What's the point of this forum?

Fallen Seraph

estebancambias wrote: »

Atheists have an agenda, if they did not they could simply say she's in a better place, or something along those lines. You know like a parent might do with Santa.

But they don't believe that? I don't understand how you could expect someone being disingenuous with you to be comforting?

You've made an analogy with santa. If someone started trying to comfort me in such a situation by telling me something I know that they don't believe, I'd feel pretty damn patronised, and not very consoled.

Why wouldn't it suffice for an atheist to say nothing about an afterlife to the relatives of the deceased? I would consider it extremely crass for an atheist to go up to the relatives of the deceased and start telling them that their child doesn't exist any more. It's comparable to what Phelps does (assuming the relatives are religious). But this isn't the only way an atheist can talk to the bereaved...

estebancambias

Ok you both sorted out the consoling part.

Afterlife...well I am Catholic, and a fundamental aspect of the religion is life after death, but more than that.

I believe in the afterlife because it is comforting

Also, I know and on behalf of my mother, I have communicated with a Ghost. As true as I write this message, about 8 years ago my sister and I were playing with wrestling figures in the small box room. Coming from the other room was a voice which said 'conor...and my sisters name. I am convinced it was my uncle...this was not a fabrication..we both remember this vividly.

condra

estebancambias wrote: »

what would you say to the parents? How can you comfort them?

There are plenty of things one can say to comfort someone who is grieving.

I don't believe an Atheist posesses this ability.

What can I say, you are 100% wrong.

You can crap on about how religion has prohibted your precious science

1 - You can crap on too, appearantly.
2 - Science is not just precious to atheists, it is precious to humanity.

but I'm sorry **** Science.

**** God, Jesus, Muhammed, the pope, the koran, the bible, all jews, and the virgin mary.

... oh and Mary Magdalen too, just for sport.

If Religion offers a person a 'comfort zone' through their life then Religion has served its purpose.

If religions only purpose was to comfort people, and it didn't violate peoples human rights, cause war and suffering etc etc, atheists would probably less of a problem with it.

Either way, if it comforts people, it doesn't make it true.

PS, you're irrational.

AngryHippie

womoma wrote: »

**** God, Jesus, Muhammed, the pope, the koran, the bible, all jews, and the virgin mary.

... oh and Mary Magdalen too, just for sport.
PS, you're irrational.

I hear that.

And on the whole bereavement thing, Any trained competent counsellor can perform exactly the same function, without having to invoke any deity or mumbo jumbo about the lord doing whatever or saying whatever. The only difference is they will charge you a modest tax deductable fee for the pleasure of your unburdening of sorrow.

Or booze, I find gettin drunk helps the process. and a hug

robindch

estebancambias wrote:

**** Science

If you can't find it within yourself to be thankful for what others have done for you, at least try to keep your vulgarity to yourself.

estebancambias

I insulted a practice. While I may have been in bad taste Womoma was putting out hate speach.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

**** santa clause, the easter bunny and An Dagda too.

AngryHippie

estebancambias wrote: »

I insulted a practice. While I may have been in bad taste Womoma was putting out hate speach.

I thought it was pretty funny, Science isn't really a practice, More like a logical system for understanding the complex world we live in.

Yeah that easter bunny is a c**t F**k him. Was that tooth fairy in there ? him too

2Scoops

estebancambias wrote: »

Can I just clear something up here...people seem to have this idea that I am some kind of Fundamentalist...wrong...I am nothing of the sort

You clearly believe/care/are passionate more than most in this country. From that perspective you are most definitely a fundamentalist. Perhaps 'extremist' is a better word.

estebancambias wrote:

Also, my dad said to me yesterday, after I had an argument I had with my sister. She said 'so much for you, who never goes to mass' I replied 'yeah but have you observed the world that surrounds you?'' My dad said good boy, which I immediately turned around and snapped at him. 'Good Boy'? I replied. What makes me a good boy? Because I recognise God had to be at work creating this place we live in makes me a good boy...

Not sure I really understand your point here, but go easy on your aul dad. All I can discern is your petulance to your father, in direct conflict with the 10 commandments, and the poorly thought-out pseudo-philosophical rubbish that I associate with teenage rebellion. Maybe you'll understand when you're older, eh sport?

estebancambias wrote:

Can I ask you something, if lets say you were at a funeral where a young person was killed tragically, for example they were killed beyond their control what would you say to the parents? How can you comfort them?

Can't you see that these are just platitudes? Would you be consoled by hearing the same thing from 50 different people if someone close to you died? Would you still be sad at the funeral? I'm betting you would.

estebancambias wrote:

Do you think I have not considered that perhaps there is no God? Actually from 13-16, I really did doubt.

What tipped the scales in favour of God? Its comfort value? Certainly not any evidence...

estebancambias wrote:

You can crap on about how religion has prohibted your precious science, but I'm sorry **** Science. This is not trolling, this is actually my real views.

Why should religion hinder science at all? What's in it for God or his followers? Why are these two in opposition? Seriously, I want to know.

estebancambias wrote:

My problem is with you is that you fail to realise that believing in something beyond what WE regard as normal is a wonderful part of humans.

Imagination is generally a good thing. Another wonderful part of humans is the ability to distinguish fact from fiction.

pH

estebancambias wrote: »

Can I ask you something, if lets say you were at a funeral where a young person was killed tragically, for example they were killed beyond their control what would you say to the parents? How can you comfort them? I don't believe an Atheist posesses this ability.

Well from my understanding of your twisted faith there's a very strong possibility that this young person is now suffering eternal torment in the fires of hell - unless something has changed dramatically - heaven isn't the only afterlife option available!

The atheist option that they've ceased to exist is possibly not comforting, but I certainly don't see how the strong possibility that your loved one has started their eternity of torture is any more comforting.

Let's face it by any most Christian standards the lifestyle of your average young person in Ireland would not meet Heaven's fairly strict entry requirements

Would you really would 'comfort' their parents by asking how good a Christian the deceased was and how they lived their life and honestly tell those grieving parents that they were in hell, if you think the answers merited it? Given your posts here I wouldn't put if past you but I'd like to hear it from the asses mouth so to speak.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, it was very comforting I'm sure to many mothers to know their dead children were languishing for eternity in limbo.

christians babies

AngryHippie

People have forgotten the days of fire and brimstone far too quickly imo, there was a time when the church used to scare the sh1t out of people who questioned them, They've turned into a bunch of pu****s and look where its gotten them. Bring back the inquisitions, that'll stop all this freedom of thought and speech nonsense, Get us all on back on the road to eternal hellfire, where we belong !!!!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the christians could learn alot from their muslim brothers about the proper way to spread a religion. Fear, torture and sheer brutal violence. Wins every time. us atheists,agnostics and our secular ways have pussified the great christian churches.. it's time to bring it all back.

estebancambias

AngryHippie wrote: »

People have forgotten the days of fire and brimstone far too quickly imo, there was a time when the church used to scare the sh1t out of people who questioned them, They've turned into a bunch of pu****s and look where its gotten them. Bring back the inquisitions, that'll stop all this freedom of thought and speech nonsense, Get us all on back on the road to eternal hellfire, where we belong !!!!!

Like how the Romans tried to stop freedom of speach?

AngryHippie

what was that then, cutting off of tongues, murder or incarceration ???

estebancambias

pH wrote: »

Well from my understanding of your twisted faith there's a very strong possibility that this young person is now suffering eternal torment in the fires of hell - unless something has changed dramatically - heaven isn't the only afterlife option available!.

What are you talking about?

estebancambias

AngryHippie wrote: »

what was that then, cutting off of tongues, murder or incarceration ???

All of the above.

AngryHippie

Old school. Thats what I'm talkin bout.
None of this talk about lovin each other and bein celibate in the same sentence.

pH

estebancambias wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Something too complicated for your brain to grasp obviously.

estebancambias

Come on now. Quite clearly I understood but you just seemed to be writing a fair bit of crap. The paragraph I quoted was you assuming I was a fundamentalist, who believes that everyone is evil or something like that.

Talon1977

At the risk of sounding as if I'm sermonizing, I'd like to respond to this...

Let's face it by any most Christian standards the lifestyle of your average young person in Ireland would not meet Heaven's fairly strict entry requirements

According to the Scriptures, which is the foundation for Christian belief the "entry requirements," as you say, is not dependent upon any sort of "lifestyle." The gift of eternal life is available to any who believe in Jesus Christ. Again, this is not any opinion of mine that I'm asserting dogmatically, but simply what the Scriptures say. Take it as you will.

Other than that, I agree with your point, that attending the funeral of someone who would be bound for eternal hell would not be a place for any real comfort.

SubjectSean

Mordeth wrote: »

the christians could learn alot from their muslim brothers about the proper way to spread a religion.

Not so sure about this. Send the friendly missionaries in first with the holy book and when everybody kneels down to pray rob 'em blind, it's defo the best method IMO, you can't make corpses chip into the collection plate

Mordeth wrote: »

Fear, torture and sheer brutal violence. Wins every time. us atheists,agnostics and our secular ways have pussified the great christian churches.. it's time to bring it all back.

The Christian Right in America have pre-empted you

AngryHippie

Well they have tried, but fortunately they started with the Arabs, And I'm glad to say, the good old arabs are havin none of it, And if the christian right in america does'nt chill the beans pretty soon, They're gonna end up gettin sh1t-canned by their own electorate. And fcuk the loss

DublinWriter

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

hehe, wonder how many different versions there are.

There are over 50 English versions of The Bible based on Tyndale's original 16th Century English translation.

Tyndale was burnt at the stake by Henry VIII for translating the Bible into a vernacular language, but after Henry VIII split with the Roman Church, he adopted Tyndale's bible.

Tyndale didn't have access to much of the original Hebrew texts and much of his bible is based on the latin translation of the original texts.

It gets even more confusing the further back in time you go. The First Council of Nicea in the 4th Century set about collating a standard Bible and left out various gospels, including those of Mary, Judas and Thomas.

condra

Werent there more? Philip? or is that the same as Thomas? God I'm such a bastard, I want to read these right now and I haven't even finished the bible (the version of the bible I have)

kelly1

Folks, sorry I wasted your time.

Scofflaw

kelly1 wrote: »

Folks, sorry I wasted your time.

Not a bit! There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

What made you change your mind?

cordially,
Scofflaw

kelly1

Scofflaw wrote: »

Not a bit! There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

What made you change your mind?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Unfortunately the thread has descended into chaos. My original idea was to try to point out that many atheists come across (to me at least) as arrogant and condescending towards believers.

They seem to think that science and reason are all that matter and will solve all our problems. It's very clear that the world is in a big mess and it will only be resolved by turning to God. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded.

That's my opinion anyway.

God bless,
Noel.

One Cold Hand

kelly1 wrote: »

They seem to think that science and reason are all that matter and will solve all our problems. It's very clear that the world is in a big mess and it will only be resolved by turning to God. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded.

That's my opinion anyway.

God bless,
Noel.

You seem to think that religion is all that matters and will solve our problems.
See what I'm saying?

But at least you've used the phase 'that's my opinion' instead of trying to claim the rest of it as fact!!!

Dades

kelly1 wrote: »

Folks, sorry I wasted your time.

At first I was going to object to this.

kelly1 wrote: »

It's very clear that the world is in a big mess and it will only be resolved by turning to God. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded.

Now I'm not going to.