Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Sizzler

Probably the biggest match of the season regardless of league position for both teams, might as well get the ball rolling after a weekend of change in the league.

Liverpool lose their excellent unbeaten record to unfancied opposition, less than 24 hours later Arsenal do the same to an even more unfancied team. Boro supporters undoubtedley asking themselves today "Why the fcuk don't we apply ourselves like that every game?".

Anyway back on topic. Regardless of what happens in the CL this week this match could make Liverpools assault on the title that bit tougher if they lose on Sunday. McManaman said on Setanta last night that their season was over if they lost it :eek:

Liverpool have been in pretty good form it has to be said (Apart from yesterday ) Rafa's pick n mix team selection is probably the worst part of their campaign to date, other than that you can't knock their league position or consistency.

Utd were non-existent in their last away day at Bolton. They have since completed two 'routine' home wins against struggling teams, without really setting the world on fire. Rooney is back and has been unlucky not to score, can Rio and Vidic handle Torres (assuming Rafa picks him lol). Can they step up to the plate for a big win?

pd101

I have a feeling United will win. They have more match winners in good form at the minute copared to Liverpool. Also they have an advantage considering their respective situations in the CL.

An Citeog

Then again, it is on in Anfield. A lot will depend on whether or not Hargreaves is fit. These were the kinds of games he was brought in for. Apart from Torres, Liverpool's obvious strength is the the centre of midfield. I think it'd be a big ask for Carrick and Anderson, but with Hargreaves and Anderson I'd be quietly optimistic.

No need to say anything about the defence and our quality in attack speaks for itself. Hopefully Ronaldo has another quiet game like he did against Arsenal!

Chardee MacDennis

i have a feeling if Liverpool can get a good result against Marseille we can be spurred on to win but a draw wouldnt surprise me, but if we go out of the CL i think we will definitely win as the league is all thats left, the players will be amazingly geared up for it and Rafa may treat it like a cup final.

or am i just being optimisitic!?!

dc69

Sizzler wrote: »

McManaman said on Setanta last night that their season was over if they lost it :eek:

i dont think it would be over but it wouldnt do it any favours,you would expect a liverpool win at home,but a draw wouldnt surprise me.united i dont think are on fire,like liverpool had been until reading,they got beaten by bolton and conceding to derby,you would have to think torres will score if he plays.

liverpool need agger,i think he is back but im not sure.imo he is better than hypia in every sence not just speed.ronaldo and hypia is not a good situation for liverpool

do any of you united fans think it was scabby of ronaldo not to give tevez the penalty to complete his hat trick?.i mean he dived for it anyway lol

Melion

I wont talk about any result in ths game til after the Marseille match. Im hoping we get knocked out so Rafa finally see's what we all want, we dont care about the champions league, at least not until we can make a decent go at winning the title.

DSB

Call_me_al wrote: »

if we go out of the CL i think we will definitely win as the league is all thats left

But they really aren't as good as the other teams in the title race. It should help them alright but I don't think it will be enough to get too near to the top spot.

dc69

Melion wrote: »

I wont talk about any result in ths game til after the Marseille match. Im hoping we get knocked out so Rafa finally see's what we all want, we dont care about the champions league, at least not until we can make a decent go at winning the title.

even if that happened we would never hear the end of it,i can imagine it ,they tossed the cl becuase they couldnt compete with both

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

I wont talk about any result in ths game til after the Marseille match. Im hoping we get knocked out so Rafa finally see's what we all want, we dont care about the champions league, at least not until we can make a decent go at winning the title.

Speak for yourself. I care about the champions league and I'm sure the players do too. I don't think it was resting players for the champions league that lost the game against Reading. It was a combination of a new formation/system that didn't work, lots of players having a bad game, Reading having a good game and a few unlucky decisions.

It was hardly a second string side that played against Reading. Mascherano, Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Crouch...

On the utd game, cant wait. Its a must win and I'm sure Rafa knows this. Hopefully the game during the week can be won early on so we can bring off the likes of Gerrard & Torres to keep them fresh.

Call_me_al wrote: »

but if we go out of the CL i think we will definitely win as the league is all thats left, t

Oh ? And here was I thinking we were still in all four competitions.

Melion

Tusky wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I care about the champions league and I'm sure the players do too. I don't think it was resting players for the champions league that lost the game against Reading. It was a combination of a new formation/system that didn't work, lots of players having a bad game, Reading having a good game and a few unlucky decisions.

It was hardly a second string side that played against Reading. Mascherano, Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Crouch...

On the utd game, cant wait. Its a must win and I'm sure Rafa knows this. Hopefully the game during the week can be won early on so we can bring off the likes of Gerrard & Torres to keep them fresh.

It wasnt a new formation or system, it was the same one he used against Newcastle and we hockeyed them last weekend.

Tusky

Melion wrote: »

It wasnt a new formation or system, it was the same one he used against Newcastle and we hockeyed them last weekend.

We have never played with three out and out strikers and no wingers. Crouch was almost playing left wing!

Game against Newcastle (from memory)

---

Torres

Kewell

---

Kuyt

---

Gerrard

---

Lucas--Sissoko

Game against Reading.

Crouch----Torres

---

Voronin

---

Gerrard

---

Mascherano--Sissoko

There was nobody coming deep for the ball (unusual for us). Crouch & Voronin both looked like headless chickens and Torres was often up on his own. They might look similar on paper but they were two different systems in my opinion.

Unearthly

Draw written all over it.

Unless John O'Shea plays, bycicle kick 40 yards out 1-0 Man Utd

Chardee MacDennis

Tusky wrote: »

Oh ? And here was I thinking we were still in all four competitions.

you know what i mean!

i dont care about domestic cups this year, if we dont finish top 3 and within touching distance of the winners no amount of domestic cups would make this season a good season. would you not agree?

or would you prefer 4th place, knocked out of cl with the worthy and the FA cups?

Nunu

Melion wrote: »

I wont talk about any result in ths game til after the Marseille match. Im hoping we get knocked out so Rafa finally see's what we all want, we dont care about the champions league, at least not until we can make a decent go at winning the title.

As a supporter I can never understand this kind of thinking from other fans no matter what the logic behind it

Unearthly

It's a very bizarre attitude to have alright, if Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd can manage to compete in both, why can't Liverpool?

DSB

It isn't the attitude of a supporter at all.

Guy:Incognito

Well it's an attitude shared by a few of us. I'd rather a proper ruun at the league than 4 decent runs in all comps. The only way we are realisticly goinj gto win the league or at least come very close is if Rafas hand is forced and he has to concentrate on the league.

As long as the cl is still on, it looks like its still his priority. We've had 2 finals inm 3 years and thats great but the league is no1.

Priorities people.

Unearthly wrote: »

It's a very bizarre attitude to have alright, if Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd can manage to compete in both, why can't Liverpool?

As above, Rafa's attitude. Games like yesterday will keep happening around cl games and that will cost usin the league.

homerjay2005

i would be happy if both games on sunday ended in draws.

ill be watching this with one big hangover after the christmas party. it will be tight match, probably not a classic!

evad_lhorg

im puttin my money on John o shea to score the winner

Dave!

Unearthly wrote: »

Draw written all over it.

Unless John O'Shea plays, bycicle kick 40 yards out 1-0 Man Utd

That's where the smart money is.

Unearthly

Stekelly wrote: »

As above, Rafa's attitude. Games like yesterday will keep happening around cl games and that will cost usin the league.

If that's the case then you should be asking for Benitez sacked instead. He has no reason why he can't challenge for both, the squad is there.

Guy:Incognito

Unearthly wrote: »

If that's the case then you should be asking for Benitez sacked instead. He has no reason why he can't challenge for both, the squad is there.

Well that sdown to him and the way he plays so. I can see no reason for the approach to yesterdays game than the Marseilles game. Even if he was swappign like for like in small numbers but he's chopping and changing formations and everything (or just not having one like yesterday)

PHB

I'm gona stick my head out on this one, like really stick it out, well open to being quoted for years to come, United are gona win this game comfortably. Too much going forward, and United's defence is good enough to contain Liverpools attack. I think Liverpool are gona try keep this game very tight, if Rafa makes it open I'm sure we'll win, but I don't think he will. As such, it's gona be about a couple of individual battles.

Can Torres be stopped by Rio? Yes. The only defender who is really able to match Torres for pace, indeed might be faster than him, also Torres is the style of player Rio is best against.
Can Gerrard be stopped by Hargreaves? Yes.
Can Ronaldo get the better of Arbeloa/Riise? Yes.
Can Anderson get the better of Mascherano and Sissoko/Lucas? I'd be surprised, but I don't think it'll matter.
Can Anderson/Tevez/Rooney's movement break down Liverpools central defence? Absolutely.
Most importantly, can Liverpool's defence come close to keeping up with United's attacking pace? I don't think so.

Where do I think this game will be won? Rooney and Ronaldo. I think they will cause a lot of hassle, and when they get double marked, they'll create the space for others. I also have a sneaking feeling Giggs is gona play a big role in this game.

United's last few league results against Liverpool:

Away 1-0 to United
Home 2-0 to United
Away 0-0 Draw
Home 1-0 to United
Home 2-1 to United
Away 1-0 to United

Last three years we've had 5 wins and a draw. I think Fergie's got the better of Rafa. Just like Rafa had the better of Mourinho, and Mourinho had the better of Fergie.

I just know this is gona come back to haunt me

Peyton Manning

Rio will score.
















Again

Smegball

1-1 Draw.
Rooney to score in the first half for United and Gerrard to equalise in last 10 mins. That's my precise prediction
Hopefully I'm wrong and United thrash them

missingtime

I'm predicting a 2-1 win for liverpool.

Utd to score first, Rio to score an og and oh lets say Lucas to score the winner.

If only Carlesberg did Liverpool Man Utd matches....

Sizzler

PHB wrote: »

United are gona win this game comfortably.

You're right about this going to come back and bite you in the a$$, probably around 3.30pm on Sunday

If anybody is going to score for United it will be Rooney, its set up for him

ROCKMAN

PHB wrote: »

I'm gona stick my head out on this one, like really stick it out, well open to being quoted for years to come, United are gona win this game comfortably. Too much going forward, and United's defence is good enough to contain Liverpools attack. I think Liverpool are gona try keep this game very tight, if Rafa makes it open I'm sure we'll win, but I don't think he will. As such, it's gona be about a couple of individual battles.

Can Torres be stopped by Rio? Yes. The only defender who is really able to match Torres for pace, indeed might be faster than him, also Torres is the style of player Rio is best against.
Can Gerrard be stopped by Hargreaves? Yes.
Can Ronaldo get the better of Arbeloa/Riise? Yes.
Can Anderson get the better of Mascherano and Sissoko/Lucas? I'd be surprised, but I don't think it'll matter.
Can Anderson/Tevez/Rooney's movement break down Liverpools central defence? Absolutely.
Most importantly, can Liverpool's defence come close to keeping up with United's attacking pace? I don't think so.

Where do I think this game will be won? Rooney and Ronaldo. I think they will cause a lot of hassle, and when they get double marked, they'll create the space for others. I also have a sneaking feeling Giggs is gona play a big role in this game.

United's last few league results against Liverpool:

Away 1-0 to United
Home 2-0 to United
Away 0-0 Draw
Home 1-0 to United
Home 2-1 to United
Away 1-0 to United

Last three years we've had 5 wins and a draw. I think Fergie's got the better of Rafa. Just like Rafa had the better of Mourinho, and Mourinho had the better of Fergie.

I just know this is gona come back to haunt me

Lets make it 2 that can be pointed at and ridicule for years to come , But I was about to post something very similar and go for a comfortable 2-0 win for UTD. I just think this year we have to much firepower and movement for Liverpool . Liverpool have 4 or 5 match winners to deal with where as Utd have only 1 maybe 2 to deal with. IMO

RE*AC*TOR

Neither team is firing on full cylinders at the moment. I think it could be a cagey match, coming down to who takes the chances that may come their way. I wouldn't like to predict it either way, and I certainly wouldn't be certain of a win for Liverpool. A draw is probably the most likely outcome.

Lex Luthor

I'm not going to even bother trying to predict this one....

Form of both teams at the moment is equal. Both scoring for fun bar Liverpool against Reading and UTD against Bolton.

Trying to pick the match winner or who will win the individual battles is pointless as it never works out that way in these big matches.

The main thing is, Liverpool need to win this one. It seems like ages that they have beaten Utd and for them to lose would be a huge blow.

Utd can just sit back and contain them and hope for a late goal as they have done in the last few years.

I'm looking forward to it but then again I'm not if you know what I mean....

Wife has decided to take herself out of the house on Sat with the kids as she can't stand to be around me the morning of the build up to this one....I'm usually on a different planet

Roar

liverpool are an average side punching above their weight (like ricky hatton), playing average football with a manager who's lost the plot, and a "captain" who can't be arsed.. he should really have "for sale" written on his shirt, cause he's playing like a player who wants away

they'll be scrapping for fourth place by the end of the season.

a united win is the only outcome i can see, and this is coming from a neutral..

Sizzler

Lex Luthor wrote: »

.

Wife has decided to take herself out of the house on Sat with the kids as she can't stand to be around me the morning of the build up to this one....I'm usually on a different planet

You might need to have a word with her so, as the match is on Sunday

Xavi6

Here's what'll happen -

1. Ronaldo will dive for a peno then pick himself up and score it.
2. Rio will be first man over to celebrate, jumping on Ronny's back
3. Gerrard will score a free kick for 1-1
4. Reina will drop a clanger for 1-2
5. Kewell will pull a hammy
6. Evra will get chopped and claim he's being picked on
7. Sissoko will hit the corner flag with a shot
8. People will forget Voronin is playing
9. Pool will somehow equalise
10.Carragher will throw himself in front of everything to preserve a point

and finally.....

11. John O'Shea will nick a winner in the 8th minute of injury time (play having been held up for Kewell's injury)

Should be good!

Sizzler

^^ I see you have matching chips on your shoulder, one for Liverpool and one for Utd, must make it handier to balance yourself and stuff :rolleyes:

Xavi6

Sizzler wrote: »

^^ I see you have matching chips on your shoulder, one for Liverpool and one for Utd, must make it handier to balance yourself and stuff :rolleyes:

Au contraire. I'm actually looking forward to the game. I just wouldn't be surprised if that's how it pans out. Plus they get to take points off each other!

herbieflowers

Man U have the ability to score goals from most areas of the pitch, but in saying that it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to outscore the Pool and win...dpends on what system Rafa plays too, if they go for the attack Utd's pace will kill them (Liverpool's noticeable absence of pace etc)...if they try and play a waiting game, patience etc they could well nick it 1-0 and frustrate Man U, still I'd expect Utd's defence to manage, although it could be a crappy header froma corner or something...

Liverpool's main golascoring threat comes from Torres and Gerrard...setpieces, as always will be vital for both sides...

Jazzy

its gonna be 1-0 on a jammy goal.

to who u ask ? the jammier of course!

prendy

Can Torres be stopped by Rio? Yes. The only defender who is really able to match Torres for pace, indeed might be faster than him, also Torres is the style of player Rio is best against.

LOL have you seen how quick torres is????
rio is quick but not as quick as torres!

you also forgot the flip side of your arguments...can rooney and tevez be stoped...yes
will ronaldo dive...absolutly

will the game be an absolute let down...probably as with most of the much hyped games involving the top 4!!!!

whatawaster

We really are due a win against United, and I think we'll get it.

Chardee MacDennis

i do agree that Torres is the type of player that Rio does well against but i dont think that he is as fast. What we havent had in the last few years is a striker that sits on the shoulder of the last defender, Torres is that and he is the type of player that can exploit one of Rio's lapses in concentration and get behind the Rio and Vidic.

we just need our defence on their top game and Riise not to play!! if arbeloa can take care of Ronaldinho maybe he can do the same to Ronaldo, i know different type of player but still i can hope!!!

Unearthly

prendy wrote: »

LOL have you seen how quick torres is????
rio is quick but not as quick as torres!

you also forgot the flip side of your arguments...can rooney and tevez be stoped...yes
will ronaldo dive...absolutly

will the game be an absolute let down...probably as with most of the much hyped games involving the top 4!!!!

I'd hardly call the last few games in the league between the 2 a let down tbh :cool:

whatawaster

Call_me_al wrote: »

i do agree that Torres is the type of player that Rio does well against but i dont think that he is as fast. What we havent had in the last few years is a striker that sits on the shoulder of the last defender, Torres is that and he is the type of player that can exploit one of Rio's lapses in concentration and get behind the Rio and Vidic.

we just need our defence on their top game and Riise not to play!! if arbeloa can take care of Ronaldinho maybe he can do the same to Ronaldo, i know different type of player but still i can hope!!!

well he took care of Messi, and he is a far superior player to Ronaldo so i'm not worried.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

Can Torres be stopped by Rio? Yes. The only defender who is really able to match Torres for pace, indeed might be faster than him, also Torres is the style of player Rio is best against.

Ha you serious? Richards is quicker than Rio, as is Distin.

PHB

I have watched a lot of Torres. Rio is one, if not the, fastest central defenders in the premiership, infact the only ones I can think who matches him for pace is Gallas and Richards. His pace and acceleration is his greatest attribute. Have you ever seen him beaten for pace?

Can Rooney and Tevez be stopped? They haven't yet I don't think a weakened Liverpool defence is gona make it very easier
Will Ronaldo dive? Maybe, but I don't think that means he can be stopped by Arbeloa He will have to be double marked, as he always is. But this will in turn give more space to Tevez and Rooney.

This is not to mention the fact that Liverpool will be playing a full strength team on Tuesday, while United will rest every player playing in the Liverpool game.

I think all of these things will lead to Rafa trying to play a very defensive game, looking for a draw or to nick a win. I think if that happens, United will be able to break them down. Hargreaves-Ferdinand and Vidic will be pretty much able to mark Gerrard and Torres, which I think they can do. Liverpools wingers are not their main threat.

Unearthly

It's hard to tell who has more pace, some players use their pace to so much effect(Henry) that they look the fastest player in the world, when they aren't even the fastest in their squad.

One thing that shocked me before, Fergusons 1st Prem champions team, Pallister was the fastest player in that squad

gosplan

This will be a very tight game in which liverpool will try and outmuscle Utd.

They can do it but I don't know if they will.

Utd's attack is amazing against poor teams who afford them too much space. If Utd fans think this is going to be the case they're seriously mistaken. Also if you think Ronaldo is going to get one on one with Hypia you're mistaken. Liverpools back four and Mascherano will probably not pass the halfway line.

I expect to see a game very similar to last year, maybe one goal in the difference. Torres could be the key but he's not guaranteed to score as some here seem to think.

Chardee MacDennis

PHB wrote: »

Will Ronaldo dive? Maybe, but I don't think that means he can be stopped by Arbeloa
.
.
This is not to mention the fact that Liverpool will be playing a full strength team on Tuesday, while United will rest every player playing in the Liverpool game.
.
.

I dont see why he cant take care of Ronaldo whether he dives or not. i dont think he will be double marked unless both Riise and Arbeloa play on the left side.

I dont think us playing on Tuesday should make a difference, if professional players cant give 100% for 180 minutes over 6 days it's ridiculous. as Ian Holloway said he played twice every sat and once again every sunday from under 10s up to under 16s or so, it shouldnt be too tough for these players and training will be reorganised to ensure the players are ready.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

I have watched a lot of Torres. Rio is one, if not the, fastest central defenders in the premiership, infact the only ones I can think who matches him for pace is Gallas and Richards. His pace and acceleration is his greatest attribute. Have you ever seen him beaten for pace?

Can Rooney and Tevez be stopped? They haven't yet I don't think a weakened Liverpool defence is gona make it very easier
Will Ronaldo dive? Maybe, but I don't think that means he can be stopped by Arbeloa He will have to be double marked, as he always is. But this will in turn give more space to Tevez and Rooney.

This is not to mention the fact that Liverpool will be playing a full strength team on Tuesday, while United will rest every player playing in the Liverpool game.

I think all of these things will lead to Rafa trying to play a very defensive game, looking for a draw or to nick a win. I think if that happens, United will be able to break them down. Hargreaves-Ferdinand and Vidic will be pretty much able to mark Gerrard and Torres, which I think they can do. Liverpools wingers are not their main threat.

your so wrong it's not even funny. Despite his reputation, Rafa has almost never gone into a big game and set his team out to play defensively. We went to the Nou Camp last year and had a go and that is a much scarier proposition than United at home. United are a good team, but we have no reason to fear them, especially at Anfield. We've outplayed you in our last couple of home matches, and I see no reason why we can't do the same again. I know United are stronger now than they were then, but so are we.
I have never seen Rafa play Defensively at home in a big match, certainly not in the last couple of years. The arsenal match may have looked that way, but that was just because we couldn't get the ball. Chelsea, Juventus Barcelona are just three examples.

Mossy Monk

I predict a Manchester United win. I think they will win by two goals.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote:

This is not to mention the fact that Liverpool will be playing a full strength team on Tuesday, while United will rest every player playing in the Liverpool game.

I don't think this will impact on us in any way from a fitness point of view to be honest. They're professional athletes and they have 4 full days of recovery time. They'll probably fly home on the tuesday night and have some very light training on wednesday, then its pretty much business as usual for thursday and friday with another light one on saturday.

If anything a decent win in Merseille could be the perfect intro for this game, as id rather not be going into it on the back of the reading defeat. A good win would send them into the ManU game on a high, full of confidence. On the other hand of course, a bad result could have consequences. A player like Torres for example who has always wanted top level european competition couldn't help but be down in the dumps that his first taste of it was such a disappointment if they go out of it on tuesday night.

prendy

i would like to see riise play but at left midfield.he can attack but also double up on ronaldo. also i think mascherano has to be on top form to stop their midfield going forward.