New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

_Kaiser_

R.O.R wrote: »

We've just more or less had the new car tax issue cleared up by our local tax office.

Their information is to tax any new cars now for 6 months (3 months from April) then take advantage of the lower tax rates from renewal onwards. Obviously I need to keep a look out for vehicles where tax will increase and tax for 12 months, but as most of the business is Diesel practically everything will be going down.

My new(er) one won't be - 05/06 2L Passat DSG - €590 under the current system, €600 under the new one (unless the emissions rating I got - 173 - is wrong)

Kevin Heenan

smccarrick wrote: »

What they originally said was that the reason they were unable to allow older cars avail of the new scheme was because there was no manner of accurately determining the CO2 emission levels. Most of us here now know that it no problem getting the certificates of EU Conformity that they were stating was the only accurate measure- so there is essentially no reason not to allow owners of older cars opt into the new system- which is what should be happening.

There are a few people here who have been hounding the Department- myself included, a concerted campaign really has to be made to try and bring pressure on the Minister's office over the matter.

Please- everyone- write to the Minister expressing your concern at the proposals as they currently stand, along with the conflicting information emminating from the Department- which is influencing people's decisions when its not valid information.

I wonder if it is the majority shareholder in the shambles that's currently governing our country that insisted on the clause that appears to state that cars purchased before Jan '08, or a used import first registered before Jan '08, should be taxed at under the old system. After all, those who make "donations" towards the running of the party would all probably be driving vehicles that are "slightly less than eco-friendly".:rolleyes: It would be most unfair to penalise those people for purchases they have already made

But Seriously, As smccarrick says, it looks as if there isn't a lot of difficulty in obtaining a COC for an older vehicle from the vehicle manufacturer. This being the case, those people who can produce a COC proving the CO2 emmisions for their older vehicles should be alowed to tax them on the emmissions rating if they so wish. Those with the aforementioned "slightly less than eco-friendly" vehicles could opt to stay on the old system.

It is definitely time to write to the Gorm and also the local TDs regarding this issue. After all it is going to be a two tier tax system discriminating against the owners of slightly older eco-friendly vehicles.:mad:

O7Pat

Sorry if this is simplistic -

Is the current situaton that for an imported (non 08) car after July we now do not know whether it will be vrt under the new or old system??

The_Conductor

O7Pat wrote: »

Sorry if this is simplistic -

Is the current situaton that for an imported (non 08) car after July we now do not know whether it will be vrt under the new or old system??

The current proposal is that any Pre-08 imports are to be on the old scheme, with the exception of the high emission imports- which will go to the EUR 2000 level.

Another letter to the minister on its way from me today.....

-Chris-

smccarrick wrote: »

The current proposal is that any Pre-08 imports are to be on the old scheme, with the exception of the high emission imports- which will go to the EUR 2000 level.

Another letter to the minister on its way from me today.....

07Pat, don't forget we're talking about road tax only at the moment.

The VRT proposal remains unchanged - import the car after July and pay CO2 VRT based on the new OMSPs

BNC

Thats a real pain in the a$$ if thats what they are planning.

How will that affect second hand prices of cars imported with higher co2 emissions pre- July08.

I was planning on importing an '05 rx-8 next month, are they saying that all cars imported from the uk will be taxed at €2000? If I import it before July will it remain on the cc based system post July?

For existing high emission cars registered originally in Ireland are they leaving those on the cc based system post July?

Basically what I'm asking is should I look at buying a pre '08 here or the UK? If that makes sense!!

Edit:

Just came across this on the SIMI website, interesting bit on EU law. Its the Pre-Budget 08 submission from the SIMI: http://www.simi.ie/admin/files/Budget_summary%202008.pdf

There Must Not be a two-tiered Road Tax System:

Road tax should not be structured on two tiers -a lower one for older vehicles and a higher one for newer ones. This would be illogical and would result in contributing to increased CO2 emissions rather than contributing to a reduction, as motorists will be discouraged from replacing their older vehicles. SIMI is not convinced that European Law will allow the state to levy a higher rate of Road Tax or VRT on used imports, first registered in Ireland after the implementation date than would or did apply to local vehicles of an equivalent age.

O7Pat

AudiChris wrote: »

07Pat, don't forget we're talking about road tax only at the moment.

The VRT proposal remains unchanged - import the car after July and pay CO2 VRT based on the new OMSPs

Thanks Chris,

My apols I was confusing the issues.
This is only about car tax.
Thanks

Pat

mel123

Hi There,
Is there any website at a glance will tell you how much emissions each car gives out...like i dont want to have to put in every detail of say 5 different BMW's to see each one....being lazy i know, but a list would be helpful, is there such a thing?

The_Conductor

mel123 wrote: »

Hi There,
Is there any website at a glance will tell you how much emissions each car gives out...like i dont want to have to put in every detail of say 5 different BMW's to see each one....being lazy i know, but a list would be helpful, is there such a thing?

Not that I'm aware of- at least not one that the Department are willing to accept.....

galwaytt

I just rang the Dept Environment - they told me that the announcment yesterday was not actually an.....announcement. For my 93 import, I will not be affected in any way by tax or VRT changes.

So Sayeth The Department........

BNC

mel123 wrote: »

Hi There,
Is there any website at a glance will tell you how much emissions each car gives out...like i dont want to have to put in every detail of say 5 different BMW's to see each one....being lazy i know, but a list would be helpful, is there such a thing?

Here you go, should give you some info. Its dated '06.

http://www.simi.ie/admin/files/2006%20CO2%20Emissions%20Guide.xls

Robbo

mel123 wrote: »

Hi There,
Is there any website at a glance will tell you how much emissions each car gives out...like i dont want to have to put in every detail of say 5 different BMW's to see each one....being lazy i know, but a list would be helpful, is there such a thing?

www.parkers.co.uk

Dermo123

I am just wondering about a car I imported last year and paid the VRT on and put an Irish reg on it. Now what I have not done is tax it yet because it is still in my garage and will be for another while yet.
The car in question is a 1988 Mercedes 190E 2.6 petrol Auto so it would be firmly putting out a lot of grams CO2(probably more than 225g/km).
My question is if I go to tax it for the first time after July 2008, which criteria will be applied? The cc based sytem would tax it at around €1,000. The CO2 would be €2,000. My question is should I opt to tax say for 3 months just to establish it on the CC based tax criteria or does it really matter seeing as it is already registered in Ireland.

The_Conductor

Dermo123 - I doubt that the motortax people have a clue at this stage how to treat your case. I suppose the best bet is to hang on until the guidance statement is issued on the 6th of March and give them a ring and see what they say?

galwaytt

you can sing that - they don't have a clue.

What they do have, is a meeting. Next Wednesday, to be precise, to decide on whether or not pre-Cert or older cars, will be hit by the retrospective change in the rules too, so bringing them up to the Post July figures we all know about.

DECNR are the guys, Gormless' is the man. Dublin is the place.

You have phones, you have email.
Get using them.
Now

Gatster

Who is the meeting between...if they put everything up to 2k it will kill the 'budget' performance/prestige car market in Ireland as we all know, but it seems to me that's what the Government wants....no motorists can have fun unlesss they pay ridiculous tax for sh!te (tolled) roads..

-Chris-

Let's wait till the 6th lads, we're just winding ourselves up at the moment....

parsi

This is becoming a farce.

We bought a diesel in Jan. We taxed it for 12 months due to the steep rise (to 428) on 1 Feb for 1.6 vehicles.

Now it's being mentioned that we are eligible for the 150 rate from July.

Sheesh - is it possible for them to think things through at all ?

JHMEG

parsi wrote: »

This is becoming a farce.

We bought a diesel in Jan. We taxed it for 12 months due to the steep rise (to 428) on 1 Feb for 1.6 vehicles.

Now it's being mentioned that we are eligible for the 150 rate from July.

Sheesh - is it possible for them to think things through at all ?

You're complaining because you were stupid enough to buy a diesel before July, and now the govt has thrown you a lifeline?:rolleyes:

parsi

Almost...

I'm noting that after I contracted to buy a new vehicle the Gov introduced a policy which was un-thought through in that a car
bought on 30 June 08 would be subject to higher taxes than an identical car bought on July 1.

Now it is normal enough for cutoff points in tax and cutoff dates etc _but_ this policy was not fiscal but environmental and designed to supposedly encourage folk to buy low emissions vehicles and it said "screw you jack" if you already have a low emissions vehicle... we only want to encourage folk from July 1.

No thought given to folk who went low emissions when it was neither popular nor profitable....

That being said I can't see the eur150 rate staying that low if financial troubles hit the country.

The_Conductor

parsi wrote: »

Almost...

I'm noting that after I contracted to buy a new vehicle the Gov introduced a policy which was un-thought through in that a car
bought on 30 June 08 would be subject to higher taxes than an identical car bought on July 1.

Now it is normal enough for cutoff points in tax and cutoff dates etc _but_ this policy was not fiscal but environmental and designed to supposedly encourage folk to buy low emissions vehicles and it said "screw you jack" if you already have a low emissions vehicle... we only want to encourage folk from July 1.

No thought given to folk who went low emissions when it was neither popular nor profitable....

That being said I can't see the eur150 rate staying that low if financial troubles hit the country.

I don't think the 1 Jan 08 should be a cutoff, I think opt'ing into the scheme should be entirely optional for owners of older cars. The original excuse for not allowing this- was there was no way of accurately measuring CO2 emissions- which we now know is total bull. Along with the numerous websites- EU Certificates of Conformity are widely available for vehicles as far back as 1995- so why not use that date instead? Your moaning about getting caught out in January- what about all those people who made a conscious decision to buy an environmentally friendly car prior to this date- and are now getting caught out- 1 year or 2 years previous (or imported 2002/2003/2004/2005 cars and are now in possession of an unsaleable car (well- one that has had its resale value decimated)?

parsi

smccarrick wrote: »

I don't think the 1 Jan 08 should be a cutoff, I think opt'ing into the scheme should be entirely optional for owners of older cars. The original excuse for not allowing this- was there was no way of accurately measuring CO2 emissions- which we now know is total bull. Along with the numerous websites- EU Certificates of Conformity are widely available for vehicles as far back as 1995- so why not use that date instead? Your moaning about getting caught out in January- what about all those people who made a conscious decision to buy an environmentally friendly car prior to this date- and are now getting caught out- 1 year or 2 years previous (or imported 2002/2003/2004/2005 cars and are now in possession of an unsaleable car (well- one that has had its resale value decimated)?

That's it in a nutshell. As I said it should also apply to those who went green before it was popular or profitable...

Timmaay

I agree with ya smccarrick there, my folks aren't happy that they are being punished for buying a 2l diesel in 07, gormless should have backdated it to 2005 at least. Not only have they lost out with the reduced €3k of vrt and lower road tax of €290, but if they go to sell it in 3/4yrs time, it'll be worth a grand less at least because people will buy a 2nd hand '08 with road tax of only €290 instead.

Does anyone have that link to used car co2 emissons that was floating around the forum a few wks ago? I'm pricing up an imported '01 1.9tdi A4, and want to see the differance quattro makes to it. Thanks.

McSandwich

smccarrick wrote: »

EU Certificates of Conformity are widely available for vehicles as far back as 1995- so why not use that date instead? Your moaning about getting caught out in January- what about all those people who made a conscious decision to buy an environmentally friendly car prior to this date- and are now getting caught out- 1 year or 2 years previous (or imported 2002/2003/2004/2005 cars and are now in possession of an unsaleable car (well- one that has had its resale value decimated)?

Well said. Our 'Green' ministers don't seem to be very interested in answering these questions. Hopefully public pressure will force them to show their true colours soon..

PowerHouseDan

My brother methoded to me that if my Gf bought the yaris she was waiting to buy in july she can still buy it now and claim back the diff in vrt?what is the situation with this?

The_Conductor

PowerHouseDan wrote: »

My brother methoded to me that if my Gf bought the yaris she was waiting to buy in july she can still buy it now and claim back the diff in vrt?what is the situation with this?

Its not finalised- wait until its publicly announced.

PowerHouseDan

No its not finalised at all, she just got approved for the loan, any idea when it will be announced?

The_Conductor

PowerHouseDan wrote: »

No its not finalised at all, she just got approved for the loan, any idea when it will be announced?

There is some announcement due on the 6th- next Thursday.
Apparently the motor industry have exerted a lot of pressure on the Department because sales have plummetted. They are blaming the July cut-off on these lacklustre sales. While it is true that some people are holding off- it is equally true that there are others rushing to get vehicles so they can be treated under the old scheme for annual tax purposes.

Hang-on and wait to see what the revised proposals are- they aren't announced as yet, so they are subject to revision. There is no point in doubleguessing. Its quite possible that the Department may even cave-in to other pressure groups- who knows?

bogman44

Update

===================================
New Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Motor Tax System

Mr John Gormley, T.D., Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, today (5 March 07) clarified the position in relation to introduction of the new CO2 based motor tax system. This clarification followed the passing of amendments to the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill 2008 at committee stage of the Bill today by the Dail Select Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Minister Gormley stated that all new cars registered from 1 July 2008 will have their motor tax rate based on the CO2 emissions level. The new CO2 based system will not apply to the import of pre 2008 cars.

New cars registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will initially have their motor tax charged on the basis of the existing engine size (c.c.) system. However, a low CO2 emitting new car registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will have its motor tax switched to the lower CO2 based motor tax rate on first renewal of motor tax post 1 July 2008, when the new CO2 based system commences. New cars which are registered in the first 6 months of 2008 whose tax would be more under the new CO2 based system will continue to pay motor tax on the basis of engine size (c.c.).

"I am pleased to introduce this Committee Stage Amendment which will effectively allow new cars with low carbon emissions into the new emissions based motor tax system post 1 July 2008. The purpose of introducing the emissions based system in the first place was to encourage and incentivise as many people as possible to purchase 'greener cars' Today's amendment will ensure that additional car buyers will benefit from the scheme," said the Minister.

ENDS






Media queries:
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Tel: (01) 888 2638 (direct)
(01) 888 2000
E-Mail: press-office@environ.ie
Web site: www.environ.ie

Mc-BigE

bogman44 wrote: »

New cars which are registered in the first 6 months of 2008 whose tax would be more under the new CO2 based system will continue to pay motor tax on the basis of engine size (c.c.).

so the 225Co2 figure is gone, any high Co2 emissions car bought in the first six months of the year can remain CC based, while the reverse for low CO2 2008 cars.

A Win Win situation for the Dealers. and f*ck anyone who bought a low emissions car in 2007, and before.

nice.