Should a father have equal rights as a mother?

Piste

Do the kids not get a say? Assuming that they're of an old enough age to know what's going on! I;d imagine most kinds would want their daddy to be as much a part of their life as their mum.

Maple

Piste wrote: »

Do the kids not get a say? Assuming that they're of an old enough age to know what's going on! I;d imagine most kinds would want their daddy to be as much a part of their life as their mum.

in my own situation, no we didn't get a say. and even if we had i really don't know what we could have said. its a horribly fraught situation, you're walking a tightrope trying not to hurt one parents feelings over the other one. often kids just go with the status quo for fear of upsetting everyone.

Malteaser!

Piste wrote: »

Do the kids not get a say? Assuming that they're of an old enough age to know what's going on! I;d imagine most kinds would want their daddy to be as much a part of their life as their mum.

I was the same as Maple, I was never really given a choice.

But even when i was asked, it was very difficult to say to my mum that I wanted to go see my dad becasue I was afraid that her feelings would be hurt and she she'd think I preferred my dad but at the same time I was afraid that by not saying anything I was hurting my dad. I know when I was smaller I just kept quiet and let them sort everything out even if it meant that I didn't get to see my dad as often as I wanted.

villains77

Peared wrote: »

Maybe in an ideal world. What about men who feck off when the woman gets pregnant, should he have equal rights? Or if he decided to come back after a year or two and takes a sudden interest in the child, should he have equal rights? Should rights be given for donation of sperm? And what about children born as a result of rape, should daddy have rights over baby then? The woman physically creates the child within her, the man does not and never will have that attatchment.

its the man that makes it with the woman 2. doh have u forgotten

Peared

villains77 wrote: »

its the man that makes it with the woman 2. doh have u forgotten

Yes! Yes I had. Why didn't somebody remind me of this sooner, I would have had a completely different opinion then.


Did you read my post at all? Obviously the man contributes but the woman physically nourishes and grows the child with and in her own body. Not a point you can really refute.

matrim

MLE wrote: »

as well as the day to day grind of bringing up the little darlings

You do realise that if the man were to get the rights to see the child much of this day to day grind could be lessened. Also if the man could get custody then it would be him doing the day to day grind.

Ickle Magoo

In pregnancy no, after birth 50/50...

The Dudette

Peared wrote: »

Maybe in an ideal world. What about men who feck off when the woman gets pregnant, should he have equal rights? Or if he decided to come back after a year or two and takes a sudden interest in the child, should he have equal rights? Should rights be given for donation of sperm? And what about children born as a result of rape, should daddy have rights over baby then? The woman physically creates the child within her, the man does not and never will have that attatchment.

I have to agree with this comment completely, which isn't easy for me to say. I'm 5 months pregnant and it's a real pain in the neck that my loving fiance (soon to be loving father) has to actually apply for guardianship. Unfortunately, there are too many cases as Peared listed above to say they should have equal rights, given the circumstances.

eth0_

Damn right they should, a father is just as important to a child as its mother.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is being arrogant.

Jules

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

In pregnancy no, after birth 50/50...

Why not in pregnancy?

Ickle Magoo

I don't think a man has a right to a woman's body & what happens to it...I was thinking about a man demanding she have an abortion...

Gordon

Equal rights until proven otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty. For both the mother and father.

doonothing

Jesus, I would gladly carry my child to term in my womb if i had one, but the fact that I physically and biologically cannot means I have less of a right to raise my child?

I completely understand the attachment a woman gains (sorry, MIGHT gain) when pregnant, but being male disqualifies me from equal rights as a parent because I can't become similarly attached (even though my attachment might be much more profound than the mother's)?

And, because some men abandon their children, I shoudl be denied my rights as a parent? It doesn't make one iota of sense that I, or any man (or any woman), should suffer because of the mistakes of others.

Peared

See I dont think men should be denied the same rights. I just dont think those rights should be automatic. There are too many exceptions and too many cases where this would not be appropriate to make it a blanket ruling. Of course loving fathers should have equal rights regarding their children. My point is just that if its automatic then the assholes out there, and, you know, there are quite a lot of them, automatically get a say in a childs life that really, they shouldnt have. If it comes down to biology then those automatic rights include rapists, doners, one night stands, men who desert and come back etc.

Agent Smith

i can say this, with out conviction.

It makes me sick that a father can not, and does not, have the same rights a father has, when the couple is unmarried.

Peared

agent smith wrote: »

i can say this, with out conviction.

It makes me sick that a father can not, and does not, have the same rights a father has, when the couple is unmarried.

Without conviction?

Also whats the story with that sig about Stargal, it don't sound very jokey.

doonothing

Peared wrote: »

See I dont think men should be denied the same rights. I just dont think those rights should be automatic. There are too many exceptions and too many cases where this would not be appropriate to make it a blanket ruling. Of course loving fathers should have equal rights regarding their children. My point is just that if its automatic then the assholes out there, and, you know, there are quite a lot of them, automatically get a say in a childs life that really, they shouldnt have. If it comes down to biology then those automatic rights include rapists, doners, one night stands, men who desert and come back etc.

Ok, I think we can all safely agree that no one thinks rapists should have automatic rights, so you can stop bringing that one up!
Why is a man more likely to be an "asshole", than a woman being a complete c*nt?
I agree though, a blanket automatic ruling is unfair in a lot of circumstances. Which is exactly why it is unfair that this automatic ruling is in place for women and not for men.
Many women really shouldn't have a say in a child's life, but this blanket ruling that you so vehemently deny fathers, is also what gives these women their say in the child's life.
It's complete double standards, with the exception of rapists (which we have agreed on), all of your points about men not getting equal rights can and do apply equally to women.

Peared

Yes and any parent that is a **** parent should be treated accordingly. But like it or not the woman carries the baby and is undeniably the mother. Who decides who the father is? What if he's not really? All I'm saying is there are so many exceptions and difficult cases that a one for all rule wouldnt work. If both parties agree then theres no problem. But think of the amount of single women having babies where things are not this simple.

Tricity Bendix

Peared wrote: »

Who decides who the father is?

Maury?

Seriously, just because a test is required to prove paternity does not mean fathers' rights should be in any way lessened.

legspin

Jules80 wrote: »

Sperm donation, no rights. .

If a woman asked me for a donation I would have to insist on my rights. If I'm good enough to be a sire I should be good enough to be a father as well (assuming my wife hadn't killed me first).

villains77

sorry if i came across as sarcastic. just my ex had 2 misscarriages in the past and it kind of a touchy subject with me.No longer with her anymore not because of that. . pregnancies and all that. so if i offended you i apologise. What if the mother was termnally ill and there is no cure for what she had and she had kids .. what rights would the father have then?
sorry again.

have a great crimbo and new year .

doonothing

Peared wrote: »

Yes and any parent that is a **** parent should be treated accordingly. But like it or not the woman carries the baby and is undeniably the mother. Who decides who the father is? What if he's not really? All I'm saying is there are so many exceptions and difficult cases that a one for all rule wouldnt work. If both parties agree then theres no problem. But think of the amount of single women having babies where things are not this simple.

You're ignoring that the one for all rule you're so against is exactly what is in place! Except that it favours the mother for the sole reason that she is the one who is biologically capable of carrying the child!
And, again, just because we don't have the undeniable proof of paternity that the mother has (ie. the child doesn't actually come out us), does not mean we should have less rights as a parent either!

Peared

villains77 Im very sorry to hear that, I hope the new year is a better one for you. You didn't offend me and I apologise if my sarcasm upset you. Its hard to figure out where people are coming from on here sometimes.

I think people are choosing to take little bits of my posts and not see the overall picture of what I am saying. For the last time I do not think fathers should be denied rights, I just do not think they should be automatic. Some people disagree, thats fine, but its the way it stands at the moment and I feel there is good reason for that.

jpk1976

MY fiance and I have a beautiful 16 month old daughter who we both adore-As I work shift hours I have 3 or 4 days off a week and as such i am the primary home care giver for our little one.I have been there for my fiance and daughter from the moment of her conception and hope to be for the rest of my life.
What really gets me annoyed is that because we are not married I have to fill out a form to gain legal rights to my own daughter-if we were married(give it a year) then my rights would be automatic but the catholic conservatism that still underlines laws in this country has deemed that our family as it stands,is not worthy of the same rights as one that has been joined in matrimony.
It makes my blood boil when people say men shouldn't have rights because some men are assholes and leave their kids etc-its the guys who don't do this that are being punished-while a married man can walk out,ignore and casually parent at his leisure and his rights are protected.Tell me how is a married wayward father better than an ummarried one?

Black Swan

Sharing is caring: All rights, duties and responsibilities should be shared.

Sangre

Peared wrote: »

villains77 Im very sorry to hear that, I hope the new year is a better one for you. You didn't offend me and I apologise if my sarcasm upset you. Its hard to figure out where people are coming from on here sometimes.

I think people are choosing to take little bits of my posts and not see the overall picture of what I am saying. For the last time I do not think fathers should be denied rights, I just do not think they should be automatic. Some people disagree, thats fine, but its the way it stands at the moment and I feel there is good reason for that.

In this legal system non-automatic rights is effectively a denial of rights.

the GALL

jpk1976 wrote: »

MY fiance and I have a beautiful 16 month old daughter who we both adore-As I work shift hours I have 3 or 4 days off a week and as such i am the primary home care giver for our little one.I have been there for my fiance and daughter from the moment of her conception and hope to be for the rest of my life.
What really gets me annoyed is that because we are not married I have to fill out a form to gain legal rights to my own daughter-if we were married(give it a year) then my rights would be automatic but the catholic conservatism that still underlines laws in this country has deemed that our family as it stands,is not worthy of the same rights as one that has been joined in matrimony.
It makes my blood boil when people say men shouldn't have rights because some men are assholes and leave their kids etc-its the guys who don't do this that are being punished-while a married man can walk out,ignore and casually parent at his leisure and his rights are protected.Tell me how is a married wayward father better than an ummarried one?

dont complain about that form you have to fill out my daughter was born out of wedlock and i never thought of that form when her mother an i split up i had no end of hard ship tryiung to get my rights to my daughter like i was a bad father (the ex wanted an abortion, was unfaithful)and i was the one with cap in hand in front of a judge dear sir can i see MY DAUGHTER two months later the ex wanted to go to england (shes english)yea says the judge work away i see the little one 2/3 times a year on her terms
sorry for the rant
but the dont tell ya this in school

MLE

matrim wrote: »

You do realise that if the man were to get the rights to see the child much of this day to day grind could be lessened. Also if the man could get custody then it would be him doing the day to day grind.

I have kids with my lovely husband and he has equal rights at we are happily married, but he doesnt contribute equally in the daily grind..

WindSock

Moral of the story is...no sex before Marriage.

Crumble Froo

or condoms.

never forget the condoms.