SUV Scum

Cmar-Ireland

The simple fact is, they are here to stay. No matter if it's a small SUV (Jimny) or full size (LC Amazon).
The anti brigade are just going over and over the same old argument's with little hard facts to offer.
As has been posted many times, there are big cars that pollute as much and take up as much road space. Many MPV's will block your view as much as an SUV, so there is another argument out the window.

This thread has simply boiled down to a "I don't like SUV's" so I don't want them on the road.

As for me, I'm regretting selling mine, but when I do change the car, I'll be buying another SUV and a proper one at that, full sized.

dodgyme

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

I'll be buying another SUV and a proper one at that, full sized.

good man, your great.

cancan

dodgyme wrote: »

good man, your great.

OK - can you now take your bus taking, bicycle riding opinions to a different forum now? Gets a bit annoying seeing a guy spend his days in a Motors forum discussing SUV's and cars when

a) his primary mode of transport is a bike/bus
b) knows nothing about motors/cars
c) has banged on about the same nonsense for page after page, high on opinion and low on fact.
d) has waaaay to much time on his hands to be a meaningful contributor to society.
e) we all heard you the first time.

Perhaps if you spent a little less time in forums you know little about, you could get a pay rise and graduate from the bus you complain about so much to a spiffing 1.1 eco friendly motor.

Stark

cancan wrote: »

Seems to be an awful lot of trucks involved in collisions in ireland.
Another 2 people killed in limerick yesterday.
Training doesn't mean much when one is coming at you at speed.

Ever try and stop a 40ft from 60mph in a hurry?


Anyway this thread is about vehicle types - driver training is another issue entirely.

Well we've already seen moves to keep HGVs out of the city centre as they're so dangerous and take up loads of road space. I wouldn't mind seeing congestion charges like in London as a follow on from this. That way road space in the congested centre is reclaimed, and people can still have their large comfortable car for long trips. Though I'd also like to see those congestion charges going straight towards improving public transport alternatives for people and that's not likely to happen with the current government.

nytraveller

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

As for me, I'm regretting selling mine, but when I do change the car, I'll be buying another SUV and a proper one at that, full sized.

Get the Hummer, just to piss off dodyme!!:)

dodgyme

cancan wrote: »

you could get a pay rise and graduate from the bus you complain about so much to a spiffing 1.1 eco friendly motor.

Again part of the stupid attitude that has this country's public transport system a laughing stock. If you take a bike or public transport you must be poor before you "graduate" to a car. What a stupid argument. Public transport is the way a city like dublin should work not SUV's. Firstly I have the money to buy whatever I want. If you read my posts you'd know that and I never said I took the bus.? So much for me rabbiting on? However I should use public transport more and cut down on car usage and maybe you should also.

cancan

dodgyme wrote: »

Again part of the stupid attitude that has this country's public transport system a laughing stock.

dodgyme wrote: »

If you read my posts you'd know that and I never said I took the bus.?

Oh Sorry - Someone must have hacked into your account and posted this

dodgyme wrote: »

...... I was going into town from D15. The bus is approx 1 per hr. I was waiting 50 mins and a bus arrives with 'out of services' on it. Everybody else at the bus stop had got taxis. The bus stopped to let someone off so I got on since it was packed and obviously not out of service. I asked the driver where the 6:15 was and he said that was him. I said why the out of service on the bus, he said he was mad late and leaving us to the village (ie. blanch). He then didnt go thru the shoppin centre and dropped everyone in blanch village. I had to get a taxi from there I was so late at that stage.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54621064#post54621064

And you wonder why people buy cars....
And I wonder why we are at page 25...

Cmar-Ireland

dodgyme wrote: »

good man, your great.

Damn right!!!

nytraveller wrote: »

Get the Hummer, just to piss off dodyme!!:)

I wish . Can't afford a Hummer.............yet!

dodgyme

cancan wrote: »

Oh Sorry - Someone must have hacked into your account and posted this


And you wonder why people buy cars....
And I wonder why we are at page 25...

Yes I have taken a bus wow, but most people in dublin take a bus every now and again. I do not take a bus regularly. Infact my complaint on the other forum was about the last two occasions I took a bus which was only twice in the last year, because I can cycle most places. But I would like to see public transport increased and made more user friendly and I dont wonder why people buy cars. I wish they didnt have too, but I do definately wonder about the SUV types.!

38psi

cambo_gueno wrote: »

these 20 odd pages of completely illogical anti-SUV sentiment has done one thing for me: made me want to go out and get me an SUV, just to piss off all you jealous, irrational, lemming-like anti-SUVers that don't have an original opinion between you.
It's absolutely fascinating to witness the levels of hypocrisy in this debate. Anti-SUVers calling pro-SUVers selfish for wanting to drive what they like and at the same time prescribing what everyone should be driving. Little tinpot dictators is all you are...

Well said I agree with you 100%

peasant

Is there a big "SUV SCUM" sticker to be got anywhere?

I want one now for my yoke

Anan1

peasant wrote: »

Is there a big "SUV SCUM" sticker to be got anywhere?

I want one now for my yoke

Be careful what you wish for...;)

rs

SUVs don't appeal to me, and I would never want to own one personally. There are lots of other cars that don't appeal to me either (All 1l cars for example), but I have no desire to see them off our roads. I don't expect everyone to drive crappy little 1.0L micras, unless they have to.

My case against SUVs is pretty similar to my case against guns. In safe and responsible hands both a gun and SUV will not kill anyone. However, in the hands of a moron both are extremely dangerous. So as much as I might want to have a gun sometimes, I'm quite happy that I can't legally own one because it means morons can't legally own them aswell. In my personal experience, there does seem to be an awful lot of morons out there.

Irish roads are already pretty dangerous. Someone dies on our roads almost every day. Many of these fatalities are children, who were obviously not driving at the time. They really don't care who was at fault in the accident.

Everywhere that has cars, also has accidents. As much as we do to prevent accidents, they will continue to happen as long as we use cars.

Bigger and heavier vehicles lead to more deadly accidents. If you put a 3,000kg Toyota landcruiser will bull-bars into an accident the chance of someone dying is obviously going to be higher than a vehicle that is smaller, lighter and does not have a large piece of meal attached to the front bumper. This is pure common sense.

So if you are a farmer, builder, etc and you legitimately need an SUV to do your job because you need to drive off-road, that's fine with me. It's a commercial vehicle in the same way as a van or truck is. It's a tool required to do a job and I can accept the increased risk to other road users because those people can't do their job without these tools.

But if you are a suburban family who own an SUV to commute or take the kids to school, I don't see why other road users should be put at more risk just to satisfy your ego. You can do your commute or drop your kids to school in a nice 3 series BMW, Volvo S40, VW passat, etc (all 5* cars). For most people these sorts of vehicles fully meet all of their requirements for a car and don't significantly increase the risks to other road users. As a bonus, you will probably also be contributing less CO2. If you want to show off, you can have the interior of the car filled with diamonds.

And for the record, I not an environmentalist, I do own two cars (NCAP 4*) with ISOFIX seats and a motorcycle (Not NCAP rated for some strange reason).

el dude

I'm sure it's been answered somewhere in this thread. But how do the bmw's and Mercs on the roads stack up to the jeeps?

Stark

el dude wrote: »

I'm sure it's been answered somewhere in this thread. But how do the bmw's and Mercs on the roads stack up to the jeeps?

From what I can see, generally safer for the occupants but pedestrians come off pretty much the same in a collision.

MCMLXXXIII

littlejukka wrote: »

you haven'd debunked anything. your grasp of physics seems to be causing you no end of confusion.


it's not up to the pedestrian to get out of the way, don't be ridiculous.

you seem to suggest that the size and height of an SUV is actually of benefit to the overall safety of other road users. i am bemused and more than a little perplexed at the jump in logic.

You don't need to tell me the rules of the road. This statement shows me that the pedestrian can have the same attitude as the accused SUV drivers. Sure, the vehicle should stop if there is someone in the road - but sometimes, it doesn't happen (which would be the driver's fault). Does that mean that the pedestrian should still walk into the road and just hope the car stops in time? Of course not. Use your head. People say that the SUV drivers try to rule the road - and it's that attitude that shows that even the anti-SUV brigade is also trying to rule the road. There is no difference in attitude no matter what you drive in, ride on, or where you walk. You cannot rule people with an iron fist, and you cannot rule out of fear. It ineffective and short-term. Stop trying to scare SUV drivers with safety and stop with the iron-fisted tax implementations you are also trying to scare everyone into agreeing to it.

Oh, and no - the height does not benefit other road users at all...it benefits the drivers of the SUV, which is what we all said earlier. Go ahead and call me selfish, but ask youself this: Is someone selfish because they lock their front door when everyone else in the neighborhood leaves them unlocked?

Tomas_V wrote: »

You've no idea about the reasons people object to SUVs. It's not that people can't see them coming, it's because the SUVs have blind spots. Have you not heard of the tragic accidents with parents running over then own toddlers in the driveway of their own home while driving SUVs? It's not the size, it's the shape that does the damage.

I heard of the accidents, and I also hear about celebrities doing cocaine in Los Angeles nightclubs. Does that mean that everyone that goes to an LA nightclub does coke? I wonder how many times a child has been run over by an SUV, compared to how many times in a small car. Anyone have the stats?

jmayo wrote: »

I do have a problem with people that buy certain 4x4s (the so called SUVs) becuase the guy nextdoor has one and they see them as a status symbol. They primarily use them for city driving and to make matters worse they are often driven by people that should not be driving a Fiat 500 nevermind a large vehicle.

Even worse is the Hummer that is now seen as the ultimate prize.
It is not even suitable as a military vehicle, ask the US army how many villages they got stuck in Bosnia with their humvees. They are too bloody large. Give me a Defender anytime.

Oh, I agree with that, but it is not exclusive to SUVs. It is done using all kinds of cars, clothing, home furnishings, and the like. I am not flashy, and think it's tacky when people are. But, some people like it - it's their style. I even usually feel uncomfortable around a group of people that follow ridiculous trends, but I don't harp on them for it. Why do you think American Motors (AM Corp division) sold Hummer to GM? It was not as useful as the US Military thought, but the company still needed to make the money off it - so why not sell it to regular people? It worked, and they are ridiculous. However, it is good because you can see what type of person they are if they drive an H2 or H3. There is BARELY ANY storage space and are now built to show wealth. At least I know they are coming and who I am dealing with then they "roll up" in a Hummer.

jmayo wrote: »

BTW I wouldn't go for Grand Cherokee if it is anything like the Cherokee.
Pile of ****.
Why not a Toyota or a European - Volvo, BMW or Land Rover ?

Hah, no way man - the Cherokee is on a totaly seperate frame, line, design, everything. Jeep considers the Cherokee a "Compact SUV" while the Grand Cherokee is "Full Size." I have driven many different kinds of cars - the Commander is too much, the Cherokee is too little, but the Grand Cherokee is just right.

rs wrote: »

But if you are a suburban family who own an SUV to commute or take the kids to school, I don't see why other road users should be put at more risk just to satisfy your ego. You can do your commute or drop your kids to school in a nice 3 series BMW, Volvo S40, VW passat, etc (all 5* cars). For most people these sorts of vehicles fully meet all of their requirements for a car and don't significantly increase the risks to other road users. As a bonus, you will probably also be contributing less CO2. If you want to show off, you can have the interior of the car filled with diamonds.

You are kidding, right? SUVs don't stroke an ego - the public's reactions are what the egotistic people are looking for. If I had my choice of a Rav4 or the BMW 3, I would take the 3. That is a car that is a lot nicer and stokes more ego than what the Rav4 can ever hope to be. Don't put all SUV drivers in the same category. As for the showy people, no one will see their interior diamonds if they are inside - so let them show off. That way - you at least know what you are dealing with when someone is on their way up a narrow road with cars parked on their side and lined up behind them, and they are forced to back up. If a diamond-lined-interior Passat pulled up and acted the same way as the woman in the SUV people would be wondering why she was so pompus on the road.

astraboy

dodgyme wrote: »

What a stupid argument. In that case why care about the starving in africa or the victims of the tsunami or the horrors of Baghdad. They dont affect my daily life either?
Regardless but SUVs do effect my daily life whether blocking my view, or nearly knocking me off the bike. A bad driver in an SUV is worse then a bad driver in a small car since the potential for problems increases with the size. But then again you selfish "Im alright Jack" ass attitude makes you argue in favour of them. The world is a bad place if your attitudes abound.

I do not have an "I'm all right jack attitude". If anyone has one, its you, a jumped up small minded person with the nerve telling someone what they should drive. Ya, everyone sell their SUV and buy a passat to keep your closed minded attitude happy.:rolleyes: And please explain to me how the horrors of Baghdad effect your daily life?! The fact is, as bad as these are, they do NOT effect you. No more then what I drive in another part of the country effects you. And if I ever drive an SUV past you when your cycling, I will ensure to be courteous, so it would make no difference if I was driving a car past you.

Now, please don't sprout the same crap about SUV's taking up more space, being more dangerous etc, as you do not compare apples with apples. I also, again, invite you to DEFINE exactly what an SUV is?

Regards, Astraboy.

Cmar-Ireland

This is a SUV,


And so is this,


Obviously the LC is much bigger, but that's the point.
As has been asked by me and others,
DEFINE an SUV

littlejukka

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

DEFINE an SUV

sports utility vehicle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle

jimmycrackcorm

I'm a tad concerned about how many people seem to need the visibility of being able to peer through the windscreen of the vehicle in front. How do these people manage to drive behind a truck?

astraboy

@ Littlejunka: Define an SUV in terms of length, wheelbase, drive, engine size? You cannot, as it describes a selection of cars too. So my point is an SUV is just a type of car, why should it bother you if someone buys one and uses it? To quote wiki:
"An SUV is a passenger vehicle which combines the towing capacity of a pickup truck with the passenger-carrying space of a minivan or station wagon together with on or off road ability." Now a RAV 4 or pajero junior certainly does not have the towing capacity of a pickup, and the load carrying space is probably far worse then a volvo estate. All 3 vehicles can fit in a regular car space without difficulty. The volvo estate is far bigger then the pajero and longer then the RAV4, yet you only have an issue with the person driving the SUV. If the volvo driver was driving their 2 kids to school in such a car would you have the same problem? Doubt it.

But the pictures make a good point. The Pajero junior is smaller then a golf, yet people still look at the driver as an evil entity just because they choose this car! This attitude and its origins escape me.

Cmar-Ireland

astraboy wrote: »

Sigh, posting a picture does not define an SUV. Define an SUV in terms of length, wheelbase, drive, engine size? You cannot, as it describes a selection of cars too. So my point is an SUV is just a type of car, why should it bother you if someone buys one and uses it?

But your pictures make a good point. The Pajero junior is smaller then a golf, yet people still look at the driver as an evil entity just because they choose this car! This attitude and its origins escape me.

I'm in favour of SUV's astraboy. Regret selling my last one and can't wait to buy another...

DonJose

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm a tad concerned about how many people seem to need the visibility of being able to peer through the windscreen of the vehicle in front. How do these people manage to drive behind a truck?

Correct, what about the commercial estates with blackened out windows, what about the VW Caddys. At this stage the SUV haters and running out of excuses. Most MPVs are higher than SUVs. Theres a huge range of SUVs that are more environmentally friendlier than a lot of cars. Theres a lot of cars wider than SUVs.

astraboy

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

I'm in favour of SUV's astraboy. Regret selling my last one and can't wait to buy another...

My bad my man!:) Don't let the antis put you off, drive what you enjoy driving!

I edited the post after littlejunka, the little hitler wanting everyone to be pulled out of their SUV's and beaten, posted up a Wikipedia link, failing yet again to properly define an SUV that they so hate.

DonJose

I just don't understand why you guys would you hate this,



Over this

astraboy

Yes but the accord was not made with slave labour/is safer if I'm stupid enough to walk out in front of you/pollutes less/does not keep reminding me I have no money/annoys me less when I'm on my high horse.:p

Cmar-Ireland

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

I'm in favour of SUV's astraboy. Regret selling my last one and can't wait to buy another...

My last one, wish I never sold it

Anan1

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

My last one, wish I never sold it

How much did you get for it, boss?

Cmar-Ireland

Anan1 wrote: »

How much did you get for it, boss?

Why?

littlejukka

astraboy wrote: »

I edited the post after littlejunka, the little hitler wanting everyone to be pulled out of their SUV's and beaten, posted up a Wikipedia link, failing yet again to properly define an SUV that they so hate.

hitler, beatings and hatred. interesting references, drawn from thin air. the defining characteristics of the people in this thread getting hysterical and non-sensical in their defense of SUVs is that they aren't able to express themselves very well, form a cogent argument or debate without resorting to hyperbole, aggression and varying degrees of mobbish behaviour. fascinating.