement from someone who claims to be a car enthusiast. I would say that's one dimensional and lacking in depth.


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    #44
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Look, you referred to Toyotas as fridge magnets and said you are bored by them. And the manneer in which you said it implied Toyota owners and drivers who are happy with their cars are somehow not equal to you.

    I wrote:
    "Just because I would rather have a 20 year old 911, than bore myself to death every time I drive a Toyota Fridge magnet"

    Where does that imply anything about anyone other than I would be bored to death by a Toyota -

    This next statement how ever does...

    You clearly drive a Toyota and have a major complex about it
    JHMEG wrote: »
    You are speaking for others now too. That's a helluva statement from someone who claims to be a car enthusiast. I would say that's one dimensional and lacking in depth.

    this doesn't even justify a response


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    #45
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    IYou clearly drive a Toyota and have a major complex about it
    OMG here we go again. Still speaking for other people.. and still wrong. You must be the only person on this forum who doesn't know I drive a Honda.And that's despite my user name! Maybe you're not used to listening to others.
    RobAMerc wrote: »
    this doesn't even justify a response
    Because there is none. You were caught out.


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    #46
    Dwilly
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭Dwilly


    MuffinsDa wrote: »
    The whole point of proposals on putting a fuel levy is that it's the only fair (polluter pays!) measure! This way whoever burns more petrol -and therfore emits more CO2- pays more! Why is it so hard to comprehend?

    I totally agree but I can see why it wasn't implemented.

    I imagine that the government really know that taxing fuel is the only real equitable way to come down on c02 but they know that it wouldn't work in practice.

    Making a choice about your next car will always be a much more financially planned decision than going to the petrol station. Adding on 10p a litre would never have the same effect. With a bigger variation in car prices at the outset it's more of a conscious decision for the motorist and potentially will choose a lower emitting car.


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