Have you noticed...

SimpleSam06

Nice men from the council knocking holes in the path in front of your driveway lately? Been wondering what that was all about? Well heres what I think:

They are putting in water meters to charge you for water usage every year.

Ireland has an average of 1 meter of precipitation per annum, or 6.148 cubic kilometers of water over Galway County alone, or roughly 76 million litres per person per year in Galway.

Even using one percent of that leaves you with 760,000 litres of water, per person, per year in Galway, falling free form the heavens.

And don't tell me they need it to pay for the new filtration plant, they got ten million for that years ago and never bothered using it before half the city start shitting rainbows. Slow the flow my fuckin ring.

I would be delighted to be corrected on any point of this.

galwayrush

i don't mind paying for water if we get a good service.
On the other hand, how many more Stealth Taxes will we have to suffer over the next few years?:(

Zzippy

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Nice men from the council knocking holes in the path in front of your driveway lately? Been wondering what that was all about? Well heres what I think:

They are putting in water meters to charge you for water usage every year.

I would be delighted to be corrected on any point of this.

Come on man, its not always the wacky conspiracy theory thats right!
They're actually installing the last stage of the underground communications network to be used by the alien invaders, and I for one welcome our new lizard overlords!

SimpleSam06

galwayrush wrote: »

i don't mind paying for water if we get a good service.

Yes, "half the city shitting rainbows" is good service. And there are no guarantees whatsoever that the water is fit for human consumption now or in future, regardless of rates. This whole slow the flow crap is a crass money grab (paid for by your taxes, I might add).

And yes, we have a whole new series of metal plates in the paths outside now, with "water" stamped on them.

cornbb

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yes, "half the city shitting rainbows" is good service. And there are no guarantees whatsoever that the water is fit for human consumption now or in future, regardless of rates. This whole slow the flow crap is a crass money grab (paid for by your taxes, I might add).

And yes, we have a whole new series of metal plates in the paths outside now, with "water" stamped on them.

If they were gonna start metering water I'm sure it'd be all over the papers, a big public outcry, etc. I don't think there are water charges anywhere in Ireland. Maybe they're just installing pipes or something.

But yes I agree with you, Galway CC are a bunch of inept money-grubbing imbeciles, from my experience with them.

SimpleSam06

cornbb wrote: »

If they were gonna start metering water I'm sure it'd be all over the papers, a big public outcry, etc. I don't think there are water charges anywhere in Ireland. Maybe they're just installing pipes or something.

A lot of the farms do pay water charges, I'm not sure why though, they have to pay for maintenance to the water equipment themselves. Also I think some streets do pay water charges, College road is one according to a man in a B&B I was talking to recently. What these lads are doing is drilling a section of concrete in front of each house and installing something, before covering it up again, no connections to anywhere. Still, as I said, I'd be delighted to be corrected on any of this.

cornbb wrote: »

But yes I agree with you, Galway CC are a bunch of inept money-grubbing imbeciles, from my experience with them.

I'm contemplating having private detectives rifle through some rubbish bins in an effort to put a stop to this runaway train...

Proxy

As far as was explained to me a long time ago (when I still worked in GCC - cheers for the remark there cornbb :rolleyes:), the charging will be for agricultural areas and businesses who use a fair bit of water. There will be usage levels brought in, and most domestic houses will be well below these usage levels and not have to pay anything, perhaps maybe an annual stamp duty, like on ATM cards.

This plan is part of a huge plan for improvement of services to the entire country in the National Development Plan from (I think) 2000 up to 2006, and now continuing. Click on the preceding link to see the PDF relating to water services.

This, like many things, has probably been or will be revised in the meantime though. The NDP report on water usage in 2006 found that Ireland was "consuming and producing a sub-optimally large amount of water...not only do we overspend on water treatment and distribution but we also overspend on waste-water collection and treatment" (paraphrasing). And so, water charges or stamp duty may be brought in at a later time, but not for a while yet - expect it to be all over headlines when it does get mentioned for the first time though.

You can do a search on http://www.ndp.ie/ for more info on it.

Robbo

I heard it's to do with water fluoridation, at the behest of non-nationals. Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

biko

Robbo wrote: »

I heard it's to do with water fluoridation, at the behest of non-nationals.

Damn Australians. Up to no good again :mad:

cornbb

Proxy wrote: »

(when I still worked in GCC - cheers for the remark there cornbb :rolleyes:)

Nuffin' to do with the staff - just a comment on the bureaucracy . Thanks for the informed post.

SimpleSam06

Proxy wrote: »

The NDP report on water usage in 2006 found that Ireland was "consuming and producing a sub-optimally large amount of water...not only do we overspend on water treatment and distribution but we also overspend on waste-water collection and treatment" (paraphrasing).

Water is not in short supply in this country. So the idea of "overuse" is phenomenally mind bogglingly silly. What this means in real terms is that the government doesn't want to spend any money on infrastructure to bring us in line with the rest of the first world, preferring instead to give themselves enormous pay rises.

Robbo wrote: »

I heard it's to do with water fluoridation, at the behest of non-nationals. Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?

Robbo, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream.

Ice cream, Robbo, children's ice cream.

A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Proxy

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Water is not in short supply in this country.

No, but the other 193 countries in the world might get annoyed if we use it all. (Use being another term for pollution). When you wash yourself, your dishes, make your tea, whatever, you are temporarily polluting water. It needs to go through a natural process to be purified again.

So the idea of "overuse" is phenomenally mind bogglingly silly. What this means in real terms is that the government doesn't want to spend any money on infrastructure to bring us in line with the rest of the first world, preferring instead to give themselves enormous pay rises.

Thats an irrelevant issue in this case. The NDP is apart from the benchmarking/Sustaining Progress wage increases. The statement of overuse comes from conducting variance studies on optimal guidelines that are in line with every country in the world.

I am in no way an expert in the field, but i've read up on this in the past out of vague interest.

SimpleSam06

Proxy wrote: »

No, but the other 193 countries in the world might get annoyed if we use it all. (Use being another term for pollution). When you wash yourself, your dishes, make your tea, whatever, you are temporarily polluting water. It needs to go through a natural process to be purified again.

Let me get this straight, you're telling me that Ireland, lets just take for example Galway, is in danger of polluting more than seventy five million litres of water for every man, woman and child in the county, every year, and thus throwing the global fresh water supply into imbalance? As for a natural process, unless I'm missing something, all it goes through is the sea.

And they thought General Ripper above was the only one with fluid problems!

Proxy wrote: »

Thats an irrelevant issue in this case. The NDP is apart from the benchmarking/Sustaining Progress wage increases. The statement of overuse comes from conducting variance studies on optimal guidelines that are in line with every country in the world.

How does that work? There are wide, wide variances in the quantities of usable water in every country in the world, as well as how it is dealt with. Or is Swaziland in line with Norway?

leninbenjamin

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

mind control, that's all it's there for. they want us to consume our lives away...

interlocked

All non-domestic properties nationally are to be billed for water and sewage on a metered basis with effect from 01/01/08. (sewage charges will be calculated on a water in - sewage out basis)

Some local authorities are going to miss the deadline but all have to comply eventually.

Non domestic in this sense really means any property that is not a domestic property, i.e. schools, churches, sports clubs, charities, community centres, as well as the more obvious such as offices, pubs, shops, factories, b&b's farms, field troughs etc.

The rationale behind it, is the polluter pays principle, the charges are designed to cover the cost of treating the water, pumping it from source,maintaining the pipe network etc.

All the above is deriving from EU directives, so far domestic properties are exempt, but we're one of the very few countries in Europe that doesn't charge for domestic usage.

And remember they were only abolished in 1996, in a stunt by FF designed to win a byelection in Dublin.

po0k

Peak-Water.

Better start storing up on Gatorade.
It's got Pro-Immuno-Electrolytes!

SimpleSam06

interlocked wrote: »

All the above is deriving from EU directives, so far domestic properties are exempt, but we're one of the very few countries in Europe that doesn't charge for domestic usage.

Yeah my problem is when we have a government giving itself large bonuses and pay rises on one hand, and introducing new taxes on the other. As for businesses, they already pay rates to the council, in exchange for what exactly?

JohnCleary

Bloody Foreigners - I Blame Them!!!

interlocked

Yeah my problem is when we have a government giving itself large bonuses and pay rises on one hand, and introducing new taxes on the other. As for businesses, they already pay rates to the council, in exchange for what exactly?

Business Rates are essentially a local tax to pay part of the income of local authorities. Prior to 1977, there were rates on all domestic and business properties and also on land.

Domestic Rates were abolished after the 1977 election, land rates were found unconstitutional in 1984, so all that's left is business rates.

In a urban L.A. such as Galway City Council business rates would provide a large source of income, because obviously there is a lot of businesses in the city, in the case of the county council, business rates would provide maybe 10-15% of income.

In the case of water charges, most business are already on either a fixed annual charge or a metered charge. In the case of businesses with fixed charges, some will pay less under metering some will pay more.

The system can be boiled down to the less you use the less you pay and vice versa. Local authorities are precluded from making a profit on water metering but they must cover the cost of providing water.

It's inevitable that householders will be charges for water in the future. it's already a scarce resource in Dublin, there's already proposals to source water from the Shannon for the city. You can't expect a business to be paying for every litre of water it uses, while a next door house can leave a tap or hose running indefinetely without any penalty.

super-lloyd

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

Come on man, its not always the wacky conspiracy theory thats right!
They're actually installing the last stage of the underground communications network to be used by the alien invaders, and I for one welcome our new lizard overlords!

I'm with you on that man!

SimpleSam06

interlocked wrote: »

Business Rates are essentially a local tax to pay part of the income of local authorities.

Taxes pay for vital services, what services do local businesses gain in return for paying rates? Is it not enough that they pay the same taxes and fees as everyone else, not to mention actually employing people?

Edit: Let me put it another way, if businesses refused to pay rates, what services could be witheld?

interlocked wrote: »

It's inevitable that householders will be charges for water in the future. it's already a scarce resource in Dublin, there's already proposals to source water from the Shannon for the city.

The European Environmental Agency used Dublin as a showcase of "worst case scenario" urban planning in March of this year. Pointing to Dublin as a comparison with Galway is deceptive at best.

Dublin is a shoddily put together shambles with a crap infrastructure which lends itself to all sorts of problems, most of which can be laid squarely at the feet of incompetent local and national authorities. Had proper planning and infrastructure been put in place from the outset, Dublin wouldn't hold that glamorous title.

Rather than trying to shuffle in the steps of Dublin's clay feet, our local authority should be looking after Galway's needs. Of course that would preclude them from scalping a few more euros from a city already reeling from recent job losses (with plenty more on the horizon).

Water shortage indeed. Its like they take their tips on urban planning from what they see about hollywood on national geographic or something.

po0k

You're grossly over-simplifying the situation with angry "Down with the Establishment" rhetoric.

SimpleSam06

SyxPak wrote: »

You're grossly over-simplifying the situation with angry "Down with the Establishment" rhetoric.

Any particular points that set off your rhetoric-sense?

interlocked

Taxes pay for vital services, what services do local businesses gain in return for paying rates? Is it not enough that they pay the same taxes and fees as everyone else, not to mention actually employing people?

Edit: Let me put it another way, if businesses refused to pay rates, what services could be witheld?

Business Rates comprises 31% of Galway City Council's budget of €88m in 2008. I'm sure the ramifications of nonpayment are obvious.

If a business refuses to pay rates they are summoned to the District Court, in extreme cases they can be jailed, same as refusal to pay income tax.

I'm sure you regard the provision of water, sewage systems, roads maintenance, street lighting, refuse collection etc. as vital services.

The issue of financing of local government has proven largely intractable since the abolition of the other forms of property rates. Other propsals such as local area taxes, as in the US, have been mooted, but they would be incredibly difficult to implement in a small largely rural country like Ireland.

Or would you prefer the abolition of local government and have everything controlled by cental government in Dublin, hmmm:rolleyes:

Let me retiterate, water metering is a nationwide initiative, based on the pollutor pays principle, this is one of the cornerstones of EC environmental policy, the same principle is behind the whole issue of waste collection etc.

SimpleSam06

interlocked wrote: »

Business Rates comprises 31% of Galway City Council's budget of €88m in 2008. I'm sure the ramifications of nonpayment are obvious.

Yes, many gold plated non contributory pensions might have to be brought in line with the rest of the workforce, and some five figure bonuses might have to not be paid. That should cut down the drain on the coffers considerably - now there's a flow I wouldn't mind slowing.

interlocked wrote: »

If a business refuses to pay rates they are summoned to the District Court, in extreme cases they can be jailed, same as refusal to pay income tax.

So eh, no services will be curtailed; its a pay us or go to prison cos we say so tax?

interlocked wrote: »

I'm sure you regard the provision of water, sewage systems, roads maintenance, street lighting, refuse collection etc. as vital services.

Why should businesses have to pay more than anyone else for these services? You think businesses don't pay income tax?

interlocked wrote: »

The issue of financing of local government has proven largely intractable since the abolition of the other forms of property rates. Other propsals such as local area taxes, as in the US, have been mooted, but they would be incredibly difficult to implement in a small largely rural country like Ireland.

Mm. I say we cut down on waste in local government first, starting with councillors' salaries. Then we take a long hard look at how they are putting in water meters without the press or anyone else being informed.

interlocked wrote: »

Let me retiterate, water metering is a nationwide initiative, based on the pollutor pays principle, this is one of the cornerstones of EC environmental policy, the same principle is behind the whole issue of waste collection etc.

Oh yes, on that same issue of waste collection, this whole water metering scheme wouldn't have anything to do with the council having its arse handed to it by the city bin company, would it? I wonder what principle was involved there?

You are missing the point in any case, in a country as rife with fresh water as Ireland, the idea of having to pay for water is ludicrous. Just to refresh your memory, seventy five million litres annually for every man woman and child falls from the sky. If our infrastructure wasn't third world, it would be a non issue.

Not that even having the money meant the council did anything with it, how many years were they in posession of the funds to revamp the water treatment plant and did nothing? Can we assume a fairly similar turpitude with any funds garnered from water rates? Or will it go straight in the bonus kitty?

Mrs OBumble

Tell me that you're kidding, and that we do already have flouride in the water here??? Or do I have to start taking tablets for it ????