clipped a wing mirror today.

jman0

God, stressful day.
Was cycling the usual route, there was about 500m length of queueing cars coming to this roundabout.
Some of them were kerb-huggers.
I've gotten good at positioning my front tyre almost making contact with the kerb while i lean my body and bike to the left, clearing the wing mirrors.
But today i clipped this wing mirror.
I think it's still attached but tbh am not sure.
It looked a bit like maybe it was sort of hanging by a rusty bolt already if you know what i mean.
Anyway i turned round to say sorry but the lady in the driver's seat was pure raging at me thru the windscreen.
There was little point holding up traffic to get shouted at by this driver so i just cycled on.
I think the wing mirror was still attached so it's not like i knocked it off.
Anyway i'm worried now about cycling that route because i wear distinctive high-viz gear. Worried that raging lady will try to do something to me if/when she sees me again.
I just wish they'd have the consideration to give me a smidget of room.
I don't need much, just about 2 feet.
There's plenty of space on that stretch of road too.

Instead i feel like a 2nd class citizen, Less Equal than those that sit inside their personal metal boxes taking up loads of road space.

Harrybelafonte

You didn't take the mirror off so you're probably didn't cause much damage, many are made to have a good bit of give in them anyway. Any motorist that came after you for something like that would need their hear examined.

I've accidentally done it myself to a white van a few weeks ago (this was my fault though) and I just kept going, I could hear screams following me and didn't fancy the confrontation. I might have knocked the alignment off but knew it was still intact so didn't feel the need to go back.

TBH I'd understand it if you'd knock the whole thing off because they're damn expensive but I'd say you might be knocked off as well in that case.

Anyway, don't worry about it, don't take it personally and try not judging all motorists on this woman's reactions

Hungrycol

Don't worry about. I did it a while ago on my way onto work and got a massive bruse on my right hand (I was on the break hoods on drop bars). i was going too fast to turn around and apologise but would have done if was wasn't afraid of hitting another one ahead.

The guilt lasts for about a week but that it's grand. Don't worry about it there's nowt they can do about it.

trinewbie

I actually think it is very irresponsible of you not to stop. I would report you to the Gardai.

....yeah right...run like hell! :DTook Mirror of an old transit, after he cut me off follwoing a left turn in Rathmies ...no remorse, no guilt (on my part). If I had been in the wrong I probably would have felt differently..

Even tho the Jerk had cut me off and nearly ran me of the road he was still shouting after me as I pedalled away...

Tails142

I would run away too

It is so annoying though when it happens to you in a car, I got a new car recently and while I try to leave as much room for cyclists there are always some that will try to squeeze through, e.g. down the middle of two lanes of cars, past a parked car etc... on three occasions in the past month mopeds have squeezed by and actually hit off the front wing on my car where it flares out over the tyre leaving my paint scraped. Pretty annoying to be honest, feel like thumping the morons.

311

Mind the oul dear in the coming days ,she may well flaten you and say she didn't see you ,because some cyclist knocked her mirror off.:eek:;)

Tomas_V

Hmm, I did this accidentally (while driving). A RAV 4 driver was forcing his way up my inside in a cycle track. I don't know why he was so annoyed.

kona

jman0 wrote: »

God, stressful day.
Was cycling the usual route, there was about 500m length of queueing cars coming to this roundabout.
Some of them were kerb-huggers.
I've gotten good at positioning my front tyre almost making contact with the kerb while i lean my body and bike to the left, clearing the wing mirrors.
But today i clipped this wing mirror.
I think it's still attached but tbh am not sure.
It looked a bit like maybe it was sort of hanging by a rusty bolt already if you know what i mean.
Anyway i turned round to say sorry but the lady in the driver's seat was pure raging at me thru the windscreen.
There was little point holding up traffic to get shouted at by this driver so i just cycled on.
I think the wing mirror was still attached so it's not like i knocked it off.
Anyway i'm worried now about cycling that route because i wear distinctive high-viz gear. Worried that raging lady will try to do something to me if/when she sees me again.
I just wish they'd have the consideration to give me a smidget of room.
I don't need much, just about 2 feet.
There's plenty of space on that stretch of road too.

Instead i feel like a 2nd class citizen, Less Equal than those that sit inside their personal metal boxes taking up loads of road space.

dont worry man, at least now she will cop on and be a bit more considerate and leave a gap.
if she does come back just deny it down to the ground, best policy in a situation like this!!
was in a 4x4??

cunnins4

As above, don't worry about it. You can be damn sure she's gonna watch her road position more in future.

think of the cylists, pleeeaasseee think of the cylcists!

Bicyclegadabout

It’s quite hard to break these mirrors really. They’re supposed to be built to handle things like this. I’ve clipped a couple of cars, it happens.
Still, I’d like to think that if I ever did any real damage I’d stop and exchange details or something. Don’t know if I would stop, I just like to think I would

kona

ye man you really have to smash them to break them off and cause a expensive repair bill.:cool:

Mr. Presentable

I would wait for you, with a passenger. You have no right to be squeezing up inside cars. Consider, a motorist is required to drive on the left - not "on the left but with a mini lane inside him/her"!

It was accidental damage so the polite thing would be to stop. I'd say she'll have the son with her for a few weeks in case she spots you.

Raam

nipplenuts wrote: »

I would wait for you, with a passenger. You have no right to be squeezing up inside cars. Consider, a motorist is required to drive on the left - not "on the left but with a mini lane inside him/her"!

We do have a right, as that is where we are "meant" to be. There is always room to leave space for a bike on the left bar on the most narrow of roads. If most motorists can leave a gap on the left, then so can others. If there is a gap, I'll take it, provided it is safe to do so. Mind you, I've taken to passing on the right side for stationary/slow moving traffic due to bad potholes on the left of some stretches of road. It can be very dodgy as I have had people pull out very suddenly with no indication or without even looking.

goodlad

Well imo if there is damage to the mirror then a cyclist should stop, regardless of a car being too close to a kerb. Drivers are not required to leave room for cyclists. Yes its common courtesy to do it though and personally i do leave room for them. A cyclist damaged my mirror before and laughed and kept going. I confronted him the next time i seen him and said he should pay for the damage. He laughed in my face over it. The next time i seen him lets just say he wasnt laughing. A lot of cyclists seem to have an attitude towards car drivers (some of them deserve it) but thats still no right to damage there car and cycle off. By doing that your attitude is no better than the drivers that dont leave the room for you to cycle past

kona

nipplenuts wrote: »

I would wait for you, with a passenger. You have no right to be squeezing up inside cars. Consider, a motorist is required to drive on the left - not "on the left but with a mini lane inside him/her"!

It was accidental damage so the polite thing would be to stop. I'd say she'll have the son with her for a few weeks in case she spots you.

even better, then he can ty get violent, ill hit the deck and not move until the guards come, and i make sure im carried away in a ambulance.
then as i need a new carbon fibre bike, sue his ass for assault, then press charges and laugh at his sorry ass being sent down,
cyclist-1 ignorant cow-0

delly

As a car only person, I'm very conscious of giving room for cyclists and bikers, but I have to say i'm kinda disgusted with most of the responses here. I understand you guys are vulnerable on the road, but it doesn't justify possibly breaking a wing mirror that could take anything from €100 to €200 to replace.

With regards to the driver being too close to the kerb and therefore deserving it, the same goes for idiot drivers that double park and I have to go onto the wrong side of the road to get past. If I do this and have an accident as a result, I can't blame the person who double parks as I am the one who took the change knowing the risks.

kona

goodlad wrote: »

Well imo if there is damage to the mirror then a cyclist should stop, regardless of a car being too close to a kerb. Drivers are not required to leave room for cyclists. Yes its common courtesy to do it though and personally i do leave room for them. A cyclist damaged my mirror before and laughed and kept going. I confronted him the next time i seen him and said he should pay for the damage. He laughed in my face over it. The next time i seen him lets just say he wasnt laughing. A lot of cyclists seem to have an attitude towards car drivers (some of them deserve it) but thats still no right to damage there car and cycle off. By doing that your attitude is no better than the drivers that dont leave the room for you to cycle past

in fairness, it has to be safe to stop, in traffic on a bike is not.
he did turn around and sounded like he was going to stop till he saw her going ape-****.
i drive a car too , i have to say its all to easy to be ignorant and have no road manners while encased in your warm dry metal world.
in anyways i always drive in the middle of the lane as it gives you space to manouver if pedestrians jump out etc

Raam

Let's all have a read of this
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/respect.html
and this
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/pedal-cyclist.html#4
and be nice to each other

unionman

Raam wrote: »

Let's all have a read of this
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/respect.html
and this
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/pedal-cyclist.html#4
and be nice to each other

Solid advice, worth adhering to.

I sympathise with the OP on not stopping, an enraged motorist is no fun. I've clipped wing mirrors twice by accident. On both occasions I stopped to see if there was any damage (there wasn't), and mouthed apologies with a salutory wave. On both occasions I was greeted with angry abuse shouted from inside the car, so couldn't really hear them, but they looked pretty mad.

It happens easily enough, but would happen less if a lot of motorists took up a central lane position, a lot of drivers stay further left than they need to in city traffic.

As it happens, I came out to my car last Sunday morning to find the passenger wing mirror housing lying on the ground. Some pi55ed eejit must have knocked it off.

Why I oughta...:mad:

Morgan

goodlad wrote: »

The next time i seen him lets just say he wasnt laughing.

Oh? Did you run him over? Or assault him?

Gegerty

delly wrote: »

As a car only person, I'm very conscious of giving room for cyclists and bikers, but I have to say i'm kinda disgusted with most of the responses here. I understand you guys are vulnerable on the road, but it doesn't justify possibly breaking a wing mirror that could take anything from €100 to €200 to replace.

With regards to the driver being too close to the kerb and therefore deserving it, the same goes for idiot drivers that double park and I have to go onto the wrong side of the road to get past. If I do this and have an accident as a result, I can't blame the person who double parks as I am the one who took the change knowing the risks.

I think the point you're missing is that he looked back with the intention of stopping only to see her spitting venom. If someone is being aggressive over clipping a mirror, or over any kind of minor incident which is covered by insurance, you're not going to stop. If someone was being aggressive to me in a car to car wing mirror clipping incident I wouldn't stop either. Don't think the guards would be bothered with the paper work if she tried to report me. In fact come to think of it my mirror has been clipped numerous time by other cars and nobody stopped, nor would I expect them to.

Raam

I can see why a motorist would be somewhat angry in these situations: someone has just hit their car and they probably got a shock. Nothing wrong there. I'd be pretty pissed if someone hit my car and then just cycled off without waiting to see if they damaged it. It's totally normal to react with an outburst, they would probably calm down once the moment has passed. I guess there's always a chance of meeting a total loon, but if they do anything to you, there's bound to be plenty of witnesses.

customer

A few years ago a friend of mine was knocked down by a motorist (motorist's fault). He was unhurt but his bike was mangled.

The motorist proceeded to take the moral high ground so said friend placed his mangled transportation snugly through his windscreen and walked home, leaving a more philosophical motorist behind.

oobydooby

Raam wrote: »

I can see why a motorist would be somewhat angry in these situations: someone has just hit their car and they probably got a shock. Nothing wrong there. I'd be pretty pissed if someone hit my car and then just cycled off without waiting to see if they damaged it. It's totally normal to react with an outburst, they would probably calm down once the moment has passed. I guess there's always a chance of meeting a total loon, but if they do anything to you, there's bound to be plenty of witnesses.

I agree here. The cyclist should just put the hand up and say sorry. If she's a psycho (and with the traffic these days a lot of otherwise sane people are very unstable), you've apologised and she won't be able to attack you with the car anyway.

I've often been ready to chase a car/bus/van for some stupid action that nearly injures me but a hands-up from the driver or an apology when I do catch them and confront them calms me down completely - I even respect the driver then. The cyclist was in the wrong here, it was nothing serious; just apologise and leave her stew in her broth of impotence if she's fuming.

dub_skav

Couple of points here.

Firstly I don't think cyclists should be happy about damaging a car (which seems to be the case with a lot of responses her). We are all road users and should all respect eachother, if you have no respect for motorists why should they respect you?

Secondly I cannot believe how many drivers don't know the rules of the road. Many have said that they are supposed to drive to the left but are under no obligation to leave space for cyclists. This is not true, you are supposed to drive far enough to the left to allow overtaking on the right, but not so far as to obstruct cyclists.

Donny5

nipplenuts wrote: »

I would wait for you, with a passenger. You have no right to be squeezing up inside cars. Consider, a motorist is required to drive on the left - not "on the left but with a mini lane inside him/her"!

This is clap-trap, all cyclists have the right to cycle two-abreast on all main roads. Anyway, good luck waiting for a cyclist, even with a passenger, you'd never catch him/her.

When motorists start respecting cycle lanes and cyclists, then expect more courtesy.

I have been on the receiveing end of more drivers' bad descisions than I can count, including a hit-and-run, a driver doing a u-turn on a round-about, numerous people not checking their mirrors turning left, and twice by merging traffic deciding that a bike isn't really traffic and pulling out anyway. One of them lost their wing mirror to my foot.


edit: Just to clarify, I'm not condoning damaging a vehicle, then scarpering. However, the attitude that motorists shouldn't leave space for cyclists annoys the Hell outta me.

blorg

Donny5 wrote: »

This is clap-trap, all cyclists have the right to cycle two-abreast on all main roads.

Sure, but this is not the same as "drivers must leave room for cyclists behind them to cycle two-abreast up their left." It's a courtesy to leave any room, not an obligation (unless of course there is a cycle lane.)

Personally I do think a cyclist should stop and check for damage in this situation.

I have no issue with a cyclist taking a mirror off/scraping the side if a car overtakes and then turns into you (unfortunately with drop bars and STI levers this is not a no-cost option ;-) But if a cyclist is sidling up the side and collides with a stopped car, the cyclist is at fault and should make apologise and make damn sure there is no damage (and pay for any if there is.)

Tomas_V

blorg wrote: »

Sure, but this is not the same as "drivers must leave room for cyclists behind them to cycle two-abreast up their left." It's a courtesy to leave any room, not an obligation (unless of course there is a cycle lane.)

But if a driver overtakes and then slows down & the cyclists catch up, the driver has broken the overtaking laws.

Donny5

blorg wrote: »

Sure, but this is not the same as "drivers must leave room for cyclists behind them to cycle two-abreast up their left." It's a courtesy to leave any room, not an obligation (unless of course there is a cycle lane.)

To Hell with this, you put me in a car with any driver for ten minutes of city driving, or let me follow him/her on a bike and I'll find a ROTR violation, or worse.

If motorists want to hold us to the letter of the law, then they had better do it themselves. I'm starting to think I should stop and report every instance of dangerous driving, illegal parking (including in cycle lanes), driving in a bus lane, driving while on a mobile phone, opening passenger doors whilst stationary in traffic, careless left turns, lack of indication of turns, throwing cigarettes out windows, pulling over with out indicating, pulling out from the curb during traffic and blocking bus/cycle lanes, failing to stop at Stop signs (big one up the Sally Gap), failing to leave space for the pedestrian/cyclist that might be there when rounding a corner at speed, et cetera.

Of course, if anyone does something that would constitute Dangerous Driving (or assault, if deliberate), you can place them under Citizen's Arrest, and bring them to the Gardaí.

However, this is a moot point, as motorists are required to leave space for cyclists:

Make sure you drive your vehicle far enough to the left to allow traffic to safely pass or
overtake on the right but not so far to the left that you are driving on a cycle lane or
blocking or endangering cyclists or pedestrians.

-taken from Section F of the Rules of the Road.

I don't see why Irish drivers are so terrible on the roads, and if everyone just gave a bit more slack, we'd all get where we're going faster. And, drivers, think about this: the more allowance you make for cyclists, the more of us there'll be, the less of us will drive, the less traffic you'll face.

blorg

Jesus Donny no-one doubts there are some terrible motorists about but at the end of the day this does not warrant cyclists bashing up people's cars "because sure all motorists are..." (I accept this was an accident, but it is still the cyclist's fault.)

The Rules of the Road are not the law of the land but an interpretation. Also, anything in there that does not have a MUST before it is not even a legal obligation but a courtesy. The legal situation is that you MUST not drive on a MANDATORY cycle lane (solid white line), anything else, including a dashed line cycle lane, is fair game legally (I may disagree with this but that's the law.)

I actually agree with most of your points on motorist behaviour there but a cyclist colliding with a stopped car is at fault in almost any situation. If we want to hold motorists to a high standard, we have to be able to accept that sometimes a cyclist can be in the wrong.

Look at the exact flip side of your position: many motorists view cyclists with the attitude of "sure they ignore the law do what they want" and use this to justify their actions when the motorist is actually doing something wrong (turning into, ignoring a cyclist's right of way, etc...)

doozerie

Raam wrote: »

I can see why a motorist would be somewhat angry in these situations: someone has just hit their car and they probably got a shock. Nothing wrong there. I'd be pretty pissed if someone hit my car and then just cycled off without waiting to see if they damaged it. It's totally normal to react with an outburst, they would probably calm down once the moment has passed.

I agree that a motorist is perfectly entitled to be upset/annoyed if their car is damaged by someone else in the circumstances described in the original post. There is an onus on everyone in such a situation though to bear in mind that it may simply have been an accident rather than a deliberate act by the cyclist (likewise, of course, the cyclist can't just automatically dismiss the driver as being deliberately in the way and therefore not deserving of an apology or payment for the damage). If it is an accident, and the cyclist acknowledges it, then the motorist taking the "tear strips off the cyclist" approach will invariably do nothing to improve the situation or their own circumstances and will almost certainly sacrifice any chance of the cyclist offering to cover the cost of damages (rightly or wrongly). It is tough for a person to keep their cool in that situation, but it is about the only way to react if they want any chance of reaching a conclusion that might satisfy them.

...I'm not taking issue with what you wrote, by the way, or suggesting that your view is different from what I am writing. The reason I am quoting your post is really to respond to the following bit...

Raam wrote:

I guess there's always a chance of meeting a total loon, but if they do anything to you, there's bound to be plenty of witnesses.

I have learned to my cost that people are _very_ reluctant to get involved in a contentious situation, even to the extent of just acting as a witness. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you need witnesses, try to take note of the registration plates of cars containing people that witnessed the event. Apparently, the gardai can call on that person(s) to make a statement even if they haven't volunteered themselves to do so - I presume that the gardai can't require that someone make a statement, but at least it gives some chance of getting a statement from someone that couldn't be bothered hanging around to help out.