Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
What's the point of this forum?
Options
Comments
-
I seem to have forgotten to mention arrogance in my OP.It is an island of reason in a sea of nonsense
People are bombarded from all sides with wacky and illogical arguments about theism. For example, a "loving" Creator who occasionally genocides civilizations.
This forum is a balance to the madness.
Rejecting God (your Creator) is actually the real madness.0 -
There is only one valid religion which is Christianity. Everything else is a lie. But it takes faith to see this and faith is a grace given by God to those who sincerely seek *His* (not our) truth. God's truth is absoulute truth and conflicting teachings among different religions show that most of us have got it wrong.SubjectSean wrote: »I would like to know what you think are the valid religions Kelly. Clearly Atheism isn't one of them though.0 -
There is only one valid religion which is Christianity. Everything else is a lie. But it takes faith to see this and faith is a grace given by God to those who sincerely seek *His* (not our) truth. God's truth is absoulute truth and conflicting teachings among different religions show that most of us have got it wrong.
How can you expect others to assent to this position if god hasn't let us see this?
Like, how can you expect people to behave in a manner that your god won't let them? Isn't that sorta like telling the tides to turn around?0 -
No I suppose not. Only God's grace can give us faith. My hope is that my rational arguments combined with God's grace will bring atheists back to God who is their source and destiny.suppose these are the reasons why the forum exists, which i don't accept for a second, what's wrong with it? if enough people enjoy patting each other on the back to warrant a special section in ireland's largest message board why bother saying anything?
do you really think a "stupid religious person" (your words, not mine) could convince people as prejudiced as the people you describe in your post?0 -
You have rejected God and God respects your free will. Have you honestly sought God? Have you prayed for faith? Have you stamped out any feelings that God might exist, any inner subtle callings? Do you come to this forum to find support in your belief that God doesn't exist? Do you have *any* doubts about the non-existence of God and if so are you afraid to say so for fear of ridicule?Fallen Seraph wrote: »How can you expect others to assent to this position if god hasn't let us see this?
Like, how can you expect people to behave in a manner that your god won't let them? Isn't that sorta like telling the tides to turn around?
God bless,
Noel.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
You have rejected God and God respects your free will. Have you honestly sought God? Have you prayed for faith? Have you stamped out any feelings that God might exist, any inner subtle callings? Do you come to this forum to find support in your belief that God doesn't exist? Do you have *any* doubts about the non-existence of God and if so are you afraid to say so for fear of ridicule?
You have rejected Zeus and Zeus respects your free will. Have you honestly sought Zeus? Have you prayed for faith in Zeus? Have you stamped out any feelings that Zeus might exist, any inner subtle callings? Do you come to this forum to find support in your belief that Zeus doesn't exist? Do you have *any* doubts about the non-existence of Zeus and if so are you afraid to say so for fear of ridicule?
My point is that you seem to have a rather small idea of the thoughts and thinkings of others. Maybe it isn't so obvious that your Yahweh is the one and only true god. It simply isn't possible to apply the criteria that you wish applied to your god to all the other world religions. There isn't enough time. Indeed, I'd hazard the guess that you've not applied the same criteria to Zeus and Thor and Buddha because you know you're right. How convenient.0 -
-
Then I assume you have posted a similar question to your OP in the Islam, Paganism, and Buddhism? Or are we first in line for the truth?There is only one valid religion which is Christianity. Everything else is a lie.
Kelly, many of us are ex-Catholics. I had 12 great years of catholic schooling. We're all old enough now to have a valid belief. Catholicism works for you, but is simply not an option to someone who does not believe in the existence of a god.You have rejected God and God respects your free will. Have you honestly sought God? Have you prayed for faith? Have you stamped out any feelings that God might exist, any inner subtle callings?
Maybe people do come here to find support for their non-belief. Thanks in no small part to religious people with an attitude like yours, it's usually frowned upon to have the audacity to not believe in God in polite society. Maybe this forum is the catacombs for non-believers.Do you come to this forum to find support in your belief that God doesn't exist? Do you have *any* doubts about the non-existence of God and if so are you afraid to say so for fear of ridicule?0 -
You have rejected God and God respects your free will. Have you honestly sought God? Have you prayed for faith? Have you stamped out any feelings that God might exist, any inner subtle callings? Do you come to this forum to find support in your belief that God doesn't exist? Do you have *any* doubts about the non-existence of God and if so are you afraid to say so for fear of ridicule?
I never realised how incomprehensible you must find non-belief until this post.
You have a lot of "inner subtle callings" I suppose, and so you attribute them to your god.
People choose not to believe or worship your god because they choose to, not because of "fear of ridicule" or because they're secretly denying something inside. Personally I would feel that you're the more unhappy one here, tbh.
And we don't ridicule people for believing in god, we ridicule their arguments when they insist the rest of us should too.
heh, I would liketo see how long he lasts telling the Islam forum they're all living a liedades wrote:Then I assume you have posted a similar question to your OP in the Islam, Paganism, and Buddhism?0 -
Advertisement
-
Love the sig man
It's almost like Noel is a parody of himself. I quite like this forum and it's pretty popular. Asking what's the point of it seems to stem from you not liking the subject matter (Atheism), that's not really 'on'. It'd be like me starting a similar thread in Body Modification since I don't think much of tattoo's!0 -
Can i be so bold to say that all Strong christian believers (kelly1) have suffered some serious psychological trauma in their early life to create such an irrational fixation to their religious beliefs at a level to which they cant even make proper arguements for their acusations. Sometimes it is comforting to be irrational i suppose.....0
-
90% of schools are church run, reason enough to agitate via atheist boards...0
-
You can be so bold as to say it - but don't expect anyone to agree with you.Can i be so bold to say that all Strong christian believers (kelly1) have suffered some serious psychological trauma in their early life to create such an irrational fixation to their religious beliefs at a level to which they cant even make proper arguements for their acusations. Sometimes it is comforting to be irrational i suppose.....
That is a huge assumption and not one I'd expect most people here would subscribe to.
In fact it's posts like that, that prompt believers like Kelly to post what he did.0 -
I suspect that he posted here first for the very reason that atheists are allowed openly question the Christian faith in the Christian forum, which is to the credit of both forums. As for the Buddhism forum well thats pretty much a spiritual brother to this one since most people there seem to have a atheist (and to a lesser degree agnostic) viewpoint.Then I assume you have posted a similar question to your OP in the Islam, Paganism, and Buddhism? Or are we first in line for the truth?0 -
Dear kelly1,I have a suggestion:People, I ask you, what is the point of the A&A forum?
- go and read the start of the sticky Charter thread on the Christianity forum.
- imagine what would happen if I started a thread in the Christianity forum named "What is the point of this forum?", and listed what I thought was wrong with it
- ask yourself: why do you think it's acceptable to say what you're saying, in this forum?
- ask yourself: why is this thread still open?
Bonus assignment: search the Christianity forum for threads where Atheists have barged in and told you "you're wrong", and compare the numbers to the threads in this forum, telling us "we're wrong".0 -
Religion is undeniably important. Not only can it impact dramatically on the lives of individuals, it has incalculable implications for almost every human institution ... family, education, politics, business, social policy, societal structures, military, science, medicine etc etc.
It is also intrinsically questionable and its implications arguably range from positive through harmless to devastatingly negative. A substantial number of people believe it to be one of the great follies of humankind and are interested in discussing the reasons it maintains its central role in individual life and in society. There are innumerable interesting discussions to be had about belief and non-belief, their implications and import for the present and the future. It almost beggars belief that you would not see why people would want to have these discussions, unless you feel that anyone who doesn't share your world view should just shut up and go away.0 -
Dades wrote:Then I assume you have posted a similar question to your OP in the Islam, Paganism, and Buddhism? Or are we first in line for the truth?
Well at least they believe in something? They only need realignment to the true god. Reminds me of Ann Coulters comments on perfecting Jews...I never realised how incomprehensible you must find non-belief until this post.
Thats a very good point and may provide some rationale for Wicknights banning next door.
Noel, do you think people question the existence of gods simply to be impetulant? Do you think we secretly all know Yahweh really exists and we're just being silly cos we're such smug assholes?0 -
-
^^ What Myksyk said ^^Religion is undeniably important. Not only can it impact dramatically on the lives of individuals, it has incalculable implications for almost every human institution ... family, education, politics, business, social policy, societal structures, military, science, medicine etc etc.
It is also intrinsically questionable and its implications arguably range from positive through harmless to devastatingly negative. A substantial number of people believe it to be one of the great follies of humankind and are interested in discussing the reasons it maintains its central role in individual life and in society. There are innumerable interesting discussions to be had about belief and non-belief, their implications and import for the present and the future. It almost beggars belief that you would not see why people would want to have these discussions, unless you feel that anyone who doesn't share your world view should just shut up and go away.
The real answer to the OPs question - excellently put!
Kelly, if you only answer one more post in this thread, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.0 -
Advertisement
-
I think that's probably it. For me, I just like having a place where ideas can be explored that doesn't have an agenda set by a particular faith. The Christianity forum is very open to discussion, but at the end of the day debate there must of necessity centre around Christianity.Perhaps it's simply somewhere where people with a similar cosmological viewpoint can discuss anything they like without having to cater overmuch to the sensibilities of those who consider that viewpoint utterly invalid as well as incomprehensible.
Aww, I wanted his rational argument for God.
^^ What Myksyk said ^^Myksyk wrote:Religion is undeniably important. Not only can it impact dramatically on the lives of individuals, it has incalculable implications for almost every human institution ... family, education, politics, business, social policy, societal structures, military, science, medicine etc etc.
It is also intrinsically questionable and its implications arguably range from positive through harmless to devastatingly negative. A substantial number of people believe it to be one of the great follies of humankind and are interested in discussing the reasons it maintains its central role in individual life and in society. There are innumerable interesting discussions to be had about belief and non-belief, their implications and import for the present and the future. It almost beggars belief that you would not see why people would want to have these discussions, unless you feel that anyone who doesn't share your world view should just shut up and go away.
The real answer to the OPs question - excellently put!
Kelly, if you only answer one more post in this thread, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.0 -
Hello, I can understand why people react negatively at the mention of the word religion. We all know that countless wars have been fought in the name of God (much to God's despair I'm sure). But you can't tar every religion with the same brush. Think of the secular good that has come out of Christianity, the art, the culture, charitable organization helping million of poor people around the world. That's quite different from the bombing of the WTC.It is also intrinsically questionable and its implications arguably range from positive through harmless to devastatingly negative. A substantial number of people believe it to be one of the great follies of humankind and are interested in discussing the reasons it maintains its central role in individual life and in society.
The message of Jesus Christ is about love and peace. People going about blowing themselves up in crowded places has nothing to do with true religion. I'm ashamed to admit that my own Church has been responsible for much violence during the crusades and inquisition etc. There was some justification in the Church's defence of Christendom against Muslim invaders. Should they have sat back and allowed themselves to be conquered and their religion replaced with Islam?
Some just want to discuss religion/atheism non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of religion wiped of the face of the earth. These nihilists have no idea how much damage they're doing. There is no doubt that following the Christian religion brings about wonderful changes in a persons life. Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that Christ has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.There are innumerable interesting discussions to be had about belief and non-belief, their implications and import for the present and the future. It almost beggars belief that you would not see why people would want to have these discussions, unless you feel that anyone who doesn't share your world view should just shut up and go away.
Noel.0 -
It almost beggars belief that you would not see why people would want to have these discussions, unless you feel that anyone who doesn't share your world view should just shut up and go away.
We might be getting a bit deep here.
I think Kelly1 just wanted to insult us all in an indirect way.People, I ask you, what is the point of the A&A forum?
- To pour scorn on and poke fun at those who believe in a loving Creator?
- A place where smug people gather to clap each other on the back and wonder at the stupidity of believers while they sit back and marvel at their own superior intelligence?
- A place to discuss lack of belief in God (why bother)?
- To blame all religions including the valid ones for all the ills of the world?
- To build up one's cynicism to ever increasing heights?
- To banish all traces of God from the world?
Or is there something positive that I've failed to notice?
.. might be interpreted as ...People, I don't like Atheists.
You poke fun at theists.
You're all smug and conceited.
Your endevours are pointless.
Stop blaming religion for all the ills of the world.
You're all so cynical.
I think you want to banish God from the world.
In that case, my reply could be...
People, I don't like Christians.
You poke fun at atheists/
You're all smug and conceited.
Your endevours are pointless.
Start taking responsibility for all the grievances religion causes.
You're all so naive.
I think you want religion to take over the world.0 -
By the way Noel, I think you need to ligthen up a bit.0
-
The message of Jesus Christ is about love and peace. People going about blowing themselves up in crowded places has nothing to do with true religion. I'm ashamed to admit that my own Church has been responsible for much violence during the crusades and inquisition etc. There was some justification in the Church's defence of Christendom against Muslim invaders. Should they have sat back and allowed themselves to be conquered and their religion replaced with Islam?
I think Jesus himself was actually quite specific himself with regards to turning the other cheek, and walking the extra mile, etc. Show me one incitement by Jesus for the overthrowing of the invading romans, and then you might have a point. But I think you'll find that the message of Jesus is nonviolent in the extreme.Some just want to discuss religion/atheism non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of religion wiped of the face of the earth. These nihilists have no idea how much damage they're doing. There is no doubt that following the Christian religion brings about wonderful changes in a persons life. Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that Christ has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.
This, as with many other of your statements can be quite accurately turned around and have every mention of atheism replaced with a corresponding religious noun, and it rings just as true:
Some just want to discuss [their religion] non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of [any belief system that isn't their own] wiped of the face of the earth. These [people] have no idea how much damage they're doing. There is no doubt that following the [an alternative belief system] brings about wonderful changes in a persons life. Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that [an alternative belief system] has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.
You really need to get some perspective.
Atheists aren't perfect. But they're no more flawed than their religious counterparts.0 -
Some just want to discuss religion/atheism non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of religion wiped of the face of the earth.
I admit I would love to see religion vanish from the earth over the next few generations. That doesn't mean I want to see it forcibly taken, of course. I think religion is full of lies. Mistakes. Utter lunacy. To combat it, the best thing we can do is spread education about the natural world as much as we can. For the God of the Gaps is almost certainly the most popular God worshipped today.These nihilists have no idea how much damage they're doing.
You don't need to be a nihilist to want to see an end to religion.
What you need to get out of your head is the childish notion that religion is the source of all love and happiness in the world. It is not, and is often a source of unimaginable evil.
I would love to see a world filled with rainbows where we all stand around a tree holding hands and going "la la la la", and you don't need religion for that. All those happy tree people could be atheists.
Religion is not the source of morality.
Nor the source of happinees.
Nor empathy, nor forgiveness.There is no doubt that following the Christian religion brings about wonderful changes in a persons life.
There are many types of people and many types of Christianity. I have no doubt that some people have gotten far worse for joining many types of Christianty. Gay beaters in the US, paedophile priests in Ireland, anti-condom campaigners in Africa etc etc.Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that Christ has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.
The vast majority of converts have stories like "I was a drug addict and a prostitute and then I found God and now I'm not living on the street injecting cocaine into my eyes."
I have never, ever, ever heard a story like "I was a well adjusted atheist in a responsible job with an active social life, but then the joy of God filled my life and I realised I had been missing so much."
Convert stories are always about damaged people grasping at some structure in their lives. If you don't mind me asking Noel, what was your life like before you found God?0 -
Hello, I can understand why people react negatively at the mention of the word religion.
Sure not every religion has caused wars etc, I fully accept that.But you can't tar every religion with the same brush.
However my tar brush says that religions are pretty much interchangeable.
I don't see any reason why Christianity is any different to Scientology or Islam.
Isn't it also about him dying for original sin, and being the son of an all powerful all knowing god who will banish us to hell or rapture us into heaven?The message of Jesus Christ is about love and peace.
I have no problem with the Golden Rule as a good way to conduct ones affairs its the fairytale I take issue with.
I think some people would like to see an end to irrationality and superstition. Religion falls under that to a great degree, once again, nothing wrong with the golden rule just the fairytale bit.Some just want to discuss religion/atheism non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of religion wiped of the face of the earth. These nihilists have no idea how much damage they're doing. There is no doubt that following the Christian religion brings about wonderful changes in a persons life.Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that Christ has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.
I'm glad your faith makes you a happier person. I'm really truly happy for you. However do you expect Atheists to accept that the fuzzy feeling they may experience must be Jesus Christ? Can there be no other explanation?0 -
But you can't tar every religion with the same brush.
You don't seem to quite understand why someone would tar all religion with the same brush. All religions work in pretty much the same way, which is why they can all be tarred with the same brush.
You seem to be focusing more on the end result, rather than the process that creates the end result.
Its a bit like a bunch of Communists look at Stalin and going "Man, that is just terrible. I'm glad our Communist dictator is nothing like their Communist dictator"
The point that is lost on these two imaginary Communist is that it isn't having a bad Communist dictator that is the issue. Its have any Communist dictator.
Likewise, you seem to think that it is only fair that people criticize manipulative organized superstition (ie religion) if it is actually producing bad things that day.
What you don't seem to get is that simply being manipulative organized superstition is enough to warrant criticism , in the same way that Castro doesn't get off the hook for being a dictator just because he is opening a hospital today.
Religion is not simply bad when bad things are happening, it is bad all the time, in the same way a dictatorship is bad all the time, even when good things are being produced by it, because it is a bad principle to structure society around.The message of Jesus Christ is about love and peace.
The message of Jesus Christ was there is a god in the sky who considers all of humanity to be sinful and wicked. Because we are sinful and wicked when we die we go to a pretty bad place. The message of Jesus Christ was that to be granted eternal life and forgiveness for ones sinful nature they must give themselves over to the religion and follow the principles of the religions holy books.
This is pretty much the exact same message as any other religion by the way.
The whole "peace and love" thing is basically window dressing. Its saying that the God in the sky who considers you all sinful and wicked and who holds in his power the ability to grant you eternal life only if you worship him and join the religion, also wants you to be peaceful.
The "be peaceful" bit isn't the problem. If that was all Christianity was I would be a Christian.
The problem bit, and problem bit with all religion, is the "promise of eternal afterlife and forgiveness of all sins ONLY if you follow the religion" bit.There is no doubt that following the Christian religion brings about wonderful changes in a persons life. Do you really believe this is just down to will power. No way. I know from personal experience the power that Christ has to change lives for the better. I'm a far happier and peaceful person for it and my life is now full of purpose and meaning.
So does Scientology. And Islam. And every other religion in the world
I call it the John Travolta effect after reading an interview about how he explained that he knew Scientology worked
He was a struggling actor. He joined Scientology. He go his big break. It must have been the Scientology.
This effect is repeated across all religious faiths, a religion convinces someone that only good things can come from following it, a person tries it and because they really want the promise to be true, they associate any good fortune they experience with the original promise of the religion. This becomes a feedback loop that they use to justify faith in the religion itself.
This is simply how the human brain works. We search for patterns that please us in events that happen to us. We get hit by a bike, are late for work, meet our future wife on the train, and say that getting hit by the bike was fate.
These quirks of how our brains work have been manipulated by tricksters since time began. People like Derren Brown make livings out of it, but at least admit that it is all tricks.
The problem comes when people are manipulated in good faith. Religion is a particular bad example of this, because often the people doing the manipulating don't even realize they are doing it. L. Ron Hubbard knew that Scientology was nonsense, but I doubt the people in the Church recruiting today understand this. They are as manipulated as the people they are trying to manipulate. The most successful religions are the ones set up this way, because they garrentee a steady stream of new recruits to keep the religion alive. Christianity is no different. You genuinely seem to believe what you say, and as such when you entice people into your religion, into the manipulate, you do it good faith. But that doesn't stop it being any more of a manipulate than if Hubbard or Jesus themselves were doing it.0 -
Now there's an example of what irks me about certain atheists. Believing in God, to my mind anyway, is the rational think to do. It is the proper respone of a creature to his Creator.What you need to get out of your head is the childish notion that religion is the source of all love and happiness in the world.
It think it's plain to see from looking at the world around us that we just can't fix our own basic problems. The world is plagued with wars, murder, divorce, drugs, corruption etc, etc. The utopian ideal where man lives in peace with his fellow man will simply never happen because of our corrupt nature (original sin). Without God we will never be able to pull ourselves out of the mire and we're too proud to ask for His help.I would love to see a world filled with rainbows where we all stand around a tree holding hands and going "la la la la", and you don't need religion for that. All those happy tree people could be atheists.
How do you know?? You're an atheist!Religion is not the source of morality.
Nor the source of happinees.
Nor empathy, nor forgiveness.
There are many types of people and many types of Christianity. I have no doubt that some people have gotten far worse for joining many types of Christianty. Gay beaters in the US, paedophile priests in Ireland, anti-condom campaigners in Africa etc etc.
The point is that they couldn't break free of their circumstances until they turned to God!The vast majority of converts have stories like "I was a drug addict and a prostitute and then I found God and now I'm not living on the street injecting cocaine into my eyes."
Without going into too much detail, I had a difficult childhood in a broken home. This had a big negative knock-on effect which lead me down a path that very nearly destroyed my marriage and my life.If you don't mind me asking Noel, what was your life like before you found God?
I can honestly say that since my conversion in Lourdes 5 years ago I am a completely different person. I'm far, far happier that I was as is my marriage. There is a joy and a peace that comes from following Christ that really can't be explained. I now know, after years of searching, what our true purpose in life is. We were all created by God in order to be united with God in endless, ever-new bliss. I have at last the the Truth and believe me, I've searched.
And no, I'm not deluded and true religion is no panacea. It is the answer to every ill.0 -
Advertisement
-
Advertisement