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SUV Scum
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:D:D:D
yup I begrudge and am jealous of SUV drivers!!!
I really want my car keyed and , every driver gunning for me........nah ill stick with my mini tbh, i can fit most things in a mini, that the irish suv driver puts in the huge suv. lol
obviously some suv drivers are considerate and very goo road users, however the majority are plonkers, and the suv is in poetic terms 'imagary' of their ego/view on life....get the **** out of my way because im above you:mad:0 -
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Although I am Irish, I now live in the US, where cars run on gas and not every SUV is a Jeep. By the way, I live in Detroit, and yes - I work in the auto industry. I currently drive a Chrysler 300, and am seriously considering a Jeep Grand Cherokee before the end of the year. Americans will do anything to make money - including selling large vehicles in Ireland, and the tabloids that speak against them...at the same time. I have seen a lot of arguments on this thread, but I do not see most of them as being legitimate.
Let's talk about driving personalities, the environment, safety, aesthetic appeal, and cost.
Driving Personalities-
Don't blame the SUVs for the bad drivers, I think bad drivers should be blamed for the SUVs. Bad drivers can't drive small cars. It doesn't matter what they do when they park because the car is so small when they park it's impossible to mess us, on the other hand, when they drive they get into accidents. Once they buy a large SUV, their poor parking jobs become more noticeable, but people become intimidated by 3 tons of steel barreling down the motorway. The intimidated drivers get out of the way, and the accident is avoided. Bad drivers know this, so they buy the SUV and make it popular. However, as stated time and time again - I don't think that all people that drive an SUV are poor drivers, SUVs just attract them more than a Mini would.
Environment-
Here we go. I would not consider myself an activist, but I am rather green. That being said, I think congratulations are in order for the makers of SUVs. The mileage and CO2 emissions are now similar to a 'regular' car. In fact, the 2008 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L V8 (with hybrid option) has similar mileage and CO2 emissions as the 3.5L V6 Toyota Camry. Of course a SMART or MINI will get better emissions, but I think the real question should be: If the full-size SUVs can get that kind of rating from the US Environmental Protection Agency, why are the passenger cars so high? Pound-for-pound, on a percentage basis, the new SUVs actually beat out the small cars.
Safety-
Yep, they roll over easier, but that is improving. Most of the previous Euro NCAP arguments assume that a Hummer is hitting a Fiesta. OK well guess what? Sometimes a small car hits an SUV. Then the SUV actually would be safer. Also, if an SUV hits a pedestrian, that person is going to be hurt. If a BMW 3 hits a passenger, you are going to have the same result. Plus - since the SUV is so much bigger than a car, you can see it coming from farther away. Another valid point is that the SUV blocks the view of the road. Well, just like a large truck, stay back a little further, and you can see just fine. Besides, if the car in front of you stops then you need to stop anyway - no matter what is actually going on in front of them.
Aesthetic Appeal-
Some people like sports cars, some like small cars, some like certain brands of cars better than others, and some people like certain sized of cars better than others. Some like big cars so they can feel powerful, some like them because it's easier to find in a parking lot, some like it because they go over rough terrain or tow boats every once in a while (even if the rest of the time they take a child to school). No one yells at the people that like small cars, even though they use just as much petrol as the new SUVs, use the same parking spots, and also haul the kids to school.
Cost-
SUVs already cost more to buy, they don't need to be taxed any more than they already are. Also, if people are so upset about the emissions because of petrol or diesel, then maybe the oil company should become more taxed, without allowing it to be passed down to the consumer. That way, those companies would invest in research for alternative fuels. It would be the responsibility of more than just the auto companies to find a better solution for the emissions coming out of today's vehicles. The reason the research is moving slowly is because it costs a lot to convert a station from regular petrol to a new alternative. If Shell, Mobil, BP, or anyone else does not NEED to spend the extra money, they won't.
Can't we all just get along? 0 -
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1) There is no child safety rating on the 2002 model
2) the reason they state for the loss of child safey rating on the 2006 model is lack of visibility of stickers (the do not place rear facing seat....etc)
3) My other points in the prior post
A) Height (Visibility)
b) Bonnet
c) Build quality
D) height Safer vs Smaller Cars.
A) Is yours a 2002 model or a 2006 model? I'm comaring latest generation C-Max with latest generation Santa-Fe, and in that regards C-Max seems to be marginally safer.
Obviously the folks in Euroncap are total eejits giving some other cars 5 stars while giving superiorly built non-sloped bonnet high Santa Fe only 4 .... are you serious? I gave you objective data and facts, now if you have weird notions in your head that's another thing but notions in your head don't translate to safety in real world. If you were really concerned and prioritised their safety there would be far better options.
C) Are you seriously telling me a Santa Fe is better built than a Toyota Corolla, a Ford or a Mazda?! And I thought priority was safety not build quality...?!0 -
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Guess who's back.....
I couldn't resist checking back on this one, and I am so sad that I read back through this thread, and tried to be as objective as I can.
Really and truely, if anyone cares to read through this again, carefully, you will see that there is very little fact provided by the Anti-SUV debaters. Also, alot of direct questions and points have been totally ignored.
However, that aside, you will also notice an incredible amount of generalisation by the same Anti-SUV people. Some examples, (and you'll have to forgive me for not trawling back for the exact quotes);
"SUV drivers buy SUV's for their superior road position" - Now I can't prove it, but I would bet my house that not EVERY SUV driver bought their car for that reason.
"All SUV drivers can't drive properly, or are selfish on the road" - Once again, I can't prove it, but I would bet anything that this is not true either.
"SUVs are enviornmentally unfriendly" - My SUV emits less than 200g CO2 and averages 38.5MPG of 70% city driving.
So, to conclude, there is no point in the pro-SUV side continuing with this debate for several reasons:
1. Nobody can actually define what an SUV is, so it is hard to defend a RAV4, which has low emissions, is very economical and has one of the highest EuroNCAP results, when your opposing debater is referring to a 6L Petrol Hummer.
2. As I said earlier, there is such a broad spectrum of SUVs, it is impossible to make arguments for them all.
So, if the Anti-SUV want to have SUVs banned or subject to higher TAX's, You give me the criteria and I will name cars that are also subject to the criteria you decide. I'll get the ball rolling.
SUVs should have to pay triple taxes based on their:
Big Engines. But alot of cars have similar engine sizes.
Large wheelbase. But alot of cars & MPVs have similar wheelbases.
Height and/or width. But alot of MPVs are as tall, if not taller, and alot of cars & MPVs are as wide.
Poor MPG. Alot of SUVs have better MPG figures than alot of cars & MPVs.
Sure, you could say, anything over 3 meters tall, 2 meters wide, with an engine over 4L, CO2 emissions of over 350g and MPG lower that 25mpg. But you are probably going to eliminate just the Hummer. Drop any of those figures and you are going to start eliminating the holier-than-thou cars & MPV's as well.0 -
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to me how it effects YOU what vehicle the guy chooses to drive HIS kids around in?
Santa Fe has a much higher frame and in two car collisions it causes more damage to other cars -and probably even to itself. That's my thought though, I could be wrong.
But that wasn't the point I was arguing anyway, you got me wrong. Traingle said he made his wife not buy a Focus C-Max because he felt responsible for his children and thought Santa Fe is safer. I was trying to point out to him that a)it's not, and b)his perception that Santa Fe is safer just because it's a SUV and sits higher on the road is totally wrong, there are many other cars with better safety rating than his that are much lower/smaller ... do you see my point now?
And btw I'm not obsessed with this matter particularly, but I don't usually tolerate ignorance very well, especially if it's mixed with arrogance, lack of intellctual ability (i.e. reading, common sense, logic, ...). That's why I bother responding to threads here, otherwise I feel very safe in my Saab, thank you, and have nothing to do with people stupid enough to drive a truck around narrow streets of town and small parking spaces of shopping centre just to sit a bit higher on the road. I particularly enjoy looking at them when their 3-tonnes pieces of junk turns into a small speck in my rear view mirror if I decide to press just a tiny bit harder on the accelerator (which, ofcourse, being a safe and sensible drive I never do
) 0 -
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Guess who's back.....
carefully, you will see that there is very little fact provided by the Anti-SUV debaters.
.....Now I can't prove it, but I would bet my house that not EVERY SUV driver bought their car for that reason.
.... Once again, I can't prove it, but I would bet anything that this is not true either.
.
Wow you baffle me with YOUR facts which you cant prove but yet have the cheek to attack the anti SUV threads??
Fact SUV block visability
Fact SUV not needed to carry most (I would say all) things.
Fact SUV higher lights then cars and hence blind ordinary car via rear view mirror.
Fact I would rather avoid being hit by a these tanks then any other car.0 -
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Wow you baffle me with YOUR facts which you cant prove but yet have the cheek to attack the anti SUV threads??
Fact SUV block visability
Fact SUV not needed to carry most (I would say all) things.
Fact SUV higher lights then cars and hence blind ordinary car via rear view mirror.
Like I said in my last post, I owned a MPV, a VW Sharan. Same facts apply just replace SUV with MPV, its hard/stupid to begrudge a person driving a MPV. Thats your agrument out the window
Fact MPV block visability
Fact MPV not needed to carry most (I would say all) things.
Fact MPV higher lights then cars and hence blind ordinary car via rear view mirror.0 -
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Santa Fe has a much higher frame and in two car collisions it causes more damage to other cars -and probably even to itself. That's my thought though, I could be wrong.
But that wasn't the point I was arguing anyway, you got me wrong. Traingle said he made his wife not buy a Focus C-Max because he felt responsible for his children and thought Santa Fe is safer. I was trying to point out to him that a)it's not, and b)his perception that Santa Fe is safer just because it's a SUV and sits higher on the road is totally wrong, there are many other cars with better safety rating than his that are much lower/smaller ... do you see my point now?
And btw I'm not obsessed with this matter particularly, but I don't usually tolerate ignorance very well, especially if it's mixed with arrogance, lack of intellctual ability (i.e. reading, common sense, logic, ...). That's why I bother responding to threads here, otherwise I feel very safe in my Saab, thank you, and have nothing to do with people stupid enough to drive a truck around narrow streets of town and small parking spaces of shopping centre just to sit a bit higher on the road. I particularly enjoy looking at them when their 3-tonnes pieces of junk turns into a small speck in my rear view mirror if I decide to press just a tiny bit harder on the accelerator (which, ofcourse, being a safe and sensible drive I never do )
Fair enough, I just say live and let live. Clearly you have good taste in cars, also I have never met a rude or ignorant saab driver on the roads and I've driven in many countries! If the guy choose a Santa Fe thats his choice just like the saab was yours. If it makes being a parent easier with the load space and the height to stop you having to bend down to get kids out of the car, then it was a good value purchase for him.0 -
Fair enough, I just say live and let live. Clearly you have good taste in cars, also I have never met a rude or ignorant saab driver on the roads and I've driven in many countries! If the guy choose a Santa Fe thats his choice just like the saab was yours. If it makes being a parent easier with the load space and the height to stop you having to bend down to get kids out of the car, then it was a good value purchase for him.
Thank you, glad I made my point clear. Btw, I don't know where you drive, but I myself have seen loads of rude/ignorant saab driver, pretty much the same as any other make (not as bad as beemers though )
I see your point, I really have nothing against what you said, and as you said who am I to pontificate to people what they should or shouldn't drive. I am only stating my own point of view, and sometimes I get a bit irritated when I see the lethal mix of ignorance and arrogance (as in some other posters posts) and I react!
Btw, I am a parent too, and I'm more than obsessed with safety of my child as well...
Also I've found my car's size more than adequate, even on a boat trip to France we had loads of space to spare for numerous cases of wine! The size of external shell doesn't necessarily mean more space inside...0 -
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