Trading in a car...

corblimey

So I'm thinking of trading in my 03 Seat early next year, probably against another second hand motor. However, there are a few 'cosmetic' things wrong with the car (it's a 3-door and the driver's seat doesn't flip forward any more so people have to get in the back via the passenger seat; the back windscreen washer is f**ked) - nothing that stops the car from running or should cause any safety concerns (although I suppose if the car was jammed up against a wall on the passenger's side and on fire, people might have trouble getting out the back!)

Anyway, my question is this: should I get these things fixed before I try to sell it? The chances of the garage stumbling across them must be fairly slim (I don't know, I've never traded in a car before, my first car was sold for scrappage and this is my second - I have no idea what sort of checks they make); of course if they do find these problems, they'll probably either cancel the trade in until I've fixed them, or charge me a hefty fee to fix them themselves. If they don't spot them until later, would they have any legal comeback to me?

goodlad

corblimey wrote: »

So I'm thinking of trading in my 03 Seat early next year, probably against another second hand motor. However, there are a few 'cosmetic' things wrong with the car (it's a 3-door and the driver's seat doesn't flip forward any more so people have to get in the back via the passenger seat; the back windscreen washer is f**ked) - nothing that stops the car from running or should cause any safety concerns (although I suppose if the car was jammed up against a wall on the passenger's side and on fire, people might have trouble getting out the back!)

Anyway, my question is this: should I get these things fixed before I try to sell it? The chances of the garage stumbling across them must be fairly slim (I don't know, I've never traded in a car before, my first car was sold for scrappage and this is my second - I have no idea what sort of checks they make); of course if they do find these problems, they'll probably either cancel the trade in until I've fixed them, or charge me a hefty fee to fix them themselves. If they don't spot them until later, would they have any legal comeback to me?

I recently traded in a car aswell which had some problems, a few of which i was hoping the garage wouldnt notice and luckily enough they didnt notice it. But then when doing the trade in against another car i had to sign up a list of questions about my car.. No problems with electrics? Body Damage etc..... a bit list!

Now i got away with it and ended up getting a good price for a car that was barely worth half what i got. Personally my view is they messed up and didnt spot the problems. But the documents i signed off were legal forms so if they do notice the stuff im sure i would be getting a call giving me ****

Henry Ford III

I reckon fix everything. Give garage no reason to bid down your trade in value.

Owen

corblimey wrote: »

Anyway, my question is this: should I get these things fixed before I try to sell it? The chances of the garage stumbling across them must be fairly slim ... If they don't spot them until later, would they have any legal comeback to me?

If a Garage did this to a customer, we'd have boardsies up in arms with pitchforks and fire. Yet it's okay for a customer to contemplate doing it to a Garage!

unkel

Leave it. It's up to the garage to find these problems. Don't lie though if they ask you a specific question

unkel

ned78 wrote: »

If a Garage did this to a customer, we'd have boardsies up in arms with pitchforks and fire. Yet it's okay for a customer to contemplate doing it to a Garage!

Yes it is. Customer selling to a garage is caveat emptor. A garage has professionals that can check cars out. Doesn't work like that the other way around

PaddyFagan

My 2c - bring it to one or two garages and see what they offer.... if they're way low, the best bet would be to fix the issues and get it cleaned up - and try one or two more - that said if you do end up fixing it up selling it privately might be a good option....

Like Unkel said - just bring them the car, if they ask you should tell them the truth....

I've seen garages where they just peered out the window and looked up a figure, in other instances they've gone over the car with a fine tooth combe checking every door, window, wipers, lights the works!

Paddy

Owen

unkel wrote: »

Yes it is. Customer selling to a garage is caveat emptor. A garage has professionals that can check cars out. Doesn't work like that the other way around

I'm not speaking of the logistics of it, but the dishonesty. I know there's a due process that's followed when a car is traded in to a Dealership, but I'm just saying if the tables were reversed, the customer wouldn't be too happy.

S.I.R

most garages thanks to there ego driven dealers have a spot check on the car then make a offer , if the guy at the lot don't fully check the car along with a mechanic , drive away , all his/her cars could be unsafe besides, you can get real bargains doing straight up trades with other private sellers.

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

I'm not speaking of the logistics of it, but the dishonesty. I know there's a due process that's followed when a car is traded in to a Dealership, but I'm just saying if the tables were reversed, the customer wouldn't be too happy.

That's probably because garages are well able to make profit off you no matter what you trade in, they make profit of what they sell you and of the car you trade into them, so thats profit x2 per customer really. Also because they'll fix what's wrong with it as part of a "deal" with the next potential buyer at a fraction of what it would cost the owner to get fixed.
I'd never lie to a garage, but I'd just roll up with it, let them do any checking that they feel necessary and quote me accordingly, and answer any questions honestly. I'd definately point out any "hidden" problems like if it was crashed or any big problems, but a seat latch and a washer jet is hardly something that would put a dealer out of business! They'll get some young fella to fix them in 15 minutes while he's idle anyway, so in real terms it'll cost them probably nothing.
So go away with your dealer sympathy stories!

Owen

Biro wrote: »

That's probably because garages are well able to make profit off you no matter what you trade in, they make profit of what they sell you and of the car you trade into them, so thats profit x2 per customer really.

Actually, if you knew as much about the Motor Trade as you're claiming to know, you'd realise most garages now due to competitiveness make little or nothing on the sale of a new car, and rely on the sale of the second hand to recoup profit.

Biro wrote: »

So go away with your dealer sympathy stories!

I didn't put forward any dealer sympathy stories buddy, I just pointed out the double standard that exists.

Cyrus

corblimey wrote: »

So I'm thinking of trading in my 03 Seat early next year, probably against another second hand motor. However, there are a few 'cosmetic' things wrong with the car (it's a 3-door and the driver's seat doesn't flip forward any more so people have to get in the back via the passenger seat; the back windscreen washer is f**ked) - nothing that stops the car from running or should cause any safety concerns (although I suppose if the car was jammed up against a wall on the passenger's side and on fire, people might have trouble getting out the back!)

Anyway, my question is this: should I get these things fixed before I try to sell it? The chances of the garage stumbling across them must be fairly slim (I don't know, I've never traded in a car before, my first car was sold for scrappage and this is my second - I have no idea what sort of checks they make); of course if they do find these problems, they'll probably either cancel the trade in until I've fixed them, or charge me a hefty fee to fix them themselves. If they don't spot them until later, would they have any legal comeback to me?

2 very small issues, the rear washer is a common vag problem and a 5 min fix and im sure the seat isnt much worse, its not as if the chassis is bent

neither should detract from the value

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

Actually, if you knew as much about the Motor Trade as you're claiming to know, you'd realise most garages now due to competitiveness make little or nothing on the sale of a new car, and rely on the sale of the second hand to recoup profit.



I didn't put forward any dealer sympathy stories buddy, I just pointed out the double standard that exists.

Hang on, where did I "claim" to know lots about the Motor Trade? I see the BMW salesman "I know everything" attitude is rampant in you anyway. No need to be so smart "buddy". And if you want to talk about double standards, how about different costs of servicing for the same engine fitted to different cars? And what about the discount you get for buying with no trade in? Are they actually selling the car for a loss in that instance?

cance

personally i'd use plausible deniability here.

you cant deny you didnt know about the seat, but the washer? easily

bazz26

With the trade-in price being well below the eventual selling price, doesn't the garage factor in the possibility of needing small repairs done to the car before it is sold on again?

unkel

bazz26 wrote: »

With the trade-in price being well below the eventual selling price, doesn't the garage factor in the possibility of needing small repairs done to the car before it is sold on again?

Of course and rightly so. The dealer has to cover (and I might be missing a few things here) cleaning the car, repairing, advertising and selling it and giving it a warranty. As well as a margin on top of that

whippet

the reality is that the dealer is in business, it is his job to offer the smallest amount possible for the trade-in and to sell it at the highest possible price, obviously with many external factors.

From a business perspective the dealer has not made a penny until the trade-in is bought and paid for by the next customer, and if that customer has used another car as part payment the profit could be many months down the line before being realised.

for instance if a dealer sells a new car for 30K which he may have bought for 27k, taking a part exchange + 10k cash. The dealer has actually lost 17K on this deal until he sells the trade in (I believe it's called the wash out) ... now if the original trade in sells for 22k, this means that he has taken 32K cash for the sale making 5K over all (for two sales). Now if the original trade in was sold as a part exchange also the process starts all over again.

If these second hand cars are sitting on the forecourt for more than a few weeks your profits are eaten into and the cost of sale increases.

I am not in the motor trade nor have I ever but I am involved in sales of high end machinery and understand how money is made and what really annoys me is the narrow mindedness of the average consumer and customer who just assume that once you are in business you are making loads of money and that the seller is always there to be screwed.

In response to the OP's question, it is up to yourself how honest you are with the dealer. A sales rep worth his salt should probably pick up on any of these faults regardless.

Auto Consulting

An excellent and very accurate post by Whippet. I worked as a car salesman for years. I now make a living by helping other people buy and sell cars. Effectively Auto Consulting acts as a car broker, entirely independent and we work solely for our clients.

To answer the OP, you are not expected to point out every fault with the car so don't feel nervous or guilty. Depending on the mileage and condition of your car there is a good chance that it will be sold straight back into the trade, in which case your trade-in allowance will be quite poor and it is accepted that the car is not in perfect condition. You will (or should be) asked 5 or 6 questions about your trade in which you will be asked to sign afterwards, none of these questions relate to small issues like yours. The salesperson will be more concerned about whether the car has ever had any structural or body repairs.

I suggest you take your car to a few garages and see how it goes, be completely honest and don't lose any sleep over it.

Mr.Diagnostic

ned78 wrote: »

If a Garage did this to a customer, we'd have boardsies up in arms with pitchforks and fire. Yet it's okay for a customer to contemplate doing it to a Garage!

Spot on Ned.

Humam nature maybe? I guess customers suffer from it same as sellers. Thankfully there are some with morals in all walks of life.

sesswhat

corblimey wrote: »

However, there are a few 'cosmetic' things wrong with the car (it's a 3-door and the driver's seat doesn't flip forward any more so people have to get in the back via the passenger seat; the back windscreen washer is f**ked) .

ned78 wrote: »

If a Garage did this to a customer, we'd have boardsies up in arms with pitchforks and fire. Yet it's okay for a customer to contemplate doing it to a Garage!

If a garage sold a car with these type of problems, and it happens every day, I don't think anyone would be up in arms but the customer would expect to go back and get it put right. OP is not exactly talking about cut'n'shut here.

It doesn't take much to get a bit of a frenzy whipped up though.

Biro

sesswhat wrote: »

If a garage sold a car with these type of problems, and it happens every day, I don't think anyone would be up in arms but the customer would expect to go back and get it put right. OP is not exactly talking about cut'n'shut here.

It doesn't take much to get a bit of a frenzy whipped up though.

You can sing that. Much ado about nothing.

Owen

Biro wrote: »

I see the BMW salesman "I know everything" attitude is rampant in you anyway. No need to be so smart "buddy". And if you want to talk about double standards, how about different costs of servicing for the same engine fitted to different cars? And what about the discount you get for buying with no trade in? Are they actually selling the car for a loss in that instance?

If you read any of my posts in this Forum, you'll see that 99% of the time, I go out of my way to help people. The rest of your attack on me isn't really welcome, and I'm not going to bother my hole responding to you. If you'd like to take it up in PM though, by all means do and I'll gladly explain why you don't understand the above points you made.

By the way, I don't sell BMWs, just so as you know.

Biro

ned78 wrote: »

If you read any of my posts in this Forum, you'll see that 99% of the time, I go out of my way to help people. The rest of your attack on me isn't really welcome, and I'm not going to bother my hole responding to you. If you'd like to take it up in PM though, by all means do and I'll gladly explain why you don't understand the above points you made.

By the way, I don't sell BMWs, just so as you know.

I wouldn't rate your opinion anyway, so don't bother forcing it on me. And you started with the attacks, but then your so far up your rectum that you still think that other people welcome your attacks.
Get off your high horse.

colm_mcm

Guys, I think the two of you need to relax,

There is truth in Ned's point that it's wrong to hide faults from a garage, I wouldn't get too upset if I traded a car in and a problem with the seat not sliding properly, etc. I'd be pissed off if I traded in something that needed major work or had more owners than stated, and the customer specifically lied about it. At the end of it, if a car has a fault, I'd accept that if I'd gone over the car in detail, I'd have spotted it - it's the chance you take on any car traded in. Ned's attitude to this could be seen as hypocritical, as some garages are very reluctant to point out faults to customers.

Biro, you seem to have a view that all dealers are out to make a quick buck. I know the garage that Ned sells in through the brand I sell, and know how they operate, If you haven't worked in the motor trade or have access to sales invoices, you can't make assumptions on how much a garage makes on a new car, or on a car subsequetly traded in. Main dealers DO make money, but they also on the whole provide a good service and have to outlay a lot of money to stay in that position.

Please don't get upset if you have different opinions and lower yourselves to a slagging match.

eamon234

My only exception would be if I was trading in with the dealer I bought the car from originally - payback for selling me a POS!