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Atheistic spirituality
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10-12-2007 7:55am#1OK lads first off i'm not looking for an argument, i'm just curious.
(And please don't tell me google is my friend as here is as good a place as any to get views on this).
Anyway, atheistic spirituality- is this an oxymoron.
If not could atheists here tell me what constitutes their spirituality.
Someone in another thread said atheism simply meant belief in the non-existence of God (a-theism).
They said it had nothing to do with whether you believed in an afterlife per se(iirc).
So does this mean some atheists allow for the possibility of a "spiritual" consciousness outside of the material world- an eternal afterlife even
I'm guessing not.
The two are irreconcilable aren't they?
If not what constitutes Atheistic spirituality.
Spirituality, to me atleast is necessarily immaterial isn't it and anything immaterial is unproveable isn't it so it's necessarily at odds with Atheism which relies on strict rationality.
Does that sound right to you.
I'm waiting for someone to tell me to revise my definition of spirituality
Again i'm not agitating i'm just interested to hear your thoughts on this.0
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Haha, are atheists that notorious?OK lads first off i'm not looking for an argument, Either way, I doubt there will be no argument, but the arguement will probably be among atheists.
Obviously, what I'm about to write is my own personal opinion and I can't speak for all atheists. One of the fun things about atheism is that nobody is expected to share opinions on anything.
I guess it depends on the atheist, and how one defines an atheist, and how that atheist defines spirituality.Anyway, atheistic spirituality- is this an oxymoron.
Personally, I would be inclined towards a "no" answer, though if anyone ever suggested that I was having a spiritual experience, I would be insulted.
Personally, I would define spirituality as a psychological state, probably involving ones imagination, creativity, irrationality, curiosity, and a ton of endorphins.If not could atheists here tell me what constitutes their spirituality.
As a Christian child, I had "spiritual" experiences, but since becomming an atheist, I have not had trouble experiencing similar feelings.
The closest thing to spirituality I have is probably in profound experiences of love, wonder, joy, hope etc.
The love I have for my mother who almost died giving birth to me, or the breath taking awe at viewing the sublime French Alps from an airplane, or observing the elegance of symbiosis when looking at a garden ant farm a group of aphids.
These sort of things are capable of moving me in a way that seems to be outside the usual spectrum of emotions, and they appeal to an irrational side which I allow to fester because I consider a little bit of wonder and awe to be relatively harmless, and part of human nature.
Human nature is cool.
Belief in the non-existence of God, or as many atheists would put it, simply, the lack of belief in a supreme being or god.Someone in another thread said atheism simply meant belief in the non-existence of God (a-theism).
Again, I think this is a semantic issue. Personally, I would not consider someone who believed in life after death, or the human soul, to be an atheist as they are believing in something which there is little or no evidence for, i.e they are deluded.They said it had nothing to do with whether you believed in an afterlife per se(iirc).
I think atheists tend to leave the doors of possibility pretty wide open, but one who postulated that spiritual conciousness or an eternal afterlife was more than highly unlikely, might be considered agnostic.So does this mean some atheists allow for the possibility of a "spiritual" consciousness outside of the material world- an eternal afterlife even
I'm guessing not.Spirituality, to me atleast is necessarily immaterial isn't it and anything immaterial is unproveable isn't it so it's necessarily at odds with Atheism which relies on strict rationality.
Does that sound right to you.
Spirituality, to me is a psychological state so I believe all humans are capable of it.
I'm glad you agree that "spirituality" is something that means different things to different people.I'm waiting for someone to tell me to revise my definition of spirituality
I hope this helps in some way.0 -
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Most Atheists tend to have a world view entirely free of mystical or supernatural elements.
However, it is possible to be an Atheist while having other religious/mystical beliefs.
Asiaprod and Bluewolf are both Atheists aswell as Buddhists, for example.
That's interesting.
The basis for Atheism/refutation of God is lack of evidence for God.
So to preserve the above principle any mysticism they accept would have to be evidential in
nature wouldn't it?
That sounds contradictory though doesn't it.
And Atheists with religious beliefs- how would that come into it.. now i'm really puzzled
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That's interesting.
The basis for Atheism/refutation of God is lack of evidence for God.
So to preserve the above principle any mysticism they accept would have to be evidential in
nature wouldn't it?
That sounds contradictory though doesn't it.
And Atheists with religious beliefs- how would that come into it.. now i'm really puzzled
Er, Buddhism is an atheistic religion, as is Taoism.
cordially,
Scofflaw0 -
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Er, Buddhism is an atheistic religion, as is Taoism.
cordially,
Scofflaw
Yeah fair enough.
I overlooked Buddhism because I viewed it as a philosophy rather than a traditional religion.
Not sure about Taoism tbh but I thought that had elements of worship in it as well.
Anyway just regarding atheists flirting with things like Buddhism:
Aren't there leaps of faith to be taken with Buddhism as with other mono(theistic) religions.
I know people say Buddhism has vague scientific parallels but isn't it just a more palatable sophisticated version of what other religions offer.
Apart from some genuinely good teaching isn't there a lot of mumbo jumbo there as well.
I admit I think I may have had a preconceived notion of ALL atheists being hard-nosed, evidence-demanding sceptics which probably is not the case.
They probably profess more faith than I give them credit for 0 -
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There may well be, but the one leap of faith that defines an atheist - belief in a god - is not one of them. Hence no problemo!Anyway just regarding atheists flirting with things like Buddhism:
Aren't there leaps of faith to be taken with Buddhism as with other mono(theistic) religions.
I think most atheists wouldn't consider that one has to be a hard-nosed sceptic to reject some or all of the purported god theorys - but rather share a sense of incredulity as to how anyone can.I admit I think I may have had a preconceived notion of ALL atheists being hard-nosed, evidence-demanding sceptics which probably is not the case. 0 -
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I am an athiest, however I do feel I have a spiritual side - not one that would be congruent to the theistic envisioning of the term perhaps.
My 'spirituality' comes from the pursuit of my own personal advancement; the attempt to create a state of harmony between my mind and my body, a nexus of the two, if you will.
I also believe in the Collective Unconcious posited by Carl Jung; I believe in trying to keep my ego as minimally active as possible, in an attempt to allow my mind/body to interact with this Unconcious.
That's my take on spirituality - one I have come to in the last year or two - and is about as ethereal as I get; although it most likely sounds like most New Age crap out there, and has left me feeling slightly dirty :P
I suppose, however, it all comes down to how you define spirituality; any real athiest, most likely, could not be considered spiritual by any follower of an Abrahamic religion.0 -
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SubjectSean wrote: »It looks more contrary than rational. The agnostics seem to be the rational ones
On the balance of probabilities, the likelihood of there not being a God is greater than the 'true' agnostic position that there is no basis to judge one way or the other.
To say there definitely is no God (an outright atheistic standpoint) is obviously less rational than the statement 'there probably isn't a God' - but that is not the technical stance of an agnostic.0 -
SubjectSean wrote: »The agnostics seem to be the rational ones
Not so.
In some sort of utterly useless logic game where you cannot commit to any sort of belief without 100% proof then the Agnostic wins. In the real world we are fundamentally denied that degree of surety in anything. We make rational assumptions based on evidence and precedent. It is entirely rational to assume that something does not exist when there is no evidence for its existence. Please apply this rationale to any of the following statements:
1 - I am a vampire.
2 - The car hurtling down the road is a hologram so you should cross anyway.
3 - The Umbrella corporation is real, but very very clever.
4 - The universe was created by a supernatural being of ultimate power.
5 - The Hulk is standing behind you.
6 - Your mother is the reincarnation of the Queen of Scots.
Every single day most human beings, including yourself, quite rightly reject points 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6. Why are you giving point 4 special treatment? The essence of rationality is to provide correct answers. The logic of the agnostic, taken to its fruition, is highly irrational, it leads to a fundamental crippling of our ability to answer questions.0 -
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