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Wireless Dublin plan?

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    #32
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    RedPlanet wrote: »
    Your line of argument would have it that the public shouldn't build the roads; rather let the owners of motor cars do it, adn those car and petrol companies.
    No, I'm all in favour of initiatives that help a city. Roads, footpaths, cycle facilities and civic amenities are all good examples.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    I disagree that internet access is not directly related to the city it's in. I think there exists potential here that is not necessarily realized in the present environment.
    Why exactly? Could you elaborate?
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    It reminds me when India invested very heavily in Fiber optic cables for high speed internet many years ago. It took nearly 10 years for that investment to flower.
    The arguments for wired broadband access are different to those for free WiFi. So far, I have not heard any cogent arguments for 'free' WiFi.
    sovtek wrote:
    So...if it benefits the public in general which it would obviously....It benefits the citizens that inhabit the city.
    So would giving everyone free electricity.
    sovtek wrote:
    Why should they have to (pay)?
    Somebody has to pay. It costs money to provide the service. Either way, we pay through increased taxes or by a contract with an ISP.


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    #33
    starn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭starn


    Really cant see this going ahead


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    #34
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Did I dream this or was there some plan a few years back to make Longford a wireless community?

    Did that ever happen?


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    #35
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    sovtek wrote: »
    How is just having free access at libraries a better way than actually making it free for all through out the city?
    It's cheaper and it's available to people who don't have computers or a place to use them.


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    #36
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    No, I'm all in favour of initiatives that help a city. Roads, footpaths, cycle facilities and civic amenities are all good examples.
    Sure you are, with the benefit of hindsight.
    When modern roads were built (and i suppose i'm referring to the example of California, but i thnk the model holds true most everywhere); there was already a network of cobble-stone streets and tram lines. People still got around ok; they walked more, they took the tram and goods were still delivered, sometimes by cart and horse. When cars became accessible to the rich and newly rich, a need developed for modern roads. There wasn't a queue of petrol powered, refrigerated lorries sitting idle, waiting for wide smooth roads to be built. No, there was just the demands of a minority group, wanting the ability to take their petrol powered machines to more and more places.
    This network of modern roads was financed by joe-public. Even tho at the time it was not apparent that the roads being built were in their interest. Eventually the road network benefited pretty much everybody. Except of course for those business people making a living delivering goods via horse and cart!
    So fair enough, today in hindsight we can say: Sure, a modern road network built for motor vehicles benefits us all. However, what would your argument have been, in 1899?
    Tomas_V wrote: »
    Why exactly? Could you elaborate?
    I'm no entrepreneaur. However allowing freely accessible access to the internet for the wide public strikes me as a potential gold mine, for those so inspired. It could also be a great educational tool.
    Tomas_V wrote: »
    The arguments for wired broadband access are different to those for free WiFi. So far, I have not heard any cogent arguments for 'free' WiFi.
    Wired broad band is static, it doesn't travel. What about people on the bus, why not have internet available as they travel, or the train?
    Tomas_V wrote: »
    So would giving everyone free electricity.
    It sure would, so would petrol. Can't you forsee the argument in a few years when oil becomes more and more expensive... for subsizing motorists at the petrol pump, not to mention the home?
    Are you going to say no, or yes?


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    #37
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    sovtek wrote: »
    What's your point? That's its regulated by the government in the public interest?
    Basically, yes. The notable exception is the licence-exempt spectrum WiFi uses, which is still regulated, but in a much less controlled way.

    Sure, it's "our" spectrum, and as such anyone can do whatever they want in licence-exempt space within the guidelines set out. But claiming that the electromagnetic spectrum is "ours" is in no way an argument in favour of the project being discussed.
    sovtek wrote: »
    Just because some capitalists were expecting to get rich is no reason to hold off on something that greatly benefits the public as a whole.
    If you're going to eliminate capitalism in the "public interest", why start with wireless Internet? Why not start handing out free food? That would be more useful to a lot more people. Those fat cat retailers have it coming to them.
    sovtek wrote: »
    Incidentally private bus companies receive subsidies as well.
    How long would a subsidised bus company survive in competition with a free publicly-run one?


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    #38
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    RedPlanet wrote: »
    Sure you are, with the benefit of hindsight.So fair enough, today in hindsight we can say: Sure, a modern road network built for motor vehicles benefits us all. However, what would your argument have been, in 1899?
    You're assuming you've identified the key technology. WiFi is not designed for wide-area use.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    I'm no entrepreneaur. However allowing freely accessible access to the internet for the wide public strikes me as a potential gold mine
    But you're giving it away for free? :confused: I can imagine how this would play in "Dragon's Den"
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    , for those so inspired. It could also be a great educational tool.
    Kids already have Internet access at school, in libraries and at home.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    why not have internet available as they travel, or the train?
    We do already. Sign up with Vodafone, O2 or 3.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    It sure would, so would petrol. Can't you forsee the argument in a few years when oil becomes more and more expensive... for subsizing motorists at the petrol pump, not to mention the home?
    Are you going to say no, or yes?
    You don't know sarcasm when you see it.


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    #39
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    We do already. Sign up with Vodafone, O2 or 3.
    What argument do you have for restricting the technology to a handful of corporatations?
    Tomas_V wrote: »
    You don't know sarcasm when you see it.
    Oh i do. I've you pegged for the subsidizing of motorists.
    And i think that's ironic, given your position on electricty.


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    #40
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,423 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    Somebody has to pay. It costs money to provide the service. Either way, we pay through increased taxes or by a contract with an ISP.
    Its a marginal cost. the city already has the fibre network that will be the backbone of this system.

    I imagine certain types of traffic could be blocked by technical means to prevent extreme abuse.


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    #41
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    RedPlanet wrote: »
    What argument do you have for restricting the technology to a handful of corporatations?
    None at all. I don't think it's a good idea. But there is a need to regulate wireless spectrum or there would be chaos far worse than the selfish mess that is Dublin traffic.
    RedPlanet wrote: »
    Oh i do. I've you pegged for the subsidizing of motorists.... And i think that's ironic, given your position on electricty.
    1: I cycle mostly & I don't own a car. 2: What do you think my position on electricity is?

    The point of this thread is not whether or not Free WiFi is a good thing, but whether or not a viable proposition exists to provide the kind of Internet access that benefits the city and its inhabitants in a cost-effective way.

    What are the so-called 'marginal costs of erecting and maintaining thousands of antennae and supporting equipment installations? What will the cost be of the terrabytes of 'free' bandwith?

    In what way will the commerce of Dublin be enhanced. To what extent will this subsidise non-productive activity or help people buy stuff from outside Dublin?

    How much extra tax will I have to pay?

    Give more details of costs and the benefits.

    Quite honestly, this scheme sounds like an an old election promise rather than a strategic plan.


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