New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

zzzzzzzz

Great. Thanks for the replies...

Next question: are the emissions based on the car as new or are they going to test your emissions?

i.e. the car is an '04 so the emissions may have increased over the last 4 years?

And if so, is there any way of estimating emissions on a car without testing it?

The_Conductor

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

Great. Thanks for the replies...

Next question: are the emissions based on the car as new or are they going to test your emissions?

i.e. the car is an '04 so the emissions may have increased over the last 4 years?

And if so, is there any way of estimating emissions on a car without testing it?

Emissions are based on the car as new, and not current levels. Manner of "estimating" emissions is via the Certificate of EU Conformity.......

bibi-phoque

I just wish SIMI would update their website if their information is wrong (i.e. imported car that were first registered in another country before january 08 will get taxed on the CO2 system if CO2 over 225g).
I bought my imported RX-8 last november and SIMI's website is still telling me that my road tax will go from 560€ to 2000€...
I called them and they told me that the information on the website is true (even though I understand it's not, based on E92's comment).
All the imported RX-8 owner are freaking out, when I bought mine last november there were 25 on sales (carzone), now there are 75...

ninty9er

bibi-phoque wrote: »

I just wish SIMI would update their website if their information is wrong (i.e. imported car that were first registered in another country before january 08 will get taxed on the CO2 system if CO2 over 225g).
I bought my imported RX-8 last november and SIMI's website is still telling me that my road tax will go from 560€ to 2000€...
I called them and they told me that the information on the website is true (even though I understand it's not, based on E92's comment).
All the imported RX-8 owner are freaking out, when I bought mine last november there were 25 on sales (carzone), now there are 75...

Completely untrue. Do NOT ring a monkey in SIMI for this. Ring the Dept. of Environment. Did you clearly state that your car is pre '08 and is already on Irish plates??

bibi-phoque

ninty9er wrote: »

Completely untrue. Do NOT ring a monkey in SIMI for this. Ring the Dept. of Environment. Did you clearly state that your car is pre '08 and is already on Irish plates??

I did yes, but I don't think she was listening to me. She kept saying that the updated information was on the website.
I will contact the Dept. of Environment tomorrow to see what they have to say.

BNC

As ninty9er said - incorrect

Sunday Business Post (02/03/08) - "...Gormley is also planning to make amendments regarding the taxation of imported vehicles. The system as announced in December would have meant that any newly-imported cars would be taxed according to CO2 emissions.

The minister is now planning to apply the CO2-based system only to imported cars that were registered in their country of origin after January 1, 2008.

The amendment would eliminate a situation in which imported second-hand cars would be taxed on a different basis to second-hand cars of Irish origin."

Original full article

The_Conductor

As it stands the legislation has not been amended. The current information on the SIMI website is in actual fact, at this point in time, factually correct. They may intend to amend the legislation to correct the anamoly- but they'd better get their skates on.......

I understand it was expected to pass through committee stage in early April- does anyone know what actually happened?

-Chris-

bibi-phoque wrote: »

I did yes, but I don't think she was listening to me. She kept saying that the updated information was on the website.
I will contact the Dept. of Environment tomorrow to see what they have to say.

But if your car's in Ireland and already on Irish plates, you won't be affected at all by this. Am I missing something?

unkel

smccarrick wrote: »

God, this is such a screwed up mess.

QFT

I sometimes try and think how it would feel if I were the minister responsible for this. The shame. The embarrassment. The stress put on people because they are unable to find out for sure what situation they are in. People not knowing what to do next - buy a second hand car here, or import one, or buy a new one? What are the implications? Only a few people (like those reading this thread) are aware of it now (or we think we are - we can't look around the next whimsical corner)

/rant

Esel

bibi-phoque wrote: »

All the imported RX-8 owner are freaking out, when I bought mine last november there were 25 on sales (carzone), now there are 75...

Now's the time to buy, folks! Drive a hard bargain.

AudiChris wrote:

But if your car's in Ireland and already on Irish plates, you won't be affected at all by this. Am I missing something?

No, you are bang on.

bibi-phoque

Well, even though I am on Irish plate, my car was registered in January and based on the information found on SIMI my road tax would have switched to the CO2 based system (because >225g).

BUT!!
SIMI updated their website!
http://www.simi.ie/Files/SIMI_RoadTax_V7.pdf

New information :

Imported cars first registered in previous country before the 1st
January 2008 will be Road Taxed at current rates (cc based). Used
vehicles first registered in previous country after 1st July 2008
will be based on the CO2 Road Tax rates while those registered in
other member states between the 1st January and 1st July 2008
will be taxed on whichever rate is lower.


They have removed the section when CO2 is over 225g.

Feeling much better now!! I love my RX-8 but not to the point of paying 2K€ of tax...

SAABMAN

So car tax rates haven't changed since 2004----watch them climb now!!!
If it was possible to improve your CO2 readings, could you get your road tax lowered, say by an LPG conversion or using vegetable oils as fuel or E85?

Esel

SAABMAN wrote: »

So car tax rates haven't changed since 2004----watch them climb now!!!
If it was possible to improve your CO2 readings, could you get your road tax lowered, say by an LPG conversion or using vegetable oils as fuel or E85?

Eh, the rates changed in february?

Only 'official' figures are acceptable. Anyway, you would find it difficult, at the very least, to match that figure, never mind beat it. Imo, of course.

shamboo

And we all thought there was a chance of saving money on the vrt come July. Here's something I found on a government website that proves that whatever way the government sets this thing up they are not going to lose a cent. Note the highlighted sentence.

The results presented in Table 1 show the reduction of CO2 emissions achieved through restructuring of the VRT system, based on the current vehicle fleet in Ireland. It is clear that there are significant gains that can be made by restructuring the vehicle tax system to a CO2 emissions basis. This measure is designed to be revenue neutral – i.e. the revenue to the Exchequer remains the same as before.

Table 1: Proposal to restructure VRT rates and CO2 emissions saved.

CO2 emissions bands

No. of vehicles (2005)

Current VRT (%)

New rate (%)

Current factor

New factor

Change in CO2 emissions (t/annum)

0-100g/km

0

22.5

0

0

0

0

101-120g/km

875

22.5

10

19687.5

8958

99.8

121-135g/km

11094

22.5

12

249615

135486

1228.2

136-150g/km

28927

22.5

17

650857.5

487296

1874.0

151-165g/km

52593

22.5/252

25

1210628

1276619

-1359.6

166-185g/km

45096

25/302

30

1148145

1271805

-2670.6

186-225g/km

18675

30

40

560250

677955

-2377.0

226-400g/km

6830

30

45

204900

274654

-1875.9

Total

164090

4044083

4132772

-5081.1

The_Conductor

Note: those figures are based on buying habits in 2005, and an assumption that people's buying habits will remain constant under the new regime- which is not a valid assumption.

E92

I'd expect that they'll be putting up VRT at the next budget, and if not then certainly in Budget 2010.

I'd imagine what will happen is that the rates will remaion unchanged, but that cars will have to have lower CO2 than now in order to be in the same VRT band.

shamboo

I don't think it really bothers the government what buying habits they base their figures on. Thier just making sure that their at no loss what so ever when the new vrt rates come into affect in July.

shamboo

http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/vrtconsultdoc06.pdf

Above link gives some details of the propositions. Note page 4 Administrative, Taxationand Economic Efficiency. Point 4 clearly states: Any new VRT system should be internally balanced and consistent as a tax. Blatantly illegal.

copacetic

you seem to be saying that you can't save money as an individual with the new rules. You clearly can, by buying a more economical and lower emission car. The point of the change isn't to reduce tax take but to encourage people to buy such cars. The calculations are done based on the fact that there will be people still willing to buy high vrt/tzx cars.

Nearly all changes to tax systems are revenue neutral, they have to be, otherwise where would the money come from? Illegal? How so?

shamboo

Well their stating that the vrt is a tax and I'd assume after buying the car you'll already be paying a tax on that, thats a double taxation. Correct me if I'm wrong but can they do that?

E92

Most of the manufacturers are planning to pass on the VRT savings fully to customers. So there is plenty of scope to save money if you're prepared to investigate all possibilities! So far BMW/MINI have officially confirmed they will(and have prices to prove it), Audi will also be passing on the VRT savings fully too, and preseumably the rest of the VAG range will follow suit, and I'd be expecting that all other makes will be announcing their July prices in the not too distant future, and will be passing on any VRT savings that are there.

This clearly benefits people who have more money that those who cant afford to buy new cars.

Currently you can have a car with lower CO2 emissions than a brand new car yet must pay higher car tax. Surely this kind of system is wrong? Charging two people differently like that.

E92

shamboo wrote: »

Well they're stating that the vrt is a tax and I'd assume after buying the car you'll already be paying a tax on that, thats a double taxation. Correct me if I'm wrong but can they do that?

When you buy a car you pay one price that includes VRT, VAT etc.

Of course they can do it, haven't they been doing it for years:D? There's nothing illegal about VRT, if it was illegal then the EU would have gotten rid of it for us ages ago(and besides the Portugese, Dutch, Austrians and in particular the Danish all have forms of VRT, Austria's isn't that bad unless you have like say an M5, the Portugese and Dutch is similar to our own, and the Danes have a level of VRT that makes ours seem perfectly reasonable)!

shamboo

So basically what your saying is that this dream of an 'Open Market Europe' doesn't actually exist at all??

The_Conductor

shamboo wrote: »

So basically what your saying is that this dream of an 'Open Market Europe' doesn't actually exist at all??

Errr- you have it spot on there.......

shamboo

No to Lisbon so as well I suppose. If the open market is a farce then I've no doubt that will be too.

workaccount

Guys, I have an old 1.4 nissan for knocking around for the last 2 years or so. I don't think there is c02 data on this...so what's the store in July then? Do I all of a sudden have to pay 2k on a 1.4?

The_Conductor

workaccount wrote: »

Guys, I have an old 1.4 nissan for knocking around for the last 2 years or so. I don't think there is c02 data on this...so what's the store in July then? Do I all of a sudden have to pay 2k on a 1.4?

Only if its not Irish registered before 1.07.08- and there is no CO2 data available for it...... If its Irish registered before that date- its still roadtaxed on the cc of the engine- and will remain so.

E92

Only 08 cars can face the possibility of road tax on CO2. ALL cars registered after July, be they new or imports will have VRT done on emissions though.

All cars before 08 will continue to have road tax done on engine size.

positron

Deleted User wrote: »

This clearly benefits people who have more money that those who cant afford to buy new cars.

Currently you can have a car with lower CO2 emissions than a brand new car yet must pay higher car tax. Surely this kind of system is wrong? Charging two people differently like that.

+1