New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

RobAMerc

Just read this on Dept Env website. Tax changes aren't going to affect pre 2008 imported cars!


New Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Motor Tax System

06/03/08

Mr John Gormley, T.D., Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, today (5 March 07) clarified the position in relation to introduction of the new CO2 based motor tax system. This clarification followed the passing of amendments to the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill 2008 at committee stage of the Bill today by the Dail Select Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Minister Gormley stated that all new cars registered from 1 July 2008 will have their motor tax rate based on the CO2 emissions level. The new CO2 based system will not apply to the import of pre 2008 cars.

New cars registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will initially have their motor tax charged on the basis of the existing engine size (c.c.) system. However, a low CO2 emitting new car registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 will have its motor tax switched to the lower CO2 based motor tax rate on first renewal of motor tax post 1 July 2008, when the new CO2 based system commences. New cars which are registered in the first 6 months of 2008 whose tax would be more under the new CO2 based system will continue to pay motor tax on the basis of engine size (c.c.).

"I am pleased to introduce this Committee Stage Amendment which will effectively allow new cars with low carbon emissions into the new emissions based motor tax system post 1 July 2008. The purpose of introducing the emissions based system in the first place was to encourage and incentivise as many people as possible to purchase 'greener cars' Today's amendment will ensure that additional car buyers will benefit from the scheme," said the Minister.

quarryman

so the 225gKm thing is out the window, correct?

In that case getting a mk2 gti is back on.

unkel

RobAMerc wrote: »

The new CO2 based system will not apply to the import of pre 2008 cars

That's a big turn around. Does anyone know an official linky to this?

Dub13

E92 wrote: »

I've had a look at my VRT files(which can be found in the link in my sig), and it turns out that most small MPV diesels will get in at 6 points lower than before. Most of them will get it at 24% VRT, compared to 30% now, which is good news, some even get in at 20% VRT like C4 Picasso 1.6 diesel, while the CO2 champion is the Renault Scenic 1.5 dCi with it's 137 g/km CO2 rating, good enough for 16% VRT and €150 road tax a year(compared to 25% VRT at present).

Thats grand...thanks.Looks like you put a lot of work into that.

RoundyMooney

What a flip flop from Gallopin' Gormley, the man who spoke at length on live radio about smart electricity metering turning on and off our dishwashers through a simple (but vast) process of simply replacing our meters, and the assurance that fridges throughout the land could be lit by the grace of compact flourescent lighting.

This has nothing to do with the principle of lowering CO2 emissions (which no one has a problem with in the grand scheme of things) and everything to do with pandering to the SIMI lobbyists, fearful of falling sales as buyers take pre-emptive action, or keep their powder dry.

My diesel will now incur an extra few hundred euro per annum for the exchequer, sorry, An Taoiseach's make up fund, just so he looks good while attempting to defend the indefensible.

VRT for the moment, remains in my favour, which will save a couple of grand that I'd rather keep, thank you very much.

Am I happy with these changes? Am I fuck.

People made decisions on importing on the basis that more fuel efficient engines would be granted exchequer favour. Now those that have or will do so, may as well stick to the antiquated notion that displacement equals the amount of fuel you burn.

waffler

:mad::mad:Gormley is some fuc***, I imported a 2.0 d a couple of weeks ago and was going to lock it up till July so i could pay tax at 290 instead of 590, what a kick in the hole I got today when i heard this.
I suppose i better go and register it now, that mother fuc***. Actually I won't, I probably will still save a couple of grand on Vrt (i think), I'll drive it anyway until i get caught with the UK plates

The_Conductor

waffler wrote:

Actually I won't, I probably will still save a couple of grand on Vrt (i think), I'll drive it anyway until i get caught with the UK plates

And have it confiscated on top of everything else?

waffler

I think I'll just have to risk it, if i get caught i hear that a 500 euro fine could be the worse that happens for first time offenders, time will tell i suppose. I just don't care anymore at this stage over gormleys announcement

The_Conductor

Seriously folks- how many of you have sent letters to the Minister to register your displeasure at his proposals? If you haven't- the time is ticking, and you really haven't anyone to blame but yourself if you haven't made your voice heard where it matters.

Write to the Minister- again and again, and again and again- until they cop on that there are enough of us pissed off out here who are being ****ed over by the new proposals, that it'll hurt them when the next elections come along.

Write letters- it takes 15 minutes- and they are legally obliged to respond to you within a set timeframe.

DO IT NOW!!!!!

Dolph Starbeam

Hi i'm just wondering, i'm importing a 95 or 96 mr2 turbo from Japan, i should have in all done before July but if i don't can the vrt can't really be much worse than the 33% i'll already have to pay will it?

The_Conductor

MOG7 wrote: »

Hi i'm just wondering, i'm importing a 95 or 96 mr2 turbo from Japan, i should have in all done before July but if i don't can the vrt can't really be much worse than the 33% i'll already have to pay will it?

Emissions are only (?) 178g/km and engine size is 1.8ltr so you'll pay motor tax based on engine size (@ EUR 530 per annum) and VRT will be 28% of OMSP- you get a minor benefit on the VRT but are on the old scheme for motor tax calculations

billbond4

smccarrick wrote: »

Seriously folks- how many of you have sent letters to the Minister to register your displeasure at his proposals? If you haven't- the time is ticking, and you really haven't anyone to blame but yourself if you haven't made your voice heard where it matters.

Write to the Minister- again and again, and again and again- until they cop on that there are enough of us pissed off out here who are being ****ed over by the new proposals, that it'll hurt them when the next elections come along.

Write letters- it takes 15 minutes- and they are legally obliged to respond to you within a set timeframe.

DO IT NOW!!!!!

Your right!!!
I was all set to get a 2.2 Diesel Honda Accord after July and now Im rethinking this, first time I emailed a Minister.
Write a letter/email to the Minister first, then moan about it here after.

At least he may have a rethink if enough people contact him, if people write about it here he wont know anything about people been p**ed off.
At least give it a try!!

RoundyMooney

I did that before I even posted here.

Good choice on the Accord, go for the satnav spec if possible.

At the end of the day, the tax will be high, but you'll still save on both purchase and vrt.

Mc-BigE

one thing to remember lads, is 3 or 4 years time all these 08 cars will be in must peoples reach, and you will be able to buy in the UK or ireland, at the new rates, the only problem is, the goverment might change there mind again in the meantime because revenue is down and up the cost of VRT/motor tax or change the CO2 bands again.

keep your powder dry, drive away in what you have now, or buy a cheap small car until you can afford a 08 car.

King Kelly

smccarrick wrote: »

Seriously folks- how many of you have sent letters to the Minister to register your displeasure at his proposals? If you haven't- the time is ticking, and you really haven't anyone to blame but yourself if you haven't made your voice heard where it matters.

Write to the Minister- again and again, and again and again- until they cop on that there are enough of us pissed off out here who are being ****ed over by the new proposals, that it'll hurt them when the next elections come along.

Write letters- it takes 15 minutes- and they are legally obliged to respond to you within a set timeframe.

DO IT NOW!!!!!

In all fairness guys do you expect the Minister for Finance to make allowances for people who take their cash out of the country to purchase cars from abroard. While there is some case to be made for people who purchased low emmission vehicles from Irish garages in the past few years and are disadvantaged by the new rules, the same case does not apply for imports.

If you choose to import a vehicle from the Uk, you do so to take advantage of the lower costs due mainly to the lower taxation residuals in the vehicles in that jurisiction. According to many posters on this site there are large savings to be got and fair play to any one who has done so.

But its a bit rich to expect to Irish government to make special allowence when people who bought cars in Ireland in the past few years, paid Irish VRT and VAT to garages who in turn paid Irish Corp. Tax and employed people in this country, have to pay at the old (higher) rates.

I think the introduction of this scheme has been a mess up which has done no favours to the public or the car industry here. While most of us applaud the idea of a new system which encourages lower emmissions a little more time and thought could have gone into it and the introduction should definitely been from the 1st January not 1st July.

The_Conductor

King Kelly wrote: »

In all fairness guys do you expect the Minister for Finance to make allowances for people who take their cash out of the country to purchase cars from abroard. While there is some case to be made for people who purchased low emmission vehicles from Irish garages in the past few years and are disadvantaged by the new rules, the same case does not apply for imports.

I disagree. All cars are imports at some stage- we don't manufacture cars here. Its irrelevant whether the car is purchased from an Irish garage or from abroad- the government gets another whack of VRT on imports of second hand cars- they get nada from second hand Irish sales..... Also- in a lot of cases- its simply easier to find the low emission cars in the UK, than it is here- traditionally the smaller diesels weren't sold here. The likes of congestion charges in London etc- made these very viable options in the UK several years ago.

King Kelly wrote: »

If you choose to import a vehicle from the Uk, you do so to take advantage of the lower costs due mainly to the lower taxation residuals in the vehicles in that jurisiction. According to many posters on this site there are large savings to be got and fair play to any one who has done so.

It depends. For the most part- when you factor VRT into the equation there is very little difference in the Irish versus UK prices. The reason UK imports are popular- is a much better variety and choice of examples, particularly given they are right hand drive- and normally have far better documented histories than similar Irish examples. A far wider choice, and sometimes better specifications are the two major reasons for bringing secondhand vehicles in- and not the price. There really is sfa price differential, when VRT is added to the equation.

King Kelly wrote: »

But its a bit rich to expect to Irish government to make special allowence when people who bought cars in Ireland in the past few years, paid Irish VRT and VAT to garages who in turn paid Irish Corp. Tax and employed people in this country, have to pay at the old (higher) rates.

I agree- I think it should be open to anyone who can satisfactorily document the emissions of their car. This can be done with the EU Certificate of Conformity- which is widely available for cars manufactured as far back as 1998 (depends on the manufacturer). Ireland didn't transpose the EU Regulations into Irish legislation (and still hasn't), but the certs are available from manufacturers (normally at a charge of about EUR 100-120). I am not advocating special treatment for those who import cars- I think anyone should be able to opt-in to the new emissions road tax- once they get the right documents.

King Kelly wrote: »

I think the introduction of this scheme has been a mess up which has done no favours to the public or the car industry here. While most of us applaud the idea of a new system which encourages lower emmissions a little more time and thought could have gone into it and the introduction should definitely been from the 1st January not 1st July.

The introduction has been an utter ballsup. It may not have done favours to the public at large- but by god, industry has had their every concern addressed. The revised 1.1.08 date is to address their concerns about lower sales (when the state of the economy and the difficulty with getting loans which was not the case last year- are very definitely large factors in the equation).

Nodnedlog

I agree with smccarrick

The fairest and most obvious system would be to allow anyone with a lower emissions cars to opt into the system and pre July high polluting cars can remain as they are. This would have been the green thing to do! But I'm afraid the lobby system is alive and well, Bod bless Frank Dunlop!

I have emailed Gormley many times but got no reply! I doubt he'll change his mind for the likes of me, but I'll try any how.

Btw King Kelly it is not a matter of making allowances for those people that import, he categorally said in his original statement that the new system would apply to "new and pre-owned imports" no mention of pre 08 was mentioned in Dec 07.

-Chris-

smccarrick wrote: »

I disagree. All cars are imports at some stage- we don't manufacture cars here. Its irrelevant whether the car is purchased from an Irish garage or from abroad- the government gets another whack of VRT on imports of second hand cars- they get nada from second hand Irish sales..... Also- in a lot of cases- its simply easier to find the low emission cars in the UK, than it is here- traditionally the smaller diesels weren't sold here. The likes of congestion charges in London etc- made these very viable options in the UK several years ago.

I disagree. We have LOADS of things that are imports, but that doesn't stop them being job-creators and revenue generators. Whether you're selling Snap-On tools or Dunnes Stores clothes, I'll bet they're not manufactured here!
The gov't gets VAT from cars that they wouldn't get from imports. They get income tax revenue from employment that the selling of cars generates.
In economics they call tourism "invisible exports" (iirc) because the influx of tourists can be considered as a flowing of money into the country in return for a service supplied to those outside the country.
Apply the same logic to cars and you'll see that the gov't will consider the UK cars as imports and the Irish cars as domestic sales.
(Economics experts, please don't correct me too much.... ).

smccarrick wrote: »

It depends. For the most part- when you factor VRT into the equation there is very little difference in the Irish versus UK prices. The reason UK imports are popular- is a much better variety and choice of examples, particularly given they are right hand drive- and normally have far better documented histories than similar Irish examples. A far wider choice, and sometimes better specifications are the two major reasons for bringing secondhand vehicles in- and not the price. There really is sfa price differential, when VRT is added to the equation.

I disagree, you'll find a ton of threads that show that you can import a car and then sell it here for a profit.
Documented histories is debatable too, I'd trust an Irish service history far quicker than a UK history.
Some specs are available in UK that aren't available here, true, but I'd think most are importing for financial reasons.

smccarrick wrote: »

I agree- I think it should be open to anyone who can satisfactorily document the emissions of their car. This can be done with the EU Certificate of Conformity- which is widely available for cars manufactured as far back as 1998 (depends on the manufacturer). Ireland didn't transpose the EU Regulations into Irish legislation (and still hasn't), but the certs are available from manufacturers (normally at a charge of about EUR 100-120). I am not advocating special treatment for those who import cars- I think anyone should be able to opt-in to the new emissions road tax- once they get the right documents.

I think the Irish cars should be retrospectively included in the new road tax system (but I don't think it'll happen). I don't think the imports should be included in the new system unless Irish cars are.
To put it better, I think all imports should be treated IDENTICALLY to the Irish equivalent - to avoid a two-tier road tax system that hurts the cars bought by our peers and family in ROI to the advantage of those who import.

Seriously, imagine that the new CO2 road tax rates applied retrospectively to UK imports but not Irish cars (as you're proposing). UK imports would go through the roof, money would FLOW out of the country, jobs would be lost and the "slow down" would greatly accelerate.

smccarrick wrote: »

The introduction has been an utter ballsup.

+1,000,000

smccarrick wrote: »

It may not have done favours to the public at large- but by god, industry has had their every concern addressed. The revised 1.1.08 date is to address their concerns about lower sales (when the state of the economy and the difficulty with getting loans which was not the case last year- are very definitely large factors in the equation).

The industry is hugely affected by this balls-up. Dealers are under huge pressure and jobs (and mortgages) are at risk. This hasn't been fun for sellers or buyers!
A retrospection to 01.03.08 would probably have kick-started the sales again (although there hasn't exactly been a flood of people in the doors since this change was announced), the retrospection to 01.01.08 was probably to make sure they didn't p*ss off those who they affected with their change in December. Going further back will hit tax revenues and probably won't happen...

The_Conductor

Audichris- I think we'll have to agree to disagree.....

Importing a secondhand car is a revenue generator for the government, the VRT on these imports tends to be in the higher categories (a high portion are in the 28-30% OMSP bands). The government does not get VAT on secondhand sales in this country- only new sales. Most people who are buying secondhand simply cannot afford to buy new (or are unwilling to buy new, which boils down to the same thing). By purchasing an Irish secondhand car- there is an opportunity cost associated with the loss of tax revenue to the government, which on a per unit basis is not made up in PAYE and other contributions on the part of the salesperson of an Irish car (an increasing amount of which are private sales anyhow- shortcircuiting this argument even further).

I accept that a lot of people may be importing for financial reasons, rather than because of the lack of availability of models/specs here- but from personal experience (having been involved in 4 imports in the last year) a majority of people are doing it on an availability basis more than financial (once legitimate VRT and other costs are factored in).

I agree 100% with you that Irish cars should be included in the proposals- in exactly the same manner as imports- my only point was that appropriate documentation should be presented- and from talking to 4 manufacturers, and after procuring 2 certificates of EU conformity (copies of which I sent to Minister Gormley's office for his information in case they decided to say this wasn't possible), I have no hesitation in stating that the appropriate EU documents are readily available. They are charging for them- but they are available.

In my own personal opinion I think road tax should be abolished altogether and a cent or two added onto a litre of fuel to collect the revenue instead. This would be the environmental approach- as people would pay for their actual pollutants. If you have a large car but only drive 5,000 km per year- why should you pay EUR2000 when your neighbour with an identical car drives 25,000km per year (generating 5 times as much pollution).

The emissions based taxation has murkied the water- there is no longer a distinction as to whether this is a road tax- taxing you for your use of the road and incidental production of pollution- as the Minister would have you believe- or what it actually is- which is an additional annual taxation on owning the asset- irrespective of whether or how much you choose to use that vehicle, and how pollution you actually generate. Now that the Department has murkied that distinction- they could potentially bring in some far reaching measures, which would be revenue neutral, and potentially very revenue positive- as there would no longer be any means of evading motor tax.

King Kelly

smccarrick wrote: »

.... The government does not get VAT on secondhand sales in this country- only new sales. Most people who are buying secondhand simply cannot afford to buy new (or are unwilling to buy new, which boils down to the same thing). By purchasing an Irish secondhand car- there is an opportunity cost associated with the loss of tax revenue to the government, which on a per unit basis is not made up in PAYE and other contributions on the part of the salesperson of an Irish car (an increasing amount of which are private sales anyhow- shortcircuiting this argument even further).

.......

I wish it were true - My VAT returns must be wrong all these years!

VAT at 21% is chargeable on ALL tranactions new and used, cars and commercial vehicles and is returned bi-monthly by all legitimate car dealers in the state. The VAT element is not (generally) shown separately on the garage invoice as this is not reclaimable by end user but must be returned by the garages.

As already outlined in a previous thread garages in Ireland are basically unpaid tax collecters for the revenue. We collect and return huge amounts of VRT and VAT on car transactions each month not to mention PAYE/PRSI.

The uncertainty thrown up by the various decisions and non decisions have created serious problems for garages throughout the country and I would not be suprised if several high profile garages close this year. Dealers are carrying large used car stock levels at a time when sales have fallen, it is near impossible to borrow money, interest rates have risen and there is uncertainty as to the value of that stock come 1st July.

Any crumbs thrown our way is welcome!

The_Conductor

You do have my sympathy re the massive stocks of used cars- I do think that the interest rates and the tightening of credit and general uncertainty are at least as big a problem as the new regime though. Unfortunately garages aren't the only retailers in dire trouble- sales coming up to Christmas were poor and post Christmas not much better in virtually all sectors As a country we are in trouble, big trouble- while I don't think we're on the verge of the bankruptcy of the 1980s- things are getting very hard for the average person on the street- which is impacting upstream- garages are feeling the heat perhaps a little before other sectors.

Nodnedlog

I'm sorry if I'm not as sympathetic to the motoring industry.
I know some of the smaller operators are finding it tough but the big dealerships have done well. You just have to look at the ever increasing size of top brand show rooms to see this. The need to drive a new car and compete with the neighbour during the Celtic Tiger meant new car sales have hit record numbers in the last few years.
It's time to take the profits and ride through the bad times. Consumers should be given the choice of getting better value in the UK second hand market without this protectionist policy from Mr Gormley.

I would also be in favour of scrapping road tax and paying at the pump instead.

billbond4

Bottom line, the minister promised the change,and he looks to be failing to deliver.
If he was serious about emissions he would stick to what he promised, the less emissions we produce as a country the less fines we will pay to the eu, thats something else he should think about instead of listening to the car dealers.

-Chris-

I'm not picking fights and some of this is as devil's advocate, but again, I'm sorry, I think the discussion is waaay off track...

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I'm sorry if I'm not as sympathetic to the motoring industry.
I know some of the smaller operators are finding it tough but the big dealerships have done well.

NO dealerships have done well since the introduction of this change. This has changed everything and has taken the momentum out of car sales. I hope it will recover.

I don't just say that because I'm worried about my job btw, VRT is a GIGANTIC contributor to the government coffers. I don't mean to dwell on it, but if there's a loss in revenue from there, then that revenue will have to be made up from somewhere else (as well as the loss in stamp duty revenue, the loss in PAYE revenue etc. that are all suffering in this downturn) - someone has to pay for the massively inefficient state and semi-state bodies!

Nodnedlog wrote: »

You just have to look at the ever increasing size of top brand show rooms to see this.

The size of the showrooms and the expense in creating them is specified by the manufacturers - they're over here saying "if you're not xxx square feet with yyy meters of glass and zzz number of cars in the showroom, you're not allowed to sell our cars". The intention is to reduce the number of sellers and increase both the image of the brand and the barriers of entry into the market to reduce competition.

It's not a measure of wealth, it's a dictated necessity.

Nodnedlog wrote: »

The need to drive a new car and compete with the neighbour during the Celtic Tiger meant new car sales have hit record numbers in the last few years.

Absolutely, and the celtic tiger has given increased wages, massively reduced unemployment and improved standards of living to us all. I, for one, don't want to give it back.

The influx of foreign nationals has also increased the demand for used cars which in turn means more of us can afford new cars.

In general, the sales of new cars are a pretty good indicator of the health of an economy. Anyone who sees a reduction of these numbers as a "stick it to the stealers, with no consequence for the rest of us" phenomenon should think again...

Nodnedlog wrote: »

It's time to take the profits and ride through the bad times.

Tell that to the brickies and plasterers - only the developers will ride through the downturn, the rest of the construction industry will suffer. Same for the motor industry - the multi-millionaires will lose revenue, the rest of us will lose our jobs.

Nodnedlog wrote: »

Consumers should be given the choice of getting better value in the UK second hand market

I think a level playing field on the road tax front achieves exactly that - if you can find a similar car cheaper in the UK, or a similarly priced car with higher spec/better history, then buy it!

Two tier road tax would grant an unfair advantage to imports and put all currently registered Irish cars at a disadvantage.
Can I point out that (other than those normally resident in the UK and those that have imported a car in the last 24 hours), that negatively affects EVERYONE ELSE who owns a car in Ireland!

Nodnedlog wrote: »

without this protectionist policy from Mr Gormley.

Protectionism never hurt anyone who got a job through lower corporation taxes...
A massive amount of our economy is based on the way the gov't subtly skews the odds in our favour - same with virtually every country in the world!

Again, you're willing to choose the meager road tax savings of the few private importers over the gov't revenue loss and subsequent tax hikes for the many?

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I would also be in favour of scrapping road tax and paying at the pump instead.

Me too, but if you think the SIMI has a strong lobby, imagine what the hauliers and taxi drivers would do if fuel went up in price - they'd shut the country down for days!!!

galwaytt

I used to work in the Industry - but I'm alright, now - so I'm on both sides of the fence on this one.

The people who buy in the UK are, in the main, people who wouldn't buy here anyway, so they're not actually a loss, they're a gain to Revenue. VAT may be returned on sales both new and used, but VRT isn't.

As for dealers here and their pricing - well I know margins on new stuff isn't what Joe Public thinks it is, but margins on used at the moment must be........zero ? - just to empty the yard.

However, the trade hasn't done itself any favours over the years. Running costs do affect purchasing decisions, and to have a Ford main dealer charging Eur 90/hr, whilst having a 1st/2nd year apprentice on Eur 10/hr actually doing the work, is just pissing people off........you reap what you sow.

I think independants, and small traders will benefit at a cost to big dealerships, not the other way round - just like the '80's..........you can talk cash to sole traders and small mechanics, you can't to glass'n'mirror dealers....

-Chris-

billbond4 wrote: »

Bottom line, the minister promised the change,and he looks to be failing to deliver.
If he was serious about emissions he would stick to what he promised, the less emissions we produce as a country the less fines we will pay to the eu, thats something else he should think about instead of listening to the car dealers.

[rant]

Fine, then retrospectively apply the changes to all cars since COCs were introduced.

(But that will mean that thousands of drivers will pay more in road tax through no fault of their own...)

Ok then, let those in the lower bands take the lower tax and those in the higher bands stay at the same rate.

(But that will mean losses to the exchequer. How will we fund the hospitals?)

Increase taxes!

(But that will cause us to be thrown out of government!)

Close more hospitals?

(Nah, can't do that either...)

But surely we can let people avail of the changes in road tax and VRT who are caught up in this change, while leaving everyone else who bought a car prior to the change in the same position as they were before...

(nope, they want their cake and eat it too)

Dammit, what's the solution?



And that's a serious question - for all those out there who are whinging about this change and how it will cost you €300 per year in road tax, what's your solution and how will you pay for it???

[/rant]

Nodnedlog

AudiChris wrote: »

[rant]

Fine, then retrospectively apply the changes to all cars since COCs were introduced.

(But that will mean that thousands of drivers will pay more in road tax through no fault of their own...)

Ok then, let those in the lower bands take the lower tax and those in the higher bands stay at the same rate.

(But that will mean losses to the exchequer. How will we fund the hospitals?)

Increase taxes!

(But that will cause us to be thrown out of government!)

Close more hospitals?

(Nah, can't do that either...)

But surely we can let people avail of the changes in road tax and VRT who are caught up in this change, while leaving everyone else who bought a car prior to the change in the same position as they were before...

(nope, they want their cake and eat it too)

Dammit, what's the solution?



And that's a serious question - for all those out there who are whinging about this change and how it will cost you €300 per year in road tax, what's your solution and how will you pay for it???

[/rant]

I'm sorry but the "who's going to pay for it" arguement doesn't concern me. I'm not a huge motor enthusiast, or a car dealer. I drove a banger for the last decade and have a bit of an idealistic streak in me which made me think about going green and doing something for the planet (to ease my conscience!). Up pops John Gormley with this new road tax system based on new cars bought after July 08 and pre owned imports registered after July. Happy days says I. Did a bit of research (read through this forum) I'll phone my friend up north reserve a 07 green machine.

SIMI or whoever made a bit of noise and low and behold only a few subtle changes have been made! I pay tax and will continue to pay tax and make up any shortfall the government creates for itself but I want what was promised, afterall I will be paying VRT on a second hand car which I wouldn't if I bought second hand here.

We are supposed to be living in an EU freemarket!

I address the Motor industry - Money was made, maybe not distributed evenly I'll agree but greed drove it.
I openly admit I can't afford to buy a decent new car so this was a viable option for me which is slowly becoming less viable.

P.S. Wait and see what happens to the propsed VRT changes will they do the same as road tax?

-Chris-

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I'm sorry but the "who's going to pay for it" arguement doesn't concern me. I'm not a huge motor enthusiast, or a car dealer. I drove a banger for the last decade and have a bit of an idealistic streak in me which made me think about going green and doing something for the planet (to ease my conscience!). Up pops John Gormley with this new road tax system based on new cars bought after July 08 and pre owned imports registered after July. Happy days says I. Did a bit of research (read through this forum) I'll phone my friend up north reserve a 07 green machine.

I applaud you for your green streak and I hope others will follow in your wake. Ultimately I would love the same number of cars to be sold, but with a greener tilt - that way I make the same money, the general effect is minimised, but we're all doing our bit to save the environment.

I think this would have happened if there was a Jan start date instead of July - July has messed up everyone's buying cycle and put hesitation into a market where there was no hesitation before.

Nodnedlog wrote: »

SIMI or whoever made a bit of noise and low and behold only a few subtle changes have been made! I pay tax and will continue to pay tax and make up any shortfall the government creates for itself but I want what was promised, afterall

This should have been thought out better to begin with. Changes shouldn't have been necessary.

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I will be paying VRT on a second hand car which I wouldn't if I bought second hand here.

You wouldn't have paid VRT here, but you would have paid a second-hand price based on a new price that included VRT - net impact to you, very little. Some saving by going to NI, offset by tax imposed when car enters this market - from a general economy-management point of view that's a pretty efficient policy!

Nodnedlog wrote: »

We are supposed to be living in an EU freemarket!

Absolutely, abolish VRT for all cars and again you'd have a level playing field. I fully support this!

Although it does seem like you're looking for a level playing field here, but not when it comes to the road tax or purchase price of a ROI vs NI car...

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I address the Motor industry - Money was made, maybe not distributed evenly I'll agree but greed drove it.

I don't understand this point. Greed drives nearly everything - including most of the posts in this thread (a controversial statement that will win me few friends, but I'll stand by it).

Nodnedlog wrote: »

I openly admit I can't afford to buy a decent new car so this was a viable option for me which is slowly becoming less viable.

If you import after July and you chose the right car, you'll benefit hugely. There are cars out there that will drop from 30% VRT to 16% VRT, and that VRT will be calculated against a lower OMSP. If you choose to import a green car you'll be rewarded handsomely and you'll have an extremely favourable resale value, you just won't have a cheap(er) road tax rate.

Nodnedlog wrote: »

P.S. Wait and see what happens to the propsed VRT changes will they do the same as road tax?

VRT is controlled by Cowen whereas road tax is controlled by Gormley (as I understand it). I don't think Cowen, the experienced and hardened Minister and politician will be as easily swayed by the (very) green Gormley.

Nodnedlog

Greed doesn't drive everyone this is a false assumption. We all have needs in order to survive and have a reasonable lifestyle.

Some people want more than their fair share and this is what greed is. Once they they are getting this disproportionate amount all the time it becomes in their own minds their entitlement and in fact they will look for more - we are all susceptible to this but for some it's obsessive.

conor_mc

King Kelly wrote: »

In all fairness guys do you expect the Minister for Finance to make allowances for people who take their cash out of the country to purchase cars from abroard.

Jesus H. Christ - that's typical Irish KK, having our cake and eating it. I supppose you support VRT too?

Ever hear of the European Union, eurozone, free market, etc?

Yep, all that cash to build our infrastructure for the last 20 that came from Europe actually had a quid pro quo - a free market whereby european ciizens are *entitled* to choose where to buy their products.

Now the govt have been shafting us with a "local tax" called VRT which somehow manages to circumvent the free market in a legal way.

But this "taking your cash out of the country" argument is pure BS, nothing less. As a revenue measure, they can apply a new tax regime to cars purchased from Jan 1st 2008, whether imported or not. But as an allegedly "green" measure, it's pure hypocrisy.