Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 1:51am

VDS

Neville rio vidic evra

gerard scholes hargreaves ronaldo

rooney torres

What, no Giggs and Tevez??

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 1:53am

I know all the liverpool fans would have carragher in the first team but look at it this way he gets alot of protection from the liverpool midfield because they play so compact if you put him into the united team for rio or vidic he would be shown up

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 1:55am

Think i'd go for;

Reina
Finnan--Carra---Vidic--Evra

Masch

Gerrard----Scholes

---Ronaldo

Roony

Torres

With Agger stepping in for Carra in a year or so's time. My decision for the back was made easier by my intense dislike for Rio, and thus my inability to include him (i know a fair few United fans with a similar opinion to myself of Rio, regardless how good a player he is). Otherwise, pretty savage team i think.

On JuanVeron's point, he's only had Masch as a DMF in front of him for most of this year with Gerrard not doing a particularly massive amount of holding, playing more a normal/attacking role, and has been doing pretty fine. Maybe with someone not as good as Masch he would have more to do, but its not like we're playing a 4-7-2

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 1:56am

Hyypia had a dodgy spell when Agger first got injured but I have to say, he has been great ever since. Pretty much rock solid

He won't be so rock solid on sunday

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 2:00am

Hargreaves is better than mascherano full stop.

I think people think mascherano is better just because hes from argentina.its a psychological thing.

If united wanted mascherano we would have got him ahead of ye like we did vidic

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:02am

juanveron45 wrote: »

He won't be so rock solid on sunday

You're on a roll mate, keep it up. What else is going to happen on Sunday ? Any chance of the lotto numbers ?

juanveron45 wrote: »

Hargreaves is better than mascherano full stop.

I think people think mascherano is better just because hes from argentina.its a psychological thing.

If united wanted mascherano we would have got him ahead of ye like we did vidic

You're only embarrassing yourself.

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 2:07am

Also there was a slagging match earlier on about who has spent more liverpool or united, the first thing I would like to say is who cares? would you actually like to be a supporter of the team that spends more money.Secondly the fees touted about the united playesr are wrong

Anderson was bought for an initial fee of 8m and will rise incremently to a max of 17m depending on appearances and success and nani was also intially 8m to a max of 14m.Teves is a 10m loan for 2 seasons and then will be bought for 20m on a 4 year contract and carrick was initially 14m, a waste of money at that and can rise to a max of 18m

Di anyone see that guy benzema for lyon the other night ,I would really love if united went in for him , hes only 20 and hes class, I hope we dont draw lyon they are the only team we can draw thats any good, who do ye pool fans and other united fans want?

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 2:09am

juanveron45 wrote:

Hargreaves is better than mascherano full stop.

I think people think mascherano is better just because hes from argentina.its a psychological thing.

If united wanted mascherano we would have got him ahead of ye like we did vidic

You're contradicting yourself quite a bit here.

You said Carra looks good because of the cover the midfield affords him, and if he was in Uniteds team, he'd be shown up.

I said, yeah Masch is great, covering playing the holding role while Gerrard can be central/attacking.

You said Hargreaves is better then Masch.

Ergo, Carra behind Hargreaves would be even more successful then behind Masch, and thus not be shown up.

You cant have your cake and eat it.

And for the record, some of us are capable of watching players and coming up with our own opinions of them rather then looking at their nationality and deciding they're class based on that. I agree Hargreaves is a very good player, as is Mascherano.

You really love the old comments to incite people. Bit of a childish end to your post.

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 2:13am

I'd say Benzema would want Champions League football, and United are going to finish 20th this season, so I can't see him going to them.

Lets all be ridiculous!

Im_No_Superman · 15-12-2007 2:15am

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I'd say Benzema would want Champions League football, and United are going to finish 20th this season, so I can't see him going to them.

Lets all be ridiculous!

Best post ive seen in this absolute crazy thread!

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 2:16am

juanveron45 wrote:

Also there was a slagging match earlier on about who has spent more liverpool or united, the first thing I would like to say is who cares? would you actually like to be a supporter of the team that spends more money.Secondly the fees touted about the united playesr are wrong

Anderson was bought for an initial fee of 8m and will rise incremently to a max of 17m depending on appearances and success and nani was also intially 8m to a max of 14m.Teves is a 10m loan for 2 seasons and then will be bought for 20m on a 4 year contract and carrick was initially 14m, a waste of money at that and can rise to a max of 18m

Di anyone see that guy benzema for lyon the other night ,I would really love if united went in for him , hes only 20 and hes class, I hope we dont draw lyon they are the only team we can draw thats any good, who do ye pool fans and other united fans want?

I nearly wet myself here.

So, the first thing you would like to say is "who cares? would you actually like to be a supporter of the team that spends more money."

And then you proceed to get involved on that exact argument.

Im not sure if you were trying to be ironic, but i have my doubts...

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 2:17am

No im not contradicting myself I think hargreaves is a better player than mascherano but hargreaves doesnt play for liverpool and liverpool play a much more defensive game than united in midfield.Hargreaves is the only true grafter in the team maybe anderson as well but ye play alot with sissoko gerard and mascherano in the first 11 and all these get stuck in if hargreaves played for ye, ye would be even better.United play a more expansive that of football that leaves the defence a bit more open at the back but this slight disadvantage in our team is more than made up for in the way we attack teams

get me now

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:20am

juanveron45 wrote: »

No im not contradicting myself I think hargreaves is a better player than mascherano but hargreaves doesnt play for liverpool and liverpool play a much more defensive game than united in midfield.Hargreaves is the only true grafter in the team maybe anderson as well but ye play alot with sissoko gerard and mascherano in the first 11 and all these get stuck in if hargreaves played for ye, ye would be even better.United play a more expansive that of football that leaves the defence a bit more open at the back but this slight disadvantage in our team is more than made up for in the way we attack teams

get me now

hehe. Last time I reply to you because I have a feeling you are either a 12 year old or you are intentionally trying to annoy us. Sissoko does not feature in our starting 11, he has barely played this year. Gerrard is an attacking midfielder. That is all.

Also, Liverpool have sored more goals than utd this season so maybe we're not as defensive as you might think.

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 2:21am

Considering what position im in on the boards fantasy football league proves I know a thing or 2 about football

Im_No_Superman · 15-12-2007 2:23am

Juanveron45 for the Ireland job!!

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 2:24am

Can you outline to us a typical Liverpool formation, or the expected formation for Sunday? Please show your workings.

An Citeog · 15-12-2007 2:29am

What is it with Argentinian players and trolling?

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:29am

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Can you outline to us a typical Liverpool formation, or the expected formation for Sunday? Please show your workings.

Groblarz

Redknapz--Carragerr--Hyypiiia--Stepehen Finnan

Gerrard

Maskherano

Aloonso

Sisssoko

Traore

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 2:33am

You're missing the 7 defensive midfielders that Rafa always plays just in front of the back 12.

Paul Tergat · 15-12-2007 2:34am

Tusky wrote: »

Groblarz

Redknapz--Carragerr--Hyypiiia--Stepehen Finnan
Gerrard

Maskherano
Aloonso
Sisssoko
Traore

lmao

i hope we play against them on sunday, redknapz would be exposed by Ronaldo all game

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 2:34am

Can you outline to us a typical Liverpool formation, or the expected formation for Sunday? Please show your workings

Well seeing as rafa is mr rotation and no 2 teams are the same its kinda difficult I mean against reading he played 3 midfielders and 3 strikers and against marsaille it was different again 4-4-2.its only now torres seems to be a permanent starter

Against reading he played gerard,sissoko and marcherano anyone that thinks that gerard is only an attacking midfielder and doesnt offer some cover to the defence is an idiot

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:35am

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

You're missing the 7 defensive midfielders that Rafa always plays just in front of the back 12.

Damn. How did I miss that ? Weird...considering I almost completed this years premiership stickerbook so I obviously know a thing or two about football!

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 2:45am

JuanVeron, seriously, your posts are all over the place. Trust me you can bow to the pool fans knowledge, as well as Sissoko's rants in the press about not being played, that he doesn't play very much. For the vast majority of games this season pool have played with 2 wingers and then Gerrard and Mascherano in the center. This is a fact.

Now. Your point is that the midfielders in front of Carra stop him from being "made a show of" which would happen if he was put in ManU's team according to you. But. You also claim that Hargreaves is better then Masch. So if all your points are true, then to offer so much more protection in the center then a hargreaves anderson (for example) midifleld would, Gerrard would have to be doing an enormous amount of defensive work, to go along with his 14goals and 10 assists attacking midfield play. He's good, but he's not that good! Yeah, thankfully he adds to our all round center defence, but im not sure if he does it more then, say, Anderson does for Utd.

Maybe if you just pick one point and stick to it you might be able to make sense, but your fighting a losing battle at the moment...[condesension] posts are coming across a lil silly and childish too [/condesension]

Christ im a narky fck when im tired.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:47am

~Rebel~ wrote: »

JuanVeron, seriously, your posts are all over the place. Trust me you can bow to the pool fans knowledge, as well as Sissoko's rants in the press about not being played, that he doesn't play very much. For the vast majority of games this season pool have played with 2 wingers and then Gerrard and Mascherano in the center. This is a fact.

Now. Your point is that the midfielders in front of Carra stop him from being "made a show of" which would happen if he was put in ManU's team according to you. But. You also claim that Hargreaves is better then Masch. So if all your points are true, then to offer so much more protection in the center then a hargreaves anderson (for example) midifleld would, Gerrard would have to be doing an enormous amount of defensive work, to go along with his 14goals and 10 assists attacking midfield play. He's good, but he's not that good! Yeah, thankfully he adds to our all round center defence, but im not sure if he does it more then, say, Anderson does for Utd.

Maybe if you just pick one point and stick to it you might be able to make sense, but your fighting a losing battle at the moment...[condesension] posts are coming across a lil silly and childish too [/condesension]

Christ im a narky fck when im tired.

If you consider that narky theres no hope for me!

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 2:48am

Tusky wrote:

If you consider that narky theres no hope for me!

heh, you didn't get to read what was in my head and what i deleted before i posted!

zAbbo · 15-12-2007 2:49am

juanveron45 wrote: »

Well seeing as rafa is mr rotation and no 2 teams are the same its kinda difficult...

Slow down there turbo, here's the stats from last season...

Average Changes-per-game
Man United 3.19
Liverpool 3.19

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 2:49am

Well seeing as rafa is mr rotation and no 2 teams are the same its kinda difficult I mean against reading he played 3 midfielders and 3 strikers and against marsaille it was different again 4-4-2.its only now torres seems to be a permanent starter

With all this said, how can you say that Rafa plays with 2 defensive midfielders?

If Rafa plays 4-4-2, the midfield is usually comprised of one defensive midfielder - closing down, breaking up play - and one more advanced midfielder (usually Gerrard) who spreads the ball and links the midfield and the attack. Though Gerrard is quite handy in a tackle, Rafa rarely employs him in the traditional defensive midfield role.

If Rafa plays 4-5-1/4-3-3, he might play Macherano alongside Alonso, with Gerrard in an advanced role (almost in the hole) off of two wingers and a centre forward. Macherano is again the ball-winner, Alonso is the holding midfielder, setting the tempo and distributing the ball. Gerrard will have next-to-no defensive duties at all in this formation, instead allowed to roam the opposition's half.

In both formations, Liverpool are set up to defend from the front. This means that every player will chase and close down the opposition. Is Kuyt a defensive midfielder too?

Perhaps you are confused because Gerrard under Houllier was used as a defensive midfielder. Perhaps you are confused because unlike Man Utd's attacking midfielder Paul Scholes, Gerrard is capable of winning a ball cleanly in midfield. Perhaps you are confused because you havent seen Liverpool play. Perhaps you are confused because Fantasy Football tells you next to nothing about football. Perhaps you are confused because you are a blinkered fan who can't bring himself to credit another team. Perhaps you are confused because you simply know nothing about football.

Against reading he played gerard,sissoko and marcherano anyone that thinks that gerard is only an attacking midfielder and doesnt offer some cover to the defence is an idiot

As has been widely commented upon, the Reading game was a complete anomoly - it was virtually the first time that Rafa fielded such a formation.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 2:49am

~Rebel~ wrote: »

heh, you didn't get to read what was in my head and what i deleted before i posted!

I did. I have professor Xavier mad skillz.

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 2:54am

Tusky wrote:

I did. I have professor Xavier mad skillz.

oh...well...in that case, just ignore the thing about the ducks and the leather! Its just ah..something i saw..in a magazine. yes, that will do.

Anyway, Yaa Whooo Pool FTW \o/

Really i have no idea which way this match is gonna go, but i thinks its gonna be the first decent Pool Utd match in a good while.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 3:01am

Yeah, I think this thread might implode before kick off. Odds on these...?

VDS

Brown----Ferdinand----Vidic----Evra

Ronaldo--Anderson--Hargreaves-Giggs

Tevez--Rooney

-v-

Reina

Arbeloa--Carragher---Hyypia--Aurelio

Benayoun-Gerrard--Mascherano-Riise

Torres--Kuyt

d22ontour · 15-12-2007 3:02am

~Rebel~ wrote: »

JuanVeron, Trust me you can bow to the pool fans knowledge

That is trolling if i ever seen it tbh.

/report post , how do you do it ???

Tusky · 15-12-2007 3:04am

d22ontour wrote: »

That is trolling if i ever seen it tbh.

/report post , how do you do it ???

Its under UserCP --> Close account

quad_red · 15-12-2007 3:15am

Tusky wrote: »

VDS

Brown----Ferdinand----Vidic----Evra

Ronaldo--Anderson--Hargreaves-Giggs
Tevez--Rooney

-v-
Reina

Arbeloa--Carragher---Hyypia--Aurelio

Benayoun-Gerrard--Mascherano-Riise
Torres--Kuyt

They're the most likely selections at this point. Torres has been impressive recently but I still think Utd will win on Sunday.

Ronaldo and Vidic to score, Torres to get a late goal, 2-1 to Utd.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 3:18am

quad_red wrote: »

They're the most likely selections at this point. Torres has been impressive recently but I still think Utd will win on Sunday.

Ronaldo and Vidic to score, Torres to get a late goal, 2-1 to Utd.

Id much rather Kewell on the left but if Aurelio is fit Rafa might go for him and Riise to mark Ronaldo out of the game.

juanveron45 · 15-12-2007 3:31am

Id much rather Kewell on the left but if Aurelio is fit Rafa might go for him and Riise to mark Ronaldo out of the game

Kewell is a waste of space and belongs where dunphy said, in the dustbin

Mr Alan · 15-12-2007 3:40am

There is a thread stickied at the top of this page that might be worth a read if you plan of spending any amount of times is this soccer forum.

~Rebel~ · 15-12-2007 3:42am

juanveron45 wrote: »

Kewell is a waste of space and belongs where dunphy said, in the dustbin

care to give your reasons?

dare i say this is getting dangerously close to the dreaded T word.

Mr Alan · 15-12-2007 3:47am

shhhhh dont say it Rebel its banned! just like this Veron chap will be if he carries on as he is.

kryogen · 15-12-2007 5:05am

anytime i find myself agreeing with pool fans i die a little inside

but i have to agree that this juanveron is just a troll, you are offering no constructive opions and basically just wasting everybodys time, including your own, although maybe you seem to have a fair bit of time alone to do nothing but think up ways to stir arguements?

the thread is becoming silly as a result of this and i would reccomend that maybe we just ignore the pseudo football fan in future, im really looking forward to the game sunday, and i think as always it will be a pretty close game, regardless of the outcome i do feel that liverpool will fail to mount a serious challenge this year, although i feel that if we lose then it could dent our title hopes significantly, we need to put down a marker and show that the squad is capable of winning the league and beating the best that it has to offer, i.e. chelsea,arsenal,liverpool (derby) lol

i hope fergie will go with a midfield of

ronaldo

anderson

hargreaves

giggs

i would like to see him reward anderson for his performances and show his faith in him, i also include giggs ahead of nani as i feel an experienced head in these games is needed in the middle....... that is the only reason id take him over nani though....also i think if the game is still tight after an hour giggs can be called ashore and we can give nani a chance to run at the defence, tevez should have benefited from the rest and rooney from the run out and both should be feeling good going into the game. i just really hope i dont see carricks name in the first XI.....i may even cry if that happens

Dont be at yourself · 15-12-2007 5:24am

Yeah, I think this thread might implode before kick off. Odds on these...?

VDS

Brown----Ferdinand----Vidic----Evra

Ronaldo--Anderson--Hargreaves-Giggs
Tevez--Rooney

-v-
Reina

Arbeloa--Carragher---Hyypia--Aurelio

Benayoun-Gerrard--Mascherano-Riise
Torres--Kuyt

I don't think we'll see Aurelio starting, it's too big a game and he's too soon back from injury. If Finnan was back, Arbeloa would be ideal for left back, but I'd imagine we'll see Riise at left back and Kewell on the left wing.

Alonso is back in contention too and I can see him starting.

Reina
Arbeloa-Carra-Hyppia-Riise
Macherano-Alonso
Kuyt---Gerrard---Kewell

Torres

is the most likely team, for me.

PiE · 15-12-2007 11:44am

kryogen wrote: »

the thread is becoming silly as a result of this and i would reccomend that maybe we just ignore the pseudo football fan in future

If people hadn't quoted and attempted to reason with him the first place we wouldn't have 2 pages of innane rubbish. Should know better by now lads.

Won't somebody please think of the children! etc.

Can see Rafa using a surprising formation or selection. Maybe going 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 as above - or even using Babel and Alonso. Something silly like that which will work out fantastically well yet see Benitez still slayed in the press for rotating / taking risks where Fergi/Wenger/Mourinho would be lauded for the tactical genius.

An Citeog · 15-12-2007 11:52am

Tusky wrote: »

Yeah, I think this thread might implode before kick off. Odds on these...?

VDS

Brown----Ferdinand----Vidic----Evra

Ronaldo--Anderson--Hargreaves-Giggs
Tevez--Rooney

-v-
Reina

Arbeloa--Carragher---Hyypia--Aurelio

Benayoun-Gerrard--Mascherano-Riise
Torres--Kuyt

As a United fan, I'd love to see these formations, as I feel the game would be fairly open. Apart from Torres, there isn't really much pace in that team, whereas United have Ronaldo and Rooney along with the creativity of Tevez and Anderson. I'd be fairly confident of getting all 3 points if the teams were to line up 4-4-2.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I don't think we'll see Aurelio starting, it's too big a game and he's too soon back from injury. If Finnan was back, Arbeloa would be ideal for left back, but I'd imagine we'll see Riise at left back and Kewell on the left wing.

Alonso is back in contention too and I can see him starting.
Reina
Arbeloa-Carra-Hyppia-Riise
Macherano-Alonso
Kuyt---Gerrard---Kewell
Torres

is the most likely team, for me.

I also think that this is the most likely team. Liverpool have played well this year with a 4-4-2ish formation but Benitez seems to prefer to pack the midfield for games against the better sides. I'd like to see United start with the team above regardless and let Rooney drop back to help out in midfield. I'm really excited about this game and hope it'll be a classic but we'll probably just se something like the last few games between these 2. At least John O'Shea will be there to come in if we need a goal!

Tusky · 15-12-2007 12:17pm

An Citeog wrote: »

As a United fan, I'd love to see these formations, as I feel the game would be fairly open. Apart from Torres, there isn't really much pace in that team, whereas United have Ronaldo and Rooney along with the creativity of Tevez and Anderson. I'd be fairly confident of getting all 3 points if the teams were to line up 4-4-2.

Gerrard is mighty fast. Id say hes at least as fast as Rooney when at full pelt. Benayoun is not slow either.

mike65 · 15-12-2007 12:27pm

Quite like this

Reina
Arbeloa--Carra-Hyypia-Riise

Masch
-Gerrard--Alonso--Kewell-

Kuyt----Torres--

If Finnan is'nt back. If Alonso is'nt I'd move Gerrard central and put Yossi right.

Bench GK, Aurelio, Lucas, Babel, Crouch

Mike.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 12:37pm

mike65 wrote: »

Quite like this
Reina
Arbeloa--Carra-Hyypia-Riise
Masch
-Gerrard--Alonso--Kewell-
Kuyt----Torres--

If Finnan is'nt back. If Alonso is'nt I'd move Gerrard central and put Yossi right.

Bench GK, Aurelio, Lucas, Babel, Crouch

Mike.

Strange looking formation. Alonso always plays furthest back of all our mid fielders collecting the ball from the defense and spraying it around. Also, seeing as Gerrard is on such good form and is scoring freely, I dont think he will be shifted out to the right. If hes going to play the monster, Gerrard and Alonso it will be in a 4-5-1.

Reina

Arbeloa---Carragher--Hyypia---Riise

Mascherano---Alonso

Gerrard
Benayoun

Kewell

Torres

I have a horrible feeling that Riise will play on the left though.

An Citeog · 15-12-2007 12:41pm

Tusky wrote: »

Gerrard is mighty fast. Id say hes at least as fast as Rooney when at full pelt. Benayoun is not slow either.

I'll give you Gerrard but the same can be said of Anderson. I think Hargreaves and the United defence can match Gerrard's pace whereas Torres is a completely different challenge. I'm not giving you Benayoun though. I'm not calling him slow, he just doesn't have that blistering pace. The Liverpool defence is relatively slow aswell and I'm hoping that United's attacking players, with Rooney and Ronaldo in particular, can take advantage of this.

Tusky · 15-12-2007 12:52pm

An Citeog wrote: »

I'll give you Gerrard but the same can be said of Anderson. I think Hargreaves and the United defence can match Gerrard's pace whereas Torres is a completely different challenge. I'm not giving you Benayoun though. I'm not calling him slow, he just doesn't have that blistering pace. The Liverpool defence is relatively slow aswell and I'm hoping that United's attacking players, with Rooney and Ronaldo in particular, can take advantage of this.

But I was replying to your post that said there was no pace apart from Torres!

PHB · 15-12-2007 1:27pm

This formation I'd love to see,

Reina
Arbeloa--Carragher---Hyypia--Riise
Benayoun-Gerrard--Mascherano-Kewell

Torres--Kuyt

I'd be very confident in winning.

The formation I'd least like to see is

Reina
Arbeloa---Carragher--Hyypia---Riise

Mascherano---Alonso

Gerrard
Benayoun

Kewell

Torres

If Alonso plays there, it's a very effective formation. Liverpool will 'dominate' possession, not that they will create a huge amount with it, but they will maintain possession in non-threatening areas. It'll make the game really really tight, which is never good for United. Then they will hope for a bit of magic, probably from Torres and Gerrard.
However this formation is extremely dependent on Alonso, if Sissoko or Lucas played there, I think we'd win easily enough.

astrofool · 15-12-2007 1:34pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

care to give your reasons?

dare i say this is getting dangerously close to the dreaded T word.

Mr Alan wrote: »

shhhhh dont say it Rebel its banned! just like this Veron chap will be if he carries on as he is.

Mr Alan wrote: »

There is a thread stickied at the top of this page that might be worth a read if you plan of spending any amount of times is this soccer forum.

Either report him or not, don't be petty about it, yes he's close, but he backed it up with Dunphy, in which case it's up to you to discredit Dunphy (a hard task i'm sure).

Im_No_Superman · 15-12-2007 1:52pm

Is Alonso definitly back for the game Sunday? I hope Liverpool do go with a 442 as I would be confident of a United win but I reckon they will go with the formation PHB has said with Torres up front on his own with support from Gerrard, Kewell and Benayoun and if that is the case the game could go either way, although if Sissoko is playing instead of Alonso I would still favour United!
Ill go with 1-(Torres) 2- (Tevez, Rooney) to United.

Liverpool v Man Utd - Sunday 16th December

Comments