New motor tax and VRT regime. Links + calculations

The_Conductor

Try telling that to the Minister- he doesn't want to know.
You'll get a nice letter from him, with a copy of the announcement attached, but you'll be lucky if it actually manages to address anything at all in your letter. It is crazy, and it is unfair. According to the Department running two systems side by side is unworkable- yet somehow they have no difficulty doing this for cars registered in the first half of 2008. Just remember who did this next time it comes around to a general or local election.......

ninty9er

Deleted User wrote: »

This clearly benefits people who have more money that those who cant afford to buy new cars.

Currently you can have a car with lower CO2 emissions than a brand new car yet must pay higher car tax. Surely this kind of system is wrong? Charging two people differently like that.

Just like when you go to Lourdes as an assistant on a pilgramage and you buy something in a shop, speaking English and you pay €45, but you only pay €15 if you speak French???

True story!

Marcus.Aurelius

Are you actually trying to defend this obvious manipulation of "green" idealogy into a tax system scam by a silly reference to a completely unrelated issue?

I didn't know Bertie Ahern was on boards.ie!

copacetic

maybe the political discussion should be on politics and we can keep this thread for actual information on how it works for peoples cars?

daisychain

positron wrote: »

+1

I strongly agree. Why are they effectively encouraging people to buy new cars when the car dealers have perfectly good 2nd hand cars sitting on forecourts that they can't give away? What happened to reduce, reuse recycle?

I heard once that the manufacture of every new car and all of its' various components from start to finish produces as CO2 than the cars' engine will produce in it's lifetime. I can't remember where I heard this so I have no idea if it's true or even close to being true.

unkel

copacetic wrote: »

maybe the political discussion should be on politics and we can keep this thread for actual information on how it works for peoples cars?

Yes please!

Theta

daisychain wrote: »

I strongly agree. Why are they effectively encouraging people to buy new cars when the car dealers have perfectly good 2nd hand cars sitting on forecourts that they can't give away? What happened to reduce, reuse recycle?

I heard once that the manufacture of every new car and all of its' various components from start to finish produces as CO2 than the cars' engine will produce in it's lifetime. I can't remember where I heard this so I have no idea if it's true or even close to being true.

It might make old diesel cars harder to sell but people who don't want to buy diesels will still buy pre 08 petrol second hand I reckon.

dingding

http://www.lexus.ie/Images/8956_lexus_ireland_price_list_downloadable_new_tcm593-779564.pdf

Lexus price list under new VRT regime.:eek:

copacetic

dingding wrote: »

http://www.lexus.ie/Images/8956_lexus_ireland_price_list_downloadable_new_tcm593-779564.pdf

Lexus price list under new VRT regime.:eek:

cheers for that, didn't realise the 220d was coming down so much

E92

Lexus have been "amending" spec levels. That's how they've come down so much.

Road tax on them is still miles higher than in most other cars.

IS220d is €430, same as a BMW 325i or a 330d:eek:!

A 2.0 TFSI 211 bhp Audi A4 will be in the €290 road tax category, now a 211 bhp petrol vs a 175 bhp paraffin stove, well there's no contest there really!

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Lexus have been "amending" spec levels. That's how they've come down so much.

Road tax on them is still miles higher than in most other cars.

IS220d is €430, same as a BMW 325i or a 330d:eek:!

A 2.0 TFSI 211 bhp Audi A4 will be in the €290 road tax category, now a 211 bhp petrol vs a 175 bhp paraffin stove, well there's no contest there really!

i think the price will be more important than the 140 difference in tax E! hardly miles higher.

With those prices lexus may have made a very smart move. any details of the spec changes?

E92

Well a 320d or an A4 2.0 TDI 170, the IS's closest rivals are only €150 to tax.

The point of the previous post was to show that the emissions of the IS are so high that it's matched by a 3.0 6 pot petrol and diesel, both with considerably more power, and a turbocharged petrol that also has more power is a lower emitter of CO2.

Believe me once people get around the CO2 thing they'll be as obsessed about it as the currently are about engine size when it comes to demand in the used car market.

Lexus may be cutting corners on spec levels to get prices down, and it's good for everyone's sake that they are putting prices down by more than we all thought they would, but they're in trouble after July, as they no longer look anywhere near as good value as before.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Well a 320d or an A4 2.0 TDI 170, the IS's closest rivals are only €150 to tax.

The point of the previous post was to show that the emissions of the IS are so high that it's matched by a 3.0 6 pot petrol and diesel, both with considerably more power, and a turbocharged petrol that also has more power is a lower emitter of CO2.

Believe me once people get around the CO2 thing they'll be as obsessed about it as the currently are about engine size when it comes to demand in the used car market.

Lexus may be cutting corners on spec levels to get prices down, and it's good for everyone's sake that they are putting prices down by more than we all thought they would, but they're in trouble after July, as they no longer look anywhere near as good value as before.

not sure I agree, the spec on the lexus was already way better than a bmw or audi. they could really cut it back and still be equivalent.

By the looks of this pricelist the lexus will be a lot cheaper than the bmw or the audi and they don't have 'lower end' models all over the road.

No indication on the site of any spec changes, but may not have been updated yet.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

not sure I agree, the spec on the lexus was already way better than a bmw or audi. they could really cut it back and still be equivalent.

Which is exactly why they are no longer as good value as before;)!

They were by your own admission way ahead on the spec count, now they're not in a bid to keep prices down and remain competitive.

unkel

dingding wrote: »

http://www.lexus.ie/Images/8956_lexus_ireland_price_list_downloadable_new_tcm593-779564.pdf

Lexus price list under new VRT regime.:eek:

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting!

Look at the shocking price increases in all Lexus cars except small engined IS cars. Did anyone else spot they got their manual / auto version prices mixed up?

The most interesting is that they shaved so much of the price of the small IS diesels, although they are high CO2 compared to the competition as mentioned. Anyone care to go into details about the spec reduction if any? I find it hard to believe they can reduce the price that much by reducing spec a bit. I'm speculating here, but I'd imagine the reductions are part of a Lexus strategic choice to hold onto market share at least for the IS, whatever the impact is on margin. That's what I would do if I were Toyota and I found myself snookered in a local market...

E92

IS220d Sport: 195 g/km:eek:! How did they manage to get a 2.2 litre diesel to do such a high figure?

For the GS they took out things like the leather and wood steering wheel and the active seat ventilation on some of the higher spec models.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Which is exactly why they are no longer as good value as before;)!

They were by your own admission way ahead on the spec count, now they're not in a bid to keep prices down and remain competitive.

no, what I am saying is that if the spec comes down it will be still be as good or better than the equivalent audi or bmw and based on these prices they arre also cheaper. So they will still be good value in comparison to the competition. Especially when you look at their retained value which is miles better than a bmw or an audi...

I'll also note that you mentioned a few times that the spec is going down, not that I don't believe you but is all you are going on the report in the paper a long while ago about the GS spec you quote above? If so maybe we should wait for actual information?

E92

copacetic wrote: »

Especially when you look at their retained value which is miles better than a bmw or an audi...

I'll also note that you mentioned a few times that the spec is going down, not that I don't believe you but is all you are going on the report in the paper a long while ago about the GS spec you quote above? If so maybe we should wait for actual information?

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the Irish place Lexus on such a high pedestal that can't dare to be touched the way they do with Toyota.

I was just looking at them on carzone. They do seem to be cheaper than the competition, when it comes to the IS, but not by a lot, and they were cheaper new anyway.

When it comes to the GS, quite frankly it's a bit of a bargain, even at one year old. I was able to find a 07 GS for €54k. The cheapest 07 520d that doesn't need to pay VRT is €41k. Now considering that after July the cheapest 520d is €46,057 and the cheapest GS is €75,200, it just goes to show that you can really get a good bargain with Lexus as they get bigger(it also shows how much they depreciate). Even going as close to comparable models, the cheapest 07 530d is €60k(it's €71,664 in July as the cheapest 07 I could find is an Auto model). I didn't check Audi, but I'd expect to find something similar. The big engines(well big for Ireland of course:D) and lack of a diesel on all models bar the IS doesn't help things.

As for the spec amendments, unfortunately I don't know the exact details of these:o, but yes the GS ones are the ones that were in the papers a few weeks ago.

In the IS, the base model has an auto dimming rear view mirror in the UK, it doesn't here. Perhaps that's an example of something that's been left out for July? Tbh I didn't bother looking for spec levels before the July prices came out for Lexus(I didn't expect we'd have them so soon on account of sister company Toyota(Lexus and Toyota here are imported by the same company in the same way VW, Audi, Skoda and Merc are imported by NDL, though for all bar Merc that will be changing in October) still struggling desperately to shift excess 1.6 Avensi out of the showroom with the "save up to €1600 if you buy now offer" which has been going on for several weeks now) and it is quite possible that they haven't updated the spec levels yet, as while VW have updated the list price for cars for July, the option prices are still displaying pre July prices.

dingding

In the UK for the RX 400h for example they have 3 spec levels against the Irish one level. I think if they reduce the specs in the car, they should still have the options to have a higher spec.one as well.

E92

With the GS they moved to make it available in 2 trims for the hybrid version when they facelifted it earlier in the year.

I'm sure Lexus will still sell you a hybrid with plenty of goodies if you want it:D!

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the Irish place Lexus on such a high pedestal that can't dare to be touched the way they do with Toyota.

I was just looking at them on carzone. They do seem to be cheaper than the competition, when it comes to the IS, but not by a lot, and they were cheaper new anyway.

When it comes to the GS, quite frankly it's a bit of a bargain, even at one year old. I was able to find a 07 GS for €54k. The cheapest 07 520d that doesn't need to pay VRT is €41k. Now considering that after July the cheapest 520d is €46,057 and the cheapest GS is €75,200, it just goes to show that you can really get a good bargain with Lexus as they get bigger(it also shows how much they depreciate). Even going as close to comparable models, the cheapest 07 530d is €60k(it's €71,664 in July as the cheapest 07 I could find is an Auto model). I didn't check Audi, but I'd expect to find something similar. The big engines(well big for Ireland of course:D) and lack of a diesel on all models bar the IS doesn't help things.

As for the spec amendments, unfortunately I don't know the exact details of these:o, but yes the GS ones are the ones that were in the papers a few weeks ago.

In the IS, the base model has an auto dimming rear view mirror in the UK, it doesn't here. Perhaps that's an example of something that's been left out for July? Tbh I didn't bother looking for spec levels before the July prices came out for Lexus(I didn't expect we'd have them so soon on account of sister company Toyota(Lexus and Toyota here are imported by the same company in the same way VW, Audi, Skoda and Merc are imported by NDL, though for all bar Merc that will be changing in October) still struggling desperately to shift excess 1.6 Avensi out of the showroom with the "save up to €1600 if you buy now offer" which has been going on for several weeks now) and it is quite possible that they haven't updated the spec levels yet, as while VW have updated the list price for cars for July, the option prices are still displaying pre July prices.

could be, and am suspicous of why the sport has a much bigger gap, but assuming the IS220d spec is as on the website for the new prices then they will sell plenty competing with less reliable, less well equipped, more expensive and more common BMWs and Audis..

shamboo

Need a bit of advice. Brought a car back from the uk and have been driving it while waiting for the uk reg book. I'm now going to pay the vrt on the car and the mileage thats on the car now doesn't match what is written on the uk log book at time of sale. Also the date of sale is 4 weeks ago. Will I have to back date it or whats the story?? Can I say that the car was still in the uk and been driven over there?? Will they ask to see proof of the date the car was imported here??
Any advice really appreciated.

Ragglepuss

The last time I brought in a car from the Uk the only thing that the tax office required was the tax book. they never asked any questions about when it was first brought in. If you wait until July the VRT rates are coming down anyway so you will probably end up saving a couple of quid if you hold out for another month or so.

shamboo

The time the 2 vrt calculators were up on the net I checked it out and its cheaper for me to register before July as the emissions are high. The date of sale is on the uk tax book so they'll probably ask why it wasn't registered a few days after that. Plus the mileage is on it and there's almost 2000 extra miles on it since it was sold.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

could be, and am suspicous of why the sport has a much bigger gap, but assuming the IS220d spec is as on the website for the new prices then they will sell plenty competing with less reliable, less well equipped, more expensive and more common BMWs and Audis..

It *appears* that Lexus will be taking a hit and absorbing some of the increases.

My apologies for implying that they wouldn't in previous posts:o.

Where this leaves spec reductions alluded to by me earlier I don't know, but best to wait and see what happens on Lexus's website;).

King Kelly

Not sure if this has been posted previously but attached are official Citroen prices post July.

(Delivery etc excluded)

Ragglepuss

Have you the link for the 2 vrt calculators were? MY car is an Audi A3 2.0 TDi and Im nearly sure that by holding out til July there is a saving of about 1400/1500 euros. better double check though

Ragglepuss

I just need a bit of clarification on the VRT system which is coming in in July. I have bought a 2004 Audi A3 in from the Uk and just want to ensure that the new VRT rates apply for second hand cars as well as new cars? I was looking up on the net and some sites just specify new (2008) cars but my understanding is that is applied to both new and second hand cars registered after July?
Also, with regards the Road tax, this just applies to the 2008 cars registered and not second hand cars? Any clarification would be appreciated!

Soarer

Ragglepuss wrote: »

I just need a bit of clarification on the VRT system which is coming in in July. I have bought a 2004 Audi A3 in from the Uk and just want to ensure that the new VRT rates apply for second hand cars as well as new cars? I was looking up on the net and some sites just specify new (2008) cars but my understanding is that is applied to both new and second hand cars registered after July?
Also, with regards the Road tax, this just applies to the 2008 cars registered and not second hand cars? Any clarification would be appreciated!

You're right on both counts.
The VRT will be based on co2 for both new and s/h cars.
Roadtax will be CC based for pre-2008 cars and co2 based for 2008 cars.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

It *appears* that Lexus will be taking a hit and absorbing some of the increases.

My apologies for implying that they wouldn't in previous posts:o.

Where this leaves spec reductions alluded to by me earlier I don't know, but best to wait and see what happens on Lexus's website;).

I'm actually still no sure E, the website appears to be all old info apart from the pricing so you can't be sure as yet. However calling them the same models and giving price reductions would appear to be the spec couldn't change anyway..

It's interesting anyway, I wonder will this delay the audi pricing yet again!