All-Ireland League

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Well, it's being reported in the Indo that talks are at an advanced stage for an All-Ireland league.

Secret All-Ireland league talks at 'advanced' stage
Tools
By Daniel McDonnell
Tuesday December 11 2007

Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

The Irish Independent has learned that top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in the North and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition.

They have been given reason to believe that governments in the North and South would be receptive to the project and are confident that UEFA -- who have been informally sounded out -- and FIFA will give the necessary backing to the venture.

Now, they are looking to put an attractive final package together by January with the necessary levels of support and a business plan to convince the two football associations to give the green light to press forward.

Their involvement is pivotal so that any league including the island's top clubs would be capable of gaining the places to compete in European competition.

"If the FAI and the IFA want to buy into it then everyone is happy," says one club source.

"It would be difficult to proceed without their support.

"There's a bigger picture here. Certainly, there are very professional people involved in this project and there is a lot of excitement about what can be achieved.

"This could be very big for football in this country and is capable of bringing it to the next level."

The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs -- Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season.

However, those discussions have snowballed with other parties being sought out for advice and to ascertain their interest as the desire for a full time professional All-Ireland league emerged as the ultimate objective.

Tentative discussions have taken place with a television company who are willing to offer their backing to the venture.

Other league members, who were not part of the original group of six, have now asked to be kept aware of developments as the project grows wings and some have been invited to subsequent gatherings.

Regardless of the success of the plan, the 22 eircom League clubs are preparing to lobby the FAI for the re-drafting of the participation agreement amid widespread unhappiness at its implementation.

- Daniel McDonnell

New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

Which means they probably will :rolleyes:

governments in the North and South would be receptive to the project and are confident that UEFA -- who have been informally sounded out -- and FIFA will give the necessary backing to the venture.

It will need solid UEFA/FIFA backing to go ahead, but if the two associations are in agreement, I think both these bodies would row in behind it.

there are very professional people involved in this project

I wonder who they are?

Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United -- to discuss grievances regarding their participation agreement with the FAI and the wage cap thats coming into place next season.

ORLY?

And will the FAI be receptive to these grievances, or is it all hot air?

full time professional All-Ireland league
Excellent


Tentative discussions have taken place with a television company who are willing to offer their backing to the venture.

Setanta obv.

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Well, this really is excellent news altogether.

It's what football on this island needs.

ciaran76

Agree 100% but for some reason I cant see it happening.Maybe its because I dont trust the FAI

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It will happen.

The clubs want it to.

The only question is how soon.

pd101

Sounds good but how many divisions will there be?

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Well, that's going have to be hammered out.

I'd imagine anything below the top division could work something like the Conference North and South in England.

Teams like Monaghan United, Dundalk, Newry Town would close enough to be able to play in either should they go up and down.

OR,

It could be just a total Island covering league with, say, three divisions? I just don't know if it could be financially viable tbh.

This also means that the Northern Teams are finally going to have to embrace professionalism.

Summer or Winter football? My vote is for Summer tbh.

Ronan|Raven

Winter...

Eirebear

Interesting.
I always thought that this would be a problem due to the fact that clubs would be effectively halving their european places. Especially considering the new CL lay out that means there is a bigger chance of qualification to the actual tournament.

other than that it is a fantastic step forward, one that should not only be good for football both sides of the border, but also in social/political terms puts the whole island into a far better light.
I only hope the morons dont ruin it. That being the FAI before it gets going OR the armchair republicans with their sticks and stones who seem to think busses are their worst enemy!

Pighead

Think the selection process for the top league should take into play previous League Titles won and also teams who play in Black and White should be looked on more favourably than others.

Just a thought.

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Eirebear wrote: »

That being the FAI before it gets going OR the armchair republicans with their sticks and stones who seem to think busses are their worst enemy!

Woah, woah, woah. The Loyalist half of the football fans in the North are hardly whiter than white angels either boss.

prendy

i think its a great idea...badly needed and will undoubtedly improve the leagues on the island.

Eirebear

DesF wrote: »

Woah, woah, woah. The Loyalist half of the football fans in the North are hardly whiter than white angels either boss.

Sorry dude...i did actually mean to type "and loyalists" into that sentence.
I do apologise

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Eirebear wrote: »

Sorry dude...i did actually mean to type "and loyalists" into that sentence.
I do apologise

Hmmm. I believe you. For now.

Eirebear

DesF wrote: »

Hmmm. I believe you. For now.

Thanks...i was all worried there for a second

In all seriousness though if it comes off i think it could be a real shot in the arm for football on the island of Ireland, you never know....people might start going to watch their local team every now and then........maybe...:cool:

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Eirebear wrote: »

you never know....people might start going to watch their local team every now and then........maybe...:cool:

Dude, it's talks of merging the league, not moving to some fantasy dreamland.

Eirebear

DesF wrote: »

Dude, it's talks of merging the league, not moving to some fantasy dreamland.

yeah, but surely the FAI managing to do something that could be good for football would involve moving at least part way to some sort of fantasy land in the first place?

ciaran76

I wonder what would happen the International teams if this did go ahead?

What I mean is would the associations still be counted as 2 seperate associations?
Or would this type of talk come futher down the track ?

Pigman II

I think an 8 team all Ireland league could be a huge success.

The format in Australia is what we should be trying to emulate. I was at a game for Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory in October and it was a great event. Professionally done match programmes, nice venues, decent football and achieveable match attendances by our standard (10,000+). These were fans (like us) who are from a country where domestic soccer has always played 3rd fiddle (even to the English prem) yet were coming out to see the games with regularity.

guinnessdrinker

I think the All Ireland league idea is a good one and it should happen. However it depends on a number of factors, including how flexible the FAI will be. They are already implementing their own plan for the development of the eircom league and may insist on sticking rigidly to it. Hopefully they will be flexible though and at least consider an all Ireland league because this can only help the standard of football on the island. It is not going to make it worse anyway.

ciaran76 wrote: »

I wonder what would happen the International teams if this did go ahead?

An All Ireland international team should happen too in my opinion. It makes sense. A larger pool of players to pick from, a stronger squad, extra support, etc.

George Best was always a supporter of this idea because its not science it just makes sense!

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Yes, the Aussie model, minus the silly franchise business.

Wellington Phoenix are the second NZ team, after the demise of the New Zealand Knights.

Nice venues you say? Who pays for them?

Decent football? Where are these decent footballers going to come from? Who is going to pay the wages?

I ask these questions, not to be confrontational, but because it is a chicken and egg situation.

We won't go because the standard is shíte, the venues are bad. Both of these things are true, to an extent, but they can't improve without money. FANS MONEY.

And on your point about attendances, well, the amount of people at Sydney FC games in the year I was there was comparible to the percentage of the population of that city attending games as currently attend games in Dublin in the eL.

X % of Sydneysiders support Sydney FC. (~10,000 from a population base of ~4 Million)

That same % of Dubliners support the Dublin based teams, or possibly a bit higher.

I think the attendances in the A-League have remained static, or fallen in some cities. Xavi6 will be along, I'm sure, to further comment.

Also, say we did "invent" A North Side Dublin team, and a South Side Dublin team. What happens to the traditional Dublin sides? Shels have been around since 1895, Bohs are around a long time, Rovers too and SPA. What happens to the current supporters of the Irish Football Leagues? Who will we support, because, as I have said many, many times on here, it'll be a cold day when a pig flies in hell that I support any Shelhemians, Shamrock Athletic or Dublin United.

There was already a team "invented" to try and capture the imagination of the Dublin public, with no ties to one of the "tradtitional" teams, that being Dublin City. They went out of business after a few seasons. Because of lack of support.

It is going to take some radical thinking to get the Irish people to support domestic soccer, for sure, but disregarding the current fans is certainly not the way to go.

OhNoYouDidn't

the indo would be far from credible when it comes to domestic football. there is no way talks would be as advances as they are claiming and not a whisper.

large pinch of salt.

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OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

the indo would be far from credible when it comes to domestic football. there is no way talks would be as advances as they are claiming and not a whisper.

Just because Rovers aren't involved.

You are so bitter ONYD

Pigman II

Well I was talking more from the point of smaller league sizes rather than their franchising system. The worst thing we could do is integrate the two leagues and have a 20 team top division full of crud. I personally feel that only 8 REAL professional teams can be supported in this country and that is the number that should be used in a top division.

The way forward for us is definetly with the clubs that exist rather than franchises. I definetly have no intention of giving up Bohemians to support Dublin United or whomever!

BTW Wellington has a population of around 400,000 and is a rugby mad city. So to to get 10,000 out to watch an "invented" football team shows there's potential everywhere. I guess that was the point I was making. With clubs support already existing in this country we'd be mad to discard it. We should instead build on it.

OhNoYouDidn't

DesF wrote: »

Just because Rovers aren't involved.

You are so bitter ONYD

How could Rovers not be involved? The Rovers Linfield 'Old Firm' is key to the whole thing.

An unsourced story from the indo sports desk. Lets see who follows up with it.

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Pigman II wrote: »

BTW Wellington has a population of around 400,000 and is a rugby mad city. So to to get 10,000 out to watch an "invented" football team shows there's potential everywhere.

There is no way on god's green earth Wellington are getting 10k to matches. No way.

Another article that addresses some of your other points.

All Ireland league may bring brighter future

By Daniel McDonnell
Tuesday December 11 2007

IT appears as though the repeated assertions this time last year that domestic football was at a crossroads were wide of the mark. Only now, 12months on, do the seriously big decisions now lie on the horizon.

There's a certain irony to the fact that bringing the 22 eircom League clubs under the umbrella of the FAI has merely succeeded in strengthening their relationships with each other rather than accentuating their position beneath the new authorities.

Essentially, the rank and file have found a shared affinity in their unhappiness with the governance of the new league run under the auspices of the FAI. The headings under which they are unhappy are wide ranging.

At the top end of the scale, the Premier Division clubs are unhappy with the impending wage cap which decrees that from 2008 onwards only 65pc of a club's turnover can be spent on player salaries.

This has angered some of the bigger spending clubs who believe that it is putting a limit on investment and potentially stunting the growth of those operations with ambitions of moving to the next level.

More pertinently, some believe that it will encourage a system where players receive a portion of their regular income in a brown envelope so as to avoid running it through the books, although the tax incentives available to professional footballers these days would make such a suggestion unattractive to them.

Meanwhile, clubs at the lower end of the scale are unsatisfied with what they perceive as an overly harsh and uncompromising ruling body that hand out fines for what they feel to be relatively minor indiscretions.

With all these decisions being implemented and justified as part of the Participation Agreement signed by the 22 clubs last year, there is now a unified stance that pressure should be applied on the FAI to ensure that the agreement is re-drafted.

"It has not proved to be what we expected it to be," said another source. "We had no option but to sign it at the time, there was no alternative available to us."

Elite

Yet for those elite clubs who originally met to discuss the wage cap in October, developments have accelerated to a different level. Essentially, they are well on their way to finding their own alternative.

The prospect of an All Ireland league has been consistently mooted at intermittent periods in recent years but it has always been viewed as an impossible dream due to political and logistical hurdles.

With the introduction of the Setanta Sports Cup, co-operation and understanding between interested parties North and South has grown and it is from such origins that the latest momentum has come from.

Crucially, those behind the venture believe that UEFA and FIFA, in addition to the governments either side of the border, will be willing to support the introduction of a new superleague on the basis that it would be 'breaking barriers.'

Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern has already gone on record in his desire for the establishment of an All Ireland League. Ultimately, though, they accept that the project has little chance without the backing of the FAI and the IFA.

Firstly, it is the two associations who hold the power when it comes to distributing European places. And, secondly, there are elements within FIFA who would argue that if their leagues are united then the international team should go the same way and that opens an entirely different can of worms.

But those stakeholders involved in discussions are keen to avoid that ultimatum being made. Early plans envisaged that the new All Ireland League would comprise twelve teams with regional leagues underneath while both the FAI Cup and IFA Cup would remain in situ thus retaining a degree of historical tradition.

Those ideas are not set in stone, though, with the only firm issue of agreement being that any club wishing to be in the top league should be a full time professional outfit with suitable facilities.

Those clubs in the North that have participated in secret talks naturally include big guns like Linfield and Glentoran but there are also surprise packages such as Newry City who have ambitious plans about their future which they also expect to announce early next year.

And it's within that timeframe when the real substance behind the All Ireland project should come to the fore. Naturally, there is reluctance from everyone involved to show their hand at this stage while they bid to put the finishing touches to what has emerged from their considerable negotiations. In the New Year, they aim to have something tangible to present to the wider world.

At the embryonic stage, it was the clubs themselves that were driving it forward but their contribution has been superseded by third parties who they now believe can push it through effectively after recognising the potential.

What they must achieve is the presentation of a plan that will convince the power wielders in the FAI and the IFA that it deserves their support. Or, in other terms, back them into a corner whereby the country's leading clubs are threatening mutiny unless this avenue is explored.

Even in cynical corners, there is anticipation that the climate and the expertise now exists to deliver a vision that will be capable of overcoming those afore mentioned hurdles. And bring us to a crossroads where one way genuinely points to the likelihood of a bright new dawn.

- Daniel McDonnell

©independent.ie

Pigman II

DesF wrote: »

There is no way on god's green earth Wellington are getting 10k to matches. No way.

1st home match: 14,421 v Melbourne Victory on August 26, 2007
2nd home match: 11,478 v Newcastle Jets on September 9, 2007
3rd home match: 12,127 v Adelaide United on September 22, 2007
4th home match: 10,127 v Perth Glory on September 30, 2007
5th home match: 10,560 v Central Coast Mariners on October 21, 2007
6th home match: 8,062 v Sydney FC on November 17, 2007
7th home match: 18,345 v Adelaide United on November 30, 2007
8th home match: 31,853 v Los Angeles Galaxy on December 1, 2007 (Exhibition match.)
9th home match: 8,039 v Perth Glory on December 7, 2007

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Pigman II wrote: »

BTW Wellington has a population of around 400,000 and is a rugby mad city. So to to get 10,000 out to watch an "invented" football team shows there's potential everywhere.

DesF wrote: »

There is no way on god's green earth Wellington are getting 10k to matches. No way.

:eek::eek::eek:

OK, I hold my hands up, I really do. I was wrong

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=242&objectid=10473536

Already 58,715 (at an average of 11,743) have poured through the gates.

Wow, fair play to them.

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Yeah, Pigman II, fair enough

How wrong was I? Jesus.

Ronan|Raven

Thats mad, when I was living in Wellington I went to a game and there was hardly anyone there and that isnt even two years ago.

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In Wellington?

Back then Ronan, it was the New Zealand Knights who were the NZ Team in the A-League, they were based in Auckland.

Maybe you were at a Wellington & District Schoolboy League game?

Ronan|Raven

I just assumed they were smaller players... I am nearly 89% sure I was at some game involving the NZ team in the a league playing in welly for some reason. Maybe it was just to much monteiths..

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Must have been, in the 05-06 season they played ten home games, at the North Harbour Stadium in Auckland.

Maybe it was Rugby League you watched.

OhNoYouDidn't

Can the two of you talk about what you did on your holidays via PM?

Ronan|Raven

It was definitly footie, actually maybe it was the domestic league I was watching. Either way to go back on topic not sure how I feel about an all ireland league. If it is done correctly as in not just one division then it could have potential. me being selfish I know but feck it One main division then perhaps a regionalised bottom division with play off / promotion could be ok..

OhNoYouDidn't

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

It was definitly footie, actually maybe it was the domestic league I was watching. Either way to go back on topic not sure how I feel about an all ireland league. If it is done correctly as in not just one division then it could have potential. me being selfish I know but feck it One main division then perhaps a regionalised bottom division with play off / promotion could be ok..

The A league is coming in and there are I think 4 divisions in the North.

Top Division and regionalised 3 or 4 below it and Setanta footing the bill.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Xavi6 will be along, I'm sure, to further comment.

Where's my entrance music?

Ok well as Des has said the attendences haven't really risen in the last year or so and New Zealand are having a second stab at having a team.

Basically what the future holds over here is links with big clubs in other countries with both benefiting. City have recently signed a deal with Perth Glory. Basically how it will work is that Glory will be a feeder club and City get first pick of the talent. In exchange City will send players on loan over here and play preseason friendlies in order to generate fan support i.e. people come to watch City once then get hooked, come to see the Glory more often. I expect one or two Italian clubs to take an interest in a similar project what with all the ethnic communities over here.

Could a similar project work in Irelan?

The main problem with the Oz league for me is that it's too short. It kicks off late August and is done by the end of January. I don't think current eL fans would like a season that short. I certainly wouldn't. I do agree with keeping summer football as at least that way you aren't going toe to toe with the Premiership for fans.

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Xavi6 wrote: »

Where's my entrance music?

I have the Vader music in my head.

Xavi6 wrote: »

City have recently signed a deal with Perth Glory. Basically how it will work is that Glory will be a feeder club and City get first pick of the talent.

:eek:

And suspiciously enough, you live in Perth? And you play ball over there?

Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser.

Guy:Incognito

I know it was touched on furtehr up but I thought each country with an international team had to have a league? That has far wider implications than just setting up a league and playing games. If it forces 1 iunternational team then it'll mean a joint FA, how the hell will that work? who conceeds on the decisions and effectivly merges with the other?

Mr.Nice Guy

I hope this goes ahead for the simple reason that it will be a step towards an all-Ireland soccer team which is long overdue.

MrJoeSoap

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I hope this goes ahead for the simple reason that it will be a step towards an all-Ireland soccer team which is long overdue.

What anthem?

If the potential cracks in the format could be ironed out I think an All-Ireland league would be excellent. The Setanta Cup has been a great success to date.

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Stekelly wrote: »

I know it was touched on furtehr up but I thought each country with an international team had to have a league? That has far wider implications than just setting up a league and playing games. If it forces 1 iunternational team then it'll mean a joint FA, how the hell will that work? who conceeds on the decisions and effectivly merges with the other?

Well, the FAI is, in effect, a splinter group anyway.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

What anthem?

Seansouth of Garyowen

The Sash?

Anything but that awful bilge Ireland's Call

MrJoeSoap

The Specials, Ghost Town

Guy:Incognito

HAs to be Teenage kicks. Or maybe that classic Feargal Sharkey solo number, A good heart.

Pigman II

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

What anthem?

Whipping Boy - We Don't Need nobody Else.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

I have the Vader music in my head.


:eek:

And suspiciously enough, you live in Perth? And you play ball over there?

Hmmm. Curiouser and curiouser.

Yeah I'm hoping that with a short haircut and a shave I can sneak into the under 15 trials. Do an Obafemi Martins on it.

Pigman II

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah I'm hoping that with a short haircut and a shave I can sneak into the under 15 trials. Do an Obafemi Martins on it.

Or you could glue a dead poodle to your head and call yourself Stephen Australia.

Guy:Incognito

Pigman II wrote: »

Or you could glue a dead poodle to your head and call yourself Stephen Australia.

I dotn think he hass the ass for a thong though.

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Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah I'm hoping that with a short haircut and a shave I can sneak into the under 15 trials. Do an Obafemi Martins on it.

Oh, you need to shave now?

Well done on that.

Pigman II wrote: »

Or you could glue a dead poodle to your head and call yourself Stephen Australia.

rofl

Xavi6

Pigman II wrote: »

Or you could glue a dead poodle to your head and call yourself Stephen Australia.

ROFL

Soccer post of the year easily.

KdjaCL

DesF wrote: »

there are very professional people involved in this project

I wonder who they are?

Drury in talks about all Ireland league
Emmet Malone Soccer correspondent

There was confusion last night over moves to develop an All-Ireland League as it emerged that, in addition to preliminary work by some Southern clubs to explore the possibility of establishing a 32-county top flight, a second, apparently more advanced, process is under way.

It is understood Fintan Drury, who heads up the Irish end of the British-based sports agency Platinum One and also advises St Patrick's Athletic owner Garrett Kelleher, has been working on a business plan for a league involving the leading clubs from both sides of the Border.

Drury could not be contacted for comment last night but is said to have recruited the former Derry City managing director Jim Roddy to work on the process and both men have held meetings with representatives of clubs as well as a number of politicians to gauge support for the new league.

Officials at several clubs confirmed Drury's involvement and there appears to be plenty of enthusiasm for his proposals.

It seems Drury intends that Platinum One, a company traditionally associated with player management and organising tours and tournaments involving clubs like Manchester United, Barcelona and Seville, would play a central role in the scheme.

The company would source the money to start the new league and would presumably handle commercial and broadcasting aspects of its operation.

The move has become public as club officials confirmed a second process has reached the point where four representatives of clubs in the South have been asked to approach selected Northern outfits this side of Christmas with a view to talks.

This second initiative is the product of five meetings held in Dublin over the last two months. Most have been held in the IFSC offices of Arkaga, the company that owns Cork City, and initially the group was limited to a few of the League of Ireland's big clubs but has been steadily expanding.

One of the early intentions of this group appears to have been to look at ways of challenging the league's new rules on the percentage of turnover that can be paid to players, though that move appears to have hit the rocks early on as it emerged a significant number of the clubs actually supported the rule.

Talk of an All-Ireland league proved more popular, though, and Roddy (again) and representatives of Galway United, Bohemians and Drogheda United were nominated to open talks with Linfield, Glentoran, Glenavon and maybe one other Irish League club.

The whole process is, however, still at a formative and informal stage, as one of those involved explained. "Some of the talk has been a bit exaggerated," he said. "The clubs are keen to see where it can go, but it hasn't gone anywhere yet."

While many leading clubs are clearly enthusiastic about the prospect of playing in a single league, selling the idea to the two associations will be a major challenge for either grouping.

Drury's prospects would not be helped by the fact his relationship with the FAI's key figure, John Delaney, is understood to have been strained since Brian Kerr lost his job as Republic of Ireland manager two years ago.

Previously Delaney had hired Drury to renegotiate Eircom's sponsorship contract with the FAI but it is possible Roddy, who has strong connections on both sides of the Border, would lead any talks with the associations.

Achieving recognition from the governing bodies would be critical for public funding and European football but another club official suggested yesterday the organisations might have to row in behind the initiative - whoever was driving it - if the two existing league's were effectively stripped of their best clubs.

:cool:

linfield ruled themselves out but expected really, until they made rich beyond their wildest dreams they wont piss on anyones toes.


kdjac

Mayo Exile

All Ireland League no longer on the agenda it seems. Platinum One no longer interested. This from rte.ie/sport.

Link: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/0915/platinum.html

Platinum One abandon All-Ireland plans
Monday, 15 September 2008 17:36
Plans to create an All Ireland soccer league have been abandoned after the Platinum One group revealed that they believe it is no longer a feasible plan.

In a statement this afternoon, Platinum One said that following comments by the existing league authorities on both sides of the border, it had decided to end discussions aimed at establishing a new competition.

The company has written to the clubs it had been negotiating with, informing them that initiative would not be taken any further.

Fintan Drury of Platinum One said it appeared that the existing league associations believed they were well on the way to having professional competitions that would survive into the future and as a result, it would 'not be sensible' to take discussions on the proposed all-Ireland league any further.

Drury said: 'The concept of an All Ireland Premier League emerged from the concerns expressed to us by a number of clubs a year ago.

'The alarm felt by clubs was acute but would appear to have been ameliorated in the past 10 months given that the AGM of the Association earlier this summer passed off without any concerns being raised or questions being asked by those same clubs.

'The primary motivation was to establish a new beginning for Irish football based on a sensible macro economic model with a professionally established and managed premier league that would survive and then thrive long into the future

'In reviewing matters in recent weeks it is clear that the two associations believe that they are already well on the way to achieving the same result with the existing structures.'

Same story as well on the BBC NI Sport website.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/7617457.stm