New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

The_Conductor

Bee wrote:

Ireland is taking advantage of the change to Diesel being forced thru' by the Green Party resulting in higher prices

Actually- I don't understand why diesel is more expensive. Its an intermediate product of the refining process, which is far easier and about 20% cheaper than petrol to produce, and less duty and taxes are paid on it at the pump- so there is no inherent reason why its more expensive than petrol. While I accept that global oil prices have risen- surely this should be reflected in exactly the same manner in petrol prices? Who is making all this extra money by ripping off consumers- the oil companies? If so- surely its collusion? Why is nothing being done about it (other than the random action against a distributor here and there)?

The_Conductor

astraboy wrote:

On a personal note I think this whole carbon taxing is bollix and will have zero effect on carbon emissions or "climate change".

The big problem of course, is the government have traditionally failed to invest sufficiently in public transport, so far a lot of people the use of private transport is their only option. The idea that you can tax them off the road (by paying 3 quid a go on the M50 or by any other means) is pure and utter nonsense- if you don't give them a viable alternate. For most people that simply doesn't exist.

While its all well and good to promote change by encouraging people to buy more efficient cars when they are purchasing new vehicles, an obvious inequity exists, in that people who made a proactive purchasing choice in the past are being penalised (along with everyone else) as not only do they not get recognition of their foresight in purchasing said vehicle, but the resale value of their vehicle is decimated with the new tax regime.

positron

I am looking to buy second hand (budget ~ 10k) and assuming the VRT and motax changes are going to bring down the second hand car prices, could anyone tell me when the new (hopefully low) 'open market sale prices' would make their way on to the customs/VRT reference tables?

I would like to buy/import one today, but concerned about some sort of mad depreciation, if the prices go down drastically in two months, or next Jan etc etc.

Apologies for the novice questions!

Stevie Dakota

What are we all going to blather on about on July 2nd?

The_Conductor

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

What are we all going to blather on about on July 2nd?

How much the current proposals have depreciated the value of our pre-existing secondhand vehicles by?

Seth Brundle

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

What are we all going to blather on about on July 2nd?

I suspect loads of people will join the motors forum to ask us why their petrol car won't sell, or why the 1.4 petrol is so much dearer than the 2L diesel, etc.!

ninty9er

astraboy wrote: »

Ya, our previous punititave tax that considered any car over 1.6 "big" is to blame for the 1.6 and 1.8 saloons on the road.

As for your second point, I would consider myself an intelligent person, but I CANNOT work out what that has to do with motortax?! People importing cleaner cars should have the option of lower road tax if possible, weather the car is 08 or 04.

On a personal note I think this whole carbon taxing is bollix and will have zero effect on carbon emissions or "climate change".

You missed my point. 1.8 cleaner than 1.6, but we used to have no 1.8s in that size of car.

We don't have carbon taxing here.

The reason you can't tax a 04 imported car differently from a 04 Irish car is the same reason you can't charge a different rate of income tax on an Electrician vis-a-vis a Plumber....It makes no sense.

The_Conductor

ninty9er wrote:

You missed my point. 1.8 cleaner than 1.6, but we used to have no 1.8s in that size of car.

We don't have carbon taxing here.

The reason you can't tax a 04 imported car differently from a 04 Irish car is the same reason you can't charge a different rate of income tax on an Electrician vis-a-vis a Plumber....It makes no sense.

First of all- we do actually have carbon taxing- particularly in the business sector. Look at the provisions in the Finance Act for taxing fuel supplies for the business sector which came in this years budget. It may not have gotten much fanfare, but it certainly is there.

Secondly- sense doesn't enter the equation. It makes no sense to tax a 1.8 that my great aunty only uses to collect groceries twice a week the same as it does for my 1.8 that does a 160 mile roundtrip to Portlaoise every day. What would make sense is abolishing road tax and chucking a couple of pence on a litre of fuel (maybe add more than a couple of pence and abolish the road tolls too). It would massively streamline collection of the taxes, abolish at a stroke all those driving without tax, and release almost 1,600 people for duties in other areas.

Thirdly- your example of taxing a plumber differently from an electrician does in actual fact occur in other industries, perhaps not with income tax- but with other taxes. Some services are 0% rated, others 12% while others still are vatable at the full whack. Thats tax just as much as income tax is.

Since when has sense entered the equation with any of the barmy notions our politicians come up with?

Dermo123

smccarrick wrote: »

Secondly- sense doesn't enter the equation. It makes no sense to tax a 1.8 that my great aunty only uses to collect groceries twice a week the same as it does for my 1.8 that does a 160 mile roundtrip to Portlaoise every day. What would make sense is abolishing road tax and chucking a couple of pence on a litre of fuel (maybe add more than a couple of pence and abolish the road tolls too). It would massively streamline collection of the taxes, abolish at a stroke all those driving without tax, and release almost 1,600 people for duties in other areas.

It makes perfect sense to put the tax on fuel. However our politicans are too afraid of putting upward pressure on inflation now and at any other time you care to mention. Also the road hauliers lobby groups etc would go on about it too. We need to bite the bullet on this one and get it over and done with.
~In 1977 Jack Lynchs FF government promised to abolish motor tax but found that a load of civil servants would be unemployed as a result so they made all cars up to 2litre £5 annual road tax to give them something to do. This is probably another factor in why it is not been considered today.

The_Conductor

I very much doubt work arrangements are one of the factors stopping them from doing this- there are after all fewer than 1/4 as many civil servants now as there were when Jack Lynch was in office (mind you the admin staff in the HSE, that monster, in particular have ballooned). With the recruitment embargoes of the past few years, and the upcoming embargo, it would be very very welcome to have those additional staff freed up for extra duties, as most government departments are stretched to breaking point (the decentralisation mess being one of the main drivers of the collapse).

So- the road hauliers would lobby against the proposals- feck them. If they wanted to cave in- give them a tax credit for vouched fuel receipts for a particular amount with the understanding it would be reduced on an annual basis to nil at year 6 or whatever. It wouldn't be too difficult to administer- they already have sections dealing with fuel refunds for disabled drivers after all. Scale it up and off you go. Use some of the 1,600 odd staff freed up by the abolition of roadtax to administer it- whatever. It would work.

We do need to bite the bullet and tell the lobby groups that its going to happen, to accept it. There is no alternate. As a low elasticity of demand commodity- while it may have a negative effect on headline inflation figures, it would bring in the bacon- and tax revenues are suffering badly at the moment, a hell of a lot worse than the media are suggesting.

The biggest problem of all is the parochial politics and gombeenism which is rife in the country. People refuse to look at the bigger picture and see what we can do to better the country as a whole. Its all- what can I get for my village, my town, my county. Shag those jackeens in Dublin- they have the Luas- we should reopen a railway that we closed 40 years ago, because no-one wanted to use it. Lets build a dual carriageway to X- so what that its only popular two months of the year, if we have a decent summer. Why not build a bridge here- it'll look good- regardless of whether there is nothing to connect it to on the other side. Lets whack a few roundabouts on this road here- so what that its a national road- it'll open up developmental potential. I'm so sick and tired of our flakey gombeen politicians.

PauloToole

Is there any Irish websites that give out the CO2 emmissions on new cars?

I can't see how UK websites are relevant here in Ireland.

paddy111199

Hi All,

Im buying a 2007 ford focus zetec 1.6 5 door H/B in the north.

I calculated the VRT a few days ago and it cost about 3k and now it costs about 5k when i put it through the calculation on the ROS VRT site.

Also the rate is coming in at 25% of the OSMP, but i cant see this % in the legislation (25%)??

Thanks for all your help!

Esel

paddy111199 wrote: »

Hi All,

Im buying a 2007 ford focus zetec 1.6 5 door H/B in the north.

I calculated the VRT a few days ago and it cost about 3k and now it costs about 5k when i put it through the calculation on the ROS VRT site.

Also the rate is coming in at 25% of the OSMP, but i cant see this % in the legislation (25%)??

Thanks for all your help!

The current VRT rates are based on engine size.

The_Conductor

PauloToole wrote: »

Is there any Irish websites that give out the CO2 emmissions on new cars?

I can't see how UK websites are relevant here in Ireland.

Why not- we sell the exact same makes and models?

Soarer

paddy111199 wrote: »

Hi All,

Im buying a 2007 ford focus zetec 1.6 5 door H/B in the north.

I calculated the VRT a few days ago and it cost about 3k and now it costs about 5k when i put it through the calculation on the ROS VRT site.

Also the rate is coming in at 25% of the OSMP, but i cant see this % in the legislation (25%)??

Thanks for all your help!

Hopefully you got a printout of the cheaper rate.
Same thing happened to me when I imported my car. Original rate was €1500 less than the rate on the day I went in to vrt it. Luckily I had a printout of the cheaper rate and they told me they'd have to check with Rosslare to see what to do. Got a phonecall a couple of days later that they'd accept the lower rate.

lester76

guys im lost here, im trying to sell a 02 subaru wrx at the mo @ bought a 97 primera as a run around now both cars are taxed for the yr.when that runs out what will i be paying. nissan is 1.6 ?? my subaru is up for sale with 3mths not a phone call. this car is truely spotless no joke asking 17500 so with this new tax its worth fuk all to me now. is that what we are facing me & many other people trying to sell at the minute??

Esel

lester76 wrote: »

guys im lost here, im trying to sell a 02 subaru wrx at the mo @ bought a 97 primera as a run around now both cars are taxed for the yr.when that runs out what will i be paying. nissan is 1.6 ?? my subaru is up for sale with 3mths not a phone call. this car is truely spotless no joke asking 17500 so with this new tax its worth fuk all to me now. is that what we are facing me & many other people trying to sell at the minute??

Jebus lester, did you not do any searching here?

Both these cars will remain on the 'old' cc-based road tax system.

The_Conductor

lester76 wrote: »

guys im lost here, im trying to sell a 02 subaru wrx at the mo @ bought a 97 primera as a run around now both cars are taxed for the yr.when that runs out what will i be paying. nissan is 1.6 ?? my subaru is up for sale with 3mths not a phone call. this car is truely spotless no joke asking 17500 so with this new tax its worth fuk all to me now. is that what we are facing me & many other people trying to sell at the minute??

If you hop on autotrader and buyandsell- there just appear to be a startling number of wrx'es on the market at the moment. Your price seems about right (depending on exact spec, mileage and condition)- just everyone seems to be trying to offload theirs at the moment.

positron

Apologies if this has been asked before, search didn't help as the words are very general and frequently used.

Question: The current engine size based motor tax rates applicable for pre Jan2008 cars - how long is that going to be valid? Are they likely to go up in next two, three years? Or will it last for the life of these pre-08 cars?

Thank you...!!!

Esel

From http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/vrt-new-tax-regime.htm today:

Imported Second-Hand Vehicles

When an imported second-hand vehicle is presented for registration, the levels of CO2 emissions at the time of manufacture must be declared to Revenue on form VRT4 (the form used by an individual to register a second hand car).

If the vehicle originated within the EU, the declaration must be supported by documentary evidence confirming the level of CO2 emissions of the vehicle to the satisfaction of Revenue.

Revenue will accept a range of documentation for this purpose. Among the documents deemed satisfactory at present are:

• the Certificate of Conformity (if it is available),
  
• a printout from the Revenue ROS Enquiry System where the level of CO2 emissions is shown www.ros.ie
  
• evidence included on a previous registration document e.g. the UK V5,
  
• the level of CO2 emissions stated on a previous National Car Test performed elsewhere within the EU provided the CO2 stated is that given at the time of manufacture,
  
• A print out for the vehicle from the DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) web site, www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk
  
• A printout from the VCA (Vehicle Certification Agency) web site
  
• A printout from the SEI (Sustainable Energy Ireland) website
  
• A certificate from the manufacturer or main distributor stating the level of CO2 emissions.

If the vehicle originated in Japan, documentary evidence of the level of CO2 emissions will also be required.


The following documentation must be presented with the VRT4:

• Japanese Export Certificates or Japanese Certificates of Cancellation of Motor Vehicle Registration,
  
• a printout from the Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport showing the level of CO2 emissions for the model on the certificate

Revenue are currently reviewing the additional documentation that may be required for vehicles imported from other non EU States e.g. Singapore and the United States.

Esel

positron wrote: »

Question: The current engine size based motor tax rates applicable for pre Jan2008 cars - how long is that going to be valid? Are they likely to go up in next two, three years? Or will it last for the life of these pre-08 cars?

The assumtion is that this system will remain into the future, but who can say for sure? I'd say it would be a brave government indeed that would try to migrate the pre-2008 cars to a CO2-based regime.

Are these rates likely to go up? Probably, but the February increase of 9.5%+ was the first increase since 2004 afair.

PauloToole

smccarrick wrote: »

Why not- we sell the exact same makes and models?

At the same price?

I would love to be able to buy cars in Ireland at UK Prices.

Feck it one better.

If VRT was eliminated completley we actually have the cheapest retail prices for cars in Europe ( per double illegal tax )

You lot would be taking in our used cars instead.

Mind you with the way the Euro is going, we might not have to wait too long.

PauloToole

Before you offer me a trip up north I'll just say that
I wouldn't really find it too convinient to have to drive from Cork to Derry to get a service during the warranty period.

That would add up quick smart

The_Conductor

PauloToole wrote: »

Before you offer me a trip up north I'll just say that
I wouldn't really find it too convinient to have to drive from Cork to Derry to get a service during the warranty period.

That would add up quick smart

In practice, most garages will allow you to transfer their warranty to a main dealership of your choice. I get my Volvo serviced in Koping on the Naas Road- on a warranty from a garage in Aldershot- Surrey.....

Talk to them, and organise something that suits you.

TheBigEvil

Sorry if this has been already posted, but does anyone know where the government are taking their CO2 figures for new cars from for the new tax rates?

Are they relying on the manufactures "Technical Specifications" or is there an international standard for monitoring CO2 emissions

tinkerbell

Hi everyone

Quick question, if you order a new car and it comes in say a week before July 1st, do you only pay the VRT on it once it is registered rather than when it arrived in the country? So if I register on July 1st I'll get the lower rate?

Thanks!

The_Conductor

tinkerbell wrote: »

Hi everyone

Quick question, if you order a new car and it comes in say a week before July 1st, do you only pay the VRT on it once it is registered rather than when it arrived in the country? So if I register on July 1st I'll get the lower rate?

Thanks!

You are supposed to register it within 2 working days. They can ask you to prove when it arrived in the country (with a ferry ticket or whatever). Its not worth the hassle of playing with them........

PauloToole

smccarrick wrote: »

In practice, most garages will allow you to transfer their warranty to a main dealership of your choice. I get my Volvo serviced in Koping on the Naas Road- on a warranty from a garage in Aldershot- Surrey.....

Talk to them, and organise something that suits you.

The theory sounds great.

In practise though it ain't nessacerily so.

A good friend brought in an 07 Range Rover Sport HSE from England.

The main dealers wouldn't service it for him here even.:mad:

tinkerbell

smccarrick wrote: »

You are supposed to register it within 2 working days. They can ask you to prove when it arrived in the country (with a ferry ticket or whatever). Its not worth the hassle of playing with them........

I thought it only gets registered once the reg plates are put on it? Which would mean that a car dealer could have a few cars in the showroom but not register them til somebody actually purchases them.

The_Conductor

tinkerbell wrote: »

I thought it only gets registered once the reg plates are put on it? Which would mean that a car dealer could have a few cars in the showroom but not register them til somebody actually purchases them.

Yes. You're not a car dealer though- the situation is entirely different for a private person bringing in a vehicle.

Heres a link from citizensadvice that may be of help.