Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Mikeyt086

Im not saying Liverpool are nothing without Gerrard and Torres, its just that they are the only players that would get into United's team.

If you look at it the other way around... Evra, Rio, Vidic, Ronaldo, Scholes, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tevez, Rooney and on his day although i think hes gone Saha would find their place in Liverpool's team. "its not as if Crouch, Babel, Kewell, Benayoun, Alonso, Riise etc are not able to score goals or create chances." it is against the big teams.

And its just me re-itterating what Dunphy said last week, my criticism was Liverpool's siginings are not strong enough to play for a club with such history and drive.

IrishMike

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I have said it for years... Gerrard is one of the most overrated players I think I have ever come across. Yes he is a good player, better than your average Premiership midfielder, but definately not world class. Granted, he does come up with some very important goals and works like mad, but his all round contributions and consistancy is average at best.

Some of his passing for a midfielder is very very poor. He is far too direct playing ridiculous balls that usually end up going into touch. Wasteful is not the word for him and I believe he is holding Liverpool back from becoming one of the top sides.

Great teams play with patience, see Milan, Barca... Anyone! Gerrard does not have the discipline to play in that fashion. Which is why I think that Alonso and Mascherano would be a much more suitable pairing in Liverpool's midfield. Alonso is, in my opinion a far better player than Gerrard, far more creative and has all the attributes Gerrard doesn't have. The only thing he lacks is the aggression that Gerrard plays with which Mascherano more than makes up for which is why I think that Alonso-Mascherano partnership would work.

Anyone of the same opinion?

In case you are not aware Liverpools first choice centre midfield partnership
is Alonso and Mascherano with Gerrard on the right given basically a free
attacking role. Its from that role that he gets the huge amounts of assists he
has. So to say Alonso is a better centre midfielder than Gerrard is probably
true, but they Gerrard normally doesnt play centre midfield for Liverpool under Rafa.
Oh and dear god how can someone say Gerrard is not world class.
Thats just mind boggling.
Like the foundationless crap that Dunphy would come out with!

Mr Alan

Mikey:

My comment about removing two top players from any team was in response to FatherTed who said that they are Liverpools only goal threats and liverpool would struggle without em, of course they would is wat i was getting at! as would all teams.

My response to you was a list of great signings Rafa has despite the fact that you think Rafa has only ever made one, torres.
Mascherano
Babel
Reina
Alonso
Agger
Lucas

cournioni

Mr Alan wrote: »

Cant be arsed going looking for em, but check out his assists and goals stats for this year, the lad is class.

I'm talking about his all round contribution as a midfielder. He is far too wasteful as a midfielder. You can't expect Liverpool to be a top side when you have a player who gives the ball away as often as Gerrard does playing in central midfield.

I was at a United-Liverpool match with my cousin in 2006. He reckoned Gerrard was the bees knees before the game, I told him about how wasteful he was and to watch out for it during the match. He must have kicked the ball out of play at least 8 or 9 times with no pressure on him. United had a desperately bad midfield that day and ended up winning 1-0. Some might have asked why, well after watching Gerrard... We knew why.

He hasn't changed since. Alonso is 10 times the midfielder Gerrard is.

homerjay2005

the "who would get in the others team" theme has been dominant this week big style. going on today, it reinforces what i always would have said, only 2 players would make united better. gerrard and torres. simple as that. that is what its all about. vidic, rio, evra, ronaldo, rooney, saha, tevez, would all make liverpool better in their postions. liverpool need another CB and 2 wingers and a striker. the united/pool 11 i would pick would be

van der sar or reina (both at same level to be honest, nothing in it)

neville, rio, vidic, evra
ronaldo, gerrard, hargreaves, giggs
rooney, torres.

Paul Tergat

I think that the whole debate of who would get into the other XI's team will never be agreed upon. The pool fans obv want a few more players in than us UTD fans would. personally, i would only include Gerrard/Torres in my utd team.

VDS (prob equal to Reina)

Neville Rio Vidic Evra (sensational today btw )

Gerrard Hargreaves Scholes Ronaldo

Torres Rooney

Masch hasnt shown much to say he would displace hargreaves, both teams lack a left winger so switch ronaldo to that side and play Gerrard right.

cournioni

IrishMike wrote: »

In case you are not aware Liverpools first choice centre midfield partnership
is Alonso and Mascherano with Gerrard on the right given basically a free
attacking role. Its from that role that he gets the huge amounts of assists he
has. So to say Alonso is a better centre midfielder than Gerrard is probably
true, but they Gerrard normally doesnt play centre midfield for Liverpool under Rafa.
Oh and dear god how can someone say Gerrard is not world class.
Thats just mind boggling.
Like the foundationless crap that Dunphy would come out with!

All you have to do is watch Gerrard playing for England to see how he isn't world class. Just another product of the UK's media hype machine. I'll say it again, he's a good player. Above your average Premier league player, certainly not world class.

I definately wouldn't have him in United's midfield unless we were stuck with Fletcher and O'Sh1te in midfield.

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I definately wouldn't have him in United's midfield unless we were stuck with Fletcher and O'Sh1te in midfield.

?

Who would be your 4 midfielders then?

cournioni

p_larkin99 wrote: »

?

Who would be your 4 midfielders then?

Giggs, Hargreaves/Anderson, Scholes, Ronaldo.

cournioni

For what its worth, if I was to pick a team between both United and Liverpool it would be as follows:

VDS
Finnan, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Ronaldo, Hargreaves, Scholes, Giggs
Rooney, Torres

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Giggs, Hargreaves/Anderson, Scholes, Ronaldo.

Giggs over gerrard? are you serious? giggsy has been shíte for the past 12 months now and i hate saying it but i think theres not much more left in him.

cournioni

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Giggs over gerrard? are you serious? giggsy has been shíte for the past 12 months now and i hate saying it but i think theres not much more left in him.

Are you proposing that I put Gerrard on the left wing?

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Are you proposing that I put Gerrard on the left wing?

no as i mentioned - ronaldo left (equally awesome both sides) and Gerrard right like i imagine he will be for pool when Alonso is back?

you not think that's better than playing Giggs?

cournioni

p_larkin99 wrote: »

no as i mentioned - ronaldo left (equally awesome both sides) and Gerrard right like i imagine he will be for pool when Alonso is back?

you not think that's better than playing Giggs?

I would be ok with that. He has a good goal and assist to games ratio and his wastefulness wouldn't be as much of a problem when he is on the wing I guess. But if Giggs was on top form I would definately have Giggs playing ahead of him.

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

But if Giggs was on top form I would definately have Giggs playing ahead of him.

Sadly i think that's a thing of the past!

smemon

If we look at the bigger picture (and i pulled these stats up before the match), liverpool have failed to beat ALL the big guns at home now, where really they should be looking to take all points.

Chelsea and Arsenal both came away with a point, and now Utd come away with all 3. That says it all really.

Regardless of performances or luck etc, 2 points out of 9, at home, against the big guns is not title winning form.

Flip things around and Utd have beaten Chelsea at home, picked up a point on the road against arsenal, and now beaten liverpool at anfield.

I was surprised Liverpool played a 4-4-2 today, as it was never going to work. 4 on 4, utd will take anyone in midfield, but throw and extra man in midfield and they can become over-run as utd love to pass it about and 5 men doesn't give them the time to do that.

Kuyt ended up being a loner up front and once utd went 1-0 up, liverpool had to go for it, so they had to keep 2 strikers on the pitch as a 5 man midfield would have looked like a defensive move from Benetiz.

Utd basically defended the entire second half which is unusual and uncomfortable to watch for utd fans, as we're not used to it. But the fact of the matter was VDS was liverpool's biggest attacking threat

Benetiz getting a litle c*cky imo by playing a 4-4-2 against Utd... even as a utd fan, i can see a 4-5-1 is their best formation against the big sides as it allows them to play the high tempo, high energy game in midfield and nick possession.

Perhaps he felt the players deserved a chance etc and it would add more penetration up front, but i think he underestimated the value of Anderson in utd's midfield - Andserson is not a stop gap solution or a weak link, he's fast becoming Utd's makele, vieira, keane etc..

Along with Hargreaves, Rooney and Tevez, you've got 4 bitbulls there who will fight tooth and nail for anything.

cournioni

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Sadly i think that's a thing of the past!

Me too, but he has given us alot to cheer about over the years and is in my opinion still better than Nani, and possibly Park.

Paul Tergat

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Me too, but he has given us alot to cheer about over the years and is in my opinion still better than Nani, and possibly Park.

Ha, forget about Ji sometimes with him being out, he'll increase the competition for places when he gets back...our midfield has been transformed over the space of a year to one which is paper thin to one with a lot of options.

"Park, Park, wherever you may be, You eat dogs in your home country! It could be worse, you could be a Scouse, Eating rats in your council house!"

cournioni

p_larkin99 wrote: »

"Park, Park, wherever you may be, You eat dogs in your home country! It could be worse, you could be a Scouse, Eating rats in your council house!"

Never fails to bring a laugh out of me, that chant! Heard it sang with quite a bit of gusto today...

oobydooby

smemon wrote: »

If we look at the bigger picture (and i pulled these stats up before the match), liverpool have failed to beat ALL the big guns at home now, where really they should be looking to take all points.

Chelsea and Arsenal both came away with a point, and now Utd come away with all 3. That says it all really.

Regardless of performances or luck etc, 2 points out of 9, at home, against the big guns is not title winning form.

Flip things around and Utd have beaten Chelsea at home, picked up a point on the road against arsenal, and now beaten liverpool at anfield.

I was surprised Liverpool played a 4-4-2 today, as it was never going to work. 4 on 4, utd will take anyone in midfield, but throw and extra man in midfield and they can become over-run as utd love to pass it about and 5 men doesn't give them the time to do that.

Kuyt ended up being a loner up front and once utd went 1-0 up, liverpool had to go for it, so they had to keep 2 strikers on the pitch as a 5 man midfield would have looked like a defensive move from Benetiz.

Utd basically defended the entire second half which is unusual and uncomfortable to watch for utd fans, as we're not used to it. But the fact of the matter was VDS was liverpool's biggest attacking threat

Benetiz getting a litle c*cky imo by playing a 4-4-2 against Utd... even as a utd fan, i can see a 4-5-1 is their best formation against the big sides as it allows them to play the high tempo, high energy game in midfield and nick possession.

Perhaps he felt the players deserved a chance etc and it would add more penetration up front, but i think he underestimated the value of Anderson in utd's midfield - Andserson is not a stop gap solution or a weak link, he's fast becoming Utd's makele, vieira, keane etc..

Along with Hargreaves, Rooney and Tevez, you've got 4 bitbulls there who will fight tooth and nail for anything.

As a Liverpool fan I agree with you entirely there. There's always next time and hopefully it will still matter for us in April. With a fit Xabi Alonso in a 4-5-1 we could do a lot better than we did today.

IrishMike

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

All you have to do is watch Gerrard playing for England to see how he isn't world class. Just another product of the UK's media hype machine. I'll say it again, he's a good player. Above your average Premier league player, certainly not world class.

I definately wouldn't have him in United's midfield unless we were stuck with Fletcher and O'Sh1te in midfield.

Well if we are judging players by their performances for England then Ferdinand
and Rooney are just average players and michael owen is the greatest striker on
earth. Give me a break, the English national team is a joke.
Oh and didnt Ferguson say before he is the one player he would love to have?

herbieflowers

Oh come on, Gerrard is quality whether or not you're a Man U fan (like me) or not, quit rubbing it in and trying to incite people!

FatherTed

IrishMike wrote: »

Well if we are judging players by their performances for England then Ferdinand
and Rooney are just average players and michael owen is the greatest striker on
earth. Give me a break, the English national team is a joke.
Oh and didnt Ferguson say before he is the one player he would love to have?

I heard recently that Fergusson was asked if he could have one player from the Premiership, he picked Adebayor.

Sizzler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd are better than us at the minute,stronger squad, no difference in the first 11 imo.

ROFL !

Kuyt is better than Rooney or Tevez is he?

Riise is better than Evra

Hypia is better than Vidic

Benayoun is better than Ronaldo

I could go on...but it would be just too funny.

_blank_

I'll say it again.

Anderson is a gorgeous footballer.

Sizzler

DesF wrote: »

I'll say it again.

Anderson is a gorgeous footballer.

Stevie G didn't like playing against him did he

Mitch Connor

Sizzler wrote: »

ROFL !

Kuyt is better than Rooney or Tevez is he?

Riise is better than Evra

Hypia is better than Vidic

Benayoun is better than Ronaldo

I could go on...but it would be just too funny.

[pedantic]
they don't need to be better, only 'as good as'.
[/perdantic]
They aren't as good as either anyway. However, you still have the fact teams can be better (Bolton many a season) or worse (England) then their players would suggest they should be - so it could be that Mr Alan was saying that overall, on the pitch, there is little difference in the starting 11. Still wrong, but its all opinions.

Mitch Connor

DesF wrote: »

I'll say it again.

Anderson is a gorgeous footballer.

I'm still waiting for the goals scoring and skills that were hinted at in his time with Gremio and Porto. He has been more Fabregas than Ronaldinho, if you know what i mean.

Prufrock

I think Giles is right to an extent. I mean what is Liverpools best team? Benitez chops and changes his team so much it's hard for any of them to settle. I think there is more to Liverpool than we see now in terms of winning silverware on a regular basis.

United look very good. Should be an interesting race between them and Arsenal. I think United might edge it. Just.

The_B_Man

DesF wrote: »

I'll say it again.

Anderson is a gorgeous footballer.

looks aside, he played a stormer. after a slow start, hes really startin to settle and improve a lot. I jsut hope he can keep going. It was a good battle with him and Gerrard. Gerrard made that one tackle near the edge of the box from behind and won the ball. Other than that, I cant think of when Stevie G appeared the more dominant.

There was that one yellow card incident but sky sports didnt seem to show it...

_blank_

The_B_Man wrote: »

looks aside, he played a stormer.

The_B_Man wrote: »

after a slow start, hes really startin to settle and improve a lot. I jsut hope he can keep going.

He will, he'll continue to get better too. A scary prospect.

The skill and vision of Paul Scholes, and the tenacious tackling of Roy Keane.

Fergie has picked up a real gem there.

raven136

Prufrock wrote: »

I think Giles is right to an extent. I mean what is Liverpools best team? Benitez chops and changes his team so much it's hard for any of them to settle. I think there is more to Liverpool than we see now in terms of winning silverware on a regular basis.

United look very good. Should be an interesting race between them and Arsenal. I think United might edge it. Just.

To get a proper picture of liverpool you need to steer away from giles,he has a set idea about rotation and sticks at it,just like dunphy and the ronaldo thing.Dion Fanning writes better about rafa better and makes the point that he has ten players who nearly always play the big games when fit:
reina,finnan,agger,carra,riise,
gerrard,alonso,masch,torres,kuyt.

So we can take it rafa knows his best team,he just changes formation.It isnt a two horse race yet,one or two loses and everything changes,should be a great 2nd half of the season

kida

The_B_Man wrote: »

There was that one yellow card incident but sky sports didnt seem to show it...

looks like Gerrard was a bit naughty

~Rebel~

Prufrock wrote: »

I think Giles is right to an extent. I mean what is Liverpools best team? Benitez chops and changes his team so much it's hard for any of them to settle. I think there is more to Liverpool than we see now in terms of winning silverware on a regular basis.

United look very good. Should be an interesting race between them and Arsenal. I think United might edge it. Just.

The way the Liverpool team is going though, im optimistic that we will have a very settled 9 out of 11 within 6 months. Looking at the way its going, the number of automatic starters is growing whenever someone shines head and shoulders over the competition for that spot. E.g Torres has joined in leaving the other spot to be rotated between the other 3. I think Babel will join this soon enough, especially if he can start being as effective from the start as he has been from the bench.

So that would leave a fairly stable team of players who start nearly every game if fit.

Reina, Finnan, Agger, Carra, Arbeloa, Masch, Alonso, Gerrard, Babel, Torres

Those guys soon will probably be playing every game. The odd bit of rotating will be done for Babel and Kewell, which is ok, same with the fullbacks, arbeloa occasionally playing RB and Aurelio/rise playing LB, but overall we would have a fairly stable regular main 8 or 9 players which is exactly what United and arsenal have, especially if we got someone in like benzema, Carlos Eduardo or Mancini who are of the babel WF mould.

colster

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Anyone of the same opinion?

Absolutely. Gerrard is a good player but he doesn't consistently hold a game together like a fabregas or alonso. He tries to do the spectacular too often. Some times you just need to play the simple pass and hold the game together, set the tempo.

~Rebel~

colster wrote: »

Absolutely. Gerrard is a good player but he doesn't consistently hold a game together like a fabregas or alonso. He tries to do the spectacular too often. Some times you just need to play the simple pass and hold the game together, set the tempo.

the ideal scenario is to have gerrard making to runs to be Receiving these passes, rather then trying to make them. Alonsos return will be very welcome. Hopefully he can pick up the best form he's had in the past, which he was again threatening just before he got injured.

kida

~Rebel~ wrote: »

the ideal scenario is to have gerrard making to runs to be Receiving these passes, rather then trying to make them. Alonsos return will be very welcome. Hopefully he can pick up the best form he's had in the past, which he was again threatening just before he got injured.

from Central Midfield? Who do you drop? It boils down to he or Liverpool are not at their most effective with him as part of a 2 man midfield?

colster

~Rebel~ wrote: »

the ideal scenario is to have gerrard making to runs to be Receiving these passes, rather then trying to make them. Alonsos return will be very welcome. Hopefully he can pick up the best form he's had in the past, which he was again threatening just before he got injured.

Why is that so? Gerrard should be controlling games. Gerrard has most of the qualities to be much better than he is now. He can pass, tackle and shoot but does not have the nous to control a game. Gerrard should be a central midfielder yet Pool play him up front and on the wing. Why is this?

PHB

Necromomicon wrote: »

Putting on my neutral hat, I'd have to pick some holes in the Liverpool starting 11 as well.

I said this at the start of the season, Liverpool new 5 new top class players. New CB, New LB, 2 New wingers, New Striker.

--

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ronaldo was muck the whole time

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard,Reina,carra and torres dont deserve stick for their performance today, sure Torres had a quiet second half but that happens sometimes, no big deal.

Funny difference of attitudes there.

--

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I thought Liverpool controlled the midfield for most of the game, Anderson and Hargreaves did a good job of protecting their back four and little else.

Very poor game, neither team deserved to win really.

I agree with most of that, although I think United deserved to win it really. They created two very good goal scoring chances and took one of them. Liverpool created one and missed it.

I think if you look at all the attacking players in the game, you'll find all of them underperformed. Torres was poor, as was Kewell. Kuyt and Yossi were very poor. Ronaldo was poor, as was Rooney. Giggs and Tevez were very poor. What's the answer to this?
Two excellent defensive performances by both teams central midfield. Anderson and Hargreaves did a great job stopping Liverpools attack. Gerrard and Mascherano did a great job stopping United's attack.

p.s. Mascherano was utterly unreal, did to Ronaldo what he did to Kaka in the CL final. Exact same thing happened to, the second Mascherano was no longer watching him, he did much better for the last 5 minutes, creating that chance for Rooney.
17 million for him is a drop in the ocean for his talent. If Fergie doesn't put in a cheeky bid after January 1 I'll be annoyed.

Happy with the result, but I must say Liverpool surprised me a lot. They came out 4-4-2 and took the game to United, was quite surprised by this.
That said, the reason this worked is because imo Gerrard played one of his best central midfield performances I've ever seen from him. I thought he was immense, and I think everyone by now knows my opinion of him. Won the ball back, got stuck in, played the quick smart pass. The amount of times he found somebody out wide in space was incredible. Problem was the people he was giving the ball to couldn't do crap with it. Liverpool dominated the midfield and it was because of him. If Liverpool had won the game, it would have been because of him. He can't be blamed because the rest of the team wasn't up to it.

Ferdinand and Vidic played fantastically, Torres pace couldn't do much against Rio. Evra was fantastic. Brown was poor. VDS had a mare of a game, very bad, but that happens to all of them. Either way, still think Foster would be 1st choice or at least challenging it by now.

United going forward were very poor, but how they approached the game was very weird. Very deep performance. I think Fergie's game plan was simply that the main threat was from Gerrard and Torres. Because Rafa played a 4-4-2 Gerrard had to be very disciplined and sit back. Then when you play deep, you take away Torres main talent. As such, the game needs to be streched wide, and Liverpool just don't have the talent out there. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Fergie won a tactical victory here today.

Either way, fantastic fantastic result. Roll of Christmas.

An Citeog

kida wrote: »

looks like Gerrard was a bit naughty

Anybody got a video clip of that or did Gerrard manage to find the blind spot of all those Sky cameras? :rolleyes:

It's hard to tell what really happened from a single picture but it's nice to see Anderson can hold his own in the physical stakes.

Paul Tergat

PHB wrote: »

Giggs and Tevez were very poor

don'y agree with that at all!

PHB wrote: »

p.s. Mascherano was utterly unreal, did to Ronaldo what he did to Kaka in the CL final. Exact same thing happened to, the second Mascherano was no longer watching him, he did much better for the last 5 minutes, creating that chance for Rooney.
17 million for him is a drop in the ocean for his talent. If Fergie doesn't put in a cheeky bid after January 1 I'll be annoyed.

well where would he play? him or hargreaves won't be happy being rotated/on the bench!

PHB

Don't know, but he's gona be a top class player for the future, can't have too many of them

Tevez was very poor. He scored the goal but little else. He was caught in possession way way too much and didn't move the ball anywhere near quick enough. He was the reason we couldn't attack properly imo.

kida

An Citeog wrote: »

Anybody got a video clip of that or did Gerrard manage to find the blind spot of all those Sky cameras? :rolleyes:

It's hard to tell what really happened from a single picture but it's nice to see Anderson can hold his own in the physical stakes.

like JT - interesting to see it on video - from stills not any different from Ronaldos red card earlier this season

Paul Tergat

PHB wrote: »

Don't know, but he's gona be a top class player for the future, can't have too many of them

dont get me wrong, from a utd point of view it would be great to have him but the chances of it happening are so slim, would annoy pool though if we got a bidding war going

would be very foolish of them not to sign him!

PHB wrote: »

Tevez was very poor. He scored the goal but little else. He was caught in possession way way too much and didn't move the ball anywhere near quick enough. He was the reason we couldn't attack properly imo.

he worked his arse off in a game where he didnt get that much of the ball IMO. he really defended from the front well in a game where for some reason defending seemed to be our game plan.

~Rebel~

colster wrote: »

Why is that so? Gerrard should be controlling games. Gerrard has most of the qualities to be much better than he is now. He can pass, tackle and shoot but does not have the nous to control a game. Gerrard should be a central midfielder yet Pool play him up front and on the wing. Why is this?

Gerrard Can do those things, but as Rafa said, why make him do those, when other people can do them just as well if not better (Masch at covering/tackling, Alonso at controlling play) leaving him to do what the others Can't do, charging forward, linking with an attacking trio, running into space, creating space, harrying from the front, scoring goals, creating etc.

I've said it before, and Zapp and a few others have said the same, that what would suit liverpool best with their current personnel +1 new player would be;

---

Reina

---

Back 4

---

---

Masch---Alonso

---

Gerrard
---Babel

---

NEW.WF

---

Torres

If the right player was brought in, Mancini, Benzema, Ben Arfa, Carlos Eduardo (yes i am mildly obsessed with that enigma of a player) type player then imo that would be an awesome team. As PHB said, other players are also needed for the squad, new CB, would like a top notch evra/clichy level LB if possible but Arbeloa and Aruelio are decent for the mo.

Juan Pablo

bucks73 wrote: »

Sky Sports threw up a mini table of games/points for matches between the top four since August 2004 and it read:

United 38pts
Chelsea 37pts
Arsenal 27pts
Pool 15pts

Unitil that trend changes, and it certainly doesnt appear to be happening this season, Liverpool will never win the league.

Interesting table that. And with Liverpool still having to play each of the top 4 away this season I cant see the trend changing in the near future.

Jazzy

liverpool lose cos of their inability to be creative in wide areas and generally floundering in the final third of the pitch but were quite solid defensively and all ppl can do is harp on about how crap gerrard is.
i think these ppl just want gerrard to be crap and will find the first bit of mud possible to fling at him rather then actually analyse the team / match in an unbiased fashion.

yes gerrard is a muppet, but he is also an extremely highly regarded player in the world and is constantly applauded by his peers. they aren't doing that cos they have some sort of hidden agenda, they are saying it because that is actually wat they think.
sure, hate the player as much as you want - but dont deny the fact that yes, he is one of the best midfielders in the PL.
its like ashley cole - wat a little toe rag of a nonce... hes still deadly tho

sweetie

Juan Pablo wrote: »

Interesting table that. And with Liverpool still having to play each of the top 4 away this season I cant see the trend changing in the near future.

wonder what it would be like for cup games (i know not everyone has played the same number of games)

Chardee MacDennis

PHB wrote: »

I agree with most of that, although I think United deserved to win it really. They created two very good goal scoring chances and took one of them. Liverpool created one and missed it.

.
.
.

As such, the game needs to be streched wide, and Liverpool just don't have the talent out there. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Fergie won a tactical victory here today.

i'd have to agree with that review of the game. upsettingly....

players like Riise, Kuyt, Benny and Kewell let us down yesterday, lets hope we get some width in January.

Mitch Connor

Is Pennant injured at the moment?

I am not his biggest fan, but he can, on occasion, whip a nice cross in and does offer genuine width when he is on the pitch.