Make me a muslim

Rev Hellfire

Just a heads up for anyone who might be interested in this.

Channel 4 are running a three part reality program called 'Make me a Muslim' where six volunteers agree to live by Islamic principles for a period of time. Sounds like an Islamic version of the BBCs Retreat which was has been pretty good in its previous three incarnations.

The first one is on tomorrow Sunday at 8pm.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the guy who did 'supersize me' also did an episode like this for his show '30 days'. was good.

Osman

Sounds interesting!

I've set a reminder.

Suff

miss it,...how was it?

Osman

I think it was very interesting.

Imam Ajmal Masroor was my favourite mentor as he was the best communicator and the most understanding.

The other male mentors in my opinion lacked this quality as, although I could see what they were getting at some of the time, they often ended up making a mess of explaining Islam's point of view to the participants.

But it is defo worth watching. Tune in tonight at 8pm again I think for the second part!

Suff

Will watch it for sure, its always the interpretations that make or break the faith.

philologos

I found it interesting to watch from a Christian point of view. I find that Ajmal was also the most understanding and the most tolerant to other ways than some of the other Imams but he was still strong in his views of the faith. I happen to think that Channel 4 picked the people who would have the most difficulty with it which is a shame. Notably, trying to get a woman who is a photo model to cover up, and to invite a right winger who already has his perceptions about Islam to the faith could prove difficult.

blackthorn

Awful. It was only Ajmal being there that made it watchable at all. The Muslim mentors on the show I'm sure had the best of motives and all that for participating, but really, it's turned out to be a train wreck so far. Hoping the next episode will be less cringeworthy.

philologos

The attitude of the British mentor in relation to hijab was disgraceful. "You're only doing this for three weeks, get over it". Ajmal is a true source of wisdom in comparison to the rest.

Rev Hellfire

Jakkass wrote: »

The attitude of the British mentor in relation to hijab was disgraceful. "You're only doing this for three weeks, get over it". Ajmal is a true source of wisdom in comparison to the rest.

She reminds me of an ex-smoker

I agree that Imam Ajmal Masroor certainty comes across well in his interactions and dealings with what are fairly confrontational people (wouldn't be good telly if they weren't though).

The show is also available on the channel 4 on demand service.

panda100

Its been a very intresting programme so far,a refreshing change from all the clebrity/reality tosh we usually get on Channel4. I found it intresting that all particpating people decided to take part because they felt they have lost meaning in their lives.There is no doubt that life for many has become superfical but personally I dont believe religon is the answer to making society meaningful again.

The women mentor is really atrocious and is not making islam at all appealing to women. I dont want to generalise but almost every, actually, every muslim women I have ever encountered has been similar to her in attitude.I feel that I have never had a proper intresting debate on women in Islam with a muslim women beacuse they are frightened to defend it as they know that the reasons behind wearing the hijab,segregation etc are fundamentally oppressive. I feel that they are scared to think about it to much as deep down they know their religon is sexist and oppressive towards them. To me it would seem If the women mentor was truly confident and sure in her beliefs she would be tolerant of others lack of understanding.Thats just my opinion anyway of muslim women I have encountered and I mean no offence.


I particularly enjoyed Imam (?) thoughts on death. He is correct on saying that death is not thought about and kept away from society.Death is something that should be talked about on a daily basis,not in a doom and gloom way, but just to remind oursleves daily that we are not immortal.

I see little hope for the couple though.Their relationship doesnt seem that stable at all!

Hobbes

It was on really early this morning. I managed to catch a little of it. The whole thing came across like "Wife Swap" to me. They couldn't of picked the worst possible people for it they tried.

Suff

It was terrible, all the focus was on physical attributes of the faith nothing spiritual. they are using the typical old approach to preach Islam and treating the participants like children.

If a person come up to me and told me "Don't..., Not to..., forbidden..., Must do..."and so on I would reject whatever they push at me. its natural.
I would need to be convinced and logicaly understand it before I can decide on how to responed.
They should have explained the faith from a spiritual side for the first 2 weeks and maybe in the following weeks invite the participants to try the life stlye with no obligations. You cannot force someone to do something they dont believe as this would just deliver only rejection.

Al Baqarra (The Cow):256 There is no compulsion in religion.

The mentors are poor, I found Imam Muhammad Davis to be Most annoying. espically when they went for a walk, Al Tasabeh (the repetitive utterances of short sentences glorifying God) is done privately, the way he's doing annoyed me and I am a Muslim!

The program is poorly organized and executed.

BuffyBot

I didn't watch it simply because I knew it would be a formulaic Channel 4 quasi-reality type show in the "specifically-chosen-to-be-a-fish-out-of-water" genre a la Wife Swap etc.

It was always going to be about showing up conflict rather than any spiritual journey. Hence they choose extreme characters. Even the title annoyed me, considering that giving the impression that someone can be "made" to be a Muslim is misleading in it's own right.

pH

Suff wrote: »

It was terrible, all the focus was on physical attributes of the faith nothing spiritual. they are using the typical old approach to preach Islam and treating the participants like children.

I have to agree, now how much of that is the way C4 wanted to program to be or edited it but the initial focus on what you can't drink, wear and eat seemed to be putting the cart before the horse so to speak?

Surely if you believe and worship a God then you follow his rules (because you believe), you don't believe because you follow the rules? It seemed backwards to me.

Why not simply tell them the rules and explain Islam to them? These are adults not children after all, they understand what skimpy clothes, alcohol and pork products are, I'm not sure why they need help in removing these products from their houses.

blackthorn

I think that's right. It was a 'cart before the horse' approach which is why it didn't work. I'm disappointed for the participants in the show. Most of them wanted to see if Islam had any answers to their need for something spiritual in their lives. If they found answers, sadly it would probably be despite the efforts of the mentors (with the exception of Ajmal) rather than because of them.

I think the focus should have been first on the spiritual side of things instead of bombarding the people at the outset with 'don't! don't! don't!!' The BBC's 'Retreat' last year was so much better because that's what they did. They put first things first, just as the Prophet (pbuh) instructed his followers to do.

JC 2K3

Ajmal had good intentions, but the other mentors were just so out of touch. Also, I don't understand why the participants were allowed to be so directly argumentative. What would have been better would have been to make them do as the mentors said and maybe done a private diary type thing to voice their feelings.

Also, does Islam really prohibit guys from wearing female clothing? Or even pink clothing?

On a side note, I'd love to see a "Make me an Atheist" show.

philologos

JC 2K3 wrote: »

On a side note, I'd love to see a "Make me an Atheist" show.

I'd love to see a "Make me a Christian" version personally.

panda100

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd love to see a "Make me a Christian" version personally.

I would definatly have the tv booked for 'make me a catholic'! During the programme it struck me how much Islam and Catholicsim have in common:fasting,prayers,modesty,no alcohol,against homosexuality,female oppression etcetc. Islam and catholicism are fundamenatly exactly the same.

donaghs

It struck me also that they could have made a similar program about the values of 1950s middle class Christian England. No porn, fasting, moderate aclohol consumption, hiding or not tolerating homosexuality, and so on.

I didn't see the whole thing, but the way they were confiscating items reminded me of the fact that even 'Lady Chatterly's Lover' was banned in England until 1960. At the trial the prosecution said: ""Is this a book you would wish your wives or servants to read?"

At the same time everything about modern England isn't good. And the Islamic way of life does show that moderation and simplicity in life can be beneficial too in this consumer age.

Rev Hellfire

panda100 wrote: »

it struck me how much Islam and Catholicsim have in common:fasting,prayers,modesty,no alcohol

You say it as if all these things are bad things. Certainly there's no harm in fasting, behaving modestly and not poisoning yourself with vast quantities of alcohol. You certainly don't need to be a Muslim or Christian to appreciate this.
As for the women in the series they didn't seem that oppressed to me.

Actually I quite enjoyed it on the whole; I never expected it to present a wholly glowing appraisal of Islam and assumed it was for an audience (Christian and/or secular) outside of it. On the whole with the expectation of the female mentor most of the people came out of it ok in my opinion.

moe_sizlak

panda100 wrote: »

I would definatly have the tv booked for 'make me a catholic'! During the programme it struck me how much Islam and Catholicsim have in common:fasting,prayers,modesty,no alcohol,against homosexuality,female oppression etcetc. Islam and catholicism are fundamenatly exactly the same.

are you an idiot or just a PC idiot trying to curry favour with the trendys or else the muslims
which is it

The_Minister

panda100 wrote: »

I would definatly have the tv booked for 'make me a catholic'! During the programme it struck me how much Islam and Catholicsim have in common:

Not really

panda100 wrote: »

prayers,

It's a religion. All religions have prayers. Voodoo has prayers.

panda100 wrote: »

modesty,

Firstly, that's a really good thing. Secondly, one has to look at the ways in which people have to be modest, and the extent to which they have to modest. Otherwise its like saying that two religions are identical because they both want you to be a good person.

panda100 wrote: »

no alcohol,

That's why Christians drink wine a mass, of course, it's so simple.
Christianity is generally interpreted as calling for restraint on drink, as opposed to most Islamic countries who ban it outright.

panda100 wrote: »

against homosexuality,

Again, completely different levels of disapproval. Church - "it's ok to be gay, as long as you don't have sex, but we will still let you into heaven if you are a good person"
Islam "No"

panda100 wrote: »

female oppression etcetc.

Again, completely different levels. Church - "Women are special, and equal, they just perform different roles than men. That doesn't mean they are lesser"
Islam - "Cover your face and walk over that landmine"

panda100 wrote: »

Islam and catholicism are fundamenatly exactly the same.

Bollox. They are both universalistic religions, which stem from the same Abrahamic origins, but there are clear differences in the basic emphasi (is that the plural?) and what is forbidden and what is not. They are very different.

wes

The_Minister wrote: »

Not really
Again, completely different levels of disapproval. Church - "it's ok to be gay, as long as you don't have sex, but we will still let you into heaven if you are a good person"
Islam "No"

No actually, I believe its the same basic idea as the catholic church.

There even a thread in this forum where some other posters go into greater detail on this:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055200093

The_Minister wrote: »

Again, completely different levels. Church - "Women are special, and equal, they just perform different roles than men. That doesn't mean they are lesser"
Islam - "Cover your face and walk over that landmine"

Erm, the Islamic position is exactly as you describes the churches.

Also, pretty sure Islam would never encourage Women to walk on land mines. In fact it doesn't encourage walking on land mines at all. I don't think anyone encourages that ever, unless there nuts.

I think you took the hyperbole just a wee bit too far with that one :P.

Also, plenty of Muslims Women don't wear a full on Burqa or Abbaya. Some don't even cover there hair. So again hyperbole.

WindSock

Hobbes wrote: »

It was on really early this morning. I managed to catch a little of it. The whole thing came across like "Wife Swap" to me. They couldn't of picked the worst possible people for it they tried.

That just gave me an for a show..Islam Gender Swap


Also, I think the large blonde woman was so annoying that a niqab would be advisable.

I missed a lot of it though, I was quite interested in seeing it.

panda100

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

You say it as if all these things are bad things. Certainly there's no harm in fasting, behaving modestly and not poisoning yourself with vast quantities of alcohol. You certainly don't need to be a Muslim or Christian to appreciate this.
As for the women in the series they didn't seem that oppressed to me.

Actually I quite enjoyed it on the whole; I never expected it to present a wholly glowing appraisal of Islam and assumed it was for an audience (Christian and/or secular) outside of it. On the whole with the expectation of the female mentor most of the people came out of it ok in my opinion.

I think my comments have been completly taken out of context. I never said that I believed fasting,modesty,no alcohol etc were negative things. In fact If you read any of my comments on other forums you will know my feelings towards alcohol. There is no doubt that the current epidemic of binge drinking in this country is young people turning to alcohol to fill some void in their lives,a spiritual void.
I definatly dont think my comment deserved a mod giving me a warning but I apologise for any offence caused.
As for the oppression of women,I believe religon to be a private matter and hence I have no problem with women wearing the hijab, only keeping company with their husband etc If that is their choice. However islamic religon is not just a private matter when so many countries are ruled under Sharia law. When women are being so opprosed in Islamic countries, and you only have to see the recent case in Saudi Arabi to see that they are, then as a women I feel it difficult to stand by and say nothing.

Hobbes

panda100 wrote: »

I think my comments have been completly taken out of context.

It was the oppressing women comment and it wasn't a Muslim who reported the post. Don't panic. "warnings" are generally a request rather then a banning. As you said you were taken out of context.

the_new_mr

Have been ignoring this thread until now as I was worried that it would spoil the show before watching it

Anyway, just finished watching the third episode there now and I have to say that I enjoyed it mostly. There were lots of cringe moments and I totally agree with the opinion on here that the other three mentors were pretty bad. Dawn especially was very forceful and arrogant. I think she probably just forgot what it was like for her before she became a Muslim. I know she had best intentions but you have to conduct yourself properly. That "get over it" comment was unacceptable really. I know that these things can be edited in such a way that they might have taken out about 10 minutes of grilling from Carla or something but that would never justify that kind of behaviour really.

There's a saying of the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) that draws an analogy of how a man running into the desert on his horse is not as effective as someone taking their time so that they don't get tired too quickly (or something to that effect) and I think that kind of applies here. The participants were being asked to run into the desert.

Also, when the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) used to instruct his companions to spread the message of Islam, he would say "Tell them that they should worship God alone and accept me as the messenger of God and, if they accept that, tell them they should pray and, if they accept that, tell them they should pay alms..." and so on.

I was really pleased to see some of the participants taking a lot out of the spiritual side of things. Especially Luke and Hailey. That scene of Luke in the second episode was very emotional as well.

And it was very refreshing to hear Hailey talking about she feels liberated in a way when wearing hijab even though she's not actually a Muslim.

I was disappointed that there was no sort of progress report at the end of last episode as you usually get with these sort of programmes. It would be interesting to see what lasting effect, if any, it's had on the participants.

I think the best thing about the program though was that it shows that even if these people didn't become Muslims, it shows how they now see the peace within Islam and Muslims and how there's nothing to be afraid of when it comes to living together in a multi-cultural society. General success really... despite the cringes

the_new_mr

The_Minister wrote:

Again, completely different levels. Church - "Women are special, and equal, they just perform different roles than men. That doesn't mean they are lesser"
Islam - "Cover your face and walk over that landmine"

Warning for that comment.

Isn't it sad that on a thread of a generally positive vibe that someone feels the need to be negative and aggressive in this matter?