New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

waffler

So let me get this straight, any imported car (pre 08) will be taxed at the old system regardlesss if you purchased post july or not. What about vrt, where do we stand with that ?

-Chris-

Sorry to re-post this, but it's got the permutations in it. VRT hasn't changed from the original plan, only road tax.

Irish Cars
1) Changes to road tax only affect cars registered here after 1st Jan '08.
2) If you bought your new car since 1st January and you've taxed it already, you'll be allowed to avail of the lower road tax rates after 1st July.
I.e. if you taxed your car for a year in January, you'll get the lower rate next January. If you're buying a car off me tomorrow I'd advise you to tax it for 6 months and then when you renew your tax in August you'll get the lower rate.
3) If you're in a car that should be in the higher rate, you won't be forced into the higher rate.

Imports
1) Only cars that would qualify for a '08 plate as an import will qualify for the new road tax rate. If you bring in a '06 car from the UK it'll be taxed on the CC based road tax EVEN IF IT'S IMPORTED AFTER JULY.

-Chris-

And to be honest, I don't think anyone would be happy no matter what happens - all you lads bringing in your imports who wanted the lower, CO2-based road tax probably have second hand cars that you're going to have to try and sell before July because they would be in competition with other people's imports taxed on CO2.

Your mother/father/sister be damned, you want your import to be cheap to run and never mind what happens to their car as a trade-in.

As for the retrospectively applying the road tax arguement, I see the point and I sympathise, but you bought a car in '07/'06 that had a tax rate you were happy with and you were making your choice to help the environment. Nothing's changed for you, you're still paying roughly the same road tax as you were before.
It's only the people who ordered cars in Oct/Nov and received the cars in Jan that had the goalposts moved on them by Brian Cowen in December. Yes, the change should have been announced in July and implemented in January, that would be a much better idea, but this is a fair-ish compromise. They won't be saddled with an '08 car that has high tax compared to other '08s.

My 2c

sonners

AudiChris wrote: »

2) The only exception to the above is if you import a car that is >225g/km, if you import and tax one of those then you'll automatically be put into the €2,000 road tax bracket from 1st July.

Is this still true AudiChris? There's no mention of it in Bogman44's post.

-Chris-

sonners wrote: »

Is this still true AudiChris? There's no mention of it in Bogman44's post.

Apologies, I forgot to take that off the cut-and-paste. I understood that was to go through in the proposal, but it's not mentioned there at all.

sonners

no probs, was just trying to clarify thats all. As long as they dont try to backdate the >225 bracket I'm a happy camper anyway

Mc-BigE

I can see your point Chris, there’s a lot of pluses to this, the 1 Jan 08 to 30 June car buyer wins both ways, the dealers win because car sales will go back to normal now.
The only negative thing about this hole thing is that the pre 07 second hand market prices will(if not already) drop because in 2 or 3 years time, when good 08 cars come on the second-hand market
They will be snapped up compared to dec 2007 same car.

And to add to the mix, a person can still buy a Dec 2007 say Audi A4 2.0TDI in the UK and will pay 14% (I think) VRT compared to the same Irish car that was VRT in 2007 at 30%
This will have to have a knock on effect on the Irish pre 07 car price also.

BTW how much would you give me in a trade-in on the new Audi A4 2.0TDI (lovely car BTW except the xmas tree decorated headlamps) on a 02 bmw 320d touring 89K on the clock FBMWSH. A/Con., no leather?;)

-Chris-

Mc-BigE wrote: »

The only negative thing about this hole thing is that the pre 07 second hand market prices will(if not already) drop because in 2 or 3 years time, when good 08 cars come on the second-hand market they will be snapped up compared to dec 2007 same car.

Yeah, I don't think this is very fair, but I don't see a way around it (backdating more than a few years will cause a massive revenue loss for the gov't that needs to be made up from somewhere else - we'll pay no matter what happens).

Mc-BigE wrote: »

And to add to the mix, a person can still buy a Dec 2007 say Audi A4 2.0TDI in the UK and will pay 14% (I think) VRT compared to the same Irish car that was VRT in 2007 at 30%
This will have to have a knock on effect on the Irish pre 07 car price also.

A4 will be in 20% and therefore theoretically 10% cheaper than the equivalent Irish 07 A4, but a lot of people are wary of imported cars - you may get a car that's cheap to buy but hard to sell. I'll bet the second-hand car salespeople will play this up too.

Mc-BigE wrote: »

BTW how much would you give me in a trade-in on the new Audi A4 2.0TDI (lovely car BTW except the xmas tree headlamps) on a 02 bmw 320d touring 89K on the clock FBMWSH. A/Con., no leather?;)

[sleazy salesman mode]
Ah now, thaere's a question. If you'd have come to me a few months ago I'd have looked after you, but you know there's this whole change coming in July that'll see the 320d dropping significantly in price. I'm afraid that'll impact your trade-too...
[/sleazy salesman mode]

Mc-BigE

AudiChris wrote: »

[sleazy salesman mode]
Ah now, thaere's a question. If you'd have come to me a few months ago I'd have looked after you, but you know there's this whole change coming in July that'll see the 320d dropping significantly in price. I'm afraid that'll impact your trade-too...
[/sleazy salesman mode]

LOL, yeah yeah yeah..... ive heard it all before..... still funny though:D

-Chris-

*** Breaking News ***

I've just seen Audi Ireland's guideline July price list (subject to change, disclaimers everywhere). As far as I can tell it follows E92s spreadsheet very closely - all savings being passed on.

E92

Thats great news and really is what we should be expecting everyone else to do too. I assume the rest of the VAG range(i.e. Seat, Skoda and VW) will follow suit, and join BMW in the pass the savings on in full brigade(even if BMW weren't going to do it, I'm sure they'd have changed their minds on foot of this information).

Now that we know what Audi(and presumably the other VAG companies) are doing this, can this false rumour about BMW keeping prices constant and increasing the spec be finally put to bed?

mickdw

Any price on the 2.0 tdi 170 bhp diesel audi a5 post july? Im awaiting delivery of a 1.8T
A5 which isnt really changing in price but if the tdi was dropping to same price, the resale on mine would be seriously effected id say.

-Chris-

mickdw wrote: »

Any price on the 2.0 tdi 170 bhp diesel audi a5 post july? Im awaiting delivery of a 1.8T
A5 which isnt really changing in price but if the tdi was dropping to same price, the resale on mine would be seriously effected id say.

No idea yet Mick, although I'd expect the 2.0TDi 170 will still be a few grand more expensive than the 1.8T even post-July.

E92

It will go down in price by an amount so small that it makes no difference really(plus you will still be able to avail of lower road tax after July even if you get it registered before July).

Though as you noted, the 2.0 TDI probably won't be a lot dearer after July than the 1.8. Even under the old system, diesels sold for more even as a used car, so I'd expect that to continue.

The 2.0 TDI hasn't gone on sale yet in Germany though, so it's hard to know how it will work out price wise here, and as a consequence, it won't be here for another while yet(AudiChris, has the 2.0 TDI 170 entered production yet, and if yes, when did it enter production, and if no, when is it due to commence production?).

mickdw

Hope it does stay alittle dearer than mine.

bottletops

Hey folks.
I'm sorry if this has been asked 100 times before.

Say someone goes to the north this weekend and buys a 04 car.
(I'm my case an Alfa 156 JTD)

Where will I stand on VRT and Road tax?

Will I get €150 per year road tax from July 1st?
What rate would of VRT would I pay?

Again, I'm sorry if this is asking the same ol' question, Its just I'm easily confused!!

-Chris-

bottletops wrote: »

Hey folks.
I'm sorry if this has been asked 100 times before.

Say someone goes to the north this weekend and buys a 04 car.
(I'm my case an Alfa 156 JTD)

Where will I stand on VRT and Road tax?

Will I get €150 per year road tax from July 1st?
What rate would of VRT would I pay?

Again, I'm sorry if this is asking the same ol' question, Its just I'm easily confused!!

You'll pay road tax and VRT based on engine size (current system). After July you'll stay in the same system, the changes won't affect you.

alpina

Most probably would not be advisable to rush into any impulsive Audi purchases with new A5 etc as Audi has announced they will launch their new generation diesel engines within the coming months. Audi has claimed they will be first manufacturer to meet future emissions limits & will produce the cleanest diesel engines in the world.
If all or any of this proves true hopefully pricing on the A4/A5 will reduce somewhat with all this lower emissions talk.

The_Conductor

bottletops wrote: »

Hey folks.
I'm sorry if this has been asked 100 times before.

Say someone goes to the north this weekend and buys a 04 car.
(I'm my case an Alfa 156 JTD)

Where will I stand on VRT and Road tax?

Will I get €150 per year road tax from July 1st?
What rate would of VRT would I pay?

Again, I'm sorry if this is asking the same ol' question, Its just I'm easily confused!!

It depends on the model of Alfa 156 you buy- the largest one has emissions of 273grms/km. Any of the smaller engines will be treated exactly as currently- the larger ones will be moved onto the CO2 scale and charged annual roadtax of EUR2000 per annum.

E92

alpina wrote: »

Most probably would not be advisable to rush into any impulsive Audi purchases with new A5 etc as Audi has announced they will launch their new generation diesel engines within the coming months. Audi has claimed they will be first manufacturer to meet future emissions limits & will produce the cleanest diesel engines in the world.
If all or any of this proves true hopefully pricing on the A4/A5 will reduce somewhat with all this lower emissions talk.

Audi just launched a brand new diesel engine in the A4 though.

Don't confuse cars meeting the new Euro emissions standards with lower CO2. They're a completely different thing! The Euro 5/Euro 6 etc is nothing to do with CO2, it's all about the other pollutants like Particulates, Nitrous Oxide, Carbon Monoxide etc. CO2 is only one type of pollution!

I've heard that Audi are going to be making a twin turbo diesel to rival the BMW 535d though, with a similar amount of power as the 535d has.

There is a new 6.0 V12 TDI on the way for the Q7, it pollutes 315 g/km of CO2, so much for diesel being all green then:rolleyes:.

-Chris-

smccarrick wrote: »

bottletops wrote: »

Hey folks.
I'm sorry if this has been asked 100 times before.

Say someone goes to the north this weekend and buys a 04 car.
(I'm my case an Alfa 156 JTD)

Where will I stand on VRT and Road tax?

Will I get €150 per year road tax from July 1st?
What rate would of VRT would I pay?

Again, I'm sorry if this is asking the same ol' question, Its just I'm easily confused!!

It depends on the model of Alfa 156 you buy- the largest one has emissions of 273grms/km. Any of the smaller engines will be treated exactly as currently- the larger ones will be moved onto the CO2 scale and charged annual roadtax of EUR2000 per annum.

If you go and buy a car this weekend you'll be on the current rate of tax and VRT (presuming you register it the next day, as the law requires).
If you do the same in July, you'll pay the CO2 based VRT, but will still pay road tax based on engine size.

Traumadoc

AudiChris wrote: »

If you go and buy a car this weekend you'll be on the current rate of tax and VRT (presuming you register it the next day, as the law requires).
If you do the same in July, you'll pay the CO2 based VRT, but will still pay road tax based on engine size.

Unless the emissions are greater than 220g/km where you pay 2000 euro

I am unsure what happens if the emissions are unknown, say you buy a early 90s mini, you my well have to pay 2k tax per year.

Dub13

What are e best 7 seater cars for this new way of doing road tax...?I normally changed the car every couple of years but cant Imagen I will fine a cheap to tax 7 seater.

Nodnedlog

I know poeple seem pleased with the ammendment to the new road tax system in that it gives people the chance who purchased green cars prior to the announcement to opt into the new system.

This is great, BUT people who bought green cars in the UK or NI this year and are waiting to bring the car in to the IRE in July to avail of the new VRT and tax rates are screwed. To quote the announcement by John Gormley on 06/12/07:

In delivering his first Carbon budget today, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Mr John Gormley, TD, announced a move to a motor tax system based on CO2 emissions.

For new cars and pre-owned imports registered from 1 July 2008, motor tax charges will be determined on the basis of seven CO2 bands.

Reading that 3 months ago gave me the impression that my imported car post July would be placed on the new system. I feel another ammendment was made to protect the interest of the second hand motor industry and prevent cheaper cars coming in from the UK and NI!

The fairest system would have been an opt in or opt out system where everyone would have been happy, loss of revenue is the governments problem , they'd find some other tax to screw us with.

E92

Dub13 wrote: »

What are e best 7 seater cars for this new way of doing road tax...?I normally changed the car every couple of years but cant Imagen I will fine a cheap to tax 7 seater.

I've had a look at my VRT files(which can be found in the link in my sig), and it turns out that most small MPV diesels will get in at 6 points lower than before. Most of them will get it at 24% VRT, compared to 30% now, which is good news, some even get in at 20% VRT like C4 Picasso 1.6 diesel, while the CO2 champion is the Renault Scenic 1.5 dCi with it's 137 g/km CO2 rating, good enough for 16% VRT and €150 road tax a year(compared to 25% VRT at present).

Slidey

So basically they are gonna have their cake and eat it...
Bast@ards!!! Bought a tdi golf in from uk a while ago and was waiting for july so i could have the cheap tax.. thats gone in the sh1tter now.
Also wanted to bring in a 325i sport but i suppose i'll get buggerd with 2k a year tax then when it suits them to change the rules.. going back to oz is lookin better every day

E92

slideways wrote: »

So basically they are gonna have their cake and eat it...
Bast@ards!!! Bought a tdi golf in from uk a while ago and was waiting for july so i could have the cheap tax.. thats gone in the sh1tter now.
Also wanted to bring in a 325i sport but i suppose i'll get buggerd with 2k a year tax then when it suits them to change the rules.. going back to oz is lookin better every day

What kind of 325i do you want to bring in? The EfficientDynamics E90/E92 models are in the 24% VRT category(and €430 road tax too).

The non ED E90/E92 is in the 32% VRT category, as it's CO2 emissions are well below the 225 g/km cutoff. I have a feeling that the E46 325i also escapes the 225 g/km cutoff, but I'm not 100% on it.

Slidey

Its an e30, had 1 before and loved it but the tin worm had gotten to the back inner wings, will this be hit with the big road tax?

E92

Would love to drive one someday, though they have a very lively back end to put it mildly apparently!

The thing about imports over 225 g/km CO2 seems to have been kind of scrapped, you just pay the higher VRT, but no road tax penalty it seems now.

Either way, best to import it before July, no higher road tax or VRT guaranteed if you get it in before then.

Slidey

hence the username!!!
Wil have to get my skates on so...