clipped a wing mirror today.

Raam

doozerie wrote: »

I have learned to my cost that people are _very_ reluctant to get involved in a contentious situation, even to the extent of just acting as a witness.

What happened to you? It's a pity that some people can be reluctant to help out.

doozerie

Raam wrote: »

What happened to you? It's a pity that some people can be reluctant to help out.

I had a run-in with a driver while I was cycling, which involved him hitting me with his car. This all happened in front of a long queued of stopped cars, and two stopped cyclists, all of whom just drove/cycled away.

The only person who offered any assistance at all was another cyclist who arrived on the scene after the worst of it was over and while I was already on the phone to the gardai. The gardai found in favour of the driver despite everything (including my showing them the damage to my bike, and despite the fact that the driver was in a bus lane, and I suspect also driving alone on a provisional license with no L plates). If even one witness had stopped then the outcome would probably have been very different.

mikemac

doozerie wrote: »

I had a run-in with a driver while I was cycling, which involved him hitting me with his car. This all happened in front of a long queued of stopped cars, and two stopped cyclists, all of whom just drove/cycled away.

The only person who offered any assistance at all was another cyclist who arrived on the scene after the worst of it was over and while I was already on the phone to the gardai. The gardai found in favour of the driver despite everything (including my showing them the damage to my bike, and despite the fact that the driver was in a bus lane, and I suspect also driving alone on a provisional license with no L plates). If even one witness had stopped then the outcome would probably have been very different.

My sympathies.
I wouldn't automatically blame people if they are reluctant to get involved.
I've done it and it was thankless and I ended up getting threats from the driver who I reported was at fault when the garda asked me.
If I'm ever witness to a minor accident between two cars again then I'm walking away, even if I'm the only witness around.

As I learned here after my own cycle accident, it doesn't matter what the gardai thinks, they were just recording information when the accident happened.
If you took the driver to court to recover your costs, it's the judge who decides, not the garda.

doozerie

micmclo wrote: »

My sympathies.
I wouldn't automatically blame people if they are reluctant to get involved.
I've done it and it was thankless and I ended up getting threats from the driver who I reported was at fault when the garda asked me.
If I'm ever witness to a minor accident between two cars again then I'm walking away, even if I'm the only witness around.

As I learned here after my own cycle accident, it doesn't matter what the gardai thinks, they were just recording information when the accident happened.
If you took the driver to court to recover your costs, it's the judge who decides, not the garda.

It can make a huge difference what the gardai think, as in my case they gave the driver the option of pressing charges against me for criminal damage (for a dent to his car). I haven't heard back from them, so I am presuming the driver isn't pursuing this option, but if he did/does then that has very serious implications for me as I could end up with a criminal record.

I can appreciate that acting as a witness can be a lot of hassle, but the consequences of not going to that trouble could be very severe for the person who has been wronged (depending on the circumstances of course).

oobydooby

doozerie wrote: »

It can make a huge difference what the gardai think, as in my case they gave the driver the option of pressing charges against me for criminal damage (for a dent to his car). I haven't heard back from them, so I am presuming the driver isn't pursuing this option, but if he did/does then that has very serious implications for me as I could end up with a criminal record.

I can appreciate that acting as a witness can be a lot of hassle, but the consequences of not going to that trouble could be very severe for the person who has been wronged (depending on the circumstances of course).

I think I remember you telling about that story. Is it the same as the one you told here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54603411#post54603411

Do you think it's wise admitting to your reaction on an internet forum? (especially if I infer correctly that you were dealing with one of the bad eggs in the force). The lack of witnesses might be working in your favour here! Also this earlier version of your story is a different situation to the accidental clipping of a mirror which could not possibly accrue criminal charges.

There's a seanfhocal I was reading recently on the back of my sugar sachet about a good word in court....
<edit - not quite as apt as I'd thought>
Is fearr cara sa chúirt ná punt sa sparán. Better a friend in court than a pound in the purse

doozerie

oobydooby wrote: »

I'm gonna delete/edit that link in a while but do you think it's wise admitting to your reaction on an internet forum? (especially if I infer correctly that you were dealing with one of the bad eggs in the force). The lack of witnesses might be working in your favour here! Also this earlier version of your story is a different situation to the accidental clipping of a mirror which could not possibly accrue criminal charges.

Admitting to which reaction? If you are talking about the fact that I put a dent in his car (after he had hit me), then I told the gardai that at the time (didn't actually realise I had dented it initially, only noticed it after the driver moaned about it to the gardai and then I told them that I had hit it about there - hitting it was an instinctive reaction to something coming at/for me rather than anything planned) and I put it in my statement later. I was completely honest about everything that happened, which was a mistake as it happens 'cos the driver wasn't and they chose to believe his version of events.

As for a "bad egg" in the police force, I don't consider the gardai involved bad eggs. I believe they just didn't care enough on the day to do the important things like take note of details such as the damage to my bike (so that later on all they remembered was the dent in the car of the "poor young fella"). I find it hard to imagine how the lack of witnesses worked in my favour.

And I wasn't comparing this incident to clipping a wing mirror, I only mentioned the incident at all to point out that you can't necessarily rely on eye witnesses to hang around to help you out when you have been wronged. But having said that, I could foresee someone being charged with criminal damage for damaging a wing mirror as it can be hard to prove that damage was caused accidentally so it could be a case of the cyclist's word against that of the driver and the outcome of that is a lottery at best.

stepbar

customer wrote: »

A few years ago a friend of mine was knocked down by a motorist (motorist's fault). He was unhurt but his bike was mangled.

The motorist proceeded to take the moral high ground so said friend placed his mangled transportation snugly through his windscreen and walked home, leaving a more philosophical motorist behind.

Your friend is a legend

oobydooby

doozerie wrote: »

Admitting to which reaction? If you are talking about the fact that I put a dent in his car (after he had hit me), then I told the gardai that at the time (didn't actually realise I had dented it initially, only noticed it after the driver moaned about it to the gardai and then I told them that I had hit it about there - hitting it was an instinctive reaction to something coming at/for me rather than anything planned) and I put it in my statement later. I was completely honest about everything that happened, which was a mistake as it happens 'cos the driver wasn't and they chose to believe his version of events.

As for a "bad egg" in the police force, I don't consider the gardai involved bad eggs. I believe they just didn't care enough on the day to do the important things like take note of details such as the damage to my bike (so that later on all they remembered was the dent in the car of the "poor young fella"). I find it hard to imagine how the lack of witnesses worked in my favour.

And I wasn't comparing this incident to clipping a wing mirror, I only mentioned the incident at all to point out that you can't necessarily rely on eye witnesses to hang around to help you out when you have been wronged. But having said that, I could foresee someone being charged with criminal damage for damaging a wing mirror as it can be hard to prove that damage was caused accidentally so it could be a case of the cyclist's word against that of the driver and the outcome of that is a lottery at best.

Fair enough, sorry I had misinterpreted your words to mean that you dented his bonnet in retribution, perhaps in a temper. If it's all in the statement then it's moot about posting your story here. By the way, as regards the member of the garda, that's what I'd consider a "bad egg"! That's the type who gives the others a poorer regard with the public, if they were negligent or sloppy in recording the facts of the incident.

You're right, witnesses would have helped you but hopefully nothing will come of this. If you had smacked the car in anger as I'd originally misread then the lack of witness might have helped.

MarkR

Leaving the scene of an accident is a no no. If the vehicle was stationary then you weren't watching the road ahead of you or driving to suit the conditions. If the gap is too small you should have stopped. Being put off by a cross looking woman isn't a excuse. Karma will catch up with you at some stage.

jman0

MarkR wrote: »

Leaving the scene of an accident is a no no. If the vehicle was stationary then you weren't watching the road ahead of you or driving to suit the conditions. If the gap is too small you should have stopped. Being put off by a cross looking woman isn't a excuse. Karma will catch up with you at some stage.

Oh Boohoo.
The silly woman should have been leaving room for cyclists.
Karma caught up to her.

Bicyclegadabout

Is there such a thing as 3rd party bicycle insurance?

MarkR

jman0 wrote: »

Oh Boohoo.
The silly woman should have been leaving room for cyclists.
Karma caught up to her.

Very mature. Hypothetically, if the driver had clipped a cyclist while they were breaking a red light and driven off, would your response be the same?

The op caused damage and should have stopped.

jman0

MarkR wrote: »

Very mature. Hypothetically, if the driver had clipped a cyclist while they were breaking a red light and driven off, would your response be the same?

The op caused damage and should have stopped.

No because a motorist is commandering a large metal box that takes up a large amount of public space, is a major polluter and travels at speeds which result in carnage and death when they hit something.

BTW i was involved in an accident whereby a tourist bus over took me on a narrow stretch then angled quickly back to the kerb sending me flying.
He stopped, refused to provide his details and fled the scene.
I contacted the gards and they did nothing.
There was no cycle lane or any such nonsense provided.
So using that as my personal precedent, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

MarkR

So unless that male bus driver changed sexes, we are talking about two different people? Two wrongs don't make a right. What the op did was wrong. What the bus driver did was wrong. The guards not following it up was wrong.
Btw, i'm loving the sweeping generalisations.

blorg

Bicyclegadabout wrote: »

Is there such a thing as 3rd party bicycle insurance?

Yes, and members of for example the CTC in the UK are covered. Cycling Ireland provide both personal accident and public liability insurance but I am not sure if these are just for sanctioned events.

Bicyclegadabout

blorg wrote: »

Yes, and members of for example the CTC in the UK are covered. Cycling Ireland provide both personal accident and public liability insurance but I am not sure if these are just for sanctioned events.

That's good. If you do break someone’s mirror, there’s not much point in stopping unless you have 3rd party (except to just be nice). I mean, there’s no way I could afford a replacement mirror for a car.

Traumadoc

Damaging the car and running away shows the character of the OP.
a damaged wing mirror can cost a few hundred euro to replace, the insurance will have an excess of a few hundred euro so is not full covered, plus they will lose their no claims bonus- well done.

MadDogGreener

A cyclist went into back of my friends car last summer while she was stationary in a queue for red lights. He broke the rear light cluster, dented the rear quarter panel and left a deep scratch to the metal. Needless to say he fled like a true coward. Repair bill €90 for the light and €300 for the respray/panel repair. Lots of witnesses in the stationary traffic not that was any use.

Hopefully karma caught up with him soon after. Quite worrying really that he was unable to cycle around large stationary objects without hitting one. God forbid he doesn't (hasnt?) hit something less visible like a pedestrian.


Should add that I cycle too (I'm one of those rare breed of cyclists who acutally stops at red lights) and have my fair share of incidents on the road with muppet drivers including been knocked down by car turning left without indicating.
Hitting a stationary car, causing €€€s worth of damage, and just pissing off is unbelivable.