How's this for discrimination......

Cocobells

The title of thread related to discrimination, you have no evidence to support this. disgraceful conduct i dare say.

Pythia

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/products_explained/credit_scoring.html

This mentions the electoral register as a reason.

parsi

eth0_ wrote: »

Before shooting your mouth off, perhaps you should contact the Irish Credit Bureau and ask for a copy of your credit rating..

Before shooting _your_ mouth off read Post 21 in which the Op says he has his credit record to hand _and_ he has requested further info from the credit agency.

seanabc

I don't know why she said that to you. I used to work in the same company (not currys, but a separate shop, they all use the same finance agreements/bank though) and I can tell you that the bank approved just as many non-nationals as it did Irish people. We were never told the reason (it's strictly between the customer and the bank) but after a while you start noticing that certain people don't ever seem to get approved, and I noticed that people who work for themselves were rarely approved.

What a shop assistant in Currys tells you about the credit policy of whatever lender they use is as valid as what some bloke in the pub tells you. Anyway, Currys are probably no different to any other shop in Ireland so if it was common knowledge on the shop floor that they practised discrimination against foreigners the word wouldn't be long spreading amongst their foreign national workforce.

ejmaztec

Loan companies are multi-national organisations, operating all over the world. They are only prejudiced against individuals who are considered to be bad credit risks. Pretend you're a loan company. Would you lend money to someone you don't know, without checking them out?

Not in the electoral register - might be a bogus identity

Has only lived at current address for 3 months - he's going to do a runner

Self-employed - might be in the construction industry - no income guaranteed.

etc etc etc

Someone should make a board-game!

I arrived here 20 years ago and needed to buy a washing machine. Couldn't believe it when I had to ask a cousin to be guarantor. My previous UK track-record was irrelevant

GP

Cocobells wrote: »

The title of thread related to discrimination, you have no evidence to support this. disgraceful conduct i dare say.

Being refused a loan because you are not on the Elcetoral Register sounds VERY discriminatory to me.

Gauge

Why don't you wait until you find out what the reason was, instead of believing the speculation of some random employee?

GP

ejmaztec wrote: »

Self-employed - might be in the construction industry - no income guaranteed.

I think this is the reason even though I;ve been here for 5.5 yrs, mortgage etc etc etc etc

GP

Gauge wrote: »

Why don't you wait until you find out what the reason was, instead of believing the speculation of some random employee?

The random employee was the head of the finance section. I can only go by what he said to me was the reason.

IF there is another reason I will cetainly take it on board but I am 100% sure it's not my credit rating or my ability to pay €78 / month and that's a fact.

GP

Pythia wrote: »

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/products_explained/credit_scoring.html

This mentions the electoral register as a reason.

Thanks. Which brings me back to my topic title.......

seanabc

GP wrote: »

Being refused a loan because you are not on the Elcetoral Register sounds VERY discriminatory to me.

I thought your point was that you were being discriminated against because as a foreign national you were not able to vote in Ireland and could not be included on the Electoral Register. This is not the case. If you are resident in Ireland you are eligible to vote in at least some elections. So whatever being refused a loan is, annoying, unfair etc, it's not discriminating against you because you're not from Ireland.

From CitizensInformation.ie:

"A new Electoral Register is compiled each year and is published on 1 November. Resident Irish citizens are entitled to vote at all elections and they are identified by the letter 'P' after their names on the register. Resident British citizens can vote in local, European and Dáil elections and are identified by the letter 'D'. Resident EU citizens can only vote in local and European elections and have a letter 'E' after their names. Those identified by the letter 'L' opposite their name (non-EU citizens) can only vote at local elections."

Pythia

Credit is all about discrimination though. I work in credit scoring. We look at things which can predict risk and assign scores to them. If you have too many negatives, you're not going to be approved. Non nationality would generally be proven to be a bad thing (in the statistical sense). It means, on average, you would be less likely to pay back your loan.

I know in the UK there's issues using nationality as a characteristic in a scorecard, but I don't think it's the case over here. Other things are married/single, male/female, no of dependants, employed/unemployed/self employed, and, of course, the time in job/address etc questions. We actually use the word discrimination (although not in the exact same sense) when building these scorecards.
So a non national single man, kids, unemployed, a few months at his address is much more risky than an Irish married woman, working at her job 10 years and living in her house for 5.

Of course things like religion, sexuality, race are not included and if it was one of these things, you would have been discriminated against.

At the end of the day, they want to make sure they get their money back, and if you're a non national who's not on the electoral register, it suggests you may not have been here that long, or don't intend to stay very long, thus making you riskier.

At the end of the day, the bank (finance company, etc) can decide who to lend their money to.

HTH

GP

seanabc wrote: »

it's not discriminating against you because you're not from Ireland.

My point had to do with the voter's register and it IS dscrimination. What if someone Non-Irish OR Irish wishes to NOT vote. Should this exclude them form being bale to buy a laptop ?

GP

Pythia wrote: »

At the end of the day, they want to make sure they get their money back, and if you're a non national who's not on the electoral register, it suggests you may not have been here that long, or don't intend to stay very long, thus making you riskier.

At the end of the day, the bank (finance company, etc) can decide who to lend their money to.

HTH

It's pretty easy for them to a) see when my bank account was opened (5 years ago) and b) see any other pertinent info regardnig my financial status. I don't buy this electoral register stuff.

In fact I'm thinking this was just a Dell Marketing excersise..

seanabc

My point had to do with the voter's register and it IS dscrimination. What if someone Non-Irish OR Irish wishes to NOT vote. Should this exclude them form being bale to buy a laptop ?

If you go into a place and ask for credit and they ask you for id, they're not discriminating against you by turning you down if you say you don't have it or don't want to show it to them.

Personally, I'm not on the electoral register and I was born and bred here. If I was turned down for credit because of that I might see it as a nuisance and I might even get registered but I wouldn't feel discriminated against.

It doesn't stop me from buying a laptop either, just from availing of that particular credit option.

eth0_

GP wrote: »

The random employee was the head of the finance section. I can only go by what he said to me was the reason.

IF there is another reason I will cetainly take it on board but I am 100% sure it's not my credit rating or my ability to pay €78 / month and that's a fact.

He won't have KNOWN. I would imagine he stupidly said something to get you off the phone when you complained after being told you were turned down for finance.

Dell use a third party for their finance agreements. The third party bank cannot disclose the reason you were refused to Dell, they can only say "yes" or "no".

Did you get any reply from the finance company yet?

faceman

GP, although it might seem like it, you havent been discriminated against personally. You were probably run through a scoring model and your credit report was cross referenced

As we dont know which company you are speaking of, its impossible to tell their methods. However the electoral register plays a bigger part in credit checking in the UK for non nationals. In Ireland its not as big a deal but it does help verify someone's address. Irish people dont need to be on the electoral register as generally someone in their family will be registered at an address and thats fine.

Your nationality is not used as a basis for scoring in ireland, and never will. Its illegal and rightly so. Its a bit of a grey area then to "prove" the credit worthiness of different nationalities in ireland but i wont go into it here. Any application forms that ask your nationality (where nationality is not relevent to provision of goods or services) should be flagged to the Equality authority.

You are entitled to ask for the reasons regarding your credit refusal but dont expect them to say, "you didnt pay a bill with ESB once" cos (a) they dont know that (or shouldnt know unless the debt was registered in court) and they wont say it anyway!

Scoring models are developed looking at demographic trends over time. E.g. a 21 year old, living at home, your current address, 5 years with his bank, no loans etc etc. Its not that you as an individual will screw them over, but history has told them that individuals in similar circumstances are a higher risk. Many are automated however it is illegal to refuse an application through an automated system, so your application was probably reviewed by a credit analyst before the final decision was made.

I think you mentioned that you requested your credit report from the ICB. If there are inaccuracies on it, then get it sorted.

Finally as someone else pointed out, avoid all HP agreements at all costs! Even those that are attractive may have dodgy t&c's in the small print.

hotshots85

ok gp so you say that because you got the reason that you were refused credit was that you are not on the voters reg and this is discrimination .
lets look at a few facts here .
1-- only living in ireland 5 years
2--- self employed [a taxi driver id guess now i might be way off there ] sorry if i am
3-- no credit history as to speak of
any one of these three points ive just made would cause a credit company to refuse an application and it has nothing to do with not being on the voters reg this excuse probably came from an overworked shop worker who had,nt a clue .i get the impression from your posts racial undertones that you feel its a race thing .well let me tell you something every day theres loads of people who are refused credit who have lived here all their lives .so my friend just get over it and in time you will be able to put yourself in as much hock as you like. then the credit companies will be beating a path to your door to give you money

GP

hotshots85 wrote: »

ok gp so you say that because you got the reason that you were refused credit was that you are not on the voters reg and this is discrimination .
lets look at a few facts here .
1-- only living in ireland 5 years
2--- self employed [a taxi driver id guess now i might be way off there ] sorry if i am
3-- no credit history as to speak of
any one of these three points ive just made would cause a credit company to refuse an application and it has nothing to do with not being on the voters reg this excuse probably came from an overworked shop worker who had,nt a clue .i get the impression from your posts racial undertones that you feel its a race thing .well let me tell you something every day theres loads of people who are refused credit who have lived here all their lives .so my friend just get over it and in time you will be able to put yourself in as much hock as you like. then the credit companies will be beating a path to your door to give you money

...you've made some amazing assumptions and by your nick I may make one which says you're not as hot as you think you are.

Maybe you should read some of my responses above to see that that I DO have a credit history etc etc etc. I'm not even going to bother answering this posting.

Taxi driver.......:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D talk about assumptions...........

Sam Vimes

GP wrote: »

My point had to do with the voter's register and it IS dscrimination. What if someone Non-Irish OR Irish wishes to NOT vote. Should this exclude them form being bale to buy a laptop ?

there are very specific things that are legally classed as discrimination and its illegal to judge based on there. Examples are sex, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation and a few more i can't think of. Judging based on being on the electoral register is not one of the things that is classed as discrimination

EKRIUQ

GP wrote: »

So as a self-employed person I decided to take an interest free offer from the biggest PC manufacturer in Ireland.

1 week went by without an answer. I finally called them and they told me I had been declined. By the way, we're talking about a sum of €78 / month.........

When I queried why, they said they are not told why but that the one reason may be that I am not on the Electoral Register! :eek:

Maybe you went guarantor for some body that didn't pay, and maybe you've got bad credit!!.

Before when I had to tell people they wern't passed for credit, I'd come up with something to ease the process and saying something like your not on the electorate list.

Once a woman was roaring and shouting and telling me all she owned was fully paid for, I told her it wasn't down to me to make the decision it was the finance company's and she contacted the finance company, turns out little Johnny never paid of his car loan that she went on guarantor for when he sold the car.:rolleyes:

hotshots85

GP wrote: »

...you've made some amazing assumptions and by your nick I may make one which says you're not as hot as you think you are.

Maybe you should read some of my responses above to see that that I DO have a credit history etc etc etc. I'm not even going to bother answering this posting.

Taxi driver.......:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D talk about assumptions...........

here i was trying to help with your problem and and give my oppinion on what i see as the situtation your in [which is my right to do in a discussion ] and you come back with i would regard as an insult .
id like to remind you that this is a discussion board and in a discussion there are two sides to every issue .now you might like the posts that say "oh you poor person that should,nt have happened " but as i posted already GET OVER IT you got refused credit and imo it had nothing to do with you not being on the voters register btw i love the bit where you said you were,nt going to reply to my post and then go off on one

Saruman

BendiBus wrote: »

If you're resident in the country you can still vote in Local Elections at least, so you should get yourself onto the electoral register.

Might be off topic but my wife is American, she is not an Irish citizen, yet she got her polling card etc and voted for FG because the girl (candidate) looked like her cousin

the register is a load of crap, she is on it because they called to our door and asked for the names of people in the house the year before. No id etc, just the names and she could vote

prodigal_son

I dont see how it is discrimination to be honest.

I have lived abroad, in France, and i was treated pretty poorly as an irish citizen. I worked for a company and never got paid because there was some loop hole in my contract that was in french.

The local government and pretty much everyone told me it was my own fault and could not help me.

I dont even think that was discrimination, It was just me getting the brunt end of a system i knew nothing about. I have seen the irish goverment go to bat for the rights of non nationals in Ireland, and having traveled a lot i think this is a pretty good country to be a non national.

The rule about being on the register probably applies to irish people and forgein people, we dont seem to have the same credit check systems that they have in place in the UK, so they simply try to narrow it down to people who are less likely to do a runner and leave the country.

When i was in the UK i had trouble over a few things because my irish bank account couldnt do direct debits the same way, almost ended up in court for a tv license thing. They were not specifically discriminating against me, its just the system they use.

Best thing to do, is just find out why it happened, try fix it, and try use the system to your advantage.

seanabc

I dont see how it is discrimination to be honest.

I have lived abroad, in France, and i was treated pretty poorly as an irish citizen. I worked for a company and never got paid because there was some loop hole in my contract that was in french.

The local government and pretty much everyone told me it was my own fault and could not help me.

I dont even think that was discrimination, It was just me getting the brunt end of a system i knew nothing about. I have seen the irish goverment go to bat for the rights of non nationals in Ireland, and having traveled a lot i think this is a pretty good country to be a non national.

The rule about being on the register probably applies to irish people and forgein people, we dont seem to have the same credit check systems that they have in place in the UK, so they simply try to narrow it down to people who are less likely to do a runner and leave the country.

When i was in the UK i had trouble over a few things because my irish bank account couldnt do direct debits the same way, almost ended up in court for a tv license thing. They were not specifically discriminating against me, its just the system they use.

Best thing to do, is just find out why it happened, try fix it, and try use the system to your advantage.

I'm sorry, but that sounds far too rational and sensible. We should have a big protest march instead and demand interest free store credit for whoever wants it. After all, who can't afford €78 per month?

SerialComplaint

BendiBus wrote: »

If you're resident in the country you can still vote in Local Elections at least, so you should get yourself onto the electoral register.

This applies to EU citizens only.

GP wrote: »

When I queried why, they said they are not told why but that the one reason may be that I am not on the Electoral Register! :eek:

I informed him that as a Non-National I am not allowed to Vote...his answer "oh, that's it then".

I have my own home, car, credit card paid off 100% every month. My food bill is probably 2.5 times that / month and yet I am decline for a sum that most people spend at the pub on a week-end night.

This country has a lot to learn still.

Contact the Equality Authority.

seanabc

If you're resident in the country you can still vote in Local Elections at least, so you should get yourself onto the electoral register.

This applies to EU citizens only.

It applies to anyone resident in the State.