Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Some Useful Tips...On Banking...From a Banker
Options
-
19-12-2007 5:10am#1I've been in Banking for years now, and the amount of people, with loads/lack of.... money...who have not got a clue about Banking, never fails to amaze me.
Listen lads, it is YOUR money, so wise yourself up, go read up and educate yourself about Banks!!!
For a start, come the New Year, at least a Zillion of you will lash out, and join gyms, on Jan 2nd, swearing to lose that 20st, only to give up totally, by Jan 9th!!! Another Zillion of you, will break into a gallop madly, blindly entering into Financial Agreements/Insurance Policies/ Savings Plans/ Re-Mortgages/Loans/etc...without realising you are actually signing up for MAYBE....10-12 years of monetary misery!!!
I CANNOT tell you what... or what not...to do....(Conflict of Interest...after all...your collective ignorance...meant I got a 12k BONUS this Christmas), but, here are a few tips:
The DIFFERENCE between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit...is HUGE!!!
And MOST people think they are both the same. NO, they are not. ALWAYS, ALWAYS...choose the Standing Order option for payments, even though, many, many Creditors/Companies/Service Suppliers will demand a Direct Debit. Stand your ground, on this, if/when... you can. Just remember, that a Standing Order...is a payment, whose DATE/FREQUENCY/AMOUNT is under YOUR CONTROL, and you must be informed of any payment increases. Plus, with a Standing Order you NEVER give/reveal ANY of your Banking Details, to the receiver/benificiary.
TIP: A Standing Order...ALWAYS works in YOUR favour, YOU control it, and the Benificiary only gets what YOU decide to give him.
A DIRECT DEBIT...means...you give every bleedin' detail of your Bank Account, plus, you sign a Direct Debit Mandate... allowing the Creditor/Benificiary...to dip into your Account, whenever and for how much, as they so choose!! So, ie, if your payment to SKY TV started off as 24Euro, and suddenly, without you noticing, it has become 42Euro, and you had not been advised of any increase...eh...tough titty. Your problem...YOU signed the Direct Debit Mandate. Do not come crying to the Bank, when you've been overcharged by 1000's, it's NOT the Bank's problem!! Your own stupidity IS the problem. Also, if you decide at 10am to STOP paying a DD, inform the Bank, at 10.01am...otherwise it just keeps going out. NEVER ASSUME...the Banks stops paying out D/D's, just coz' you decide it's no longer worth it, or the Loan has finished.
Here's an example.....Mary (NOT her Real Name!!), 73 yrs old, was one of my "Managed" customers. One day, Mary called in, and we were talking, and the topic was TV's. I had just bought a new, 42" Plasma, and was idly telling Mary about it. Mary says, "sure I hired a TV years ago, and it's still grand. No problem. And, sure it only costs me 15 Euro a month, even now".
Turns out, (eventually!!) Mary had been paying a H/P Agreement, for a little 16in TV, since 1974, to a TV Rental Company, which folded in 1989!!! We DID get Mary's money back, when her son, verified her Mental Competancy. Mary got back, some mad amount of money, from the Insolvency Funds, of that Company. She died, soon after.
TIP: Do NOT allow yourself to be a MARY!!!
Here's another familliar one...NEVER assume your Overdraft Facility...is still approved, or in place. Check to see, or face humiliation/grovelling when your Mortgage Payment, or that really important Cheque...has totally been rejected or... BOUNCED!! An Overdraft costs you E25.39 per year...whereas each "Bounced" payment....costs you E6.64, and...sadly...your good name!!! We deal with a Ton of these, every day, and your crying, weeping, is instantly dismissed by us. Sorry.
TIP: Know your Financial Limits.
The MAX Amount you can withdraw on your ATM Card =E600...Daily.
TIP: NO amount of pleading, threats,etc...will increase this. Set in stone.
Ringing ANY Bank...without your Personal Bank Details to hand... is ...FOOLISH. And, yes, all Banks DO treat you as eejits/ FOOLS..totally...when you do!!! Yes, we CAN...locate your details....but...every second...is costing you Euros...big time.
TIP:
Always ring your Banks on the Freephone Number, and always have your details to hand!
Any other questions>>0
Comments
-
Nice advice. I'msure you will get loads of questions. WHat type of banking were you in?0
-
I accept what you're saying to a degree but there are a few issues I'd like to raise.Another Zillion of you, will break into a gallop madly, blindly entering into Financial Agreements/Insurance Policies/ Savings Plans/ Re-Mortgages/Loans/etc...without realising you are actually signing up for MAYBE....10-12 years of monetary misery!!!
The owness here is on the salesperson to make clear what's being sold and why. A full fact find/know your customer document should be completed and a written reasons why as to why that product is being recommended should be signed by both the buyer and seller. I work in Financial Services and would never let a person leave my office if they weren't fully aware and happy with what they had signed up to - in a case that they weren't happy, I wouldn't let them sign an agreement in the first place. There's a lot of mis-selling out there still.The DIFFERENCE between a Standing Order and a Direct Debit...is HUGE!!!
And MOST people think they are both the same. NO, they are not. ALWAYS, ALWAYS...choose the Standing Order option for payments, even though, many, many Creditors/Companies/Service Suppliers will demand a Direct Debit. Stand your ground, on this, if/when... you can. Just remember, that a Standing Order...is a payment, whose DATE/FREQUENCY/AMOUNT is under YOUR CONTROL, and you must be informed of any payment increases. Plus, with a Standing Order you NEVER give/reveal ANY of your Banking Details, to the receiver/benificiary.
TIP: A Standing Order...ALWAYS works in YOUR favour, YOU control it, and the Benificiary only gets what YOU decide to give him.
A DIRECT DEBIT...means...you give every bleedin' detail of your Bank Account, plus, you sign a Direct Debit Mandate... allowing the Creditor/Benificiary...to dip into your Account, whenever and for how much, as they so choose!! So, ie, if your payment to SKY TV started off as 24Euro, and suddenly, without you noticing, it has become 42Euro, and you had not been advised of any increase...eh...tough titty. Your problem...YOU signed the Direct Debit Mandate. Do not come crying to the Bank, when you've been overcharged by 1000's, it's NOT the Bank's problem!! Your own stupidity IS the problem. Also, if you decide at 10am to STOP paying a DD, inform the Bank, at 10.01am...otherwise it just keeps going out. NEVER ASSUME...the Banks stops paying out D/D's, just coz' you decide it's no longer worth it, or the Loan has finished.
I agree with you 100% about the control aspect but I would argue this in the case of mortgages. If someone who was in the process of taking out a mortgage said they wanted to set up a standing order as opposed to a direct debit mandate, they would be told "sorry, but take your business elsewhere". The variable nature of mortgage products would mean that a bank would need the availability of that variant.Here's an example.....Mary (NOT her Real Name!!), 73 yrs old, was one of my "Managed" customers. One day, Mary called in, and we were talking, and the topic was TV's. I had just bought a new, 42" Plasma, and was idly telling Mary about it. Mary says, "sure I hired a TV years ago, and it's still grand. No problem. And, sure it only costs me 15 Euro a month, even now".
Turns out, (eventually!!) Mary had been paying a H/P Agreement, for a little 16in TV, since 1974, to a TV Rental Company, which folded in 1989!!! We DID get Mary's money back, when her son, verified her Mental Competancy. Mary got back, some mad amount of money, from the Insolvency Funds, of that Company. She died, soon after.
TIP: Do NOT allow yourself to be a MARY!!!
Fair play - for every one of you, there are many in the banking industry that wouldn't have given a sh1t about looking into this on her behalf. That to me is customer service on the highest level.0 -
Your...post..IS..very..hard..to...READ!!!!
The advice may be good, but you might want to clean it up a bit if you want people to read through all that
0 -
ALWAYS, ALWAYS...choose the Standing Order option for payments, even though, many, many Creditors/Companies/Service Suppliers will demand a Direct Debit. Stand your ground, on this, if/when... you can.
Can I ask about this please?
How, for example do I replace a DD with a SO, with any of the services companies that I currently have an agreement with?
I was always aware of the difference, but when they give you the form to sign, how do you tear it up and give them the SO form that you want them to sign so to speak?0 -
Very true about people mixing up SO and DD, thinking the names are interlinked. Originator Plus DD also cause lots of headachess, they basically mean the bank can't cancel as long as the electronic signature is still valid.
In some cases you will need to allow a DD as the payment fluctuates i.e. mortgage. However with things like ESB I'd only ever manually pay myself via internet banking.
Also, the worst thing you can ever do is setup a DD to be paid from your visa. Man, they're a nightmare.0 -
Advertisement
-
I'm a banker too and I agree with all of the above. In fact you could write another 10 pages on the crap practiced by banks in the name of the profit agenda.
I personally stopped signing dd's around 10 years ago. I was paid a pittance at the time so I had to actively manage my finances to survive. I had a mobile with Esat at the time and as a result of them debiting me twice and for too much one month, I went into the red. When I phoned them and put this to them they agreed that they had taken too much and taken it twice and when I asked for it back they said they would subtract it off subsequent bills which wasn't much use to me at the time. DD's are are a crazy idea, its almost the equivalent of just handing your wallet to a complete stranger. I haven't signed one since - either the provider accepts my word that I will pay or I do my business elsewhere. I try to save as heavily as I can so I usually run a fairly lean current account (discourages overspending on crap you don't need) and it is easier to do this when you are in control of the bills.
A few years ago a guy I know asked me for advice on a savings scheme he had been sold in another branch of the bank I worked for at the time. I looked it up the following monday at his request and it turned out he had a 20 year PIP. This guy was only around 19 when this product was sold to him and he hadn't a clue what he was getting. Obviously at his age he would have been saving for a house or a car and a 20 year PIP was a stupid product to sell him. It would be appropriate for someone who had the house and the car and wanted to build up a college fund for a new baby or some other long term requirement. Like many who are mis-sold products he had to cash it in at a loss to himself.
That particular bank which I worked for at that time has twice weekly sales meetings for all customer facing staff. At the monday morning meeting you would be told to get say 5 car loans, 2 investments, 2 pensions and a homeloan. Come friday your actual result for the week would be read out on front of the other staff and you were asked why you only got 3 car loans etc. It was basically organised bullying and it encouraged mis-selling. The reality was that you may not have had meetings with 5 customers who needed car loans or 2 who genuinely needed investment products (or more specifically the crap investment products of that bank) in the week in question. This bullying led to alot of stress related sick leave in the bank.
I don't work for that bank anymore but my old colleagues tell me that the sales push is even worse now than it was when I was there. Due to current difficulties with getting capital to fund loans (as a result of the sub prime mortgages issue) the banks have turned even more so to non-loan related income (savings and investments, pensions etc) to generate revenue.
There's an old joke in that same bank about the guy who goes into a branch looking for a car loan and he comes out half an hour later with a PIP and a Visa card and no car loan..... let the buyer beware cos IFSRA wont save you.0 -
How, for example do I replace a DD with a SO, with any of the services companies that I currently have an agreement with?
So no one is going to provide any information on how to actually do something useful and transfer a DD to a SO?
Come on, this is making me think that the 2 bankers posting in this thread are in fact not interested in helping us poor schmucks out at all...0 -
i presume it involves 2 phone calls and a trip to the bank.So no one is going to provide any information on how to actually do something useful and transfer a DD to a SO?
Come on, this is making me think that the 2 bankers posting in this thread are in fact not interested in helping us poor schmucks out at all...
one to the supplier to say you are no longer paying by direct debit, get agreement from them and the details needed to pay by SO.
then call the bank to confirm cancellation of the dd.
once the next bill is received and you confirm that the payment method is no longer dd and no money has left your account go to the branch and sign a SO form.0 -
Cancel the DD mandate with both the company and the bank. Then ask the company for their account details and the payment reference needed e.g. your account number with them. Set up the SO with your bank with these details and choose the amount/date.
SO can only be setup by you with your bank, not with a third party.
BTW Boa, banks must now sell the product best suited to the customers need. They cannot mis-sell them something they don't need. If they do the customer can renege on it (or will be able to). This is due to a very recent successful case by a woman.0 -
...banks must now sell the product best suited to the customers need. They cannot mis-sell them something they don't need. If they do the customer can renege on it (or will be able to). This is due to a very recent successful case by a woman.
You're right Sangre but I've still seen mis selling going on. Justification is always found by the banks. Some of those guys can make square pegs go into round holes so easily that you'd believe the pegs were round in the first place.0 -
Advertisement
-
Cancel the DD mandate with both the company and the bank. Then ask the company for their account details and the payment reference needed e.g. your account number with them. Set up the SO with your bank with these details and choose the amount/date.
Cheers guys,
And I presume this works best with a "fixed" SO like NTL for example, but what about the ESB where the figure differs month to month? In such cases is DD the only way that they will accept payment?0 -
Couldn't agree more with the OP. Everything he says is completerly true. I worked for a well known bank for a good number of years and all they cared about in the end was profits and sales targets. Customer service went out the window. I remember one time at a staff meeting being told to sell credit cards instead of personal loans to customers who were looking for small loans. One staff member objected very strongly and those of us who had some sense of morality agreed!0
-
With the likes of ESB/GAS etc., where bills fluctate I wouldn't setup a DD or a SO but pay the bill via telephone/internet banking manually once the bill came in.
As has been noted this means you can keep the current a/c balance to a minimum which maximises what you can save and minimises potential fraud on the account.0 -
BTW Boa, banks must now sell the product best suited to the customers need. They cannot mis-sell them something they don't need. If they do the customer can renege on it (or will be able to). This is due to a very recent successful case by a woman.
There have been a number of successful cases by individuals who were mis-sold financial products but I can guarantee you it is still going on all the time. I bet that if you trawled the internet for the next 24 hours you wouldn't find 20 cases in this country where a customer who was mis-sold a product made a complaint and the bank in question was punished adequately to deter them from allowing it to happen again. I would bet that every year there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of cases of mis-selling.
If you think about it, even in a case where a customer follows the bank and is successfull, all the bank has to do, is make good the loss to the customer - they aren't usually fined a substantial amount or seriously punished. Its obvious that it still makes sense for banks to mis-sell. If they mis-sell 100 PIPS and 3 are successfull in an action against the bank they still make a hell of alot of money from the 97 (have you seen the charges on them things).
It is quite difficult to pursue a bank successfully, only a small percentage of wronged customers will be able and the banks know this. Its not the case that you can renege on the purchase - remember in a case where a customer has suffered a loss at the hands of a bank, the bank has the money and the customer has to take action to get it back. You know what they say about possession being 9/10ths of the law.
I tried to pursue a bank a few years ago for breaching the Data Protection Act by carrying out an ICB check on me (without authority from me to do so). I sent several letters to the bank and then several more to the Data Protection Commissioner and both tried to thwart me at every turn. The Data Protection Commissioner initially refused to look at my case because I wasn't a customer of the bank. I went digging through a box in my attic and found a deposit book from about 15 years earlier which miraculously was still open. I then wrote back to the DPC to inform him that I was actuallly a customer so he had to take the complaint. After much to-ing and fro-ing the DPC eventually wrote to me to inform me that my complaint was upheld (he found in my favour). I wrote back to ask him what action he would take and he replied that he would take none as he didn't have any powers in this regard. This was after about 2 years of argument. The reason I pursued this was because I wanted to test what would happen if I carried out an ICB check without authority at work and the customer complained (it would sometimes happen in lending that a customer would apply for a loan but refuse to sign the ICB authority). Anyway, I got my answer - there was effectively no punishment even though the office of the DPC was continuously being held out as being the great protector of the common man. To this day I always have a little snigger when the Report of the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner is published and I see Joe Meade on the news that evening bragging about all the complaints they have upheld against the banks - its b*llsh*t.
By the way, I have worked in banking for all my adult life. If I found it this difficult to get a positive ruling and no action on the back of it, can you imagine how difficult someone who doesn't know the legislation (I have to know it to do my job) and doesn't know the in's and out's of banking, would find it.
The whole Financial Regulator/Data Protection Commissioner/Dir of Consumer Affairs lark is a smokescreen and anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.
I'll say it again - let the buyer beware.0 -
Hasn't the most recent big case caused new legislation/regulations to be implemented (or drafted) that will put more of a onus on the bank and hopefully make such claims easier? I'm not 100% sure about this though as I'm not in sales.0
-
boa-constrictor wrote: »The whole Financial Regulator/Data Protection Commissioner/Dir of Consumer Affairs lark is a smokescreen and anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.
I disagree. I can't speak for the banking sector but certainly in brokerage it's very stringent. 2 brokers in Donegal recently had their authorisations revoked on the basis that they did not carry out a sufficient fact finding process prior to selling products and also failed to disclose fees.0 -
Hang on. Here's the REAL map guide.
If you pay...Rent...Or..E250 to your Mam+Dad per month....anything..that's Fixed Amount/Same Date Debit...THAT's a Standing Order.
Basically...you decide...The Amount/ The Date it's Paid./Frequency....that's a Standing Order. Any problems...call your Bank Branch.
Ie...You Control this payment. You sort it with your Bank. NO Personal BANK ACCOUNT DETAILS REVEALED.
A Direct Debit...MEANS...You give ALL your Banking Details...to a Company/T/A Acc/Individual....and you personally SIGN...a Direct Debit Mandate
which means...that ANY ONE of the ABOVE...has your absolute PERMISSION to dip into your account/s...and TAKE/DEBIT....whatever they like...whenever they like....For how ever long they like...WITH YOUR TOTAL PERMISSION!!!
Ie...You have NO CONTROL over ANY PAYMENTS...TAKEN from your Accounts. And...The Bank is NOT liable either...coz' YOU signed for it.
So..the SKY Payments...which you AGREED.....,as E24.90.....suddenly became...E37.50....with NO Notification....it's totally YOUR Problem!!!
Any problems??? Call SKY TV.
NOT...a Bank problem!!!
Bye Bye0 -
I'm going to wager that a lot of your 10k bonus was spent last night down the pub before you came back to write that post.
In short, you just said exactly the same there as you did in your first post, albeit with more red top CAPITALIZATION. It doesn't provide any further insight into how people could do anything useful with your "information".0 -
sing_dumb as I previously pointed out, it would be a massive help if you posted more legibly. Less of the extraneous CAPITALISATION and ....'s would make it lot easier for people to read 0
-
I don't think any service provider (ESB, NTL etc.) is under an obligation to accept a SO instead of a DD.
They're perfectly entitled to insist on a DD and decline your business if you don't agree. If anyone has an option to use PPV on their TV subscription then their monthly payments effectively aren't fixed so a SO is not appropriate. Ditto ESB, gas etc.
Comparing DD & SO is like comparing apples & oranges.0 -
Advertisement
-
threebeards wrote: »I disagree. I can't speak for the banking sector but certainly in brokerage it's very stringent. 2 brokers in Donegal recently had their authorisations revoked on the basis that they did not carry out a sufficient fact finding process prior to selling products and also failed to disclose fees.
Well I am genuinely not trying to troll but I have said it before on the boards so I might as well let you know that I wouldn't be too complementary when it comes to brokers
I'm a commercial and property lender and I used to deal with brokers until I got my fill of it. I won't accept referrals from them now as I have found that too many of them try to churn on the loan to another bank after a year or two in order to get another fee. I find it very insulting when a broker rings me and tells me that Mr X who took out a mortgage with my Bank a couple of years ago is shopping around for a better rate. And wait for the good bit "I have advised him to stick with you but he is insisting on moving". Some brokers think you are as thick as sh1t when you know damn well that the broker is encouraging the customer to move for a marginally better INTRODUCTORY rate and in reality is not providing good advice at all.
I work for a bank which is able to move fast and get loan approval for a customer in a few days which allows them to take advantage of good opportunities and make alot of money (I'm talking about large amounts for commercial purposes here, not residential mortgages for €500k). What some smartarses think they can do is get the good fast service from us and refinance with a more mainstream bank at a lower rate a month later. The mainstream bank will probably do the deal if we did it initially but they will take ages to issue an offer letter (due to the disadvantages associated with being a large organisation and their general incompetence). It doesn't bother me as there are ways and means of discouraging this.
Also, brokers normally like to be the contact with the customer and some take umbrage at the lender contacting the customer directly. Because of this key parts of the information can get lost in the telling.
It would be ok if the broker actually added any value to the deal but most brokers just let the bank do all the work. If they knew a bit about commercial lending and were able to put a proposal together and present it to the bank in a half bankable format they would be adding value. Most just ask the bank for X amount of money and then you have to tell them all the questions to ask the customer.
We had a deal from a broker where the customer was paying a €40k arrangement fee and as usual this was being split 50/50 with the broker. The day before the funds were due to draw the broker called to say that the customer was going to another bank unless we reduced the fee to €20k and he wanted all of the €20k. We reduced the fee, gave him the €20k and then cut him loose.
A wise businessman once said "always leave something for the other guy".
Also, recently I called into a broker for advice / rates on placing €125k on fixed deposit. He sent me a letter a few days later with a list of rates which were for demand deposits not fixed and were just cut and pasted from the internet. He never mentioned that there was a meeting scheduled for later that week to decide whether to raise the ECB rate (which is very relevant for someone putting funds on fixed deposit). It just so happens that I knew this was happening due to my occupation (he doesn't know I'm a banker) and I arranged the fixed deposit with AIB myself by picking up the phone.
What is the point in using brokers if they don't add value. If brokers did what they're supposed to do I would use them all the time cos I am, like most people, time poor. Like auctioneers they have had it good over the last few years and its going to take them a bit of time to get used of working now that the Celtic Tiger has calmed down.
In my view, if a person is part of a process where there are costs involved, and that person doesn't add value, they get pushed out eventually. Simple economics and totally correct that it should be that way.
I don't agree that brokers are sufficiently regulated. I know people who have set up brokerages who are lucky to have a job at all.0 -
I don't think any service provider (ESB, NTL etc.) is under an obligation to accept a SO instead of a DD.
They're perfectly entitled to insist on a DD and decline your business if you don't agree. If anyone has an option to use PPV on their TV subscription then their monthly payments effectively aren't fixed so a SO is not appropriate. Ditto ESB, gas etc.
Comparing DD & SO is like comparing apples & oranges.
I don't think anyone suggested that they HAD to accept a SO (as you say it isn't practical to pay variable bills by SO) but most will give you the option of paying by DD or making the payments manually yourself. They way I do it is I pay manually via internet banking. It gives me control and reduces the chance of getting shafted (which happened to me again recently at the hands of BT Ireland - continued to charge me for services which were cancelled over a year ago). At present I have no standing orders from my account and I find it excellent. It used to be the case that I had one credit of salary per month followed by a stack of debits with SFA left for me. Theres something about making the payments yourself that focusses the mind on how much your spending.
Due to increased competition, hopefully you should have the option to vote with your feet if the provider wont provide service without a dd (not in the case of ESB obviously).0 -
I don't think any service provider (ESB, NTL etc.) is under an obligation to accept a SO instead of a DD.
They're perfectly entitled to insist on a DD and decline your business if you don't agree. If anyone has an option to use PPV on their TV subscription then their monthly payments effectively aren't fixed so a SO is not appropriate. Ditto ESB, gas etc.
Comparing DD & SO is like comparing apples & oranges.
They won't know if you do. Vodafone insisted I have a direct debit mandate so I sent them the details. After the first month I cancelled the direct debit with my bank & just lodged to my vodafone reference with online banking.(the way I wanted to do it)
One could easily cancel the mandate with their bank & set up a SO to the account reference. They manage their arrears by exception so once you keep your account up to date they'll never know.
I don't actually mind DDs myself, have two of them, one thing I would say is to ensure you cancel a DD when you're no longer using the comany's services. They seem to forget to cancel them from their end a lot!0
Advertisement