Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Paul Tergat

Absolutely cracking result - it's like a home game now playing at Scouse...


Evra, Rio, Vidic, Anderson (first half - thought the booking hung over him too much in 2nd half) and hargreaves had great games!

VDS looked real dodgy for some reason, dunno what was up with him. Ronaldo had a disappointing game too. Rooney challenged every header and won some he had no right to. Tevez was a machine, constantly snapping at defenders and winning it back for us.

We failed to keep the ball in the 2nd half which was little disappointing, just needed a cool head (scholes like) to put their foot on the ball and put some passes together, we drew them onto us but our defence (VDS excluded) contained them brilliantly!

Grinding out another result in a very even game, 'smash and grab' stuff...remember before the game there was a lot of talk of championship winning form/getting results when not playing too well. Why we're CHAMPIONS!

Liverpool didn't really threaten much and when Crouch came on the amount of long hoofs up field was sickening.

thought we had some harsh yellows in the first half too but doesn't matter now i guess we have the 3 pts in the bag....always next year scousers!

Sizzler

Xavi6 wrote: »

Dirk Kuyt. Good lord he is woeful. Easily the worst player on show today. Runs around like a headless chicken, has no touch, is predictable on the ball and above all never looks like scoring. Vidic and Ferdinand were always going to have a field day with him and as a result.

You know mate, I said the same thing last week on the Liverpool thread and I was accused of being a troll by that dude Mr.Alan, so I feel somewhat vindicated by your comments I am struggling to name a team in the top 10 in the premiership that would be Kuyt would start a game in, but hey its none of my business really, I'm just glad Kuyt isnt in my one!
I keep being reminded of all the hard work he puts in and he does a "great job" up front etc. The guy is a striker though, so those arguments are a LOB. He's just not good enough for a top side, sorry.

Back to today, Rafa just cant get it against Fergie can he
Hargreaves and Anderson ran Gerrard off the ball and Rio had the measure of Torres. It was sticking out like a sore mickey that if those 2 lads were contained then that was half the battle and so it proved to be.

I know Rio got MOTM on Sky but I have to say Anderson was immense today and he was a star in midfield for Utd.

Pompey / Everton / Man City on same points as the' pool, so I presume they are title challengers too ....they don't even have Torres

Unearthly

I'm officially writing Liverpool out of the race. They have to go to OT, Stamford Bridge and Emirates and I see that as 3 defeats.

All my opinion of course, but I see the gap getting wider rather than smaller.

~Rebel~

Im a saaad panda.

Very disappointing game today. Neither team looked great to be honest, though I was impressed by Evra and Hargreaves.

All in all was a very tight messy game, predictably enough with a winner from a set piece. Liverpool looked very toothless today, Torres was totally marked out of the game and Kuyt had one of his worst ever performances. It actually looked like United were letting him get on the ball so he could break down our moves. After about ten mins i was thinking Babel would have been a better choice up front with Torres. Was obviously not going ot be Kuyt's day. Kewell had a mare of a first half as well, copped himself on a bit in the second for the 15mins he was on. Riise again did his thing of blasting a shot high and wide whenever he got a chance, regardless how many pool players were around.

For the second half United did what they needed to do, which wasn't really all that much.

I thought today might finally have been a good quality cracker of a game. I was very wrong.

Mr.Nice Guy

Damn you Rooney you blew my 2-0 prediction! Don't know how he missed that sitter.

Anyways great result by the mighty Man U today. Was there a fire drill called near the end of the match? I've never seen a stadium empty so fast.

I hear the Liverpool board will be meeting Rafa Benitez very soon. Top of their list of questions is what happened to Fernando Torres. Not to worry though as he was found safe and sound after the game - he was in Rio Ferdinand's pocket all along.

Like I said about Liverpool, they are a glorified cup team. No consistency, no bottle and no idea. Nine points behind Utd already.

That's why we're champs. That's why you're chumps.

dc69

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

That's why we're champs. That's why you're chumps.

United having more money to spend than any other team bar chelsea over the last 8 years is why your champs.all comes down to the green stuff,hopefully hicks and gilette will open up

justfortherecor

dc69 wrote: »

United having more money to spend than any other team bar chelsea over the last 8 years is why your champs.all comes down to the green stuff,hopefully hicks and gilette will open up

All comes down to results like today actually. Liverpool haven't exactly been paupers in the transfer markets recently.

Mr Alan

Disappointing result.

Kuyt and Kewell were muck. Both teams pretty much cancelled eachother out and Utd got the piece of luck needed for them to win the game. Fair play. Gerrard was good first half. Ronaldo was muck the whole time and his diving is a joke. Evra was good as was Anderson. Hargreaves and Mascherano both had decent games too.

As i said both teams cancelled eachother out, shame the luck didnt fall our way

Still think we can mount a title challenge, one decent run and we are in it, if anything today showed how little there is between the teams at the top.

Homerjay - you owe me €20.

kryogen

great result, easy win really, fortress anfield?? not for united obviously! so where were your great backbone today? Reina, Carra, Gerrard and torres? did torres take a quick flight back to spain for the second half??? only spolier was arsenal schooling chelsea, a draw there would have been perfect....

its not the about spending the most money, its about identifying real talent and potential and recruiting that or getting a few good homegrown players through the ranks, united have done both...... people have been slating kakas performances this season (foolishly) and to be honest if you watch him and messi play week in week out over a season there isnt much of a gap between them and ronaldo.

will united win the league this season? that depends heavily on whether arsenal have consistency or not i think. but liverpool can at last go after their comfort zone competitions i.e. cups

~Rebel~

kryogen wrote:

great result, easy win really, fortress anfield?? not for united obviously! so where were your great backbone today? Reina, Carra, Gerrard and torres? did torres take a quick flight back to spain for the second half??? only spolier was arsenal schooling chelsea, a draw there would have been perfect....

its not the about spending the most money, its about identifying real talent and potential and recruiting that or getting a few good homegrown players through the ranks, united have done both...... people have been slating kakas performances this season (foolishly) and to be honest if you watch him and messi play week in week out over a season there isnt much of a gap between them and ronaldo.

will united win the league this season? that depends heavily on whether arsenal have consistency or not i think. but liverpool can at last go after their comfort zone competitions i.e. cups

Jeez you'd sware after reading that that it was a 3 or 4 nill win rather then a very tight 1-0 with a goal from a set piece and only 2 united shots...

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

so where were your great backbone today? Reina, Carra, Gerrard and torres? did torres take a quick flight back to spain for the second half???

Gerrard,Reina,carra and torres dont deserve stick for their performance today, sure Torres had a quiet second half but that happens sometimes, no big deal. If you are saying that is not a class spine to any team, you are wrong my friend.

Royale with Cheese

Way to go pool, roll over and let united f*ck you up the arse, again

DSB

Will Liverpool fans ever admit that United are just a far superior team?

~Rebel~

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Way to go pool, roll over and let united f*ck you up the arse, again

...christ, was i watching a different match to you and kryogen? I saw a fairly poor, tight, messy game, with neither side playing as well as they could and United getting a goal from a set piece with 1 or thier 2 shots over the whole game. Liverpool on the other hand had tonnes of shots, but they weren't good enough. Pool saeriously missed proper wing play and Kuyt was the worst i've ever seen him which made Torres job impossible.

p.s Is there some story behind VDS performance? Never seen anything like that, he's usually quite consistent, but today..

Mr Alan

DSB wrote: »

Will Liverpool fans ever admit that United are just a far superior team?

Utd are better than us at the minute,stronger squad, no difference in the first 11 imo.

And the quality in the squad gap, is getting smaller.

Royale with Cheese

~Rebel~ wrote: »

...christ, was i watching a different match to you and kryogen?

I didn't actually see the game, my point is that you lost to United, again. I've give up hope of Pool ever taking points off United. I don't care if it was tight or you deserved a point etc. You didn't get one, which is all that matters in the end.

Peyton Manning

Ah Mr. Alan.

Just face it, Manchester United are superior to your beloved Liverpool, both full team and starting 11.

Its a fact, you cant argue with facts.

Mr Alan

Full team-Yes
Starting 11-No

and i dont see how it could possibly be a fact?!

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd are better than us at the minute,stronger squad, no difference in the first 11 imo.

And the quality in the squad gap, is getting smaller.

Reasonable response. I don't agree but at least its alot more unbiased than some of the stuff I read in these kinda threads. Like I amn't a United or a Liverpool fan. But I generally get so confused by how the expectations of Liverpool fans are. Should always be a top 4 side and anything less would be pretty disappointing. But even in the first 11 I'm not sure Liverpool are anything close to the 3 sides above them. Up front they're lacking so much and their wingers are still hugely inferior to the teams above them. They've some neat defenders although still not as impressive as United's or Chelsea's. I like the centre of Liverpool's midfield and definitely think it should be built around Mascherano and Gerrard. Alonso and Sissoko just aren't of the same class. But its definitely a case of trying to run before you can walk. Yes, Liverpool are improving as a side but I really don't understand where the idea of them ever being a factor in the titlerace was coming from. Quite simply aren't good enough. Maybe if they continue to build in 2 or 3 seasons they might get there.

semibluff

your honour - ill let the evidence represent itself . . . and ill rest my case!


btw anderson is a genius - he has the work ethic of a german, with the brazillian touches and under SAF its frightening how good he could get!

kryogen

did vds make one single save in that game? did liverpool create any actual chances themselves? no, so for me thats an easy game, if the opposition dont make chances they dont score, simple no? very comfortable performance imo

jusr saw pools record since benitez came v the other big 4 teams, taken just 15 points from a possible 63 now? does that not mean theres a gulf in class? against the other teams, in 21 games you have won 4 and lost 15...are you really saying there isnt much difference between you and teams like united chelsea and arsenal?

Tusky

Archimedes wrote: »

Ah Mr. Alan.

Just face it, Manchester United are superior to your beloved Liverpool, both full team and starting 11.

Its a fact, you cant argue with facts.

Id agree with that, have never said different and have no problem 'admitting' it.You only have to look at the result between the two over the last few seasons.

What I do have a problem with is all this 'Liverpool are ****' 'you were completely outclassed talk'. Its simply untrue, there is very little between the two sides.

Peyton Manning

Why cant you lot beat us then? How come you have only taken 2 points in a league of the top 4, despite them all being home matches, and we have taken 7? How come in a league of the top 4 since Roman Abromovic came in, United are top and Liverpool are last? How come we are potentially 9 points ahead of you? I'll tell you why.

We have better strikers, we have better defenders, we have better full backs, we have better wingers and while we may be match in goalkeeping terms, you claim your area of dominance is in midfield. Yet Gerrard and Mascherano were annonymous today and thats while we were missing arguably our best centre midfielder.

But please, enlighten me as to how Liverpool are better than us.

Peyton Manning

Tusky wrote: »

Id agree with that, have never said different and have no problem 'admitting' it.You only have to look at the result between the two over the last few seasons.

What I do have a problem with is all this 'Liverpool are ****' 'you were completely outclassed talk'. Its simply untrue, there is very little between the two sides.

While Liverpool were not completely outclassed, to say there is 'very little' between the teams is an understatement. Liverpool have a good deal of catching up to do Im afraid.

Mr Alan

DSB wrote: »

Reasonable response. I don't agree but at least its alot more unbiased than some of the stuff I read in these kinda threads. Like I amn't a United or a Liverpool fan. But I generally get so confused by how the expectations of Liverpool fans are. Should always be a top 4 side and anything less would be pretty disappointing. But even in the first 11 I'm not sure Liverpool are anything close to the 3 sides above them. Up front they're lacking so much and their wingers are still hugely inferior to the teams above them. They've some neat defenders although still not as impressive as United's or Chelsea's. I like the centre of Liverpool's midfield and definitely think it should be built around Mascherano and Gerrard. Alonso and Sissoko just aren't of the same class. But its definitely a case of trying to run before you can walk. Yes, Liverpool are improving as a side but I really don't understand where the idea of them ever being a factor in the titlerace was coming from. Quite simply aren't good enough. Maybe if they continue to build in 2 or 3 seasons they might get there.

you're an arsenal fan right?
i think our starting 11 is as good as any in england tbh, maybe thats just me being biased but i really do.
i would actually rate our squad as being stronger than arsenals, we have finished above them the last two seasons after all, and are a lot stronger this year.

Think the goal for this year, has to be in with a chance of the title for most of the season, and i still think we can do that. Our lack of strenght in depth might mean we are unable to win the league outright, but we need to be closer this year.

you dont rate Alonso!??!?!?!??!?!

d22ontour

DSB wrote: »

I like the centre of Liverpool's midfield and definitely think it should be built around Mascherano and Gerrard. Alonso and Sissoko just aren't of the same class.

I think a pairing of Macherano and Alonso would be formidable partnership.

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

you're an arsenal fan right?
i think our starting 11 is as good as any in england tbh, maybe thats just me being biased but i really do.
i would actually rate our squad as being stronger than arsenals, we have finished above them the last two seasons after all, and are a lot stronger this year.

Think the goal for this year, has to be in with a chance of the title for most of the season, and i still think we can do that. Our lack of strenght in depth might mean we are unable to win the league outright, but we need to be closer this year.

you dont rate Alonso!??!?!?!??!?!

Nah I'm a Shelbourne/Aston Villa fan. Got a bit of a soft spot for Arsenal though because they play nice football. Liverpool's squad is actually probably a little bit stronger than Arsenal's but in my opinion Arsenal's first 11 is a bit ahead of the rest of the leagues. They'd still be my favourites to win the league if they can avoid too bad of an injury crisis (I think they can manage with a small 1). But yeah I agree with you for sure that Liverpool should come closer to where they have been previously. I can imagine that being 4th place but without that gap there was previous between 2nd place and 3rd. Wouldn't rule Chelsea out of the race just yet. They've been huffing and puffing away quietly and have gotten Liverpool, Arsenal and United(that was at Old Trafford right?) away out of the way already.

Dave!

Ahh lads, stop the fightin' and the feudin'..........

Mr Alan

DSB wrote: »

Nah I'm a Shelbourne/Aston Villa fan. Got a bit of a soft spot for Arsenal though because they play nice football. Liverpool's squad is actually probably a little bit stronger than Arsenal's but in my opinion Arsenal's first 11 is a bit ahead of the rest of the leagues. They'd still be my favourites to win the league if they can avoid too bad of an injury crisis (I think they can manage with a small 1). But yeah I agree with you for sure that Liverpool should come closer to where they have been previously. I can imagine that being 4th place but without that gap there was previous between 2nd place and 3rd. Wouldn't rule Chelsea out of the race just yet. They've been huffing and puffing away quietly and have gotten Liverpool, Arsenal and United(that was at Old Trafford right?) away out of the way already.

yea . . . but . . . . you dont rate Alonso?!?!?!?!? :eek:

Mikeyt086

Once again United taught Liverpool a lesson in how to be a top team and GRIND OUT a result.

Thats what its all about come May, those games where you had 2 chances but you won. If Liverpool get good wing-backs, wingers and Agger fit then they would be a serious threat but honestly, people like Arbeloa, Benayoun, Pennant, Voronin, Kewell and the like cant play against the top sides. Eamonn Dunphy said it on the Premiership last week that only 2 players would get into the first 11 and United, Chelsea and Arsenal, and i have to agree, Gerrard and Torres, Carragher is great but he wouldnt get through Vidic/Rio, Terry/Cavalho or Toure/Gallas, and when you look at it like that, Liverpool need to be buying nothing but quality to contend.

Mr.Alan, Liverpool's starting 11 is the worst of the big 4. Im not trying to be a prick or anything but Benitez has made 1 good signing in Torres and the rest have not been what your club needs, maybe a change in manager for someone with real aspirations for a league title is in order. Although, im perfectly happy the way it is now

Mr Alan

Silly silly thing to say Mikey

Alonso
Mascherano
Agger
Babel
Reina

and also just to let ya know, Arbeloa is a quality player.
ya can tell your in trouble when you are quoting Dunphy! :eek:

DSB

Haha I didn't say that as such. I definitely don't not rate him. I'm just a huge Mascherano fan and think Gerrard is integral to everything Liverpool to do. Alonso is good but he doesn't come to the standard of the other 2 at all.

DSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Silly silly thing to say Mikey

Alonso
Mascherano
Agger
Babel
Reina

and also just to let ya know, Arbeloa is a quality player.
ya can tell your in trouble when you are quoting Dunphy! :eek:

Babel would get into the Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal teams?

Mr Alan

not saying that, but Babel>Nani.

wat that was actually in response to was Mikey saying that Torres is the only decent signing Rafa has made for Liverpool

DSB

Babel isn't better than Giggs though. But yeah I get what you were saying moreso now.

Mr Alan

Giggs is very much past it.

Unearthly

DSB wrote: »

Babel isn't better than Giggs though. But yeah I get what you were saying moreso now.

tbh as much as I love Giggsy, his form for the last year has been crap bar the odd few performances.

Necronomicon

Putting on my neutral hat, I'd have to pick some holes in the Liverpool starting 11 as well.

IMO, the only sections that don't need any touching are the goalkeepers and central midfield.

In the defence, right back isn't a real problem area with Finnan and Ardebola, but the squad is light in the centre of defence. Carragher and Agger are a good starting pair, but it gets thin after that. I haven't seen many full Liverpool games with Hyypia lately and it sounds like he's doing a decent enough job, but some more cover is desperately needed. At left back, Riise isn't quite a left-back and not quite a left-winger, nor is he good enough to be starting for a team with the aspirations of Liverpool.

I think Liverpool have a wealth of options in the centre of midfield (Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko, Lucas) but the wide areas are big problems I think. On the right, I think Benayoun is a decent enough player but not the answer. On the left, Kewell has had a decent comeback but who knows when his next injury is? Babel does look a class act, but not a left-winger as he seems to be used the most.

Up front, Torres needs a world-class partner. IMO Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch are all pretty mediocre.


I don't want to get involved in a "My team is better than your team" arguement, but I think glancing at today's starting teams, United really are a bit ahead in a lot of areas.

NotWormBoy

Reina = VDS.
Arbeloa > Brown (though not by much)
Hyypia <<< Ferdinand.
Carragher = Vidic
Riise <<< Evra.
Benayoun << Ronaldo.
Gerrard > Anderson (even so, today Gerrard was anonymous).
Mascherano > Hargreaves (but only just).
Kewell < Giggs.
Torres = Rooney.
Kuyt <<< Tevez.

Thats today's lineup. And I'm a Pool fan saying it. United have greater quality in terms of individual players over the park - and tend to get it out of them when it matters. They also played far better as a team today.

bucks73

Archimedes wrote: »

Why cant you lot beat us then? How come you have only taken 2 points in a league of the top 4, despite them all being home matches, and we have taken 7?

Sky Sports threw up a mini table of games/points for matches between the top four since August 2004 and it read:

United 38pts
Chelsea 37pts
Arsenal 27pts
Pool 15pts

Unitil that trend changes, and it certainly doesnt appear to be happening this season, Liverpool will never win the league.

Was saying to a mate while watching it that whatever about Rafas decision to make changes against for games against teams below Liverpool in the table, he should be picking his strongest 11 for games against United, Chelsea and Arsenal. If that was his strongest 11 that took the field today, apart from injuries of course, then that mini table above is not going to improve anytime soon.

Im_No_Superman

Necromomicon wrote: »

Putting on my neutral hat, I'd have to pick some holes in the Liverpool starting 11 as well.

IMO, the only sections that don't need any touching are the goalkeepers and central midfield.

In the defence, right back isn't a real problem area with Finnan and Ardebola, but the squad is light in the centre of defence. Carragher and Agger are a good starting pair, but it gets thin after that. I haven't seen many full Liverpool games with Hyypia lately and it sounds like he's doing a decent enough job, but some more cover is desperately needed. At left back, Riise isn't quite a left-back and not quite a left-winger, nor is he good enough to be starting for a team with the aspirations of Liverpool.

I think Liverpool have a wealth of options in the centre of midfield (Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Sissoko, Lucas) but the wide areas are big problems I think. On the right, I think Benayoun is a decent enough player but not the answer. On the left, Kewell has had a decent comeback but who knows when his next injury is? Babel does look a class act, but not a left-winger as he seems to be used the most.

Up front, Torres needs a world-class partner. IMO Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch are all pretty mediocre.


I don't want to get involved in a "My team is better than your team" arguement, but I think glancing at today's starting teams, United really are a bit ahead in a lot of areas.

Good post I would totally agree with all your points.

cournioni

DSB wrote: »

I like the centre of Liverpool's midfield and definitely think it should be built around Mascherano and Gerrard. Alonso and Sissoko just aren't of the same class.

I have said it for years... Gerrard is one of the most overrated players I think I have ever come across. Yes he is a good player, better than your average Premiership midfielder, but definately not world class. Granted, he does come up with some very important goals and works like mad, but his all round contributions and consistancy is average at best.

Some of his passing for a midfielder is very very poor. He is far too direct playing ridiculous balls that usually end up going into touch. Wasteful is not the word for him and I believe he is holding Liverpool back from becoming one of the top sides.

Great teams play with patience, see Milan, Barca... Anyone! Gerrard does not have the discipline to play in that fashion. Which is why I think that Alonso and Mascherano would be a much more suitable pairing in Liverpool's midfield. Alonso is, in my opinion a far better player than Gerrard, far more creative and has all the attributes Gerrard doesn't have. The only thing he lacks is the aggression that Gerrard plays with which Mascherano more than makes up for which is why I think that Alonso-Mascherano partnership would work.

Anyone of the same opinion?

On United, I'm obviously delighted with the win. Which is all that mattered today. Very pleased with the performance of the United lads very disciplined and professional. Ferdinand and Vidic were absolute rocks at the back, Evra was equally menacing, while attacking and defending. Anderson and Hargreaves had superb games in midfield. Anderson looks like a proper player. What a performance from a 19 year old, he has it all. I think Gerrard is still looking for directions out of his pocket. Tevez and Rooney were a constant thorn in Liverpools side all game long and worked their socks off. great to see Tevez score, he really deserved that goal for all the work he put in. Pity Rooney couldn't make it two in the second half though...

Very very pleased. If United continue to play as they are at the moment I think that Arsenal will eventually fall away, I don't think Chelsea or Liverpool will have it in them to get the title this season.

Mr Alan

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I have said it for years... Gerrard is one of the most overrated players I think I have ever come across. Yes he is a good player, better than your average Premiership midfielder, but definately not world class. Granted, he does come up with some very important goals and works like mad, but his all round contributions and consistancy is average at best.

Cant be arsed going looking for em, but check out his assists and goals stats for this year, the lad is class.

DSB

NotWormBoy wrote: »

Reina = VDS.
Arbeloa > Brown (though not by much)
Hyypia <<< Ferdinand.
Carragher = Vidic
Riise <<< Evra.
Benayoun << Ronaldo.
Gerrard > Anderson (even so, today Gerrard was anonymous).
Mascherano > Hargreaves (but only just).
Kewell < Giggs.
Torres = Rooney.
Kuyt <<< Tevez.

Thats today's lineup. And I'm a Pool fan saying it. United have greater quality in terms of individual players over the park - and tend to get it out of them when it matters. They also played far better as a team today.

Torres really isn't equal to Rooney though. He is about equal to Tevez.

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Anyone of the same opinion?

Personally no, Gerrard is one of the best around and is IMO a world class player.

i definitely don't think that Alosno is a better all round player than him....Gerrard is better going forward, he's a real driving force for the team, he both scores and creates from midfield and can defend too (remember Rooney being nearly through and Gerrard - showing he has pace too - got back and stopped a one on one).

my 2c.

Paul Tergat

DSB wrote: »

Torres really isn't equal to Rooney though. He is about equal to Tevez.

going to have to disagree with this too - Torres is an asbolutely lethal striker. granted not one of his best games today but he is a classy player and IMO better than Carlos (although they are different types of players)

NotWormBoy

DSB wrote: »

Torres really isn't equal to Rooney though. He is about equal to Tevez.

Ah, I dunno now - I'm mostly judging from what I've seen thus far this year since I didn't see more than a dozen or so games (spread out over a few years) for Torres at Athletico but he's done exceptionally well to adapt as well has he has to the PL. I think his touch, pace, workrate and finishing is equal to Rooneys. Probably better on pace and finishing. Rooney's passing, vision and long range shooting is better though. Overall, I'd rate them fairly equally.

FatherTed

Difference between Liverpool and Man Utd is that besides Torres and Gerrard, there isnt much of a threat. Look at how much of that ball Liverpool had in the second half today but didnt really create anything because those two were kept quiet.

Paul Tergat

EDIT: wrong thread - meant to post in L'pool thread

Mr Alan

I think that is a lazy criticism tbh. if you take the two best players away from ANY team, they will struggle to create. take away ronaldo and rooney and Utd are average, same with Drogba and lampard, van persie and fabregas berbatov and keane, bentley and benni mc carthy etc etc etc

its not as if Crouch, Babel, Kewell, Benayoun, Alonso, Riise etc are not able to score goals or create chances.