Car impounded for VRT...

ejmaztec

BnA wrote: »

Please allow me to translate that post.

"I had a run in with the customs because I was trying to avoid paying VRT or some other kind of import duty. Therefore, I don't like them.

I saw them questioning some genuine UK tourists in a carpark in Tralee one summer.

I also saw them other times that summer doing their job.

Therefore (and I'm not biased here) I feel I can say that they have hassled numerous tourists who will never come back to this country again"

end of translation

You really shouldn't read into things that don't exist (e.g. Tralee = Listowel). I have every respect for the Revenue authorities and was making a simple point. Unlike many people, I am not a tax dodger with a grudge. :rolleyes:

meathstevie

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

tossy

Had a run in with 2 guards last year it subsequently turned into a long friendly chat,it all started over a query about my german style reg plates,turns out these 2 guards were specifically tasked with stopping cars on foreign plates that might be dodging VRT payments,they were worknig under the auspices of customs.

THis was in a pretty afluent area of south dublin and he ran down al ist of cars they had "nabbed" in the last while,including 2 360s and an RS4,some were from tip offs and others were from just crusing around,they were driving a ford focus est van and it was probably if not one of the best unmarked cars ive ever seen.

Henry Ford III

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

If you live in Cavan the answer is yes I suspect.

kluivert

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

kluivert

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

I rang Santry office one day to confirm this.

Situation was: Company based in Dublin wanted to employ a gentleman salesman from Belfast to work in NI and supply him with a NI reg car. I said that the car owner will be the Irish company and that this gentleman will have to appear in Dublin for sales meetings. If he gets stopped what is the issue.

I was told done, because the car is KEPT in NI and doesnt appear in Ireland for more than say I think it was 183 days during the year then there is no requirement to VRT the car.

Now I live in Monaghan close to Culloville, I could have the same arguement, but the question they asked is where is the car parked come midnight of the day. No way around it, as it goes by your license, if you have a NI license then your ok.

BnA

meathstevie wrote: »

Try this for I funny one, purely hypothetical :
- I live in Cavan
- I work in Tyrone, regular Monday to Friday commute
- My parents live in Fermanagh and I visit them every Saturday
- On Sunday I go for a long drive that takes me over the border and back a
few times
- I drive on a NI reg, taxed and insured at my parent's address

Now my question : since the car isn't in the State for any 24hr day at any time do I have to pay VRT ?

By right you should have to as Cavan is your full time address. Where you work doesn't come into it unless the car is a work car and is actually registered in the company's name.

If you were stopped on the side of the road, you'd probably be fine as the car is registered, taxed and insured in the north and you could say you live at home in Fermanagh. However, if the customs were watching your area in Cavan and had noticed the car outside the door a few times and decided to call to the door (as they have been known to do) then you might find it a bit trickier to explain. You could of course say that Fermanagh is your full time address and you only stay in Cavan one or two nights a week, and you would probably get away with it. But if you got a stickler of an officer, he might just make it his business to pass your way a few days a week for a few weeks to note how often you are there before calling back.

If I was in your shoes, I'd take my chances. Particularly if it's a half decent car that would cost a lot to VRT.

JohnCleary

kluivert wrote: »

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

Yes, Customs have as much, if not more power than the Guards

If the Guards lift your car for whatever reason, yes, you can go to the Garda compound with a trailer and take it home.

However, I don't think this is the case with Customs. I think they can retain it until you pay VRT. This makes sense really, chances are if Guards lift the car it's because its unroadworthy/not insured etc. so it's OK to trailer it off, but if Customs have your car chances are it's because you haven't paid your taxes

Our man in Havana

What would be the clincher for customs would be if you hold a ROI driving licence. Having a NI licence would get rid of them easily. Simply say you living in Fermanagh and you are seeing a lady friend in Cavan who allows you to stay over on occasion.

rebel.ranter

Bendihorse wrote: »

Does he plan on driving it uncleared forever boasting about the all the money he 'wont' hand over?

He SHOULD cut his gains at some point before it becomes losses and then who starts to look like a fool? Not you

Its not really a 'saving' anyway unless he actually clears it at SOME point. As a wise man once said 'i hope it stays fine for him'

It's an older car with a bit of exclusivity attached to it. He has now taken the car off the road to replace all the suspension components. He plans on clearing the car after that, before June as it has crap CO2 emission rating. So if he sticks to his current plan he'll be OK. To be fair he doesn't boast about it, he is a fairly modest type of guy TBH.

Again I am not advocating breaking the law, I did pay my VRT.

I often wondered about who the registered owner of the car is in this situation, the UK owner is no longer registered as the owner & in this case the car is not registered in this state either.

Bendihorse

I dont know, the UK owner is not the registered owner anyway as they send back the slip off the end of the tax book to the DVLA to say that the car has been exported. I guess under those circumstances, there is no registered owner of the vehicle.

Good for him that hes got away with not paying for so long, its just the longer he lets it go on the more likely he is to get caught, therefore it would be a false economy. The fact that its a classic would probably stand to him at checkpoints as the cops wouldn't think its his regular wheels and is just a 'Sunday Drive'.

I wouldn't get on my high horse over someone not paying VRT cos its not even legal ffs, but i would be of the opinion 'don't do the crime if ya cant do the time'

Our man in Havana

the UK owner is no longer registered as the owner

I think you will find he is until you clear it. The DVLA will not accept an irish address so the uk guy cannot get his name off the car.

Mylow

whippet wrote: »

have you any evidence of this? or did you just make it up?

It happened to some friends of mine from England while touring in Cork. Said he had been speeding, he said Gards were down right rude. Guess what, they cut holiday short and went home, very upset at treatment, they said they had felt very threatened.

I also had an incident where I was stopped at Kilmainham, one Garda waved me on while there colleague was talking to some other motorist. The occupied Garda then jumped out in front of me and asked what my rush was? I told him his colleauge had waved me on, the colleauge walked away. If I had the balls or inclination I would have made a formal complaint. But like everything else here, I would just be beating my head against a wall.

I have a friend who is PC in Hampshire Constabulary, he told me if they have a complaint made against them by someone with no prior conviction or 'known' to police they lose all overtime until complaint is resolved. Can you imagine that happening here?

I see Customs regularly driving around my estate, they normally record NI/UK reg car numbers and then following morning wait at exit of estate and impound the cars. They do it quiet regularly around Drogheda, I have never seen tham take a LT/LV/or P plate car, always NI and UK reg ones. You will find articles on Unison, look up 'Drogheda Independant'

Bendihorse

Bond-007 wrote: »

I think you will find he is until you clear it. The DVLA will not accept an irish address so the uk guy cannot get his name off the car.

The way they deal with a car being exported is different to one being sold internally, under normal circumstances the old owner sends the tax book back to the DVLA to get the names changed but when its being exported, the new owner takes the tax book instead and a special 'Car Export' section of the form is signed by both parties and sent back to DVLA.

The guy i bought my car off checked and rechecked that he would not be considered the registered owner after we bought the car for export as he was concerned that he would be held liable if we picked up speeding points.

triple-M

how do car dealers get away without paying vrt i know many a car dealer who solely import cars from ni dont pay vrt(and have 40-50 cars in warehouse/yardon ni reg) and sell them on here at a profit,and can they only impound your car from a public road or from your home address too ,im thinking of buying a used passat up north which is going much cheaper than usual and just leaving it in the driveway until i have vrt money saved up:)

JohnCleary

triple-M wrote: »

how do car dealers get away without paying vrt i know many a car dealer who solely import cars from ni dont pay vrt(and have 40-50 cars in warehouse/yardon ni reg) and sell them on here at a profit,and can they only impound your car from a public road or from your home address too ,im thinking of buying a used passat up north which is going much cheaper than usual and just leaving it in the driveway until i have vrt money saved up:)

Traders have a TAN

Seth Brundle

Bendihorse wrote: »

Hes currently trying to challenge it through whatever legal chanels are open to him, i told him that he should just suck it up and learn a lesson. They are now investigating all his tax affairs, even though hes just a normal joe soap with one job and no nixers going on. Its really not worth chancing it.

He hasn't a chance. The VRT laws are quite specific with no loopholes AFAIK. It isn't illegal for them to charge a registration tax.

kluivert wrote: »

Can customs impound a car, I thought that it was only the Gardai that can do this.

If they impound it, go to the Garda impound with a low loader and take the car home and park it off the road.

VRT the car the next day.

IIRC in this area, customs have more power. They can enter your premesis and take it without bothering to tell you. Gardai need a warrant.

TheBigLebowski

JohnCleary wrote: »

Traders have a TAN

Traders still have to pay VRT even if they have a TAN.

Our man in Havana

Is the difference that they don't pay the vrt until they sell it to a punter?

Biro

Bond-007 wrote: »

Is the difference that they don't pay the vrt until they sell it to a punter?

Ya, that's it. They must pay VRT when they sell the car, and register it in the new buyer's name. They're not allowed sell a car without paying VRT, but they don't have to pay it until they sell the car.

JohnCleary

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Traders still have to pay VRT even if they have a TAN.

... What TheBigLabowski said...

meathstevie

A trader can pop his garage plate on any "stock item" and drive it. Once the car gets registered to a proper owner, i.e. not an official trader VRT is due.

By the way my Cavan thingy was pure hypothesis, I live in Meath drive on a Dublin reg and my folks live nowhere near Fermanagh

vibe666

what about someone with a UK licence driving a UK regged car with a house here and in the UK?

Surely you are entitled to drive your car wherever you want? or do customs expect you to pay a couple of grand to re-register your car every time you get off the ferry?

Our man in Havana

Customs are smarter than that.

They will look for bills, tax forms etc to prove where you live/work.

lm7

like in so many other areas of Irish life civil servants can do as they please because they know they can get away with it.

vibe666

Bond-007 wrote: »

Customs are smarter than that.

They will look for bills, tax forms etc to prove where you live/work.

what's to stop someone from living and working in 2 countries at the same time?

BnA

Mylow wrote: »

It happened to some friends of mine from England while touring in Cork. Said he had been speeding, he said Gards were down right rude. Guess what, they cut holiday short and went home, very upset at treatment, they said they had felt very threatened.

I also had an incident where I was stopped at Kilmainham, one Garda waved me on while there colleague was talking to some other motorist. The occupied Garda then jumped out in front of me and asked what my rush was? I told him his colleauge had waved me on, the colleauge walked away. If I had the balls or inclination I would have made a formal complaint. But like everything else here, I would just be beating my head against a wall.

I have a friend who is PC in Hampshire Constabulary, he told me if they have a complaint made against them by someone with no prior conviction or 'known' to police they lose all overtime until complaint is resolved. Can you imagine that happening here?

I see Customs regularly driving around my estate, they normally record NI/UK reg car numbers and then following morning wait at exit of estate and impound the cars. They do it quiet regularly around Drogheda, I have never seen tham take a LT/LV/or P plate car, always NI and UK reg ones. You will find articles on Unison, look up 'Drogheda Independant'

Of for the love and honour of it would you get over yourself.

Did the big bold Garda Warda ask you what your rush was...? And you wanted to lodge a formal complaint...????? What did he do, did he drag you out of the car and bate you on the bonnet ????? No... No..... Ok Ok let me guess again. Did he bate you over the head with his flashlamp, throw you into the boot of his squad car and dump you in a forest. No.... Oh.....

So what exactly did he do to warrant a formal complaint....???

The only saving grace, was that behind your bullcrap, you were too lazy to do anything about it which spared some Garda time being wasted.

alias no.9

Biro wrote: »

Ya, that's it. They must pay VRT when they sell the car, and register it in the new buyer's name. They're not allowed sell a car without paying VRT, but they don't have to pay it until they sell the car.

I'm open to correction on this but I think they must also have enough money in a specific account to cover the VRT liability, even though they don't officially hand anything over until they sell the motor.

Mylow

BnA wrote: »

Of for the love and honour of it would you get over yourself.

Did the big bold Garda Warda ask you what your rush was...? And you wanted to lodge a formal complaint...????? What did he do, did he drag you out of the car and bate you on the bonnet ????? No... No..... Ok Ok let me guess again. Did he bate you over the head with his flashlamp, throw you into the boot of his squad car and dump you in a forest. No.... Oh.....

So what exactly did he do to warrant a formal complaint....???

The only saving grace, was that behind your bullcrap, you were too lazy to do anything about it which spared some Garda time being wasted.

There's the problem, its acceptable to be rude. Do you commend low standards?

From your arguement the line is drawn at physical beatings. It's very simple 2 Garda working 'together' one didn't know what the other was doing (One waves you on, the other then stops you???). If they cannot operate a simple checkpoint, then what chance have they of carrying out any task that requires a bit of brain power. Being aggressive to motorists at a checkpoint is not exactly professional. The problem is people like him ruin it for all the other Garda who are very professional in carrying out their duty. Thats the reason people like this should not be tolerated as they dis-credit there colleagues.

2 reasons for not complaining at the time there was no Garda Ombudsman, the 2nd I was home 4 days.

Bearcat

May I add my 2p worth. Bringing in a UK car and sneaking around is lethal. There is a dedicated section of gardai that place themselves in areas for periods of time. In liason with customs or with a warrant they snatch cars. One of my pals brought in a BMW 520i 00/01/02?. Nothing special...his name was the same as his Dads and his father resided in the UK. He feigned that he lived in the uk but the bouys had their home work done and were waiting for him in the interrogation.

Pissing around with evading vrt, high lights you to the revenue. My pal was trousered in fines and vrt and his business was slapped with a full revenue audit. He was fine in the audit but the revenue went thru him for everything.

Keep your head low, pay your vrt. Dont buy the car if you cant afford the vrt.

Customs will snatch a mini to a ferrari........it's all fair game. Unfair game is the constant traffic checkpoints in South Dublin badgering the decent public.....