Beat the bastards to it - the cars you need after July 08

Riskymove · 07-12-2007 2:17pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Ah come on! People with the cash to buy a LS600h or GS450h don't care about money!

while the Lexus are Hybrids and produce less emmissions than some similarly sized engines they still emit far higher emmissions than other smaller cars so therefore are punished under the systems

From the green point of view those kinda hybrids are pointless, its the civic/prius type they would like people to hav.......... if they must have a car:rolleyes:

Bluehair · 07-12-2007 2:20pm

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Speaking of MINI, what about the Cooper D Hatchback? 102 g/km, 14% VRT, €100 a year to tax under the new scheme?

They managed to slash the CO2 with the new turbocharged engine but importing an older supercharged one would mean co2 levels of over 200g/km and a grand a year road tax.

The Cooper D is one of the least polluting cars (from a co2 pov anyway) around so will end up very cheap to run, great car to import post V-Day.

Like Unkel suggested at the very start the large cc powerful diesels are really going to benefit hugely from this. The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

The whole thing has defintely changed my approach. I love powerful petrol engine cars but just can't justify it anymore. Luckily i also enjoy the torque (and economy) from the likes of the 330d but the road tax seemed prohibative enough that i just went for petrol anyway. No more.... (330d for me i reckon come July)

Power and economy? Yes please

JHMEG · 07-12-2007 2:40pm

Bluehair wrote: »

The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

galwaytt · 07-12-2007 3:05pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

damn..........

TomMc · 07-12-2007 3:12pm

JHMEG wrote: »

Looks like we're all going to have to get BMWs.

or a Tandem.

Nelly23 · 07-12-2007 3:48pm

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models). QUOTE]

Is it not 141 g/km CO2 that incures 20% VRT and €290 tax and 140 g/km cars will instead have a VRT of 16% and annual tax of 150? I ask this because as plan to import an Audi A3 1.9tdi in July which has emmisions levels of 140 g/km (According to websites I have checked) and I'd hope it would fall in Band B and not Band C??

Gegerty · 07-12-2007 4:03pm

Wrong thread :-#

E92 · 07-12-2007 4:05pm

Nelly23 wrote: »

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Is it not 141 g/km CO2 that incures 20% VRT and €290 tax and 140 g/km cars will instead have a VRT of 16% and annual tax of 150? I ask this because as plan to import an Audi A3 1.9tdi in July which has emmisions levels of 140 g/km (According to websites I have checked) and I'd hope it would fall in Band B and not Band C??

My apologies, indeed it does! The Cooper S is indeed at 16% VRT.

JackieChan · 07-12-2007 4:06pm

Was thinking of getting this...Audi A4 2.0 TDI, 105 kW (143 hp); combined fuel consumption 51.4 mpg; combined CO2 emissions 144 g/km..tax of of 290/year

On the motor tax alone that is some saving a year over current levels(about 592 including budget changes)

Preset No.3 · 07-12-2007 4:22pm

Where do you find out about how prices will change? I found the CO2 calcuator and my current jeep is 250g/kms. What changes are the X5 going to have?

E92 · 07-12-2007 4:52pm

Bluehair wrote: »

They managed to slash the CO2 with the new turbocharged engine but importing an older supercharged one would mean co2 levels of over 200g/km and a grand a year road tax.

The Cooper D is one of the least polluting cars (from a co2 pov anyway) around so will end up very cheap to run, great car to import post V-Day.

Like Unkel suggested at the very start the large cc powerful diesels are really going to benefit hugely from this. The 335d, 535d and 635d are going to be amongst the quickest and most frugal cars on the road, interesting times ahead.

The whole thing has defintely changed my approach. I love powerful petrol engine cars but just can't justify it anymore. Luckily i also enjoy the torque (and economy) from the likes of the 330d but the road tax seemed prohibative enough that i just went for petrol anyway. No more.... (330d for me i reckon come July)

Power and economy? Yes please

Don't forget that EfficientDynamics 6 pot petrol BMW's are VERY close to Efficient Dynamics 6 pot diesels for CO2. The only one that is worse is the 335i.

All the others come extremely close, they're even in the same VRT band. So the large capacity petrol engine isn't dead just yet!

Here's a comparison.

325i Man E90: 170g/km, 24% VRT
325i Auto E90: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Man E90: 155/158 g/km, 20% VRT
325d Auto E90: 169/172 g/km, 24% VRT
330i Man E90: 173/175 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E90: 173/178 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E90: 160 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E90: 175 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E91: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
325i Auto E91: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
325d Man E91: 158 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Auto E91: 172 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Man E91: 175 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E91: 178 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E91: 163 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E91: 176 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E92: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325i Auto E92: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Man E92: 155 g/km, 20% VRT
325d Auto E92: 169 g/km, 24% VRT
330i Man E92: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E92: 173 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E92: 160 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E92: 175 g/km, 28% VRT

325i Man E93: 181 g/km, 28% VRT
325i Auto E93: 187 g/km, 28% VRT
325d Man E93: 164 g/km, 24% VRT
325d Auto E93: 176 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Man E93: 185 g/km, 28% VRT
330i Auto E93: 187 g/km, 28% VRT
330d Man E93: 170 g/km, 24% VRT
330d Auto E93: 181 g/km, 28% VRT

E90 is saloon, E91 is touring, E92 is Coupé, and E93 is Convertible.
So it is very clear that in the case of Auto boxes, the diesel is NO BETTER than the petrol for VRT bar one or 2 case and only few g/km better in many cases. Of course this ONLY applies to EfficientDynamics models. It DOES NOT apply to models without EfficientDynamics, so anyone who is importing/thinking of importing this is extremely important. Non Efficient Dynamics models are only a fraction better than similar cars from rival makes(though still better IIRC). The 330i Auto saloon does 0-100 in 6.3 seconds. I don't have the time to be looking at the 5 series, but AFAIR the difference between 6 pot petrol and diesel is very small again just like with the 3 series.

As I say the diesels are only a few g/km better on CO2 and also only a fraction better on mpg(325i Auto 39.8, 325d Auto 44.1), so I fail to see how a switch to diesel in the case of the BMW is really going to slash fuel bills/tax. If the only thing putting you off but 6 pot petrols is the cost, well I'm just after showing you than EfficientDynamics petrols are nearly as good as their diesel counterparts, in fact the 325i and 330i are AS ECONOMICAL(in fact the 325i does 0.6 mpg MORE than the 318i) under the EU tests as the 318i was in the old 3 series!

Tabnabs · 07-12-2007 5:17pm

For me personally, a quick flick around carzone.ie puts paid to any BMW of the vintage and mileage that I would consider reasonable. But the next car will most definitely be a diesel, nice Saab 9-3 diesel maybe :cool:

Bluehair · 07-12-2007 8:20pm

Dyflin wrote: »

For me personally, a quick flick around carzone.ie puts paid to any BMW of the vintage and mileage that I would consider reasonable.

Thing is though this will be vastly different for imports. I'm seriously considering a 330d touring for July (prob a '02 or '03) and the savings due to the new system are, in a word, huge. Prices for Irish cars of the same year are going to suffer massively as not only will it be cheaper to import one (better spec too) from the UK but it will have an annual road tax liability of half the Irish cars.

There'll be war yet over how this has been implimented as some cars will suffer massive depreciation while others will actually find their pre V-Day cars worth more than those registered post V-Day.

JHMEG · 07-12-2007 9:50pm

Bluehair wrote: »

it be cheaper to import one (better spec too) from the UK but it will have an annual road tax liability of half the Irish cars.

But hold on.. won't the VRT on 2nd hand cars still done by the old system.

.Longshanks. · 07-12-2007 10:57pm

Not if its imported after July 1st.

PaddyFagan wrote: »

I'll try
Any car registered in Ireland now or registered before the 1st July 2008* will be subject to the existing VRT and Road Tax schemes, all be it with a 9% increase in Road Tax

Any car registered in Ireland on or after 1st July 2008* will be subject to the new VRT and Road Tax schemes - both designed to make cars which produce less carbon per km travelled cheaper. (Small Diesel Engines, Hybrids, etc)

* This means that new registrations or imports into Ireland after the 1st July 2008 will be subject to the new VRT and Road Tax schemes, in the case of imports this is the case irrespective of the date of orignal registration in the country of origin.

Mr.Boots · 08-12-2007 4:06am

E92 wrote: »

No it doesn't.... 140 g/km CO2 is the 20% VRT(down from 25%) and it costs €290 a year to tax(only applies to manual box hatchback models).

Speaking of MINI, what about the Cooper D Hatchback? 102 g/km, 14% VRT, €100 a year to tax under the new scheme?

Sorry...meant to say a Mini Cooper s "Convertible" is 1000 euro

pontovic · 04-02-2008 12:54pm

So, just to make it absolutely clear, if I want to import lets say, a diesel ford focus 1.8 in november 2008, my car will be taxed based on emissions instead of engine size, given that the car iself would be from 2001 or 2002 ?

quarryman · 04-02-2008 1:16pm

YES! This has been stated at least 28 times on this thread AND sticky'd and discussed in this forum. How much clarification do you need?!

pontovic · 04-02-2008 1:47pm

Thank you quarryman. I do need alot of clarification as you can see because a car is not just for the summer, it's for life! It just seemed to good to be true that's all

Much love

stifz · 04-02-2008 1:55pm

Here comes another confused poster...

If i have a 95 e220 auto merc.. is my tax just effected by the 9% increase and thats it??

MercMad · 04-02-2008 2:34pm

stifz wrote: »

Here comes another confused poster...

If i have a 95 e220 auto merc.. is my tax just effected by the 9% increase and thats it??

...........yes assuming the car is currently Irish registered !

I wonder if it would be worthwhile my selling my CLK now and then waiting 'till July to replace it !!!

"I feel a plan coming together ! "

RoundyMooney · 04-02-2008 7:15pm

Great thread!

Nice to see I'm not the only one playing the system in my own little way.

There are an awful lot of confused people out there though.

JHMEG · 04-02-2008 7:37pm

VRT contributes €1.5 billion to the economy, and will continue to contribute €1.5 billion or more to the economy after July. So if the civil servants in the Revenue spot a dip starting to form, expect them to up rates where they feel necessary. I would be expecting the rates to be upped substantially in the next budget.

DamoDLK · 04-02-2008 8:30pm

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I guess it will mean alot more mini diesels sold as cooper 's will depreciate quicker as they become less desirible in the used market( as big engined cars do now)
I can see there being more engine choice in ireland in the future, rather than manufactures lumping us with old design petrol and diesle engines (eg bmw 316) we will get a better choice as they compete for the lower co2's

remember in the 80's, having a sunroof was a huge selling point for new cars......Now low co2's will be the usp.

The 316 has only got a 188g/km so by comparison to the diesels theres only an approx 10g/km in the difference.

E92 · 04-02-2008 9:05pm

JHMEG wrote: »

VRT contributes €1.5 billion to the economy, and will continue to contribute €1.5 billion or more to the economy after July. So if the civil servants in the Revenue spot a dip starting to form, expect them to up rates where they feel necessary. I would be expecting the rates to be upped substantially in the next budget.

I wouldn't be surprised either if it went up, though if say they put the rates up too high, then diesels won't be a lot cheaper than they are now and of course we all know how much more petrols will cost under the new scheme, so basically what that will mean is that cars will cost a lot more than at present, so either cars will come with SFA in the future (and I really doubt that will happen) or people will buy a lot less cars so I wonder how they are going manage that. I have to be honest and say that I really am surprised that the Government didn't put a diesel penalty in especially as they said they were trying to make it revenue neutral.

JHMEG · 04-02-2008 11:03pm

E92 wrote: »

if say they put the rates up too high, then diesels won't be a lot cheaper than they are now

The objects of this exercise are
1. to make it look like we're doing something about our Kyoto commitments
2. to appease the Greens to the point where they feel like they actually have some say

...whereas in reality it's business as usual.

As Brian Cowen himself said: 50% of our CO2 is from electricity generation. Replace one major fossil fuel burning power station with something renewable and we're well within our Kyoto agreements. But no, hold on, there's something called the ESB, and unions, and...

E92 · 04-02-2008 11:11pm

JHMEG wrote: »

As Brian Cowen himself said: 50% of our CO2 is from electricity generation. Replace one major fossil fuel burning power station with something renewable and we're well within our Kyoto agreements. But no, hold on, there's something called the ESB, and unions, and...

He also said that Ireland's emissions amount to 7 seconds on a 24 hour clock, so no matter what we do it will make absolutely no difference at all, so what you're saying above is absolutely true.

Though Mr Cowen is supposed to be a bit of a sceptic on the old climate change issue to put it mildly, hence why the Greens want Bert to stay for as long as possible(who actually half kind believes in the climate change thing) but that's for another forum so I'm going to park it there.....

bbability · 04-02-2008 11:57pm

So its pointless me doing anything with my car this year. 06 Passat 1.9tdi. I'm shagged as they say.:(

I might get my hands on that A6 diesel from the UK yet. Some nice S-lines on cargiants website. But it'll have to wait til next year...

Abraham · 05-02-2008 12:26am

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Great thread!

Nice to see I'm not the only one playing the system in my own little way.

There are an awful lot of confused people out there though.

Now listen here all you JamJar Jockeys, ye have me totally confused with all this information. I need a little sorting out.
Wifey's got a Yaris 05 but I think I'll be OK under the new system with that, if I'm reading things right.

But I've got a really lovely Rover 75 CDTi (that's a T/dsl) with that great BMW 2 litre engine and I want to keep it awhile longer because it's a fab motor which I just love driving in. Anyone tell me how I'll fare out with the Rover in the new taxation system ? Should be OK shouldn't I since the engine is really a BMW and they're doing best of all under the new scheme ?

Esel · 05-02-2008 1:24am

stifz wrote: »

Here comes another confused poster...

If i have a 95 e220 auto merc.. is my tax just effected by the 9% increase and thats it??

Over two litre increase is 11%, afair.

Beat the bastards to it - the cars you need after July 08

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