Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

MrPillowTalk · 10-12-2007 6:38pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Deep back four? You know nothing about the way Liverpool play, which is about defending high up the pitch, defending as a team, attacking as a team.

I didnt say thats how they defend I said thats how you should hope they defend because if they leave space in behind Utds pace is going to do them.

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 6:39pm

How about the FA Cup final in 2006? (granted, the penalty shoot-out) He was at fault for most, if not all, of WH's goals that day...

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 6:40pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

tbh from what i've seen i think I would take lucas over anderson, lucas seems to offer both defensive and attacking qualities, while anderson is only attacking. but i haven't seen that much of either to be sure.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

LOL

p_larkin99 wrote: »

you clearly havent seen utd games this season as this statement is pure shíte. you judging him from FM or youtube?

the thing that has surpsried most UTD fans is that he is willing to defend

now i CLEARLY stated I haven't seen enough to be sure so either you're both just using selective reading or you're not the smartest...

I have seen every Liverpool game this season being a Liverpool fan, and Lucas has been very impressive. I haven't seen many full United matches, generally only highlights on MotD and while he has impressed in an attacking role, his defensive attributes have not stood out for me.

sure we'll see on Sunday...

Melion · 10-12-2007 6:41pm

herbieflowers wrote: »

How about the FA Cup final in 2006? (granted, the penalty shoot-out) He was at fault for most, if not all, of WH's goals that day...

Since the Everton game????

MrPillowTalk · 10-12-2007 6:41pm

IrishMike wrote: »

And you base this on what exactly?
Liverpool have the best defensive midfielder in the League in Mascherano.
Sissoko will probably also play which means a tackle every 36 seconds
even if his own team mate has the ball.
There will be no fluid gameplay and there will be no one destroyed on the break
as you put it.
The game will be won/lost by a goal probably from a set play.
As with all games between the top 4 it will be cagey and probably won by
either luck or a bit of magic which both teams are more than capable of.

This is basically what I said in my original post pool will most likely play Sissoko and Mascherano and just try to clog the whole game up in midfield without ever really trying to win it.

I said IF pool come on the attack Utd will do them on the break.

I also said pool will settle for a draw or try and win with a set piece ty for agreeing with me.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 6:41pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Mister consistent = Reina (see clean sheet record)
Excellent saves = Reina (probably more so than any other prem keeper)

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

Melion · 10-12-2007 6:43pm

Unearthly wrote: »

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

Where are these mistakes you're talking about? He had a howler against Everton last season and hasnt made a mistake since.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 6:45pm

Melion wrote: »

Since the Everton game????

Everton 3-0 win last season?

If so, the flapping at Ronaldos freekick which led to a easy knock in for the winner last season.

Incidentally, VDS made a good save from Crouch a couple of minutes beforehand

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 6:46pm

Unearthly wrote: »

Reina is more prone to a mess up than VDS. As for the clean sheets, yes that shows good keeping, but excludes other factors such as the mistakes he made in the games he didn't keep clean sheets, or having a good defence infront of you(like he has)

and you are right, Reina wins shot stopper but VDS wins the most all rounder. Anyway think it's quite obvious neither of us want to change keepers so lets leave it at that

so you're admitting the back 5 liverpool have is better than uniteds or that Rafa is a better manager tactically than SAF?

It has to be one of the three either Reina > VDS, Liverpool Def > Man Uniteds Def or Rafa > SAF. you're choice....

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 6:47pm

Melion wrote: »

Since the Everton game????

er...against Arsenal for Fabregas' goal? That's off the top of my head, but there were a host from last season

Melion · 10-12-2007 6:48pm

herbieflowers wrote: »

er...against Arsenal for Fabregas' goal? That's off the top of my head, but there were a host from last season

What??
How can you blame Reina for that goal?

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 6:48pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

so you're admitting the back 5 liverpool have is better than uniteds or that Rafa is a better manager tactically than SAF?

It has to be one of the three either Reina > VDS, Liverpool Def > Man Uniteds Def or Rafa > SAF. you're choice....

I think Liverpool defend better as a team. So that means Rafa is better than Ferguson on the defensive side of things. As for attacking, well who wins that?....

herbieflowers · 10-12-2007 6:49pm

He was rooted! Anyway, I'm bored of this...VDS is better all round IMO, Reina is better in your opinion. End of.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 6:54pm

If people are going to keep posting facts, can they at least make sure they're right eg. Buffon not being tall. He's 6'3 ffs. There's loads more stuff about Ronaldo aswell that's blatantly made up.

I think the key for United is that Hargreaves plays. Anderson has taken to the Premiership like a duck to water and has really made the position in central midfield his own. I think United are a lot stronger here than they were last season, even though Scholes is missing. In United's defence, a lot will depend on how Rio plays. If Torres plays up front on his own, I'm sure he'll try to isolate Vidic and get him one-on-one. If that happens, he's got the beating of him for pace, so Ferdinand will need to be able to cover. Hopefully Giggs can put in a good performance aswell. I have a feeling he'll play an important part in this game.

In short, I can't wait for this game. I think it's impossible to predict who's going to win but I have a feeling that United will lay down a marker here, if Hargreaves plays. If Ronaldo has one of his off-days like he did against Arsenal, I'll be more than happy.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 7:00pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

now i CLEARLY stated I haven't seen enough to be sure so either you're both just using selective reading or you're not the smartest...

I have seen every Liverpool game this season being a Liverpool fan, and Lucas has been very impressive. I haven't seen many full United matches, generally only highlights on MotD and while he has impressed in an attacking role, his defensive attributes have not stood out for me.

sure we'll see on Sunday...

Here he is in action against Blackburn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQqbWOgP1hM

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 7:09pm

Unearthly wrote: »

I think Liverpool defend better as a team. So that means Rafa is better than Ferguson on the defensive side of things. As for attacking, well who wins that?....

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

lordgoat · 10-12-2007 7:13pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

Maybe from some, but imo the league table in may doesn't lie. The best team wins it. Whoever manages to win it has the best team.

Unless you count la liga where they don't go by goal difference... For some reason or other...

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 7:15pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

United are a better attacking team, just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row united fans would still claim they were a better team!

Why? United are the current league champions and Liverpool haven't won the league in 17 years. United are also above Liverpool in the league. It stands to reason that United are the better team.

Who do you think is the better team?

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 7:16pm

lordgoat wrote: »

Maybe from some, but imo the league table in may doesn't lie. The best team wins it. Whoever manages to win it has the best team.

Unless you count la liga where they don't go by goal difference... For some reason or other...

I agree with that.

When Chelsea won the league by a mile for 2 years with a less attacking approach I still admired them for accumulating so many points. Best team by far in that period.

smemon · 10-12-2007 7:23pm

just annoys me that if we won the league 5 years in a row!

and that's what annoys the hell outa Man Utd fans

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 7:23pm

An Citeog wrote: »

Why? United are the current league champions and Liverpool haven't won the league in 17 years. United are also above Liverpool in the league. It stands to reason that United are the better team.

Who do you think is the better team?

i don't disagree, the stats are there but of course when a pool fan points out that reina has won the golden gloves twice in 3 years that of course doesn't mean he's better than vds there's another reason reina won the award. just one example but most united fans i know find it hard to admit a liverpool player is better than one of their own.

Finally how come when a striker wins top scorer he is the best striker but it doesnt work for goalies, double standard?

mayordenis · 10-12-2007 7:30pm

3 or 4 nil to liverpool

IrishMike · 10-12-2007 7:47pm

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

I said IF pool come on the attack Utd will do them on the break.

I also said pool will settle for a draw or try and win with a set piece ty for agreeing with me.

Please dont put words in my mouth.
I didnt say Liverpool would settle for a draw, i said they will probably play
narrow in midfield so as to dominate the centre and try and win the match
from having the majority of midfield possession. This will mean united will
have more ball out wide but sissoko and mascherano cover so much ground
that this may or may not be enough to win them the game.
How this means Liverpool will settle for a draw is beyond me?
Very hard for united to "do" liverpool on the break if they dont have the ball
dont you think?

MrPillowTalk · 10-12-2007 7:54pm

IrishMike wrote: »

Please dont put words in my mouth.
I didnt say Liverpool would settle for a draw, i said they will probably play
narrow in midfield so as to dominate the centre and try and win the match
from having the majority of midfield possession. This will mean united will
have more ball out wide but sissoko and mascherano cover so much ground
that this may or may not be enough to win them the game.
How this means Liverpool will settle for a draw is beyond me?
Very hard for united to "do" liverpool on the break if they dont have the ball
dont you think?

Im pretty sure Utd will have the bal enough to do damage but we shall see either way at the weekend.

mike65 · 10-12-2007 8:02pm

5 pages and its only Monday. Sheesh.

Mike.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 8:09pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

i don't disagree, the stats are there but of course when a pool fan points out that reina has won the golden gloves twice in 3 years that of course doesn't mean he's better than vds there's another reason reina won the award. just one example but most united fans i know find it hard to admit a liverpool player is better than one of their own.

Finally how come when a striker wins top scorer he is the best striker but it doesnt work for goalies, double standard?

I agree that Reina is a top goalkeeper and fair play to him winning the golden gloves. I'd still rather have Van der Sar at United though because I think he's the best attacking keeper there is, if you get my drift. He sets up so many counter attacks and his distribution is absolutely top class. He's also a top class keeper in the traditional sense of the word, although Reina is probably a better shot stopper. I'd still rate Cech as being better than both of them.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 10-12-2007 8:09pm

More like 7 Mike. How long were you planning that post?:D

For the game i would personally prefer to see a Liverpool win(accompanied by an Arse one too please) but thats not necessarily to say i think they will. These kinda matches are never as simple as 'our players are better than yours so we're gonna win' like everyone's been going on here, so i think it could go either way. But it will most likely be an anti climax, along with the other "Super Sunday" game.

Paul Tergat · 10-12-2007 8:12pm

Call_me_al wrote: »

now i CLEARLY stated I haven't seen (or at all to be sure so either you're both just using selective reading or you're not the smartest...

I have seen every Liverpool game this season being a Liverpool fan, and Lucas has been very impressive. I haven't seen many full United matches, generally only highlights on MotD and while he has impressed in an attacking role, his defensive attributes have not stood out for me.

sure we'll see on Sunday...

I havent seen Lucas play so theres no point in me commenting on him

you're statement on Anderson is from someone who hasn't seen him play - you made a comment based on not seeing him at all as it would be obvious to you that if you had seen him you would say he has defensive attributes too!

almost always in MOTD you won't see much of UTD defending because it tends to be us attacking teams for the majority of the game so yes ok you have only seen him attack

Statso · 10-12-2007 8:23pm

Liverpool 2-1, Torres goal to seal the deal. Arsenal and Chelsea to draw.

homerjay2005 · 10-12-2007 8:30pm

mike65 wrote: »

7 pages and its only Monday. Sheesh.

Mike.

and each page full of childish comments. it amazes me how people lose the run of themselves when united play liverpool.

jesus_thats_gre · 10-12-2007 8:34pm

Am not even gonna bother calling this one. As for the petty arguments lads, will you give it a break..

If you were gonna merge the the two teams based on who has been fit and playing all season, it would be:

Reina

Finnan

Carragher

Rio

Evra

Masch

Ronaldo

Gerard

Giggs

Torres

Rooney

Subs: Van Der Sar, Vidic, Arbeloa, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tevez.

I really rate Vidic but feel that Carra and Rio would work extremely well together. Agger would be a close 4th choice to Vidic. If Gary Neville was fit, I would be sticking him in there over Finnan.

Saying that, changing Masch for Alonso, Hargreaves or Carrick would not weaken the team in the slightest.

An Citeog · 10-12-2007 8:39pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Am not even gonna bother calling this one. As for the petty arguments lads, will you give it a break..

If you were gonna merge the the two teams based on who has been fit and playing all season, it would be:
Reina
Finnan
Carragher
Rio
Evra
Masch
Ronaldo
Gerard
Giggs
Torres
Rooney

Subs: Van Der Sar, Vidic, Arbeloa, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tevez.

I really rate Vidic but feel that Carra and Rio would work extremely well together. Agger would be a close 4th choice to Vidic. If Gary Neville was fit, I would be sticking him in there over Finnan.

Saying that, changing Masch for Alonso, Hargreaves or Carrick would not weaken the team in the slightest.

Hard to disagree with that. Vidic and Carragher is very close and my own personal preference would be for Vidic. You could even go so far as to move Ronaldo to the left, Gerard to the right and bring in Anderson in the centre of midfield instead of having Giggs in there.

jesus_thats_gre · 10-12-2007 9:01pm

An Citeog wrote: »

Hard to disagree with that. Vidic and Carragher is very close and my own personal preference would be for Vidic. You could even go so far as to move Ronaldo to the left, Gerard to the right and bring in Anderson in the centre of midfield instead of having Giggs in there.

Very fair point. Twould stick Scholes in there if he was fit and put Gerard on the right personally.

Peyton Manning · 10-12-2007 9:03pm

Melion wrote: »

He hadnt scored a champions league goal until this season, and no i wouldnt consider Kiev or Sporting big teams anymore. He has never scored against Liverpool or Chelsea(or Arsenal til this season), he has never even played well against any of the so-called top teams in the premier league.

Good players can get away even when they are being marked out of a game. If anyone is going to mark him out of this game it will be Mascherano(just like he did against Kaka). I know it would take him out of the centre but thats what im expecting to happen on Sunday.

I never said he was shít, he is horribly over-rated but not shít. And how is it being childish? He has proven this season that diving is still a big part of his game. I cant post what i would like about him because im sure it would get reported and id get a ban from here.

Nice to see youve researched your post Melion.

Hasnt scored in the CL before this season? Roma and Milan last season.
Hasnt scored against Arsenal until this season? 2 goals against them in the famous 4-2 thriller.

And as for his diving? Steven Gerrard has dived an equal amount, if not more than Cristiano Ronaldo so before you post utter nonsense like that again and make yourself look like a fool, remember that there was football before Torres joined Liverpool.

And for those picking Torres above Tevez - since when is 6 goals and 2 assists better than 6 goals and 4 assists?

smemon · 10-12-2007 9:12pm

Van der Saar

Neville

Carragher

Vidic

Evra

Ronaldo

Gerard

Scholes

Tevez

Torres

Rooney

The best 11 from both imo, incl 8 Utd players which defends my original argument that Utd have the better players.

Liverpool have a jack charlton attitude/approach in some games which works very well (high tempo, pressing high up the pitch, up and at 'em etc..), but they can't maintain it throughout a season and hence are hit and miss as they have no plan B.

Chuck in all the pressure they're under and for that reason, my money's on Utd or a draw :cool:

StickyMcGinty · 10-12-2007 9:16pm

Archimedes wrote: »

And as for his diving? Steven Gerrard has dived an equal amount, if not more than Cristiano Ronaldo so before you post utter nonsense like that again and make yourself look like a fool, remember that there was football before Torres joined Liverpool.

And for those picking Torres above Tevez - since when is 6 goals and 2 assists better than 6 goals and 4 assists?

You joking right? Ronaldo was booked for diving only a couple of weeks ago, hes a repeat offender.

Tevez has been average for united this season. Take out the Derby game and its only 4 goals this season. I'm not saying hes not a good player i'm just saying that i dont think we've seen the real Tevez yet for united.

I'm not gonna even try and call the game until after tomorrow night.

Paul Tergat · 10-12-2007 9:20pm

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

You joking right? Ronaldo was booked for diving only a couple of weeks ago, hes a repeat offender.

Tevez has been average for united this season. Take out the Derby game and its only 4 goals this season. I'm not saying hes not a good player i'm just saying that i dont think we've seen the real Tevez yet for united.

I'm not gonna even try and call the game until after tomorrow night.

take out torres vs derby and you get the same, what a stupid argument to make!

it was made on here a while back on the flip side too (to show im not being biased) where someone said to take out Torres' goals v Derby.

Peyton Manning · 10-12-2007 9:20pm

Take out the Derby game for Liverpool then and Torres also only has 4 league goals for Liverpool. If Tevez has been average, and has outperformed Torres who is the best player in the world these days, then thats hell of a compliment for Tevez.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 9:23pm

Take out the Derby, Sporting, Chelsea, Wigan, Boro, Kiev games for Tevez and I'll think you will find he has 0 goals this season

homerjay2005 · 10-12-2007 9:24pm

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

Tevez has been average for united this season, Take out the Derby game and its only 4 goals this season.

.

tevez, 6 goals in the premiership, 2 in the champions league. thats 8 goals.
torres, 6 goals in the premiership, 2 in the champions league. thats 8 goals.

and guess what, torres also scored 2 against derby.

Unearthly · 10-12-2007 9:30pm

smemon wrote: »

Van der Saar
Neville
Carragher
Vidic
Evra
Ronaldo
Gerard
Scholes
Tevez
Torres
Rooney

The best 11 from both imo, incl 8 Utd players which defends my original argument that Utd have the better players.

Liverpool have a jack charlton attitude/approach in some games which works very well (high tempo, pressing high up the pitch, up and at 'em etc..), but they can't maintain it throughout a season and hence are hit and miss as they have no plan B.

Chuck in all the pressure they're under and for that reason, my money's on Utd or a draw :cool:

Scholes left wing? Big no no

You are trying to accomodate the best players from each team but that formation doesn't suit the players

Thanx 4 The Fish · 10-12-2007 9:34pm

smemon wrote: »

Van der Saar
Neville
Carragher
Vidic
Evra
Ronaldo
Gerard
Scholes
Tevez
Torres
Rooney

The best 11 from both imo, incl 8 Utd players which defends my original argument that Utd have the better players.

Yes but of course that is your opinion and it is you who made the post to back up the other post that you made. :rolleyes: How does that mean anything at all ?

StickyMcGinty · 10-12-2007 9:39pm

p_larkin99 wrote: »

take out torres vs derby and you get the same, what a stupid argument to make!

it was made on here a while back on the flip side too (to show im not being biased) where someone said to take out Torres' goals v Derby.

Archimedes wrote: »

Take out the Derby game for Liverpool then and Torres also only has 4 league goals for Liverpool. If Tevez has been average, and has outperformed Torres who is the best player in the world these days, then thats hell of a compliment for Tevez.

first of all, how about you both read my posts properly lads. WHERE DID I COMPARE HIM TO TORRES??????????

i was talking about Tevez for united this season, i'm well aware of how many goals Torres has this season but i'm talking about Tevez and his performances.

so next time before hitting "Quick Reply" and trying to be the first poster to catch me out read the post. jesus is it collect 10 crisp packets and your allowed post in here now?

Paul Tergat · 10-12-2007 9:43pm

StickyMcGinty wrote: »

first of all, how about you both read my posts properly lads. WHERE DID I COMPARE HIM TO TORRES??????????

i was talking about Tevez for united this season, i'm well aware of how many goals Torres has this season but i'm talking about Tevez and his performances.

so next time before hitting "Quick Reply" and trying to be the first poster to catch me out read the post. jesus is it collect 10 crisp packets and your allowed post in here now?

the same could be said for what you posted!

the post you replied to was talking about tevez over torres.

and why would you take out teh 2 goals against derby? they not count?

and btw id have torres/rooney up top in the select XI

StickyMcGinty · 10-12-2007 10:33pm

p_larkin99 wrote: »

the same could be said for what you posted!

eh, no. it couldnt.

p_larkin99 wrote: »

the post you replied to was talking about tevez over torres.

wrong again, it was mostly about gerrard and ronaldo. The last sentence was about torres v tevez, but i didn't even mention Torres' name in my post.

p_larkin99 wrote: »

and why would you take out teh 2 goals against derby? they not count?

Goals againt sub-standard opposition dont weigh as heavily, obviously enough. Benayoun got a hattrick against Besiktas in the champions league too, but "ah sure it was only against besiktas". Of course the caliber of the opposition matters.

I'm a big fan of Tevez and i honestly want him to do well, but dont tell me he's been outstanding this season.

p_larkin99 wrote: »

and btw id have torres/rooney up top in the select XI

good to hear, my mouth waters at the prospect of ever seeing these two playing together up front.

Zapp Brannigan · 10-12-2007 11:16pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

tevez, 6 goals in the premiership, 2 in the champions league. thats 8 goals.
torres, 6 goals in the premiership, 2 in the champions league. thats 8 goals.

and guess what, torres also scored 2 against derby.

Don't forget Torres' hat-trick against Reading in the Carling Cup.

Chardee MacDennis · 10-12-2007 11:31pm

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Don't forget Torres' hat-trick against Reading in the Carling Cup.

no you're not getting this we're only allowed count the goals against teams united fans OK. so obviously Reading and Derby are out, so he's only scored.....

wait now i'm lost? which Torres goals count in the top scorer table?

oh all PL goals, even against Derby, FFS lads, this is why I hate most united fans....

whatawaster · 10-12-2007 11:34pm

Reina

Finnan

Carragher

Vidic

Evra

Mascherano

Scholes

Gerrard

Rooney

Ronaldo

Torres

Neville could easily slot in for Finnan, but I just plain hate the bloke. i think the front 6 picks itself.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 10-12-2007 11:35pm

Please keep it civil people.

mike65 · 10-12-2007 11:41pm

*cough*

Mike.

Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

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