Pike Killers

blue diver

How Maney Pepole Think Pike Should Be Kiled
The Way Things Are Goning Ther Will Be None Left
Pike Bye Laws My Ass

yank_in_eire

How many people think that Blue Diver should take a course in remedial spelling? Now there's a poll!!!:D:D

blue diver

yank_in_eire wrote: »

How many people think that Blue Diver should take a course in remedial spelling? Now there's a poll!!!:D:D

yank the ****

sickpuppy

YES KILL THEM ALL

Pike are very abundant in my local river the river suck.
Two miles away there is a small trout river which is riddled with them if you were spinning you could catch 5 or 6 in a 4or500meter stretch.
20 YEARS ago when i strated fishing everything was killed pike perch etc.
Now i return all fish except the odd pike which i consume it ios alovely fish to eat.
I do not see a problem with the taking of a small pike from a heavily infested water a fish about 3 or 4 pounds is perfect size for nice fillets.
Maybe in certain parts of the country there is wholesale slaughter
by eastern europenas or germans on holiday who fill there freezers.
I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for killing pike and in over 20years of fishing have only seen a baliff once on a river bank.

Duzzie

Pike should not be culled. Culling creates more of a problem than leaving them alone. Culling in the past resulted in the culling of larger pike. This resulted in a boom in the number of Jacks. Larger females are very effective in controlling the number of small pike and they eat them. Kill of the larger fike and you will have a large number of Jacks, which will affect the number of other fish in the system.
A lot of pike are now being killed by fishermen for "food". This is a major problem at the moment. I have noticed a drop in the quality and quantity of decent sized pike in the rivers and lakes of Ireland. It really is a sorry state of affairs.

Duzzie

starn

NO PIKE KILING

Pike are Scum, they eat there own. Kill em all I say

Duzzie

starn wrote: »

Pike are Scum, they eat there own. Kill em all I say

Thats a bit of an over simplification. The adult fish of the majority of species will eat their own young given the chance. There are a lot of canabilistic species in all elements of the animal world. In the insect world, many insect males will sacrifice themselves to the female to eat to provide nourishment to their offspring. Do you advocate killing them all. It would make for a very lonely planet. Canabilism is a fact of nature. To single out pike on that basis is a bit short sighted IMO.

Duzzie

starn

NO PIKE KILING

Duzzie wrote: »

Do you advocate killing them all

Yes

Duzzie

starn wrote: »

Yes

Ok, each to their own. The fact is the world would be a very different place if all these calabilistic creatures weren't on this world. It would be questionable whether we would be here at all, but thats a different discussion.

Duzzie

sickpuppy

YES KILL THEM ALL

Duzzie i dont see a problem in keepinga few jacks anything over 5 6 pound returned.
As you say large fish are a natural balance in a river or lake system.
I think irish anglers attitudes have changes in recent years.
In 1986 iwas in a fishing comp for under 14s everything was killed id 5 pike that day and this was organised by the angling club.
Peopel advocating kill them all have smaller brains than the fish.

Duzzie

sickpuppy wrote: »

Duzzie i dont see a problem in keepinga few jacks anything over 5 6 pound returned.
As you say large fish are a natural balance in a river or lake system.
I think irish anglers attitudes have changes in recent years.
In 1986 iwas in a fishing comp for under 14s everything was killed id 5 pike that day and this was organised by the angling club.

I agree sickpuppy, but within reason. The problem is enforcement. There is no enforement as it is at the moment. I agree with you in principle but am not sure how you could regulate it. The people who are taking pike generally are not interested in the size of the fish and will take them no matter what size they are. I have been pike fishing here for 7 years now and have never once had anyone check to see what i'd caught, whether I had kept any or if I was using live baits (which I dont). In order to inforce the rules, there would have to be a concerted effort by the fisheries boards to manage the waters, unless we go down the UK route and have waters managed by angling clubs, but that means licences probably.

sickpuppy wrote: »

Peopel advocating kill them all have smaller brains than the fish.

I say nothing :D
Duzzie

sickpuppy

YES KILL THEM ALL

Well licenses caused huge problems in the 80s here rod licence that is,
and to this day there is still anger and resentment in mostly trout fisheries ie some guys went out fishing others didnt and the fishers became knows as scabs etc.
Are you non irish? not that it matters but in over 20 years ive only once seen abaliff and that was in a know salmon area which has since been dredged and is now as useless as tits on a bull.

Duzzie

sickpuppy wrote: »

Well licenses caused huge problems in the 80s here rod licence that is,
and to this day there is still anger and resentment in mostly trout fisheries ie some guys went out fishing others didnt and the fishers became knows as scabs etc.
Are you non irish? not that it matters but in over 20 years ive only once seen abaliff and that was in a know salmon area which has since been dredged and is now as useless as tits on a bull.

I heard about the licence issue in the 80s, but do not know the context of their introduction. Personally, given the current situation with ppl taking lots of fish, I would prefer to have a licence and fish than no licence and no fish. You are right, I am not Irish. I'm Canadian but have travelled throughout the world, including living in the UK. Ireland has a great natural resource with huge tourism potential in fishing, however, it does need to be protected. Loose the fish and it'll be years before it builds back up. That would be a major shame. The current level of fish taking is not sustainable.

Duzzie

adonis

@ starn - ur logic is ridiculous - trout are cannibalistic, would you advocate removing them from our rivers / lakes?

@ everyone else that isnt trolling -
i think the odd killing of one pike isnt going to harm the ecosystem at all. As sick puppy said the suck is full of pike, sometimes i wonder what the hell they eat, they must be eating each other. i wouldnt see a problem taking the odd one out of there at all...but the widespread organised massacre as advocated by fisheries boards on places like Mask/Ennel/Oughel doesnt really halp anyone's cause. Including the respectability of the fisheries board (which is meant to encompass all types of fishing and not just game)

keen

No pike killing I say.

coolwings

keen wrote: »

No pike killing I say.

Why do you say that?

I agree with you where the fishery is a pike fishery, and looking after the pike makes the fishing better.
BUT
What about pike in fisheries managed for other possible endangered native species ... eg char?
What about pike in lakes managed as put and take where the managed species is not pike ... eg trout or carp?
What about lakes where the pike spawning areas are extensive, and the pike are too numerous for the food available, and their growth is stunted?

These three examples are situations where fewer pike makes the fishing better!

You are expressing an inflexible rule of fishery management, and it does not fit the reality of different fisheries.

adonis

coolwings,
if there isnt enough food for pike they will die and the ecosystem will achieve a natural balance..what about an over abundance of a certain species (trout) and no trout fry/perch fry can survive
also what gives the fisheries the right to remove pike from lakes so that one type of fish can be more prevalent? the idea that fly fishing is for some reason deemed more important than pike fishing is ridiculous... the thought of the fisheries board removing 40lb pike from lough mask and killing them is beyond words..
Mask/Corrib/Ennel/Oughel/Derravaragh have always been good pike/trout lakes prior to management, why now would it be deemed neccessary to start removing pike from those lakes?

I have never known pike to eat carp/tench btw - plus i have never seen pike in any of the managed carp waters (considering all of them are)

coolwings

Generally I am in agreement ... Just a couple of comments ..

adonis wrote: »

... if there isnt enough food for pike they will die and the ecosystem will achieve a natural balance..

No they won't die, that would be an extreme situation, and this is a question of degree only. They will achieve a new natural balance... but the natural balance will be one where the pike are smaller. Many smaller lakes confirm this.

adonis wrote: »

... if what about an over abundance of a certain species (trout) and no trout fry/perch fry can survive

Yeeesss. .... However it also depends on what other food is available. They go for the easiest food to catch (including fry)whatever that is, not straight for the small fry.

adonis wrote: »

...what gives the fisheries the right to remove pike from lakes so that one type of fish can be more prevalent?

I was thinking the owner of the fishery should decide.

adonis wrote: »

...the idea that fly fishing is for some reason deemed more important than pike fishing is ridiculous...

I didn't mention fly fishing. (I'm a pike angler, that also fishes for trout.) Why place one type of fishing above another? It doesn't make sense. But I think you might be saying the same as me there...

adonis wrote: »

... i have never seen pike in any of the managed carp waters (considering all of them are)

If I owned a managed fishery and it wasn't managed for pike, I'd want them out ... wouldn't you? (NOTE I am NOT talking about large mixed fisheries here, more the little put n takes, trout, carp, orfe, koi carp, rudd, etc.)

adonis wrote: »

...the thought of the fisheries board removing 40lb pike from lough mask and killing them is beyond words.....

I agree entirely. IF THEY MUST reduce total pike biomass, they should concentrate on middle size pikes size band, eg 5 - 10 lbs only, that way the small pike stock remain to keep perch fry in check, and also provide some large pike which escape (the system) and can achieve large size.

adonis wrote: »

...Mask/Corrib/Ennel/Oughel/Derravaragh have always been good pike/trout lakes prior to management, why now would it be deemed neccessary to start removing pike from those lakes?

It is not necessary IMHO.
Maybe if small trout are badly understocked and must get extra protection "to bring a lake back from the brink". Does that remind you of Ennell, Derravaragh or Sheelin maybe? (unfortunately)

But if selective size culling replaced the indiscriminate culling, I think both types of fishing would improve, at the expense of perch, and maybe roach too, because after all both trout and pike eat smaller fish, and hunt fish shoals.

One of the biggest problems is anglers who kill the big trophy fish (trout, pike, esp)and by killing the fastest growing fish reduce the genetic strain, and fill the place with slow growing stocks.
This probably accounts for a large portion of the decline of fishing in Ireland if only we could prove it.

We CAN look at the 1lb dwarf salmon running our rivers as a result of 98% kill rates (of bigger salmon) by drift nets for the last 30 years.
That is genetic selection at work, and will now take time to fix.

This country's anglers need to start looking after their big fish a lot more IMHO.

adonis

i pretty much think we are in agreement barring a couple of points

1 .the death of sheelin had nothing to do with pike, it was local farmers with run off of effluent as far as i recall

2. If its a created fishery you can pretty much do what u want with it as far as im concerned, i dont go to pay fisheries.

3. Trout feed on fry in season and not neccessarily cos they are easiest, just they are in abundance (and arent all fry not small?)

i dunno about your 1lb salmon as far as i heard it was the best year ever for salmon of late...

i think that if a culling system is to be in place it needs to be holistic and not just a one year thing; where there is a plan for the lake and all "native" species are catered for, not one over the other

coolwings

adonis wrote: »

i pretty much think we are in agreement barring a couple of points

1 .the death of sheelin had nothing to do with pike, it was local farmers with run off of effluent as far as i recall

Yeah. The whole region used to stink of slurry. Then the lake went green. Then the plants died for lack of light. Then the mayfly hatches disappeared. Roach got in and exploded, taking the remaining trout downstairs for feeding, instead of on the surface. Then the midges which were pollution tolerant multiplied, and the fishing went into night-time.
Pick a cause, any cause, all of them ......

adonis wrote: »

i dont go to pay fisheries.

Funny enough I do a bit. I used to fish for salmon, but now I take a part of that time and fish for big rainbows. Totally different, but it gets a fast and heavy fish on the line ....

adonis wrote: »

i dunno about your 1lb salmon as far as i heard it was the best year ever for salmon of late...

Best in several years they say. But if you know what it should be (used to be) like - it's still third rate. Second rate in the top 2 or 3 places for the top period, third rate even there rest of season.

adonis wrote: »

i think that if a culling system is to be in place it needs to be holistic and not just a one year thing; where there is a plan for the lake and all "native" species are catered for, not one over the other

Totally. The lessons have been learned in Canada, and the wild fisheries of the US, Europe too. Compulsory kill of certain size, compulsory return of certain other size, return all of protected species, remove all of unwanted species, maintainence of optimum forage species, it's all been worked out somewhere.
We should be able to do it here, but we don't have the willpower.
Thank heaven that the EU is beginning to impose fines on us for acting like eco gurriers in our own country, or nothing would be happening.
Shame on Irish governments (and anglers) for presiding over such a shambles.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

starn wrote: »

Pike are Scum, they eat there own. Kill em all I say

you obvously havnt a clue about fishing

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

coolwings wrote: »

Why do you say that?

I agree with you where the fishery is a pike fishery, and looking after the pike makes the fishing better.
BUT
What about pike in fisheries managed for other possible endangered native species ... eg char?.

pike are also native species in those lakes. If there is a small number of char in the lake, then char will only be tiny part of the pike's diet, so killing pike would do very little to increase the char numbers. If a load of pike were killed in that lake, then there would be a major increase of bait fish and smaller pike in the lake. nature always creates a natural balance, this balance only gets messed up when people start killing fish (not just pike).

coolwings wrote: »

What about pike in lakes managed as put and take where the managed species is not pike ... eg trout or carp?.

carp shouldnt be put into a lake that has a big head of pike anway, its a waste of money. I always laugh at people who blame pike for the lack of trout in some rivers and lakes. Pike and trout have lived for thousands of years side by side in these lakes and rivers. there are less trout in there because ANGLERS kill and eat the trout. with managed trout fisheries, loads of trout are introduced every year aneway, a better way to keep the numbers up is reduce the bag limit of trout per day.

coolwings wrote: »

What about lakes where the pike spawning areas are extensive, and the pike are too numerous for the food available, and their growth is stunted?

Maby in that situation, but i would rather move the pike into a different river/lake than kill them.

i fish mainly in the suck valley in roscommon, 99.9% fisheries here are not managed. There is an excelent balance between pike and course fish, very little trout as only the upper parts of the suck have trout. all fisheries will find their own natural balance.

i am a course and pike angler, if i had to chose one, i wouldn't know which one i would pick.

thats my opinion anway!

coolwings

Nathaniel Ugly Self-discipline wrote: »

pike are also native species in those lakes. If there is a small number of char in the lake, then char will only be tiny part of the pike's diet, so killing pike would do very little to increase the char numbers.

Generally through the year the char will be deep, and the pike will be shallow .. feeding mainly on perch, their main forage species.

But during the char spawning time they enter the shallows and some pike migrate to these small areas to feed on spawning char.
Although I am generally against removal I would accept totally that there is an excellent justification for culling, taking and removing pike from specifically these limited areas during these couple of weeks to reduce predation while the char spawn is on.

Nathaniel Ugly Self-discipline wrote: »

Maby in that situation, but i would rather move the pike into a different river/lake than kill them.

Absolutely. there are many pike waters where the pike spawning areas are limited, or the angler catch/kill is too high. These particular waters are crying out for these fish to be stocked in them.
(Note: This is not suggesting pike be stocked everywhere just because the anglers can't catch them!)

Of course the older fish of all species die of old age .. then they also enter the food chain and get eaten by pike, ferox trout and crayfish. That is desirable and diverts predation away from the live fish stocks in a lake. Anglers tend to forget that a 10 year lifespan means that every year 10% of the original year class of every fish dies and becomes food.

So reading reports of a roach, trout, or whatever inside a killed pike's stomach does not necessarily mean that it was alive when eaten. (Trout anglers please note!)

Kess73

Personally I don't kill pike, and would not like to see any killed unless there were exceptional reasons for it.

In fisheries, I would agree with a catch and relocate policy, but defo not a catch and kill policy that simple has the fish caught and left in a bin somewhere.

I don't really have a problem with the taking of an odd pike now and then for consumption, as long as it was not a huge scale with pike of all sizes being taken.

I have a big problem with large pike being killed, as they are what helps keep the population of smaller pike in check.

I always get a kick out of watching a released pike swim away, and I always live in the hope that years later, some jack I release will be on the end of my line as a 30+ pounder

bernard0368

I dont think we should not kill any fish, I accept that people like to take one for the pot. For anglers to take fish left and right is just wrong. It has the possibility to ruin the waters for everyone in the future.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

sickpuppy wrote: »

Pike are very abundant in my local river the river suck.
Two miles away there is a small trout river which is riddled with them if you were spinning you could catch 5 or 6 in a 4or500meter stretch.

what part of the suck are you on? its my local river!

sickpuppy

YES KILL THEM ALL

Hi Frank Ballinasloe the river is 200metres from the house.
And you saying theres no trout in it?
Not huge numbers but id consider Ballinasloe the lower suckand theres alovely strech from the railway bridge up river where the water is no more than 5feet deep and in may fly season plenty of trout.
Not much cover that way so hard to catch i caught 4and ahalf pound fish there afew years ago while pike fishing it was full of minnows and a7inch roach.
Do you recommend the Ballyforan area for big ones?

bobnalong

starn wrote: »

Pike are Scum, they eat there own. Kill em all I say

:eek: