Domestic Alarms - garda responses

faceman

I was quite surprised to read a change in the gardai's policy on house alarms in the paper today. Surprised because i didnt realise they did this at all.

From now on, gardai will respond to domestic house alarms that arent part of a monitoring network as long as there hasnt been a previous false alarm. However if you have previously had a false alarm that they responded to, they wont respond again to your house unless you register with a monitoring network.

I didnt realise they responded to house alarms unless its clear a burglarly etc is in progress.

Paulw

Gardai will always respond to an alarm from a monitoring centre such as Eircom PhoneWatch. They have an agreement to respond within a certain amount of time too.

An unmonitored alarm, they will generally not respond to (since they don't even know the alarm has gone off), but they can't enter the premises unless their is a visible sign of intrusion.

godtabh

So becasue the Gardai have a deal with a comerical ogranisation you dont get the same level of service unless you pay a fee?

Doesnt seem right

Paulw

No, the reason they respond to monitoring centres is that they log a call about an intrusion.

If no one calls the Gardai about an alarm activation, how are they supposed to know about it?

Otherwise, the same rules apply - they won't enter the premises, unless someone gives them access. Other than that, they legally can't enter unless they see visible signs of an intrusion.

astrofool

The garda will respond to two sensor's being tripped on an Eircom phonewatch system (e.g. window + pressure), but not if only one is tripped, we recently had to add a pressure sensor upstairs for this.

Paulw

I've never heard that before. Most rooms only have one sensor on them. Normally window.

That's certainly not mentioned in their T&Cs, and wasn't the case when I used to work there.

Any one sensor will trigger the alarm, and it will notify the monitoring station in PhoneWatch. They then must act on that.

Del2005

Paulw wrote: »

I've never heard that before. Most rooms only have one sensor on them. Normally window.

That's certainly not mentioned in their T&Cs, and wasn't the case when I used to work there.

Any one sensor will trigger the alarm, and it will notify the monitoring station in PhoneWatch. They then must act on that.

I think the reason they have added the 2nd alarm event is because of so many false alarms and the Gardai responding to false alarms. AFAIK if the Gardai respond to 3 false alarms they stop responding or start charging for the responses. By adding an internal sensor and getting a 2nd alarm event you are confirming to the Gardai that someone has broken in and not just a bird hitting the window. It's to stop wasting Garda time with false alarms.

Paulw

After 2 false alarms, the Gardai issue a warning letter. After the 3rd they will not respond to your premises for 6 months.

If you need 2 activations, then many homes would not be covered, since you could potentially enter one single room, clean it out, and only activate a single sensor.

But, before they change the regulations requiring two activations, they would need to inform all customers, and so would all the other monitoring services.

Has anyone received confirmation of this change in writing? If not, then I don't believe that the policy has actually changed.

fishdog

Gardai will always respond to an alarm from a monitoring centre such as Eircom PhoneWatch.

No, this is incorrect. They will only respond if a keyholder has been contacted and agrees that he/she can be present when the gardai arrive.

An unmonitored alarm, they will generally not respond to (since they don't even know the alarm has gone off)

If the alarm is heard by a neighbour or if it rings a keyholder directly (not via a monitoring station) the gardai will turn up if contacted. I have had personal experience of this. My alarm rings me and 3 others in the event of an activation saving me costly monitoring fees.

The garda will respond to two sensor's being tripped on an Eircom phonewatch system (e.g. window + pressure), but not if only one is tripped, we recently had to add a pressure sensor upstairs for this.

This is correct. Due to the large volume of false alarms costing many man hours the gardai decided that they would not respond to just one alarm sensor going off.

In my view this is because there is no recognised qualification in this country for alarm installers resulting in very low standards. I formed this opinion from working in this area for sevral years as a qualified electrician. I was appalled at some of the things I saw.

I've never heard that before. Most rooms only have one sensor on them. Normally window.

That's certainly not mentioned in their T&Cs, and wasn't the case when I used to work there.

If you go on to the PhoneWatch web site you can click a link to read the garda policy on the matter.

They also wont like you to know that when your alarm goes off it will not attempt to phone for help straight away!

Or that if you have told your insurance company that you have a monitored alarm so as to avail of a discount that your policy is null & void if you did not have your alarm armed when you were broken into! (Yes they can check to see)

Or that most PhoneWatch alarms have a dummy bellbox on the outside of the house (ie not a real one that gives better security).

Has anyone received confirmation of this change in writing? If not, then I don't believe that the policy has actually changed.

I have not heard about it myself, but if your alarm is going off and you know about it and ring the gardai telling them you will be there they will do their best to be there. That is my experience anyway.

Just because an alarm is connected to a monitoring station does not mean it is any good. Most monitored alarms are unable to contact monitoring stations once the phone line is cut, this is common knowlage and easy to do. There are units (with sim cards) that can protect against this but few people have these.

bushy...

fishdog wrote: »

I formed this opinion from working in this area for sevral years as a qualified electrician. I was appalled at some of the things I saw.

Refitting some years ago , came across mains run over alarm cable.

fishdog wrote: »

Or that most PhoneWatch alarms have a dummy bellbox on the outside of the house (ie not a real one that gives better security).

astrofool wrote: »

The garda will respond to two sensor's being tripped on an Eircom phonewatch system (e.g. window + pressure), but not if only one is tripped, we recently had to add a pressure sensor upstairs for this.

Nice to see Phonewatch are still fitting 0.5 of an alarm per house.

fishdog

Here are some things I see alot of that comprimise security:

Alarm panel (white box about the size of an A4 page) installed just inside the front door ie easy for the intruder to find and destroy before it has attempted to dial out for assistance.

Upstairs of house having no sensors at all.

Unprotected indows/doors downstairs.

Only motion detectors protecting vunrable areas. This means that when you are in the house you have to turn off this protection to have the alarm on! Most burgleries happen when you are in the house!

Phone line easy to cut. This means all your money spent on monitoring has been wasted!

Outside bellbox is does not work or is a fake. This means that the only noise made by the alarm is inside the house, due to double glazing it often can not be heard from outside! This is the way one of Irelands best selling alarms is normally installed.

The alarm is connected to the mains by someone that is not a qualified electrician making you electrical completion certificate void!

fishdog

Nice to see Phonewatch are still fitting 0.5 of an alarm per house.

They often use outside contractors so standards and prices vary alot.

traceybere

when they respond do they just do a walk around the house and check there is no obvious signs of a broken entry???

fishdog

when they respond do they just do a walk around the house and check there is no obvious signs of a broken entry???

They will not even turn up if a key holder can not be present.
If the keyholder agrees to turn up and meet them they will have a look around the house (if they have permission to).

Turner

If Eircom phonewatch or Top scurity or whoever phone the Gardai and inform them of an alarm activation the gardai have to turn up and give a result of their call back to garda control.

Depending on the amount of calls the local garda units have in their queue it might take from 5 minutes up to five hours for the gardai to arrive.

If its a panic alarm or confirmed alarm activation (multiple sensors) local garda units will respond immediately (with lights+sirens) and also SDU or armed units are informed which will make their way along with local uniformed gardai to the scene within minutes.

Same a a bank or business premises pressing their panic alarm. They get an immediate response and all other calls are put on hold.

fishdog

If Eircom phonewatch or Top scurity or whoever phone the Gardai and inform them of an alarm activation the gardai have to turn up and give a result of their call back to garda control.

That statement is sometimes true!

This is because acording to " An Garda Siocahana Policy On Intruder Alarms"

"....a garda response will only be afforded to intruder alarms activations, when a keyholder has been notified and has given an estimated time of arrival on the premises."

In other words, if a key holder can not be present the gardai will not turn up. I did ask them this and they comfirmed it.

Turner

fishdog wrote: »

That statement is sometimes true!

This is because acording to " An Garda Siocahana Policy On Intruder Alarms"

"....a garda response will only be afforded to intruder alarms activations, when a keyholder has been notified and has given an estimated time of arrival on the premises."

In other words, if a key holder can not be present the gardai will not turn up. I did ask them this and they comfirmed it.

Trust me i know.

That might be their general policy but if a patrol car gets a call of a confirmed intruder alarm or panic alarm they treat it with urgency.

And sure when people see the unmarked car (armed with uzi's and handguns speeding with or without blue lights on) and also the marked car travellnig at high speed what do they say??

their chips must be getting cold, or dunkin doughnuts must be running low :rolleyes:

Id love those people to actually get a garda scanner and actually listen to the calls every garda car in every district actually get every few minutes.

Its not their fault they are under resourced and might have 15 or so calls in a queue and have to treat them in priority.

fishdog

Its not their fault they are under resourced and might have 15 or so calls in a queue and have to treat them in priority.

I know, I have alot of respect for them. However as they pointed out to me, if they cant get into a premises why would they turn up? . Intuders tend not going to spend alot of time in a permises with an alarm going off, so if the gardai are not there pronto it is often not much good.

That might be their general policy but if a patrol car gets a call of a confirmed intruder alarm or panic alarm they treat it with urgency.

Bear in mind, they can be very busy so an alarm going off and no arrangement made with the keyholder will slide down their list if they are under pressure. Cant blame them really.

You are correct about the panic alarm, they will turn up asap for that.

Id love those people to actually get a garda scanner and actually listen to the calls every garda car in every district actually get every few minutes.

I did that once or twice, great entertainment:D:D