Why I am sticking with Win XP

Pawwed Rig

Microsoft software really bugs me so in January I took the plunge and changed to Linux. I tried 4 or 5 versions but liked the look and feel of Ubuntu so went with that. And all I can say is that I am not surprised that most people don't switch over. The hassle of the whole thing was really off putting. If you're not a computer geek you have little chance of ever getting the thing going to a level that XP offers. I tried various forums etc for advice but when after 6 attempts at loading WINE I was still getting annoying error messages I had to give up. So back to annoying downloads I don't want. Back to XP.:(

ethernet

It's a pity you had a bad experience. It can't be denied that there is quite a learning curve involved in any new OS, especially if one is to make a drastic switch.

Wine is an amazing program but it doesn't work with every program. There's an extensive list of applications that do work on the Wine project's website.

Did you try the Ubuntu forums? Undoubtedly the most popular.

Red Alert

In a way the coupling of MacOSX and the WinNT OS'es to their GUI does mean that there's some basic degree of standardisation. I'm a CLI-freak by nature, both on Windows and unix, but basically Linux/UNIX is not ready for general (i.e. not cash registers, helpdesk apps etc) usage until you can control basically every option from a good control panel that's identical on different distros.

Snowbat

I'm also tempted to call troll

• Trollish subject line
• Anti-linux myth: Linux is only for geeks
• Anti-linux myth: Everyone will have the problems I had
• Anti-linux myth: I'm going back to Windows because it is (somehow) better
• User registered only a few days ago and this is the first post
• Google finds no requests for help by "Pawwed Rig" in any forum
• The stated problem is incredibly vague

Pawwed Rig, on the offchance you're not trolling or astroturfing for Monkeyboy and actually want help with this problem, please describe what you're trying to run in WINE and paste the error messages you're seeing, or link us to your posts on "various forums etc" where you've described your problem.

FruitLover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If you're not a computer geek you have little chance of ever getting the thing going to a level that XP offers.

The correct phrase is computer genius. Also, you gets what you pays for.

conor2007

ah now in fairness
linux cant be used by someone who is not computer savvy - thats not a myth
you will run into those problems is your not computer savvy

linux is better - but you do get what ya pay for (unless you work really really really hard)

Capt'n Midnight

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The hassle of the whole thing was really off putting. If you're not a computer geek you have little chance of ever getting the thing going to a level that XP offers. I tried various forums etc for advice but when after 6 attempts at loading WINE I was still getting annoying error messages I had to give up. So back to annoying downloads I don't want. Back to XP.:(

What problems were you having with what apps ?

Many windows programs were only designed to run on windows and in most cases the publishers don't offer any help assistance or information to people trying to run them on other OS's.

An alternative to running them on WINE you could search for an version written for Linux or look for a similar Linux app.

At present I'm setting up a windows 2000, it's got to run an old version of Access, OO Base won't do what's desired yet, a couple of OO releases and it probably will. The PC would run XP but it isn't worth upgrading the license. The applying of patches is taking ages and I've also to install a wadge of anti-malware stuff too, then I can start on things like OpenOffice and other apps that come preinstalled with ubuntu. I'd reckon it would take the same amount of time to setup a PC with ubuntu if I had to search for specific drivers / solutions for stuff that wasn't on the ubuntu default install. It will be a while yet before I get it up to where it has the same usability of booting from a Knoppix live CD.


What do you mean by the level XP offers ? It has no productivity software.
It's not even safe to use on a direct connection the internet unless you have SP2.
Because it's been around for 6 years and pre-installed on most new computers in that time, installing software is fairly easy and most games run on it.

If all you want to do is browse the internet or generic SOHO use without an accounts package ubuntu is fine. You might have to be careful when you choose your printer or scanner, but the money you'd save on a windows license would cover any extra cost there.

Pawwed Rig

If I knew what a trolling was.......
I never said Windows was better. The reason I wanted to change is a complete aversion to microsoft and all it stands for.
It wasn't what I was trying to run in WINE. I couldn't even get WINE to run which I am sure you agree is a fairly critical starting point.
I am not trying to get the problem solved here but was merely highlighting how un user friendly it is to get up and going. We use Unix based systems where I work so understand the file structure etc but who has the time to spend trawling through discussion boards for every little bit of programme you want to get working?

XP is extremely user friendly even if really annoying.

Pawwed Rig

Ok ok I withdraw the geek remark:D
True enough about getting what you pay for.....

Pawwed Rig

Ok I looked up troll and no I'm not trying to stir s**t. But have other people had similar experiences with Linux?

conor2007

yup
but thats cos i havent time yet to learn how to use it

im sure its great

PogMoThoin

Your just not dedicated enough

Well I've been usin it less than 2 months & finally got round to building my home server with:
# Shorewall firewall setup up for Internet connection sharing or network address translation (NAT),
# Squid Proxy server for caching of Internet content,
# BIND DNS server working hand-in-hand with Squid,
# Samba file server,
# LAMP Web server, used to run TorrentFlux, a Web-based Torrent client,
# SSH, allow you log in to your server in CLI over any network, while keeping everything encrypted and secure.

Used an old 3Ghz Pentium 4 Dell with 2Gb ram & hd's i had lying round

All up & running like a dream

Just gotta mount 2 more hd's & its ready to go in the attic. Can play lan games with kids now or stream my vids & music all over the house.

Good guide here

conor2007

no time

and i had an old amd athlon with win 95 on it


its ****e -

Snowbat

I've run into a few bugs over the years but almost all of them have been specific to my distro of choice - Mandriva. A Google search normally finds other users with the same problem and someone has already posted a workaround or a fix, or an updated package is already available in the repositories. I agree it is always a pain in the ass to run into a bug but since distro builders typically have only a small fraction of the QA budget of Microsoft and other big software houses, I guess the only solution for that is more testing and bug reporting by users like us when your favourite distro has a late beta or RC1 available and is preparing for their next release. The vast majority of my Linux use has been entirely bug-free.


@conor2007
Have you read the Linux Usability Study from Relevantive AG? It is from 2003 so does not take into account the usability improvements made since then but their findings will surprise you:
http://www.linux-usability.de/download/linux_usability_report_en.pdf

IDG analysis here:
http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83708,00.html

Linux, once viewed as an operating system that only computer geeks could appreciate, is today a much more user-friendly software that companies, public administrations and consumers can master almost as easily as Microsoft Corp.'s Windows XP. That's the core finding of a study published Aug. 1 by Relevantive AG, a Berlin-based company that specializes in consulting businesses on the usability of software and Web services.

Khannie

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Microsoft software really bugs me so in January I took the plunge and changed to Linux. I tried 4 or 5 versions but liked the look and feel of Ubuntu so went with that. And all I can say is that I am not surprised that most people don't switch over. The hassle of the whole thing was really off putting. If you're not a computer geek you have little chance of ever getting the thing going to a level that XP offers. I tried various forums etc for advice but when after 6 attempts at loading WINE I was still getting annoying error messages I had to give up. So back to annoying downloads I don't want. Back to XP.:(

This is pretty much my experience with Linux in a nutshell tbh. I think it's highly unlikely to be trolling.

Then I tried it again and things had improved.

and again...more improvement.

and so on...

Until one day, I used it as my primary operating system in work. I think this was a really smart move. I learned on my last company's time. Took the plunge at home (by removing windows). Never ever ever ever ever going back.

Pawwed Rig

Haha. I dunno if I'll be deleting XP but I might give Ubuntu another bash over the Christmas hols. Good call on using the companies time. Now why didn't I think of that....

Tobias Greeshman

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I tried various forums etc for advice but when after 6 attempts at loading WINE I was still getting annoying error messages I had to give up. So back to annoying downloads I don't want. Back to XP.:(

Well wine has always had problems, the current version is 0.9.49 and it's anything but perfect. There's always been a problem with programs that use ActiveX controls.

What program were you trying to run?

Tom Dunne

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Haha. I dunno if I'll be deleting XP but I might give Ubuntu another bash over the Christmas hols. Good call on using the companies time. Now why didn't I think of that....

What exactly are you trying to run on Linux?

In my house, Ubuntu has passed The Wife Test(tm) - my wife uses Ubuntu on the laptop all the time. But her computer usage is relatively straight forward - internet banking, shopping (God help me), Instant messaging and e-mail. She also uses Open Office on occasion.

I have repeatedly asked her if she wants me to switch the laptop back to Windows, she declined the offer.

It's all relative.

Linux is fine for basic computing needs as I have outlined above. For more advanced uses, there is a learning curve.

Give us an idea of what you are trying to do, complete with software titles and error messages and we will see what we can do.

conor2007

nm

matrim

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The applying of patches is taking ages and I've also to install a wadge of anti-malware stuff too, then I can start on things like OpenOffice and other apps that come preinstalled with ubuntu.

This is one of my biggest gripes about these Windows vs Linux threads. Someone always comes on and says how they have to install so many patches with a new install of a windows system.

I like linux and my home usage would be more than 50% linux, but my ubuntu install has to upgrade something every week. Yes, I know it is mostly apps and that that is made easier with the linux distribution system but I still have to upgrade them.
You also have the fact that I've installed about 5 months ago and now have an version update ready when I want to get around to it,. When MS release a service pack people go on no I have to update windows again, but when an upgraded distro is released it's look how good linux is giving me a new distro to use.

Also the apps that come preinstalled on linux, Most of them are good and alot of them can be gotten with windows (seperately), but there are also things preinstalled on windows that aren't on windows, e.g. MP3 support. And if it was MS including the apps in the install by default they would be sued for anti competitive practices

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm a fan a linux and not a MS fanboy. MS has alot of faults that people are well aware of, but the upgrading argument for switching to linux bugs me.

Khannie

matrim wrote: »

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm a fan a linux and not a MS fanboy. MS has alot of faults that people are well aware of, but the upgrading argument for switching to linux bugs me.

I think you made some fair points. I just disabled the automatic updates on my ubuntu install in work. I run the update manager about once a month or so and haven't upgraded the distro to the latest (it's not a pre-requisite for anything).

I run gentoo at home. I do a "world" update about once every 3 months or so and only to get enhanced functionality.

I think the popular belief with windows is that you're downloading fixes for security issues and with linux you're more often downloading enhanced functionality.

Pawwed Rig

One of my biggest beefs is you end up downloading stuff for both Windows and Linux that you don't need. XP at least lets you choose what you download whereas Ubuntu won't let you discard items you don't want and that is IF you can figure out what they actually are so much so that I've disabled all further updates.

TheBigLebowski

Just wondering, for all the Linux lovers out there, what do you find better about Linux than windows? What does it do that Windows can not do?

pid()

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Just wondering, for all the Linux lovers out there, what do you find better about Linux than windows? What does it do that Windows can not do?

It's free.
It runs so much better than windows does.
No spyware or viruses.
You can tweak it for whatever you want.
No reboots after application installs.
Fluxbox looks and feels better than windows ever could.

I really could go on all day.

Khannie

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Just wondering, for all the Linux lovers out there, what do you find better about Linux than windows? What does it do that Windows can not do?

The single biggest thing for me is that all of my software comes from a trusted source. When I install something, I'm absolutely certain that there are no viruses and no spyware and no malware coming with it. This is amazingly comforting.

As a result of this, I have no virus scanner, no firewall to speak of, no spyware scanner, etc. etc.

The other big thing is the speed that I achieve tasks. I'm just more productive on linux. There is a learning hump to overcome before you reach this point though.

Other reasons: I have 2G of ram installed, currently 5% of it is in use. I like that it's free. I like that I can change absolutely anything about it. The list goes on....

monkey tennis

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ubuntu won't let you discard items you don't want

That's a restriction of Ubuntu, not with Linux. Linux is not Ubuntu.

matrim wrote: »

my ubuntu install has to upgrade something every week. Yes, I know it is mostly apps and that that is made easier with the linux distribution system but I still have to upgrade them.

Says who? How many of these updates are critical? Not as many as the Windows updates, I'll bet.

monkey tennis

pid() wrote: »

It runs so much better than windows does.

Relative term (and vaguely expressed).

pid() wrote: »

You can tweak it for whatever you want.

Windows is more versatile that linux zealots give it credit for.

pid() wrote: »

No reboots after application installs.

Let's be realistic, you rarely have to reboot a modern Windows OS after an application install (despite what the application installer might tell you).

pid() wrote: »

Fluxbox looks and feels better than windows ever could.

There are plenty of visual enhancements available for Windows.

Tom Dunne

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Just wondering, for all the Linux lovers out there, what do you find better about Linux than windows? What does it do that Windows can not do?

For me, it's the security/manageability aspect of it.

Like Khannie, I don't need to have a virus scanner/firewall/spyware scanner installed. I don't need to worry about bogey attachments that people send me.

Because of this, the system appears to run a lot quicker (I'm running Ubuntu on an IBM Thinkpad with 512Mb of Ram).

matrim

monkey tennis wrote: »

Says who? How many of these updates are critical? Not as many as the Windows updates, I'll bet.

IIRC over the last month or so there were 2 or 3 critical patches. 1 was for the security issue with FLAC and I can't remember what the other ones were.

conor2007

it cant play mp3's - without downloading a codec

thats worse than windows - i want my windows 95 back!

ethernet

conor2007 wrote: »

it cant play mp3's - without downloading a codec

thats worse than windows - i want my windows 95 back!

[cough]

• Windows Media Centre: try watching TV without having installed extra codecs
• DVDs: try watching them without having installed a third-party program

conor2007

dont get me wrong

im only using xp cos its all i can use/afford - plus its a family computer

mac osx - now thats a beauty - no codecs - no third party (besides playing wmv)

nesf

If I wasn't a gamer I'd probably use Linux full time. If you play a lot of games and you have an XP licence I don't see why you wouldn't at least use it for gaming. It's just not worth the hassle imho of struggling to get a new game to run on linux when you get back home from the shop.

conor2007

or bypass both and use a mac

Capt'n Midnight

conor2007 wrote: »

or bypass both and use a mac

Don't use Linux, use BSD

Pawwed Rig

My post was about Ubuntu from the start

bushy...

What did you want to run under wine anyway out of interest?

Pawwed Rig

I couldn't even get WINE loaded so gave up on the whole project tbh

pickarooney

WINE has been part of the standard install of the last few Ubuntu releases. Maybe you couldn't install it because it was already there?

Otherwise 'sudo apt-get install wine' should sort you out.

I think I used wine once. Didn't see the point.

ntlbell

I'm not sure why you started this thread.

There is without a doubt a market for Microsoft OS's and you seem to be one of the people that it suits.

That's fine. Use whatever OS works for you, XP does so use it.

Pawwed Rig

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not sure why you started this thread.

There is without a doubt a market for Microsoft OS's and you seem to be one of the people that it suits.

That's fine. Use whatever OS works for you, XP does so use it.

I started this thread because this is a discussion forum.
Re using XP. If you had read any of my responses you would see that it doesn't suit me hence my reason for wanting to change.

bushy...

Try a few more , http://www.pcbsd.org/

ntlbell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I started this thread because this is a discussion forum.
Re using XP. If you had read any of my responses you would see that it doesn't suit me hence my reason for wanting to change.

Using a non microsoft OS can require two things the capability to read and think for yourself, a lot of people are not capable of this, so XP/Vista/OS X is the way to go for them.

I'm not sure if I read all your responses but apart from unwanted downloads you didn't specify what XP couldn't do that you require it to do.

nesf

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Re using XP. If you had read any of my responses you would see that it doesn't suit me hence my reason for wanting to change.

If you can't get WINE running and need to run a lot of Windows native apps then you mightn't have a choice tbh.

Khannie

ntlbell wrote: »

Using a non microsoft OS can require two things the capability to read and think for yourself, a lot of people are not capable of this, so XP/Vista/OS X is the way to go for them.

That's a nasty implication and OTT IMO. Using linux as your desktop OS requires more work than windows to make the initial switch. A lot of people who are used to windows are going to find this frustrating and may give up initially. There's no problem in that. In fact, I'd say it's natural.

Instead of telling them that they're incapable of thinking, a bit of support might go a long way.

ntlbell

Khannie wrote: »

That's a nasty implication and OTT IMO. Using linux as your desktop OS requires more work than windows to make the initial switch. A lot of people who are used to windows are going to find this frustrating and may give up initially. There's no problem in that. In fact, I'd say it's natural.

Instead of telling them that they're incapable of thinking, a bit of support might go a long way.

All the above is solved by the two things I mentioned above. Reading and thinking for yourself, which the OP thinks is OTT as he feels he shouldn't have to browse a forum to get the software to run.

If he is not willing to browse over some readme files or ubuntu forums or jump into an irc room, I don't see why he would read any support I offer here?

I'm lost on your logic.

Pawwed Rig

ntlbell wrote: »

Using a non microsoft OS can require two things the capability to read and think for yourself, a lot of people are not capable of this, so XP/Vista/OS X is the way to go for them.

I'm not sure if I read all your responses but apart from unwanted downloads you didn't specify what XP couldn't do that you require it to do.

Wow thank you. My first insult on this site.
I can do both I assure you.

ntlbell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Wow thank you. My first insult on this site.
I can do both I assure you.

You can take it up as an insult if that's what you wish to do.

Or you can recognize that perhaps you were a bit lazy, take what was said at face value, read a bit, get your wine working, and get away from a company that you despise.

No insult was intended.

Pawwed Rig

So I don't have the capability to read and think for myself and I am lazy??? If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread why bother? Over and out.

ntlbell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So I don't have the capability to read and think for myself and I am lazy??? If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread why bother? Over and out.

Well you keep proving in this thread you can't read. i said " a lot of people" i never said you couldn't I said you were lazy.

but based on your responses to me in this thread you're proving you are lazy and are unable to read.

If you don't want people to criticise you while you criticise the work that hundreds of people give up their own time and in some cases they're own money to bring you something for free, the least you can do is put in a small bit of effort and not start "i'm not using X os because i'm too much of a moron" threads

over and out good sir.

aidan_walsh

ntlbell wrote:

Stuff.

And to think people wonder why Linux has a reputation of being the domain of elitist pr*cks.