What's the point of this forum?

kelly1

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Your making no friends in here theist with comments like that.

You make the word theist sound like an insult.

Scofflaw

kelly1 wrote: »

Now there's an example of what irks me about certain atheists.

Hmm. Zillah irks theist. Who knew?

kelly1 wrote: »

Believing in God, to my mind anyway, is the rational think to do. It is the proper respone of a creature to his Creator.

Fine example of begging the question - almost a textbook case. For those who like that kind of thing...

kelly1 wrote: »

It think it's plain to see from looking at the world around us that we just can't fix our own basic problems. The world is plagued with wars, murder, divorce, drugs, corruption etc, etc. The utopian ideal where man lives in peace with his fellow man will simply never happen because of our corrupt nature (original sin). Without God we will never be able to pull ourselves out of the mire and we're too proud to ask for His help.

How do you know?? You're an atheist!

There are many types of people and many types of Christianity. I have no doubt that some people have gotten far worse for joining many types of Christianty. Gay beaters in the US, paedophile priests in Ireland, anti-condom campaigners in Africa etc etc.

The point is that they couldn't break free of their circumstances until they turned to God!

Without going into too much detail, I had a difficult childhood in a broken home. This had a big negative knock-on effect which lead me down a path that very nearly destroyed my marriage and my life.

I can honestly say that since my conversion in Lourdes 5 years ago I am a completely different person. I'm far, far happier that I was as is my marriage. There is a joy and a peace that comes from following Christ that really can't be explained. I now know, after years of searching, what our true purpose in life is. We were all created by God in order to be united with God in endless, ever-new bliss. I have at last the the Truth and believe me, I've searched.

And no, I'm not deluded and true religion is no panacea. It is the answer to every ill.

10 points for the first correct definition of 'panacea'. For a bonus 5 points, the medical term actually appropriate is?

By the way, Dades, you might owe bogwalrus at least a small apology?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Schuhart

kelly1 wrote: »

There was some justification in the Church's defence of Christendom against Muslim invaders. Should they have sat back and allowed themselves to be conquered and their religion replaced with Islam?

I found this interesting, as Islam is pretty up-front about having a clear policy of meeting like with like. So, if an army turns up on your door intent obstructing the faith, you’ve next door to an obligation to fight. Christianity, on the other hand, seemed to start from the idea that you don’t meet violence with violence, but forgive your assailants and hope they see the error of their ways.

So, indeed, if true to their faith Christians should have met the Muslim invasion with pacifism. They didn’t, which presumably shows they were unwilling to trust to their God or the example of Jesus. A human reaction, but I’m surprised to see it justified the way you have.

kelly1 wrote: »

Some just want to discuss religion/atheism non-confrontationally but others want to see every vestige of religion wiped of the face of the earth.

People do indeed have different motivations in approaching religion. For my own part, I’m perfectly willing to believe that religion can do good things for people. I don’t even have a particular problem with Catholicism, and I even have a lot of regard for the writings of Teilhard de Chardin (who I know you regard as a heretic – but hopefully you’ll appreciate I don’t see the fact the man was a priest means his thoughts should not be allowed to stand on their merits). However, I simply don’t believe there is a God (or, at least, any God as depicted by any religion) and I’m equally interested in puzzling out the implications of that. Hence my posts here – as I find people rarely have that much interest in talking about this kind of stuff.

Zillah wrote: »

Religion is not the source of morality.

Just a quibble – I actually think it might be the source of morality (and I have been bracketing on about this in a thread below.

Zillah wrote: »

Nor the source of happiness. Nor empathy, nor forgiveness.

That, I feel, is a sound statement.

Wicknight wrote: »

John Travolta … was a struggling actor. He joined Scientology. He go his big break. It must have been the Scientology.

Of course, in his case, maybe it was.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Your making no friends in here theist with comments like that.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm very happy that Kelly1 expresses his thoughts as he feels them (and no I'm not being ironic).

Scofflaw

kelly1 wrote: »

You make the word theist sound like an insult.

Have a cookie. Not one of bluewolf's, unfortunately.

cordially,
Scofflaw

FruitLover

kelly1 wrote: »

There is only one valid religion which is Christianity. Everything else is a lie.

Here, this isn't the Humour forum...

kelly1 wrote: »

You make the word theist sound like an insult.

I believe I would feel mildly insulted if someone called me a theist. It's not quite a kick in the face, but it does insinuate a lack of clarity of thought.


[Just to stick to the topic, I don't personally see a huge point to this forum; I just spotted this thread on the front page. Hey, live and let live, eh? Just like Jesus!]

Schuhart

FruitLover wrote: »

I don't personally see a huge point to this forum;

But surely you must see there's nothing more important than everyone thinking exactly like we do.

PDN

kelly1 wrote: »

And no, I'm not deluded and true religion is no panacea. It is the answer to every ill.

I think that is destined to become one of my all-time favourite quotes. Thank you, Noel, for giving me such a good laugh at the end of a long day.

edit - I hadn't read the last page of posts - Scofflaw beat me to it

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

I think that is destined to become one of my all-time favourite quotes. Thank you, Noel, for giving me such a good laugh at the end of a long day.

edit - I hadn't read the last page of posts - Scofflaw beat me to it

On the other hand, you win 10 points!

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

Scofflaw wrote: »

On the other hand, you win 10 points!

cordially,
Scofflaw

Some consolation, I suppose. Does placebo get me the bonus?

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

Some consolation, I suppose. Does placebo get me the bonus?

And a cookie! It's a great phrase, though - you can really declaim it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

Scofflaw wrote: »

And a cookie! It's a great phrase, though - you can really declaim it.

Yes, I'm partial to declaiming.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

Yes, I'm partial to declaiming.

I am myself - it's the single greatest drawback of atheism.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Schuhart

kelly1 wrote: »

true religion is no panacea. It is the answer to every ill.

I think this actually works as a koan.

Yes, this time I am being ironic. However, I really do want him to say whatever is on his mind.

Scofflaw

Schuhart wrote: »

I think this actually works as a koan.

Yes, this time I am being ironic. However, I really do want him to say whatever is on his mind.

So do I - indeed, I admire kelly1's forthrightness. He's only saying what a lot are thinking, I suspect.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dades

Scofflaw wrote: »

By the way, Dades, you might owe bogwalrus at least a small apology?

Because his generalisation proved correct in Kelly1's case? If the truth be known I'd agree there's more than a grain of truth in the remark, it was just the totality of it and the parting comment that irked me.

Of course I didn't expect the OP to fall so neatly into the stereotype... last time I stick up for the 'opposition'.

Scofflaw

Dades wrote: »

Because his generalisation proved correct in Kelly1's case? If the truth be known I'd agree there's more than a grain of truth in the remark, it was just the totality of it and the parting comment that irked me.

Of course I didn't expect the OP to fall so neatly into the stereotype... last time I stick up for the 'opposition'.

To be honest, I suspect that the old saw "there's no zealot like a convert" is the case for many of the more vehement theists here.

To look at it more charitably, if your conversion to God had a dramatic and positive effect on your life, why wouldn't you want to share it? By way of comparison, though, I recently read a couple of short pieces by Marian Keyes on her conversion from alcoholism, which uses almost exactly the same language as most God-inspired conversions, but without any mention of God.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

Zillah wrote: »

The vast majority of converts have stories like "I was a drug addict and a prostitute and then I found God and now I'm not living on the street injecting cocaine into my eyes."

I have never, ever, ever heard a story like "I was a well adjusted atheist in a responsible job with an active social life, but then the joy of God filled my life and I realised I had been missing so much."

Convert stories are always about damaged people grasping at some structure in their lives. If you don't mind me asking Noel, what was your life like before you found God?

I just love being right. So much:

kelly1 wrote:

Without going into too much detail, I had a difficult childhood in a broken home. This had a big negative knock-on effect which lead me down a path that very nearly destroyed my marriage and my life.

And in regards to this:

The point is that they couldn't break free of their circumstances until they turned to God!

No Noel, quite frankly thats a load of crap. There are many many secular groups out there working very very hard to help bring all sorts of people back to a normal happy life. These groups help the homeless, drug addicts, prostitutes, those who suffered abuse etc, get their lives back on track by helping them break their addiction to drugs, finding them jobs and homes etc.

Frankly I think its nothing short of vile that a religious group would approach people in such positions and try to convert them while helping them. Its like having sex with a girl whos too drunk to say no.

Such people do not need belief in supernatural beings to help them. They need food, money, a home, counselling and drug therapy.

Krieg

estebancambias wrote: »

Eric Harris
Dylan Klebold
Eric-Pekka Auvinen
(All Atheist)

They are only three names, I could name more.

Thats a bit ignorant in fairness
How about -
- Isaac Asimov
- Marie Curie
- Thomas Edison
- Karl popper
- Seth Green
- Ian Mckellen
- Jack Nicholson
(All Atheist)

They are only 7 names, I could name a LOT more

Scofflaw

Zillah wrote: »

I just love being right. So much:

Such a stereotype.

God - better than living on the street injecting cocaine into your eyes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Also, in response to the OP, and by comparison to the identical thread in the Christianity forum - asking questions like kelly1 did generates a discussion here.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

Scofflaw wrote: »

Such a stereotype.

Most stereotypes exist because they're very true.

Go on, tell me you don't love when you're proven right?


Also, there was a lot more to that post that vanished for some reason when I posted it. The magic of editing!

estebancambias

Asbad wrote: »

Thats a bit ignorant in fairness
How about -
- Isaac Asimov
- Marie Curie
- Thomas Edison
- Karl popper
- Seth Green
- Ian Mckellen
- Jack Nicholson
(All Atheist)

They are only 7 names, I could name a LOT more

They were school shooters. My point was that they were Atheists, Now Atheism is not the reason they killed these people, but no more than Religion kills people. Both are as stupid as the other.

Dades

It's interesting that someone starts a thread asking is what the purpose of this forum, and people are still posting responses in the wee hours of the morning*. Good, though.

Maybe we need something else in our lives. Mass tomorrow, anyone?

* apart from Asiaprod who's just finished his morning yoga!

estebancambias

I would strongly support that.

AngryHippie

No, work tomorrow. God forgot that we'd get time and a half. He rests, I go to work and get payed 50% more because I miss mass, ah well.

I worship in private(hehe)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

lol

I was thinking what the hell to do tomorrow, and going to mass didn't even enter as a possibility.

I feel good about that.
Damn good.

estebancambias

Troll. Yes the moderator of their own forum can be a troll.

AngryHippie

HOw do you spell that noise all the sheep make ?


Is it baaaaaaaa,
even though it definitely starts with an m ?

or meeeaaaaahhhh

kelly1

Scofflaw wrote: »

10 points for the first correct definition of 'panacea'. For a bonus 5 points, the medical term actually appropriate is?

Alright, alright! Thanks Scofflaw. I think the word I was looking for was in fact "placebo"

kelly1

PDN wrote: »

I think that is destined to become one of my all-time favourite quotes. Thank you, Noel, for giving me such a good laugh at the end of a long day.

edit - I hadn't read the last page of posts - Scofflaw beat me to it

ha ha , yes I'm fallible, mea culpa...