New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

unkel

But I posted about it first

On a more serious note, how can someone be banned if they are already banned?

Sorry for off topic!

Seth Brundle

Ask the admins!

Back on topic; can someone confirm if the policy about importing a car if you have owned it for 6 months will be exempt, still applies after July?

ninty9er

Tauren wrote: »

Funny how hospitals are still crap, under-funded, poorly designed and closing.

I don't think i understand your second paragraph. are trying to use the fact the government would rather screw an average earner than a high earner as some kind of positive argument?

No I'm saying (the part you didn't get) that just because it says FF after the name doens't mean all 78 of them believe the exact same thing, which seems to elude many posters. I used the hospitals (on the original topic) as an example, it could have been anything that could have been cut if VRT wasn't introduced. Funny though how you don't see one single party (or TD that I recall) calling for its complete abolition.

ninty9er

kbannon wrote: »

Ask the admins!

Back on topic; can someone confirm if the policy about importing a car if you have owned it for 6 months will be exempt, still applies after July?

I don't recall it being specified, so would assume it does. I'm sure the nice people at the VRO wouldn't figure out 'til 2020 if it didn't anyway so we're all grand for the moment:p:p

-Chris-

kbannon wrote: »

Ask the admins!

Back on topic; can someone confirm if the policy about importing a car if you have owned it for 6 months will be exempt, still applies after July?

I would presume so, exempt is exempt.

I'd hope that diplomatic exemptions, disabled-adapted VRT breaks and also exemptions for people not normally resident here would stay in place. They all have a legitimate purpose.

Esel

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Noel Browne must be spinning in his grave.

Gormley is having this investigated from the renewable energy angle, although he is concentrating on the Republican Plot in Glasnevin Cemetery as the most viable area for a pilot project. If this works, Arbour Hill is next.

fletch

Anybody see the advertisement by Ford in The Sunday Times, InGear magazine. It reads

Budget '08 means lower VRT on certain types of car. BUT NOT ALL CARS WILL COME DOWN IN PRICE.

Cars like the Focus and Mondeo enjoy lower VRT and road tax rates until July. So you can save hundreds if you buy before July. If you buy before April 15, you will benefit from a special bonus, bringing you savings to an even €750 (Focus) or €1500 (Mondeo).

I know they are trying to keep sales up from now til July but still they are basically advertising the fact that their cars are not very efficient and to buy as soon as possible.

Also the line I have bolded might make people think that all Focus' and Mondeo's are going to be more expensive come July, not just the petrols. Very badly worded I think?

The_Conductor

They've a massive advertising campaign on RTE radio as well at the moment. Seems to be a bit of a dubious way of selling the cars, stock clearance I guess. Time will tell.

audia3140bhp

check this out...www.vrt.ie, (aparently its a new indepedent site)

very handy vrt and tax calculators

dp639

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,16861,en.htm

so does this mean motor tax rate will remain as it is for pre-2008 imported cars but the VRT will still change to the new rates?

Tipsy Mac

dp639 wrote: »

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,16861,en.htm

so does this mean motor tax rate will remain as it is for pre-2008 imported cars but the VRT will still change to the new rates?

Yes/No/Don't know, he seems to have changed his mind on what he originally cast in stone with the "green budget"....

From 1 July 2008, anyone buying a new or pre-owned imported car can make a choice for the environment by purchasing a low CO2 emitting car, and thus enjoy a lower rate of motor tax. Alternatively, if the choice is to purchase a high CO2 emissions car, a higher rate of motor tax will apply.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,16223,en.htm

brianm84

I seem to be still a bit confused on this VRT and car tax situation.
If say, i import a uk reg car after july 1, my VRT, on the car, is calculated at the the new rates set out in the budget of 07. However i dont get the new rates of motor tax on my imported car, or do I??? Could some one clear up this issue for me.

The_Conductor

brianm84 wrote: »

I seem to be still a bit confused on this VRT and car tax situation.
If say, i import a uk reg car after july 1, my VRT, on the car, is calculated at the the new rates set out in the budget of 07. However i dont get the new rates of motor tax on my imported car, or do I??? Could some one clear up this issue for me.

You are correct. This is stated to be a measure to try to prevent the Irish secondhand market from going into freefall. Why would anyone buy an Irish secondhand car- when they could nip up North or across to the UK and get a better specced car, and then pay much lower road tax going forward on it than they would have to do on a similar originally Irish regged car? Only cars to avail of CO2 emission annual road taxes- are those first 2008 regged- be it here or abroad.

The whole thing is an unmitigated mess.

N8

smccarrick wrote: »

The whole thing is an unmitigated mess.

Nothing new for our politicians

N8

From http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,16223,en.htm

'For new cars and pre-owned imports registered from 1 July 2008, motor tax charges will be determined on the basis of seven CO2 bands. From 1 July 2008, anyone buying a new or pre-owned imported car can make a choice for the environment by purchasing a low CO2 emitting car, and thus enjoy a lower rate of motor tax. Alternatively, if the choice is to purchase a high CO2 emissions car, a higher rate of motor tax will apply.'

From http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,16861,en.htm

Same self reliever different day….

'Minister Gormley stated that all new cars registered from 1 July 2008 will have their motor tax rate based on the CO2 emissions level. The new CO2 based system will not apply to the import of pre 2008 cars.'

ninty9er wrote: »

NOBODY who would have gone abroad anyway to buy a car would have done so on the basis of emissions.

I did and many others did too. Why wouldn't we after what that turd had told us??

Now we are caught out lovely because now the Greens have turned out to be gormless a$$holes too….

Is there any come back?

The_Conductor

N8 wrote: »

I did and many others did too. Why wouldn't we after what that turd had told us??

Ditto- as did my parents, my brother and several people who work with me. The only people I despise more than politicians are journalists :mad:

copacetic

smccarrick wrote: »

Ditto- as did my parents, my brother and several people who work with me. The only people I despise more than politicians are journalists :mad:

you all did this since the budget?

parsi

ninty9er wrote: »

however I'm still convincing TDs it's a good idea to screw every penny (well at least 45-50%) above €150k out of people.

I thought they didn't need to be convinced about screwing folk for money or donations....

Anyway whatever about who did or didn't come up with the policy it is clear that it's introduction was poorly thought out and indeed that it has come at a dodgy time for the Government. If things were going well and Bertie had a clean sheet then they may have been able to stand up and push it through like the smoking ban but they have wasted their political capital so they'll be ducking and diving for the next while.

The_Conductor

copacetic wrote: »

you all did this since the budget?

Some were previous- this was originally announced in Nov 06 remember......

ninty9er

smccarrick wrote: »

Some were previous- this was originally announced in Nov 06 remember......

You should check that memory of yours

CONSULTATION was announced on December 6th 2006

Budget 2007

Brian Cowen wrote:

EnvironmentalTaxation
In the case of Vehicle Registration Tax, I intend to change the current
rating system to relate it more closely to environmental policy objectives,
in this case reducing carbon dioxide emissions. I intend that there should
be some reward in the VRT system for choosing lower-emission vehicles,
and that those choosing higher-emission vehicles should pay more.For that reason, I am setting out a range of options in the Budget booklet
for making such a move. My Department will carry out a public
consultation process on these proposals before coming back to
Government. Any changes will have effect from a target date of 1
January 2008.
At the same time, my colleague, the Minister for the Environment,
Heritage and Local Government will consult on his proposals for a
complementary rebalancing of annual motor tax. This would provide a
further incentive through the motor tax system for the motoring public to
drive cleaner cars and would impose some additional cost in respect of
cars with higher carbon dioxide emission levels. This would apply to
vehicles registered on or after 1 January 2008. Underpinning both of
these initiatives will be a new mandatory labelling system for cars based
on CO2 emission levels.
Linking consumption taxes to environmental goals requires us to discuss
the details of such moves thoroughly with stakeholders if we want to get
it right.

...the outcome could have been no change and anyhow it wouldn't have applied to anyone who has already imported a car.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

copacetic

smccarrick wrote: »

Some were previous- this was originally announced in Nov 06 remember......

have to agree with FF head above, even though i find it hard to say so. not sure how anyone took anything announced pre budget to actually mean anything, there was absolutely no mention of importing.

Nuttzyy

Just a couple of points i think are worth considering.

Firstly, anyone who imported a car on the basis of this new tax system whilst it was still very clearly still being discussed and ironed out, is a bit foolish/naive, in my opinion.

Secondly there are 2 scenarios of people affected by the new tax propsoals:

Scenario 1: Private person - importing a Uk diesel, fair play to tham, they get a better Spec car, maybe save some euros and now may get cheaper Vrt rate and "most would have gotten cheaper road tax" under the new emissions system." However, this road tax saving would be about 2/3 hundred at maximum, i think??

Scenario 2: Japan import businesses - Under the new system they would in effect be put out of business. Taking 2litre turbos like subarus and 1.6litre vtec's for example would suddenly have road tax of E2000 and E1000 respectively. So, a person with a subaru at present is paying 1200 approx i think, and if they buy a 2nd hand fresh import of the same model after july, this person would suddenly be nearly paying double road tax.

To summarise, my point is, the pivate person with the subaru would lose out way more than the diesel uk importer.
Also, the last thing the economy needs is more losses in jobs and jap importers would definitely be out of business the next morning if that new tax system applied to pre-2008 cars.

I think the people now crying that they bought a uk imprt diesel with the intention of saving a measley 2/300 road tax a year and now realise they wont make this saving have a hard neck to start complaining when you consider the overll bigger picture of this new tax system. I realise, most people look at the new tax system in terms of how it effects them, but you still need to consider how it effects everyone as a whole.

I think ive described the 2 scenarios to the coin fairly well and i believe i make a valid point, but perhaps im incorrect or maybe im missing something,,,, feel free to discuss my 2 scenarios and point out if im missing something!

The_Conductor

Nuttzyy- the average diesel import is under 150grm/km (1.9 or 2.0ltr) - which would put them at EUR590 at present but half it under the emissions scheme- so it would average out at an annual saving of about EUR300, yes. Your Subaru figures are also correct. An interesting statistic that I don't know is- how many of these (both scenarios) were imported? From personal experience I would hazard a guess that the number of diesels from the UK is a multiple of the Jap imports? Would be interesting to get some data on this.

parsi

ninty9er wrote: »

You should check that memory of yours

CONSULTATION was announced on December 6th 2006

He didn't make all that bad a stab at remembering. Only a month out. Better memory than Il Duce.

mylestheslasher

Well, He has a better memory than Bertie Ahern anyway but that wouldn't be too hard. I, like some of the posters above, went to the UK to buy a diesel before July cos 2nd hand value of cars was going to fall after July. We did so cos Mr Gormley went on numerous radio and TV shows promoting his tax reform and clearly stated what he was going to do. A lot of people were pi**ed off about this but he wasn't for moving. His mission was to force people to buy cleaner cars - which I did. He then changed his mind apparently and people like me get screwed. Well If Mr Gormley doesn't change his mind back maybe I am going to go all out and go completely tax uncompliant. Photocopy a tax disc, remove your english plates and put on fake Irish ones and the best saving of all use Green Diesel. You'll get caught one day but I reckon great savings will be made before that. OK - thats was in jest but the reality is that more and more people are just going to lose the plot with these clowns in government and start going down this road. I'm especially talking about people like me in the west or on the border that are forced to drive 40/50 miles to work every day on brutal roads with no public transport. We can't work near home cos this government spends every penny it has bringing industry to cities that we don't live near. We still pay the same road tax, income tax and we will be getting more and more screwed every week that passes. Meanwhile we have a ganster running the country that has been creaming money of the top for himself.

-Chris-

mylestheslasher wrote: »

I, like some of the posters above, went to the UK to buy a diesel before July cos 2nd hand value of cars was going to fall after July. We did so cos Mr Gormley went on numerous radio and TV shows promoting his tax reform and clearly stated what he was going to do. A lot of people were pi**ed off about this but he wasn't for moving. His mission was to force people to buy cleaner cars - which I did. He then changed his mind apparently and people like me get screwed...

Maybe it's just me, but I don't seem to actually understand a lot of the complaints being made in this thread.

Am I correct in saying that you bought a UK diesel after the budget announcement because diesel 2nd hand prices would drop after July?

The people hardest hit by this change in VRT are the people who bought diesels very recently or in the next few months (before July). After July you'd have imported your diesel for far less due to reduced VRT.
By bringing in your diesel before July you guaranteed that you'd pay higher VRT and be stuck in the higher Road Tax regime.


Of course I'm presuming you didn't import a gas-guzzling diesel, in which case I still don't understand your complaint...

mylestheslasher

You buy the diesel in UK now when prices are low. You park it up somewhere - in the north in my case. You bring it down South in July and then you pay the lower VRT/Tax. That was the plan.

-Chris-

mylestheslasher wrote: »

You buy the diesel in UK now when prices are low. You park it up somewhere - in the north in my case. You bring it down South in July and then you pay the lower VRT/Tax. That was the plan.

That plan still works. Bring it down post-July, pay the lower VRT on the lower OMSP. Price it cheaper than all the Irish cars, make your profit.

The only change is that now your car is taxed on the exact same basis as everyone else's car.

I think the back-pedalling has been fine, the last thing the motor industry needed was a two-tier tax system (I would say that though... ).
Those who import will still make their money, and if you ask me they'll still make nearly the same money - people wouldn't have paid a significant premium to get the lower road tax, it would just help the car sell quicker.

ninty9er

mylestheslasher wrote: »

You buy the diesel in UK now when prices are low. You park it up somewhere - in the north in my case. You bring it down South in July and then you pay the lower VRT/Tax. That was the plan.

You still pay the Lower VRT. If it's an Audi probably around 22%/24% so there's a 6%-8% VRT saving. The Annual Motor Tax remains on the Basis of CC, becasue that's the basis of the exact same "lower emmissions" Irish car will be paying.

You're getting an easy ride on VRT, what the fu<k is wrong with some people....never fupping happy:rolleyes:

The_Conductor

ninty9er wrote: »

You're getting an easy ride on VRT, what the fu<k is wrong with some people....never fupping happy:rolleyes:

Whats wrong with us?- It was sold as an environmental exercise. I am not in favour of preferential treatment being given to imported cars- the point which was made by the Minister is that the only reason it would not be rolled out to all motorists on renewal of motor tax is because its impossible to get accurate CO2 measures for existing Irish cars on the road. I proved this wrong- by sourcing certificates as far back as 1998 (now from 4 manufacturers) and based on this- suggested that the Minister allow all motorists to opt-in to the new scheme where the appropriate documentation existed. Unfortunately the Minister seems preoccupied with addressing industry concerns, and not the concerns of the motoring public.

I also suggested that if it were a genuine environmental levy- that motor tax would be abolished altogether and replaced with a couple of pence on a litre of fuel- which would be an accurate tax on people's fuel consumption. This was also ignored.

Thats why I'm annoyed.