CPR in Schools

sgt.bilko

Heres something to have a think about!

Would it be such a bad idea if CPR was introduced as part of the school curriculum ?

you never know the time nor the place when such a skill will be needed!

!!!!!conor!!!!!

I heard that it is due to come in in the next 2 years and that was in about February and also quite recently I heard that there is a plan to equip all schools with an AED by next september!!

civdef

It would be very useful to introduce basic first aid skills (not just CPR) to the school curriculum.

It seems very much normal to do first aid as part of Transition year in most schools, idealy this would be extended to all pupils, with a refresher in 5/6th year to help re-inforce the learning.

eroo

ya that would be a great idea,that way majority of 15-19 year olds will be able to adminsiter basic first aid

timmywex

yeh, the first aid is a good idea, but most people wont remember it/be bothered, a few will, and thats what its al about, but it has to be asked, will people stand up and be counted at an incident?

i think the aed in every school is an idea im unsure about, i think it shoudl be somewhere more open so it can be accessed by everyone in the local area, also, i dont think they really are needed that often in schools tbh, i know its a precaution, but if its in the community, everyone can use it, not just when the school is open.

Also, who would fund these and would you train students? its an interesting idea

tallaght01

timmywex wrote: »

yeh, the first aid is a good idea, but most people wont remember it/be bothered, a few will, and thats what its al about, but it has to be asked, will people stand up and be counted at an incident?

i think the aed in every school is an idea im unsure about, i think it shoudl be somewhere more open so it can be accessed by everyone in the local area, also, i dont think they really are needed that often in schools tbh, i know its a precaution, but if its in the community, everyone can use it, not just when the school is open.

Also, who would fund these and would you train students? its an interesting idea

AEDs in schools are fine,a s long as they're not put there at the expense of others in places where there's likely to be a shockable rhythm arrest.

First aid/CPR in schools is a great idea, IMHO.

It';s not the end of the world if they forget it, as long as they give chest compressions and inflation breaths, its better than nothing. There's no evidence in adults for any of the particular 1:5 or 2:15 protocols kicking about. And as long as they remember to put pressure on wounds, and to have a low treshold for treating people for shock,put cold water on burns etc they won't go too far wrong.

boomer_ie

tallaght01 wrote: »

AEDs in schools are fine,a s long as they're not put there at the expense of others in places where there's likely to be a shockable rhythm arrest.

First aid/CPR in schools is a great idea, IMHO.

It';s not the end of the world if they forget it, as long as they give chest compressions and inflation breaths, its better than nothing. There's no evidence in adults for any of the particular 1:5 or 2:15 protocols kicking about. And as long as they remember to put pressure on wounds, and to have a low treshold for treating people for shock,put cold water on burns etc they won't go too far wrong.

I have been teaching Basic First Aid courses to Transition Year students for the last two years and they have proven to be very popular with requests to come back every year (usually in Autumn to have them completed before christmas)

I will say tallaght01, you do realise the new protocols are 30:2 for compressions to breaths and have been for the last 2 or so years?

Dave!

I think it'd be a great idea to teach some basic first aid really... I don't know what's stopping them. i'd love to have learned it in school.

boomer_ie

DaveMcG wrote: »

I think it'd be a great idea to teach some basic first aid really... I don't know what's stopping them. i'd love to have learned it in school.

Cost and time is a major issue for many schools. We have given the schools we have worked with significent discounts to enable them to run Basic First Aid Programmes. You are talking about putting a 2 day course into a slightly shorter school day as well. But it can be done and the students (the ones we have had so far) are by and far appreciative of the course. Its something different for them.

tallaght01

boomer_ie wrote: »

I have been teaching Basic First Aid courses to Transition Year students for the last two years and they have proven to be very popular with requests to come back every year (usually in Autumn to have them completed before christmas)

I will say tallaght01, you do realise the new protocols are 30:2 for compressions to breaths and have been for the last 2 or so years?

Yea I've been teaching first aid for many many years.

BUT, I also tell my students that it's great if they can learn protocols.

BUT, if they can't remmeber them, they can just plough on with compressions/ventilations at some kind of reasonable rate. IN fact, I don't really examine much anymore, as I saw a lot of students failing their CPR module for being a few compressions out of synch, when they were giving good compressions and good ventilations.

If you ever see an in hospital arrest, we don't get too stressed about compression rates.

It's 30:2 depending on your age, but it's unlikely to affect outcome. You're not going to save somebody's life by changing rate. There's no difference in survival rate that can be put down to changing from 5:1 or 15:2.

There's even talk of getting rid members of the public giving ventilations, as the tidal volume produced by chest compressions is probably enough to facilitate gas exchange. BUt nobody has had the guts to implement it, which is fair enough as it'll be a huge sea change, and if they're wrong there'll be serious consequences.

I've been at arrests where I've been pressing one handed on a chest, while injecting adrenaline or doing somehting else with my other hand, particularly in south africa where we usually have a few resuscitations going on at once, and we had very few staff. It's all about doing what u can under the circumstances.

I'm totally in favour of teaching students, and as many members of the public as possible the principles of first aid, but I don't get too wrapped up in protocols if people struggle to remember them (though they're useful insofar as they can give a member of the public something to fall back on in a stressful situation-it can kinda put them on auto pilot)

theAwakening

standard first aid courses should be compulsary at secondary school level. there are 6 years available there for 'refresher courses'. No excuse for the government not to bring it in. I remember of all the useless & irrelevent subjects/classes/modules i was made do in secondary school (particularly transition year). First Aid was actually a part of my transition year module a few years ago but they never got around to teaching it to my class. Had I actually been taught it I would have been able to help dozens of people whom I have since encountered while being uneducated in any first aid whatsoever.

One of the most important, relevant, useful things a teenager could ever be taught.

dfbfirerescue

think its a great idea. again like tallaght said doesnt matter too much about protocols.. chest compressions are the key.. american heart assoc. now reccommending no ventilations for lay providers pre hospital .. just constant chest compressions.. gas exchange is achieved by compressions alone and over ventilation causes hypotension (low blood pressure).. also the big thing trying to be taught now is on arrest heart loses natural shape.. left ventricle collapses so even if defib available its unlikely to result in perfusing rhytem.. thus chest compressions for two min.s if shock delivered and rhytem showing on screen..pre hospital in states at the min they starting to use mechanical aids for delivering compressions.. belt system , gas powered systems... best rate found to be 60/2 but unfortunatly after a few cycles rescuers found to tire and in effective compressions get delivered. cpr and basic first aid should be compulsary for leaving cert...

BatDub

"It's 30:2 depending on your age, but it's unlikely to affect outcome. You're not going to save somebody's life by changing rate. There's no difference in survival rate that can be put down to changing from 5:1 or 15:2."

A little off topic but i have to dissagree a bit with you tallaght01, In my opinion, the 30:2 rate brought in a couple of years ago has had a big difference. I'm talking from a prehospital setting. Any patient i have brought into hospital 3 NSA or 6 shocks have had a better colour then with the old 15:2/5:1. I hope with the introduction of better ACLS prehospital, the post arrest survival rate will increase.

I would also like to say if you don't keep up blood pressure and pulse during CPR what is the point of compressions?? It has been found in international research that compression only CPR would be much better than poorly preformed ratio CPR.