Arm the Gardai?

Eru

ciaran2008 wrote: »

How comfortable would a serving Garda feel carrying a weapon? It’s different in the North as PSNI officers need to carry weapons in order to protect themselves not from armed civilians but paramilitary organisations.

Thank god for that, I thought the IRA and their various alternatives might not respect the laws in the Republic. Shooting a Garda, they never! :eek:

ciaran2008

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Thank god for that, I thought the IRA and their various alternatives might not respect the laws in the Republic. Shooting a Garda, they never! :eek:

Well it may have happened before but come on look at the recent situation in NI off duty PSNI officers getting blasted in the face with shotguns! The Garda have it cushier down south like it or lump it. .

Eru

ciaran2008 wrote: »

Well it may have happened before but come on look at the recent situation in NI off duty PSNI officers getting blasted in the face with shotguns! The Garda have it cushier down south like it or lump it. .

In terms of being targeted that remains true for the moment but how many Gardai have to be shot dead before its acknowledged? And dont underestimate how many have come very close or seriously injured without it becoming public knowledge.

I remember 2 senior Gardai (1 now a Sergeant) telling me a story, they were at a checkpoint when a car they pulled in produced guns. They were locked into the boot and driven to a woods, during the travel they could hear the wife telling the husband they had to kill the 'freestaters' and only for the husband deciding it was better not too as he was already on the run they would both be dead.

Theres also numerous incidents of Gardai being followed home from stations and having their houses, property and families attacked.

I just find the statement to be very niave and slightly insulting. Afterall more S African or Brazilian police are killed than PSNI but that shouldnt reduce the acknowledgement of what the PSNI have to live with.

ciaran2008

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

In terms of being targeted that remains true for the moment but how many Gardai have to be shot dead before its acknowledged? And dont underestimate how many have come very close or seriously injured without it becoming public knowledge.

I remember 2 senior Gardai (1 now a Sergeant) telling me a story, they were at a checkpoint when a car they pulled in produced guns. They were locked into the boot and driven to a woods, during the travel they could hear the wife telling the husband they had to kill the 'freestaters' and only for the husband deciding it was better not too as he was already on the run they would both be dead.

Theres also numerous incidents of Gardai being followed home from stations and having their houses, property and families attacked.

I just find the statement to be very niave and slightly insulting. Afterall more S African or Brazilian police are killed than PSNI but that shouldnt reduce the acknowledgement of what the PSNI have to live with.

I just think police forces should be moving away from carrying personal protection weapons. Also its a little more complicated than comparing the PSNI with South African police forces etc.
I think the compromise is the key aspect in all of this. On one hand you have countries such as the US, where every police officer is armed. On the other hand you have Irish police who have a few armed response units. I personally wouldn't want just any old fresh faced 18-year-old garda carrying a gun. Training or not, these people are inexperienced. My suggestion would be to increase the armed police by training key officers with more policing experience. Instead of having every single officer armed, have one in 50 etc.

There are other ways to tighten your personal security and guns aren’t always the answer!

eroo

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Theres also numerous incidents of Gardai being followed home from stations and having their houses, property and families attacked.

As an example,down here in Luimneach,several Gardai have come out of their house to go to work when they realised bullet casings were left sitting on their car bonnet!:eek:
Also,a couple of years back,5-6,a RIRA member was caught in Dublin with a list containing names and addresses of members of the ERU!

ciaran2008

eroo wrote: »

As an example,down here in Luimneach,several Gardai have come out of their house to go to work when they realised bullet casings were left sitting on their car bonnet!
Also,a couple of years back,5-6,a RIRA member was caught in Dublin with a list containing names and addresses of members of the ERU!

Being a Garda carries risks like any job and they know exactly what they are letting themselves in for when they apply for the job but the point being should every guard be armed? The commissioner is establishing armed regional response units and that should suffice! You hear of all these threats but fortunately very rarely do they act on this!

cushtac

ciaran2008 wrote: »

I just think police forces should be moving away from carrying personal protection weapons.

What do you mean by personal protection weapons?

Eru

Ciaron,
No one is suggesting taking guns home at this stage however you must be aware that regional units will do nothing to help a Garda being targeted off duty.

As for comparing, you were the one that starting comparing police forces, not I. Your suffering from sever niavity if you think the way forward is too reduce armed policing and if you get the PSNI you will gain a better understanding of what your speaking about because to be perfectly honest you strike me as having a limited view of the world at this stage in your life.

As for your other comments, well when you actually start working in whatever career you end up in remember, you knew what you were getting yourself into.

metman

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

....Your suffering from sever niavity if you think the way forward is too reduce armed policing....

I agree with Karlito on this.

Don't know if you're trolling or if you genuinely believe this, but if ever you wind up as a sworn officer it'd be interesting to see how long you maintain this outlook.

TheNog

ciaran2008 wrote: »

Being a Garda carries risks like any job and they know exactly what they are letting themselves in for when they apply for the job

This comment really boils my blood. A Garda's job is not like any other job in this country. It is unique and therefore the dangers we have to face are not like the dangers civilians face. Anyone who thinks like you either do not fully understand our role in society or they are just trolling.

We are discussing whether Gardai should be armed to better protect themselves from harm rather than sticking our heads in the sand. Times are changing and so should we.

In civilian jobs any good company will identify a risk and minimise that risk by introducing new safety procedures and equipment. What do we have? Nothing. A Garda has a split second to make a decision and react. If it is the wrong decision then management or the Ombudsman spends many months picking that decision apart.

eroo

TheNog wrote: »

A Garda has a split second to make a decision and react. If it is the wrong decision then management or the Ombudsman spends many months picking that decision apart.

Or if your an armed Garda,you'll have a tribunal just for yourself!

moose52c

uniform gardai should not be armed, we cant get ahead of ourselfs, stabproof vests took over 5years to get and that is a basic saftey measure ASP's also.
the radio system is a joke and the new system being rolled out is of couse years out of date as is Pulse.
start with getting the basic needs correct i.e proper police uniform baseball hat and combats. not guns

ojewriej

I think every GS member will have to be armed within 10 years. Unarmed patrols might be grand now, but soon the yardies will come, proper russian gangsters will come, other serious criminals will come too. They won't give a crap about your proud history of unarmed guards, if they think will get away with it they will shoot.

Few years ago in Poland russians (hired by polish gangsters) assasinated our chief commisioner and a Minister for Sport. I really don't think they will have any problems shooting an unarmed Garda. It would be crazy not to give the Gardai something to defend themselves.

deadwood

Hello folks, goodbye Bertie,

New to this carry on ( hey, most people get to use the web at work, not us though!) so forgive me if I post on the wrong thread/post etc...

I tried to subscribe to the new garda review site but it won't recognise my reg no. Anyone else got this problem or a fix? No reply from gda review yet.

Also, do users not feel they are compromising their own jobs by discussing a lot of the subjects on this site? We all feel our superiors could do more as regards money, equipment etc. but airing our dirty linen in public isn't the way to go, surely? I've no doubt management monitor this site and can identify users easily. Am I just behind the times and/or polaroid?

ojewriej

deadwood wrote: »

Also, do users not feel they are compromising their own jobs by discussing a lot of the subjects on this site? We all feel our superiors could do more as regards money, equipment etc. but airing our dirty linen in public isn't the way to go, surely? I've no doubt management monitor this site and can identify users easily. Am I just behind the times and/or polaroid?

It's up to the individual. I'm always assuming that whatever I write here is read by GS management, and that they can find out who I am easily enough, so even if I would have any serious greviances I wouldn't post them here.

And I don't really think any members of GS posting here are posting anything inapropriate. They voice their opinions about certain stuff, but i think they know where the line is.

And I'm sorry, I can't help you with the garda review problem. You might be better off creating a new thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1023

deadwood

Fair enough. I suppose it's a bit like the chap blabbing in the pub to his colleagues/mates about everything that's wrong with the job and how, only for him, the whole place would fall apart. It's just occurred to me that any person who has a members reg no and name can log on to the garda review site. I might stick to this and filter out the bloffers/wannabes for myself.

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

Also, do users not feel they are compromising their own jobs by discussing a lot of the subjects on this site? We all feel our superiors could do more as regards money, equipment etc. but airing our dirty linen in public isn't the way to go, surely? I've no doubt management monitor this site and can identify users easily. Am I just behind the times and/or polaroid?

well we arent posting anything specific that could get us into trouble. I knwo everything and anything I say doesnt fall under the official secrets or Garda Acts.

In relation to airing in public, theres a few points here.
1. The public and government wanted transparancy, well this is it. Good and bad.
2. Airing in private has gotten us squat to date and we only have ASPs and vests as a result of a joint NYPD / media article which embarassed the government, commiss and minister into giving them as the public only became aware that we were so open to attack.

3. Speaking in public about the problems Gardai are experiencing and showing why and how we make the demands we make might gain public support.

4. Showing reality in policing replaces CSI / TV experts and negative opinion with truth and a greater understanding of policing such as what can be done and whats made up for the show.

A prime example was Joe Duffy recently giving out because Gardai in the city centre are getting food for free. Not a single member rang to explain that the food is actually prisoner meals because they have the contract for supplying it. It took a manager within the store to show how ignorant the callers are and also how biased Joe is when Joe should and could have researched the topic properly before going on air.

ciaran2008

cushtac wrote: »

What do you mean by personal protection weapons?

Personal protection weapon is the ‘technical’ name for a gun in the PSNI.;)

ciaran2008

TheNog wrote: »

This comment really boils my blood. A Garda's job is not like any other job in this country. It is unique and therefore the dangers we have to face are not like the dangers civilians face. Anyone who thinks like you either do not fully understand our role in society or they are just trolling.

We are discussing whether Gardai should be armed to better protect themselves from harm rather than sticking our heads in the sand. Times are changing and so should we.

In civilian jobs any good company will identify a risk and minimise that risk by introducing new safety procedures and equipment. What do we have? Nothing. A Garda has a split second to make a decision and react. If it is the wrong decision then management or the Ombudsman spends many months picking that decision apart.

Your right its not like any other job and I did word that wrong. You have changed my mind. . arm the Gardai!

Quite a persuasive argument there!

ciaran2008

metman wrote: »

I agree with Karlito on this.

Don't know if you're trolling or if you genuinely believe this, but if ever you wind up as a sworn officer it'd be interesting to see how long you maintain this outlook.

Funny you should say that because im applying for the Garda reserve! but its too late as I have already changed my mind and say arm the Gardai!

metman

Good luck with that then.

stink_fist

If i can have a gun then yeah! if not **** NO!

CLADA

Following on from last weeks events:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0405/limerick1.html

This was in Garryowen which is a long way from St Marys Park and Moyross, I can imagine things are fairly stretched in Henry St as it is without that side of town kicking off:(

ScubaDave

Has anyone even heard anything through the grapevine about OC spray?

eroo

check out the Regional+Divisional Policing plans '08,also check the Inspectorate reports..all now available on garda.ie

According to them,only Public Order Units and other specialists will be getting OC spray.

ScubaDave

Ohh jesus! I thought with the new man at the helm that there was some chance of it! Id love to know why they are still holding back on this! The UK has had it for years! Id rather spray someone then ASP them!

Eru

ScubaDave wrote: »

Ohh jesus! I thought with the new man at the helm that there was some chance of it! Id love to know why they are still holding back on this! The UK has had it for years! Id rather spray someone then ASP them!

Dont worry Dave, the big man has set up a working party of people sitting around a desk to decide what Beat Gardai, Sergeants, Inspectors and the Inspectorate already know.

I really really hope this is the same working party that did the uniform!

ScubaDave

God i hope so!

CLADA

ScubaDave wrote: »

Id rather spray someone then ASP them!

Just to clear up a point Dave.

You would : "rather spray someone then ASP them".
or
"rather spray someone than ASP them".

Rovi

CLADA wrote: »

Just to clear up a point Dave.

You would : "rather spray someone then ASP them".
or
"rather spray someone than ASP them".

Perhaps he meant 'spay'?