Why I am sticking with Win XP

ntlbell

aidan_walsh wrote: »

And to think people wonder why Linux has a reputation of being the domain of elitist pr*cks.

I can't see how expecting someone to make at least a small effort by READING as being an elitist <anything>

interesting observation tho

mach1982

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If I knew what a trolling was.......
I never said Windows was better. The reason I wanted to change is a complete aversion to microsoft and all it stands for.
It wasn't what I was trying to run in WINE. I couldn't even get WINE to run which I am sure you agree is a fairly critical starting point.

.

Well no actual, I have never used WINE, any way all you need to was use apt-get install wine , or do it through the GUI, and configure ever thing, and if not use did you ever thing using google , chances are there some tutorial on how to use WINE. All you need a is a bit patience. Also you need know how to ask question on Linux forum. Gooleg before you ask the question that way it show that you tried to figure the problem out yourself.

mach1982

Should have read all your replies ,

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

One of my biggest beefs is you end up downloading stuff for both Windows and Linux that you don't need. XP at least lets you choose what you download whereas Ubuntu won't let you discard items you don't want and that is IF you can figure out what they actually are so much so that I've disabled all further updates.

In the open source world , new version comes out about ever month( ubuntu it self come ever 6 months ) most of the stuff Ubuntu downloads are small updates to important programs.

Pawwed Rig

Ok. I hadda bit of time over the hols so had another bash at this and was actually kinda successful (at first anyway). I decided to update to the latest Ubuntu as I was running on 6.10. I had to do this in 2 stages first of to version 7.04 and then to 7.10. This much to my surprise worked first time.
I wanted a Instant messenger app so after failing once more to load WINE I checked out Pidgin which also worked and imported my contacts beautifully. I am thinking this Linux isn't too bad but then I tried to load Java. 4 hours later I threw my laptop against the wall.................

ntlbell

I', not sure what you're doing it usually takes about 30 seconds or so.

https://jdk-distros.dev.java.net/ubuntu.html

sobriquet

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I wanted a Instant messenger app so after failing once more to load WINE I checked out Pidgin which also worked and imported my contacts beautifully. I am thinking this Linux isn't too bad but then I tried to load Java. 4 hours later I threw my laptop against the wall.................

This seems very strange: is your approach to doing anything on Ubuntu to try and get the windows program for that task to work on WINE? If it is, then you're right, Ubuntu and WINE aren't going to be up to the task. As with Pidgin, you may find more success in trying to a native application than run an application for another platform through an emulation layer. As ntlbell says, try to get Java running by running the programs that were intended to be run on Ubuntu, that goes for pretty much everything else too.

mach1982

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ok. I hadda bit of time over the hols so had another bash at this and was actually kinda successful (at first anyway). I decided to update to the latest Ubuntu as I was running on 6.10. I had to do this in 2 stages first of to version 7.04 and then to 7.10. This much to my surprise worked first time.
I wanted a Instant messenger app so after failing once more to load WINE I checked out Pidgin which also worked and imported my contacts beautifully. I am thinking this Linux isn't too bad but then I tried to load Java. 4 hours later I threw my laptop against the wall.................

once again you proven you have no patience, if had even googled , you realised that

1. you can download the new version of ubuntu( 45 mins)
2. Java in repsitory just use apt-get install and make sure it SUNs
3. You DO NOT nee to use WINE, there GAIM which works on nearly all IMs.( AIM,MSN. Jabber)

I have one more piece of advice RTFM ( Read the F**king Manual)

Before you come back and complain do a bit Googleing and it might help you.

See that to lazy to it yourself here how install java

Pawwed Rig

Jesus lads yez are so touchy about the whole Linux thing.
I posted that I downloaded the upgrade to Ubuntu without any probs although 45 mins is a bit optimistic but I'm sure it depends on your internet connection.
Also I posted that I got Pidgin running Ok, which is GAIM under a different name as far as I understand.
I then posted (somewhat tongue in cheek) that I spent 4 hours trying to download java. In that time do you not think I would have tried a couple of websites??
To be honest the touchiness of some of the users here is a real turn off. You're the second person that told me I was lazy for not having the know how to do something. Another guy implied I was stupid and couldn't read!! My original post was about how hard it is to change Operating systems and I'm beginning to see why more people don't bother trying. Not everyone has the tech know how to overcome these obstacles at the first try.

FruitLover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am thinking this Linux isn't too bad but then I tried to load Java. 4 hours later I threw my laptop against the wall.................[/COLOR]

As monkey said earlier, Linux is not Ubuntu - have you tried any other distros? I like Ubuntu, and I tend to recommend it, but there are plenty of others out there, and there might be one that suits you better. Most of them are available free, so you can try a few of them easily.

Several people have tried to tell you that learning to use a linux-based OS is going to take time and patience - there's no way you knew how to make full use of a Windows system the first time you used it; you've probably been using Windows for years. Same with any other OS - there'll be a lot of learning groundwork to be done, and things aren't necessarily going to work the way you expect right off the bat.

aidan_walsh wrote: »

And to think people wonder why Linux has a reputation of being the domain of elitist pr*cks.

It's because we're better than ordinary people.

Pawwed Rig

FruitLover wrote: »

As monkey said earlier, Linux is not Ubuntu - have you tried any other distros?
Several people have tried to tell you that learning to use a linux-based OS is going to take time and patience - there's no way you knew how to make full use of a Windows system the first time you used it; you've probably been using Windows for years.

Yeah I know. Linux Ubuntu (I have to work on my terminology):eek: I tried Madriva, Suse and Fedora but I just preferred the feel of Ubuntu and as I don't have too much time on my hands to spend on the computer I'm gonna stick with it until I learn a bit more so I don't have to start from scratch again. When I become a bit more competent I may try one of the others again.

I realise there is a learning curve associated with a new Operating system. Thats why I'm here . But I am starting at the very bottom. For example I only found out what a repository is last night!!!! I'm not complaining here I just thought I'd post an update to let you all know how I was getting on as I got some helpful and positive comments from some posters so far.

FruitLover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I only found out what a repository is last night!!!!

Just to let you know, this is another Ubuntu-specific term in the context of this thread, and Ubuntu (being based on Debian) is all about dpkg/APT (recommend looking up these terms). Ubuntu uses Ubuntu-specific software repositories, meaning you download Ubuntu-specific packages designed for use with dpkg/APT running on Ubuntu. You (probably) wouldn't be able to use Ubuntu repositories with Gentoo Linux, for example (although chances are good that they'd work with Debian, and vice versa). Many distros don't use repositories in the same way, particularly those based around RPM (although some of these distros can also use APT).

As you can see, even within a single OS type (GNU/Linux) there can be wide variation. A lot of learning ahead!

mach1982

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Jesus lads yez are so touchy about the whole Linux thing.
I posted that I downloaded the upgrade to Ubuntu without any probs although 45 mins is a bit optimistic but I'm sure it depends on your internet connection.
Also I posted that I got Pidgin running Ok, which is GAIM under a different name as far as I understand.
I then posted (somewhat tongue in cheek) that I spent 4 hours trying to download java. In that time do you not think I would have tried a couple of websites??
To be honest the touchiness of some of the users here is a real turn off. You're the second person that told me I was lazy for not having the know how to do something. Another guy implied I was stupid and couldn't read!! My original post was about how hard it is to change Operating systems and I'm beginning to see why more people don't bother trying. Not everyone has the tech know how to overcome these obstacles at the first try.

That is what google is for , do you think i was able install linux the frist try, no, but soon learnt that if I showedethat you did a bit of reserch, befotre you questions people would be more willing to answer. 90% when i have linux question i user google and it gives me the answer, I hardly need to ask any more i just google.It only hard to change operseystem when do read the information that out there , linux is realy 20 yaers old (unix must be more than 30) the plenty of mauals and docs that explain everthing.Not know how do some and being lazy are two differnt things, i don't how change a engine in car, but if had to do it i would read up about frist, then ask questions , so wouldn't don't sound stupid.

ntlbell

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Jesus lads yez are so touchy about the whole Linux thing.
I posted that I downloaded the upgrade to Ubuntu without any probs although 45 mins is a bit optimistic but I'm sure it depends on your internet connection.
Also I posted that I got Pidgin running Ok, which is GAIM under a different name as far as I understand.
I then posted (somewhat tongue in cheek) that I spent 4 hours trying to download java. In that time do you not think I would have tried a couple of websites??
To be honest the touchiness of some of the users here is a real turn off. You're the second person that told me I was lazy for not having the know how to do something. Another guy implied I was stupid and couldn't read!! My original post was about how hard it is to change Operating systems and I'm beginning to see why more people don't bother trying. Not everyone has the tech know how to overcome these obstacles at the first try.

What has the "touchiness of some users" got to do with deciding what OS to use? you're talking like "we" want you to come over to linux and that somehow for doing so we oue you our time in helping you? it couldn't be further from the truth, in fact I don't want people like you trying to use Open Source/Free OS's as this is how they get a name for being hard to use when the truth is you're just too stupid to use it.

You're not lazy for not having "know how" you're lazy for not trying to find out how to do it and gaining "know how"

You were told before, Choose the operating system that does the work you need to do.

Pawwed Rig

sobriquet wrote: »

is your approach to doing anything on Ubuntu to try and get the windows program for that task to work on WINE? If it is, then you're right, Ubuntu and WINE aren't going to be up to the task. As with Pidgin, you may find more success in trying to run an application for another platform through an emulation layer. As ntlbell says, try to get Java running by running the programs that were intended to be run on Ubuntu, that goes for pretty much everything else too.

Hmmm I'm beginning to see you are correct. I thought initially that WINE was an essential programme for apps but am realising that in alot/most cases it can be bypassed.
As another poster commented there is a steep learning curve when switching operating systems:)

sobriquet

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Hmmm I'm beginning to see you are correct. I thought initially that WINE was an essential programme for apps but am realising that in alot/most cases it can be bypassed.
As another poster commented there is a steep learning curve when switching operating systems:)

Right. Okay then. Well now. I just don't quite know how to respond to that.

Just to spell it out though - WINE is in no way, absolutely not, required to run applications on Ubuntu. Not alot/most cases. It can be used, to varying degrees of success, to run programs that were developed for and intended to run on different flavours of Windows.

There is a mountain of software developed for Linux, and lots of it is very conveniently available to Ubuntu through the repositories. Firefox and the Java runtime/JDK for example have native Linux programs. If you're looking for Winamp, you'd want to try something like XMMS or any of the gazillion other media players. Ubuntu comes packaged with Rhythmbox, which is nice. For finding Ubuntu applications that can match the ones you're used to on Windows or suit the equivalent task, you may find www.ubuntuguide.org helpful.

Someone pass the vapours.

liamo

I ignored this thread initially because it didn't seem worth the effort - that is, I didn't need to know why someone wasn't going to do something (ie, switch to Unix/Linux).

This evening, out of boredom, I read it from start to finish and found it fascinating. It has almost all of the elements that fire people up on most forums when it comes to Linux/Windows/Tech.

There are some excellent and helpful posts. There are posts that are a little OTT, but somewhat understandably so. Assumptions and accusations were made. There was patience, impatience, anger, thoughtful posts, quickfire posts (And what on earth does "nm" mean, Conor2007? All I could think of was "Nautical Mile" (My navy background is showing ) or Nanometer.)

The main problem appears to me that the OP made some wrong assumptions about WINE being essential for some undefined reasons. This starting point led the thread in the direction it took. In a normal (across a pub table, for example) conversation someone would have said "Hold on, what are you trying to do? Start from the beginning." and everything would have become clear.

So I call "Hold on....."

OP, you appear to have gotten to the point where you've got Ubuntu installed. Ok, well done. That's an excellent starting point.

I think the main problem that you're encountering is that you don't know the correct questions to ask. This is to be expected when your environment changes so radically.

I believe that all you're missing is a few pointers in the right directions. If I may make a recommendation - set yourself a few objectives....
For example:
1. Get to the point where I can create a document and print it.
2. Send an email.
3. Create a Java "Hello, World" application.
4. and so on ....

When you have a problem with any of the objectives come back to the forum and ask for help (after, of course, asking uncle Google for help first). Be clear about what you're trying to do; what you've tried already; any error messages you're getting.

I commend you on your repeated attempts to get to grips with this new environment. If you persist, I believe that the benefits you will accrue will be far greater than simply being able to use a different OS and I wish you success.

Don't be put off by some of the posts in this thread. Even though some of the posts may have been less than helpful, the posters themselves are very knowledgeable and generally very helpful - and a couple of the posts appear to be out of character (from my experience of their previous posts).

Keep asking questions.

Regards.

Liam

BostonB

My experiences are much the same as Pawwed Rig. I've tried Linux and the Apple OS even BEOS a few times over the years and always gone back to Windows eventually. I agree with liamo this thread typifies the usual threads on this subject. Its not dissimilar to newbie programming threads either.

sobriquet

BostonB wrote: »

My experiences are much the same as Pawwed Rig.

The OP tried to use Ubuntu in a way that was completely abnormal - using Wine to run his all his windows applications. Is that what you did? Did you do the same with MacOS or BeOS?

BostonB wrote: »

I agree with liamo this thread typifies the usual threads on this subject.

I disagree. The OP tried to use Ubuntu in a way that was completely abnormal, and assuming that it was the correct way to do things, posted in a public forum that it was failing entirely to satisfy his needs and he was going back to XP. Many responses to this thread are completely offtopic, if the topic was that Ubuntu is hard to get working and use. However, it's easy to read the original post as if it simply says that Ubuntu sucks too much for a non-'computer geek' to get working. I thought it was a troll, but I'm pretty happy now that it isn't.

I'm not trying to pick on you BostonB, but I want to point out that very often the problem with threads like this is that respondents often conflate their own experience with that of the OP too readily - given how out of left field the OPs approach was I doubt you did the same, on Linux, MacOS and BeOS. When lots of people do that, you end up with an argument where people aren't discussing the same things at all. This thread has so far taken in the OPs frustration and eventually his real problem; the elitism and touchiness of linux users; why people bother with linux at all; what's hard to get working on windows, and probably more. Not even a very long thread either.

I agree with liamo though OP, now that you're on the right track, keep going, it'll be much easier. Oh, liamo, nm probably means never mind.

FruitLover

ntlbell wrote: »

you're talking like "we" want you to come over to linux and that somehow for doing so we oue you our time in helping you? it couldn't be further from the truth, in fact I don't want people like you trying to use Open Source/Free OS's as this is how they get a name for being hard to use when the truth is you're just too stupid to use it.

A wider userbase means more/faster development and better support. You wouldn't have distros like Ubuntu around now if it weren't for all those jumping on the linux bandwagon over the past few years. I'm glad there are more people using open/free operating systems nowadays (well, as long as I don't have to support them...)

Sure, it's annoying when people ask basic questions without doing their research, but noone's forcing you to reply.

nesf

FruitLover wrote: »

Sure, it's annoying when people ask basic questions without doing their research, but noone's forcing you to reply.

Conversely the Ubuntu forums already provide a RTFM free environment for people to ask these kinds of questions in, which is where this thread should be tbh. Not that I agree with flaming people or anything.

BostonB

sobriquet wrote: »

The OP tried to use Ubuntu in a way that was completely abnormal - using Wine to run his all his windows applications. Is that what you did? Did you do the same with MacOS or BeOS?

I disagree. The OP tried to use Ubuntu in a way that was completely abnormal, and assuming that it was the correct way to do things, posted in a public forum that it was failing entirely to satisfy his needs and he was going back to XP. Many responses to this thread are completely offtopic, if the topic was that Ubuntu is hard to get working and use. However, it's easy to read the original post as if it simply says that Ubuntu sucks too much for a non-'computer geek' to get working. I thought it was a troll, but I'm pretty happy now that it isn't.

I'm not trying to pick on you BostonB, but I want to point out that very often the problem with threads like this is that respondents often conflate their own experience with that of the OP too readily - given how out of left field the OPs approach was I doubt you did the same, on Linux, MacOS and BeOS. When lots of people do that, you end up with an argument where people aren't discussing the same things at all. This thread has so far taken in the OPs frustration and eventually his real problem; the elitism and touchiness of linux users; why people bother with linux at all; what's hard to get working on windows, and probably more. Not even a very long thread either....

I was expressing emapthy with Pawwed Rig's general experience, and the end result that you end up back at Windows, and also agreeing with liamo that this thread has all the common elements of a Linux/Windows/Tech thread.

Like you say its very unlikely that I would have the exact same experience as Pawwed Rig even if I had been talking about Ubuntu and not Linux and other OS'es in general.

conor2007

ubuntu or any distro is not worth the hassle

imo!

rmacm

conor2007 wrote: »

ubuntu or any distro is not worth the hassle

imo!

Based on?

I've found Ubuntu, Fedora and almost any other distro I've used up to my needs in both home, college and work situations.

ntlbell

FruitLover wrote: »

A wider userbase means more/faster development and better support. You wouldn't have distros like Ubuntu around now if it weren't for all those jumping on the linux bandwagon over the past few years. I'm glad there are more people using open/free operating systems nowadays (well, as long as I don't have to support them...)

Sure, it's annoying when people ask basic questions without doing their research, but noone's forcing you to reply.

Not sure you got my point.

I think it's great that they're distro's that are so easy to use that my 62yr old mother can use and maintain without one phone call to me (she's been running FreeBSD since 4.X)

The reason she can do this is she can read and she's not lazy.

Her I want as a linux/BSD user as she wont be on random forums telling people how bad Linux/BSD is because SHE is too stupid

Bandwagon jumping i don't mind, lazy people berating open source software because of their own laziness I do. I'm more than willing to help people and have spent years doing so, as long as the person is willing to listen and do their own research first and if the OP had came looking for help and not with a story of him staying with XP I would of offered him help also.

Hobbes

Linux is great. I love it a lot. However Linux in general is not ready for your grandmother to run out of the box, unless she is using a machine that you know for sure works fine or your grandmother worked on the linux operating system.

To give an example, I installed Suse on a Dell Laptop. I then spent ages trying to get the graphics card to work. I eventually found the solution in a comment in someones blog which involved having to edit files at the text level. I should point out I paid for Suse so even had the support contract and support could not help me at all. In fact they were so unhelpful I had forgotten I had put in the support call by the time they responded with a useless answer.

The only thing I use windows for these days is games (and some internal work). Every other application I have runs under linux fine. But it did require a certain level of knowledge to get it all set up.

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

...The reason she can do this is she can read and she's not lazy...too stupid ...

Being stupid and too lazy and being unable to read must be why my college tutor (an experienced Linux user and tutor) and the Unix gurus at work couldn't help me to get WiFi working on two of the Laptops I had Linux on and why they couldn't get certain screen res working on various laptops, whereas I did with some kludges.

I guess that logic would also apply to Vista problems, it can't be lack of support or bugs causing problems but the lazy stupid users being unable to read.

ntlbell wrote: »

...my 62yr old mother ...

Well done sexist and ageist.

Make a great marketing slogan. "Are you female, decrepit, stupid, lazy and illiterate. Even you'll be able to use our product".

I would say more people would use Linux if they had more time to spend with it. When your up against it time wise you fall back on what you know best. I use Windows for games. All of my development work is on Windows, and I support Windows Servers, and workstations. Some old cobol and Dec Alpha's Vax etc. We've a couple of linux servers for minor projects but I just don't have the time to play with them. anymore.

ntlbell

BostonB wrote: »

Being stupid and too lazy and being unable to read must be why my college tutor (an experienced Linux user and tutor) and the Unix gurus at work couldn't help me to get WiFi working on two of the Laptops I had Linux on and why they couldn't get certain screen res working on various laptops, whereas I did with some kludges.

I guess that logic would also apply to Vista problems, it can't be lack of support or bugs causing problems but the lazy stupid users being unable to read.



Well done sexist and ageist.

Make a great marketing slogan. "Are you female, decrepit, stupid, lazy and illiterate. Even you'll be able to use our product".

I have no idea why you're tutor or UNIX guru's couldn't get your wifi to work, maybe they felt they were wasting too much of their own time on someone else's problem, hopefully they pointed you in the right direction to help yourself, but I'm not sure what your point is, when your tutor and UNIX guru's come on boards telling us why they're sticking with XP I'll ask them why.

If you have a bit of hardware that doesn't support vista, during your reading and research before buying vista I'm sure you would of found the bit of hardware on the HCL if not, why did you buy it or why did you upgrade before checking the HCL if the hardware is on the HCL and doesn't work due to a bug in Vista, you have done your research you read the HCL you can now report the bug if you wish job done, I don't see how a bit of hardware on the HCL not working in vista is related to you being stupid or lazy you have done the work.

I love the slogan, now all we need is an OS to match, oh wait......

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

I have no idea why you're tutor or UNIX guru's couldn't get your wifi to work, maybe they felt they were wasting too much of their own time on someone else's problem, hopefully they pointed you in the right direction to help yourself, but I'm not sure what your point is, when your tutor and UNIX guru's come on boards telling us why they're sticking with XP I'll ask them why.

It was a class on Operating systems, and all of the course work was based around Linux, projects. True to form, negative comment, "wasting their time". The point is its not always laziness or stupidity, age or gender that is the cause of a problem not being solved. Sometimes things simply don't work. Or are broken, or finding the solution will just take too much time than the result warrants.

ntlbell

BostonB wrote: »

It was a class on Operating systems, and all of the course work was based around Linux, projects. True to form, negative comment, "wasting their time". The point is its not always laziness or stupidity, age or gender that is the cause of a problem not being solved. Sometimes things simply don't work. Or are broken, or finding the solution will just take too much time than the result warrants.

What I find a bit strange is during a course on OS's with experienced Tutor's and UNIX guru's they didn't make sure they had laptop's/desktops with compatible working hardware.

If they did and it was just you pulled out a random laptop to try and get working there then I'm not sure what it has to do with this discussion.

If you are making a decision to move to an entirely new OS such as Linux from Windows/OS X and you do a very small bit of research you will quickly realize there is going to be a fairly sharp learning curve and you will have to put the time and effort into it, if you don't have the time and effort then simply don't make the switch or make a gradual one in your spare time.

You like one or two others are missing the point here.

If the OP tried to make the switch and found out it was going to be time consuming and simply reverted back to XP for the time being that's not an issue, but when you come on to a very public forum and berate the OS when it's quite clear there wasn't a lot of effort put in then I have the right to point that fact out.

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

What I find a bit strange is during a course on OS's with experienced Tutor's and UNIX guru's they didn't make sure they had laptop's/desktops with compatible working hardware. If they did and it was just you pulled out a random laptop to try and get working there then I'm not sure what it has to do with this discussion.

Because in the real world you often have to work with what you have not what is ideal. That includes time constraints, and resource constraints. It would be a perfectly good reason to stick with XP (thread title) if your existing or brand new hardware supports XP, and you realise Linux doesn't. Or your realise its going to take a lot longer than originally estimated

ntlbell wrote: »

If you are making a decision to move to an entirely new OS such as Linux from Windows/OS X and you do a very small bit of research you will quickly realize there is going to be a fairly sharp learning curve and you will have to put the time and effort into it, if you don't have the time and effort then simply don't make the switch or make a gradual one in your spare time.

You like one or two others are missing the point here.

If the OP tried to make the switch and found out it was going to be time consuming and simply reverted back to XP for the time being that's not an issue, but when you come on to a very public forum and berate the OS when it's quite clear there wasn't a lot of effort put in then I have the right to point that fact out.

Equally you'll hear people on OSX/Linux forum whine on about Viruses and Spyware on XP when its not a significant issue if you bother to make any effort to protect your system, and have a bit of common sense about what you do on the web. Etc etc. If someone new to XP posts about having a Windows problem. Which is more likely. A) they'll get a majority of helpful responses. Or someone will say you're an idiot who can't read, probably a woman who's past it? I didn't berate the OS, I just empathised with the OP and agreed with liamo. How is this a "Very" public forum vs a public forum?

ntlbell

BostonB wrote: »

Because in the real world you often have to work with what you have not what is ideal. That includes time constraints, and resource constraints. It would be a perfectly good reason to stick with XP (thread title) if your existing or brand new hardware supports XP, and you realise Linux doesn't. Or your realise its going to take a lot longer than originally estimated



Equally you'll hear people on OSX/Linux forum whine on about Viruses and Spyware on XP when its not a significant issue if you bother to make any effort to protect your system, and have a bit of common sense about what you do on the web. Etc etc. If someone new to XP posts about having a Windows problem. Which is more likely. A) they'll get a majority of helpful responses. Or someone will say you're an idiot who can't read, probably a woman who's past it? I didn't berate the OS, I just empathised with the OP and agreed with liamo. How is this a "Very" public forum vs a public forum?

I would of thought ending up with incompatible hardware in the real world would of been down to lack of effort/thought/common sense/prep work?
But if it was the case surely a quick glance again at a HCL would answer the question for you, instead of a Linux genius of a tutor and a couple pf UNIX guru's standing around your laptop like monkeys trying to get your card to work.

I never stated you berated the OS I was referring to the OP.

By very public forum I meant one that actually gets a lot of hits/visitor's where it will be read by a lot of people compared to with not so many I chose the wrong word, I'm sorry, but again what has that got to do with the topic?

Please stay on topic.

Pawwed Rig

liamo wrote: »

The main problem appears to me that the OP made some wrong assumptions about WINE being essential for some undefined reasons. This starting point led the thread in the direction it took. In a normal (across a pub table, for example) conversation someone would have said "Hold on, what are you trying to do? Start from the beginning." and everything would have become clear.

To be honest with you I originally posted this message after a frustrating couple of hours trying to load Wine. Which as you pointed out was a wrong assumption on what I needed to get up and running. I was fully intending to knock Ubuntu on the head and stick with XP. Hence I wasn't asking for help as some here thought but merely expressing an opinion on an open forum.

However having a bit of time over Christmas I had another look and have been moderately successful even though the OS still doesn't do a quarter of what I want, it will probably be something I come and go from for another while at least. I have since read on another thread on this site that debian probably isn't the easiest OS to start with but I'll stick with it for the time being.

liamo wrote: »

Don't be put off by some of the posts in this thread. Even though some of the posts may have been less than helpful, the posters themselves are very knowledgeable and generally very helpful - and a couple of the posts appear to be out of character (from my experience of their previous posts).

water duck etc But tbh they were the kind of responses I was expecting.


Btw thanks for the pointers

conor2007

it means ''nevermind''

i mean , you do a lot of work in any linux distro and you still dont get to where osx or windows is

Creamy Goodness

can people stop specifically writing in black text. makes it impossible to read on the cloud theme.

conor2007

odd , i have that theme too

just select the text

Creamy Goodness

but if it was just written without selecting black font it would come up black in the normal skin and white in the cloud skin.

i don't see why cloud skin users are just expected to select the text.

i know this is off-topic but it's an interesting read although it being a pain in the ass to read.

Capt'n Midnight

ha ha !

conor2007

true

but ah well

AndrewMc

conor2007 wrote: »

i mean , you do a lot of work in any linux distro and you still dont get to where osx or windows is

I find the reverse, to be honest

I also think too many people compare pre-installed Windows to hand-installed Linux — not an entirely fair comparison.

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

I would of thought ending up with incompatible hardware in the real world would of been down to lack of effort/thought/common sense/prep work?
But if it was the case surely a quick glance again at a HCL would answer the question for you, instead of a Linux genius of a tutor and a couple pf UNIX guru's standing around your laptop like monkeys trying to get your card to work.

From experience its often possible to get things working that aren't officially supported through hacks and kludges. Though standing around like monkeys isn't required. Does it help?

ntlbell wrote: »

I never stated you berated the OS I was referring to the OP.

By very public forum I meant one that actually gets a lot of hits/visitor's where it will be read by a lot of people compared to with not so many I chose the wrong word, I'm sorry, but again what has that got to do with the topic?

Please stay on topic.

Just trying to keep up. Hard when you're decrepit, stupid, lazy and illiterate.

BostonB

AndrewMc wrote: »

I find the reverse, to be honest

I also think too many people compare pre-installed Windows to hand-installed Linux — not an entirely fair comparison.

True. Most people in a thread like this are not coming from a clean sheet of experience when comparing Windows and a Linux install, or as you say comparing two pre installed systems. If a complete new user compared a oem install of Linux and Windows I wonder which they'd prefer. Probably a Mac.

nesf

BostonB wrote: »

If a complete new user compared a oem install of Linux and Windows I wonder which they'd prefer.

Windows is much more straightforward to install for a new person. The disks in the boxes of the stuff they just plugged in will almost definitely have the right drivers on them, which helps a lot for a complete new person.

BostonB

I kinda meant pre-installed with everything working. I wasn't clear sorry.

Lots of people who are downgrading to XP from Vista on Dell machines are finding it takes a bit of effort to get all the correct XP drivers from Dell. (myself included) As they only supplied the Vista drivers. On the newer machines a lot of the drivers for lan, wifi, sound are not on a (non dell XP disk).

nesf

BostonB wrote: »

I kinda meant pre-installed with everything working. I wasn't clear sorry.

Ah, I thought you meant two people installing on self builds.

*blames the alcohol*


Edit:

BostonB wrote: »

Lots of people who are downgrading to XP from Vista on Dell machines are finding it takes a bit of effort to get all the correct XP drivers from Dell. (myself included) As they only supplied the Vista drivers.

Yeah, I prefer to build PCs tbh. Though there's solid arguments for picking up a new cheap Dell every year.

ntlbell

BostonB wrote: »

From experience its often possible to get things working that aren't officially supported through hacks and kludges. Though standing around like monkeys isn't required. Does it help?



Just trying to keep up. Hard when you're decrepit, stupid, lazy and illiterate.

Of course it's often possible to get things working that aren't officially supported, I would of thought that's how the drivers for numerous bits of hardware including network cards that have been built by a ton of develeoper's got there in the first place, but some like the OpenBSD guys strive to hurt companies who don't proviide doc's on the hardware so people won't buy them until they do so average joe doesn't have to hack the gibson and write a new driver or some bo llox to get his hardware working (this gets back to not having gobsheen admin who can read HCL's in order to buy the correct hardware in the first place)

But again you're talking nonsense that has nothing to do with the OP you have tried to claim too much effort so leave it be and now it's worth so much effort to hack a driver or some such to get it working so the OP should now have learned to code to rewrite wine to get his box running as he liked it can i lawl? pls?

being decrepit, stupid and lazy is a problem if you need help boards has Personal Issues so can you use that for those issue's and try and stay with the technical stuff here?

if you require any reading material on how to be a decent sys admin, or how to buy new hardware in your environment without causing a user to write a driver to use it I'm sure someone can point you to it or lend you it, there's a book club afaik

conor2007

installing any linux distro is easy

getting simple things like mp3's to work is dificult

ntlbell

conor2007 wrote: »

installing any linux distro is easy

getting simple things like mp3's to work is dificult

this is true.

apt-get install xmms can be heart breaking i don't know how people do it

or what about make install xmms this is another tricky hurdle beware!

pkg_add -r xmms another moutain this a steep climb only for pro's

BostonB

ntlbell wrote: »

Of course it's often possible to get things working that aren't officially supported, I would of thought that's how the drivers for numerous bits of hardware including network cards that have been built by a ton of develeoper's got there in the first place, but some like the OpenBSD guys strive to hurt companies who don't proviide doc's on the hardware so people won't buy them until they do so average joe doesn't have to hack the gibson and write a new driver or some bo llox to get his hardware working (this gets back to not having gobsheen admin who can read HCL's in order to buy the correct hardware in the first place)

But again you're talking nonsense that has nothing to do with the OP you have tried to claim too much effort so leave it be and now it's worth so much effort to hack a driver or some such to get it working so the OP should now have learned to code to rewrite wine to get his box running as he liked it can i lawl? pls?

being decrepit, stupid and lazy is a problem if you need help boards has Personal Issues so can you use that for those issue's and try and stay with the technical stuff here?

if you require any reading material on how to be a decent sys admin, or how to buy new hardware in your environment without causing a user to write a driver to use it I'm sure someone can point you to it or lend you it, there's a book club afaik

I remember one distro where the laptops new onboard chipset wasn't supported officially after some trial and error I found a driver from an older chipset that worked enough to be usable. Same thing with a sound card. Not on the HCL and didn't need to write a new driver. Same thing often works on Windows. The OP and others have been talking more than just Wine. You've managed to get sexism, ageism, book clubs, Personal Issues and monkeys into it.

conor2007

mmm

pointless commands , honestly who wants to enter them in to do simple tasks

rmacm

conor2007 wrote: »

mmm

pointless commands , honestly who wants to enter them in to do simple tasks

If the commands were pointless as you say they would achieve no results. If you don't want to use the command line try Synaptic on Ubuntu for a gui package management application in Ubuntu.