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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Garda refused pistol licence

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    #62
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Just a small point but relevant to the news article in the Meath Post. The reference to 'Olympic Pistols' as stated by the Super in the case could well refer to the SIG P226 (depending on the model - I've chosen the standard P226).

    ISSF Rule 8.16.0 gives the specifications for all pistols used in Olympic competition. The specifications for centre fire pistol are as follows (Sig P226 characteristics are in brackets):

    Maximum weight: 1400gr (950gr)
    Minimum trigger pull: 1360gr (DA 4480gr, SA 2016gr)
    Maximum barrel length: 153mm (112mm)
    Maximum sight radius: 220mm (160mm)
    Measuring box: 300mm x 150mm x 50mm (195mm x 140mm x 38mm)
    In addition, compensators, muzzle brakes, perforated barrels or any device functioning in a similar manner are not allowed (The Sig does not appear to have any of these)

    ISSF Rule 8.4.4.4 states that any calibre between 7.62mm and 9.65mm (.30" - .38") may be used. That obviously includes 9mm.

    Having said all that, you would be putting yourself at a serious disadvantage using such a firearm in the 25m pistol competition. It's a very tough course of fire (30 shots at the precision target - 50mm 10 ring, 30 shots in 3 seconds each at the rapid fire target - 100mm 10 ring) single handed.

    But saying it's not an Olympic pistol is clearly not trrue. The P226 appears to meet all the specifications.


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    #63
    fishdog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭fishdog


    The P226 appears to meet all the specifications.

    RRPC after reading your interesting post I dont know how anyone can win an arguement with you. Im glad you are on our side!!:D:D:D


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    #64
    dromey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dromey


    When i was in court i had a copy of the ISSF rule book and an abridged rule book for the World Police And Fire Games with me. Judge Brophy wouldnt even look at them because they were printed from the internet. He said that he would only accecpt a proper published rule book. Seems to me no matter what evidece I provided, Judge Brophy had his mind made up before i went into court.:rolleyes:


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    #65
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    When are you due before the circuit court?


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    #66
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,356 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    sdonn_1 wrote: »
    In fact 3,000 out of 14,00 are licenced, according to the Garda website - although whether or not they carry them is as far as I know their own choice. (Except ERU etc obviously).

    Where exactly did you see this? Figures if seen are 12,000 members of the force, plus civilian member (1,200). This includes 1,700 detectives who carry firearms, and the ERU of course.

    Maybe Dromey could be more exact and up to date


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    #67
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    dromey wrote: »
    When i was in court i had a copy of the ISSF rule book and an abridged rule book for the World Police And Fire Games with me. Judge Brophy wouldnt even look at them because they were printed from the internet. He said that he would only accecpt a proper published rule book. Seems to me no matter what evidece I provided, Judge Brophy had his mind made up before i went into court.:rolleyes:

    I know a man who has a spare one, I'm sure he'll let you have it for cost :D


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    #68
    fat-tony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Sure will;)


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    #69
    dromey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dromey


    how's it going,
    i've been away from the boards for the last couple of days. thanks a million to everyone who sent me messages of support over the last week. i will be contacting you in turn over the next couple of days. RRPC i would be very interested in the ISSF rule book for sale. could you send me a private message with contact details of the bloke that has it for sale:D

    happy christmas everyone!!


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    #70
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    dromey wrote: »
    how's it going,
    i've been away from the boards for the last couple of days. thanks a million to everyone who sent me messages of support over the last week. i will be contacting you in turn over the next couple of days. RRPC i would be very interested in the ISSF rule book for sale. could you send me a private message with contact details of the bloke that has it for sale:D

    fat-tony's your man :). Send him a PM and I know he'll oblige.
    happy christmas everyone!!

    Likewise.


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    #71
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    dromey wrote: »
    happy christmas everyone!!

    Many happy returns


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    #72
    dromey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dromey


    How's it going everybody? Have any of you heard about the court case in Tuam District Court on Friday the 2nd of may 2008? The Superintendent refused a pistol licence to two individuals on the grounds that the caliber was not suited to target shooting, going down the road of military and police use only! The two applicants took a case to the District Court to appeal the Superintendents decesion to refuse licences. The State produced their expert witness from balistics section in HQ backing their theory that 9mm is not suited to target shooting. The two applicants had expert witnesses from the target shooting world to rebut the evidence of the Gardai. After hearing the evidence the Judge of the District Court GRANTED the licences!!! As far as i am aware this is the first case under the new Criminal Justice Act where an applicant has successfully appealed a Super's refusal through the District Court. At long last we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnell!!!:p:p:p


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    #73
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Who were the "experts" from the taget shooting world.

    I dislike the use of the term "experts" as it means they must know everything on their chosen subject, which I feel is a bit of a big claim.


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    #74
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Also dragging experts from the ballistics section from Dublin to all the courts must be costing a pretty penny. Surely this type of expenditure is uncalled for?


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    #75
    chem
    Registered Users Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭chem


    Another two cases coming up this wednesday. Navan super is up for not granting pistol licences.


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    #76
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    Hi lads, just ordered a 9mm P226 today. Applying for the license tomorrow as soon as I get the serial number.
    Hope I'm not gonna have too much hassle, don't know of any pistol owners near me so I haven't a clue how I'm going to get on???


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    #77
    dromey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭dromey


    Hi Murph,
    Hope you dont have too much grief trying to get a licence. there was a landmark win on the 25th of April this year in the high court. As a result of the case a Superintendent has to make a subjective assessment of the applicant and not the firearm applied for. If you have already got a firearms certificate then De Facto the Superintendent can not refuse you the 9mm. You will be required to show legal and just use of the firearm, membership of a certified range that runs competitions will suffice! best of luck with application.;)
    Dromey


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    #78
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    Hey Dromey, I don't already hold a firearms cert, this will be my first gun (fingers crossed). However I am a member of a Pistol and Rifle Club and have a gun cabinet securely mounted in my home. Do you shoot pistol yourself?


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    #79
    Bananaman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Bananaman


    Murph,

    Sounds like you have your bases covered.
    Make sure to get yourself entered in competition to show what use you have for your firearm.

    B'Man


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    #80
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    An alarm, non monitored, at least, would be advisable, as one applicant recently had to give an undertaking to the court to install one after winning his case

    I'd say you will get an inspection from the CPO also


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    #81
    patbundy
    Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭patbundy


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    An alarm, non monitored, at least, would be advisable, as one applicant recently had to give an undertaking to the court to install one after winning his case

    I'd say you will get an inspection from the CPO also

    second that.just had the cpo,got the ok


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    #82
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    Hi lads, I hope to enter into competitions as soon as I get the license, if I get it that is:confused: and eventually join the IPSA and get a competition license for practical comps.
    Is an alarm a requirement now Bunnyshooter? What part of the country was that case, and for what kind of pistol?
    Any inspection would be welcomed of course.
    Are you both pistol owners?


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    #83
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    murph226 wrote: »
    Hi lads, I hope to enter into competitions as soon as I get the license, if I get it that is:confused: and eventually join the IPSA and get a competition license for practical comps.
    Is an alarm a requirement now Bunnyshooter? What part of the country was that case, and for what kind of pistol?
    Any inspection would be welcomed of course.
    Are you both pistol owners?

    Yes I am a pistol owner.

    The new legislation includes various grades of security for various types of firearms. Will find link to it............

    Now even though the legislation is not enacted the Gardai are enforcing it, nothing new there, Any pistol applicatin, except those used in "Olympic" shooting is now under the highest grade. Therefore, two cabinets/safes (to store seperated components) and a non monitored alarm.

    The case was spoken of here on boards recently, will get link...........


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    #84
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    Thanks Bunnyshooter, Jaysus I'm broke after handing over the cash for the gun, membership, insurance and cabinet. This is getting more expensive by the day.
    I'm all for security but 2 safes and an alarm, they're beginning to take the mick, what next a third safe for ammo???


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    #85
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    murph226 wrote: »
    .........what next a third safe for ammo???

    Shuuuuuuuuuuuush. Don't give 'em ideas :D

    I know it's very expensive alright. :(

    I was lucky enough I was able to get setup in stages. Anyone setting up now has to do it all in one go. :o


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    #86
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    Is this for definite, will I have to get another safe and fit an alarm? An extra safe wouldnt be too bad but an alarm aswell?
    Did you get rid of/replace the Tangfoglio?


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    #87
    thehair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭thehair


    murph226 wrote: »
    Is this for definite, will I have to get another safe and fit an alarm? An extra safe wouldnt be too bad but an alarm aswell?
    Did you get rid of/replace the Tangfoglio?
    i have two safe /1 for rifle .22 rinfire/2 for the ammo and rifle bolt:)


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    #88
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    2 safes aint so bad, just cant afford an alarm right away. Did you have to get an alarm and inspection by a CPO?


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    #89
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    murph226 wrote: »
    Is this for definite, will I have to get another safe and fit an alarm? An extra safe wouldnt be too bad but an alarm aswell?
    Did you get rid of/replace the Tangfoglio?

    More than probable two x safes and alarm :(

    Sold tanfoglio and bought a ruger single six 22lr/22 wmr revolver, way cheaper to run a pistol on 22lr and easier to get ammo.


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    #90
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    murph226 wrote: »
    2 safes aint so bad, just cant afford an alarm right away. Did you have to get an alarm and inspection by a CPO?

    When I got my first pistol, which was a 22lr ruger mark iii s/a and subsequently the tangfoglio no I just had a safe. Recently applied for a 6.5x55 rifle and had to get alarm (monitored).

    Lads in my area with pistols and/or more than 4 x firearms are at present being contacted by FO and advised to get alarms before renewals as without alarms renewals may not go through

    Hold tight on alarm but I will be stunned if they don't insist on it for licence


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    #91
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    Yes I am a pistol owner.

    The new legislation includes various grades of security for various types of firearms. Will find link to it............

    Now even though the legislation is not enacted the Gardai are enforcing it, nothing new there, Any pistol applicatin, except those used in "Olympic" shooting is now under the highest grade. Therefore, two cabinets/safes (to store seperated components) and a non monitored alarm.

    The case was spoken of here on boards recently, will get link...........

    Not quite the case there bunny. I was at the FCP conference and the CPO guy that gave the talk on security and other stuff outlined the requirements:

    Level A - Gun cabinet secured to solid wall and floor and preferrably concealed.
    Level B - As per Level A plus an alarm and separate safe for ammo and bolts etc.
    Level C - As per Level B plus alarm must be monitored, 5 lever locks on doors and windows in good condition.

    Level A - 4 or less .22 cal rifles and shotguns (over 4 is Level B)
    Level B - 4 or less Fullbore Rifles (Over 4 is Level C)
    Level C - Pistols.

    That's all pistols, whether they run the marathon in the Olympics or do the high jump at the community games.


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