nothing we don't know already, but......

galwaytt

I thought block exemption was supposed to be helping us...????

So, I don't care whether you're pro or con, but I think we need to say NO to the next EU vote, irrespective of the subject - nobody here is listening. Time to do a Frenchie on it and wake our guys up......

Ireland 29% higher car prices than EU average...

Biro

It'll be a guaranteed NO vote from me anyway.

cantdecide

I've asked this before but


how many of those counties have our rates of road tax and fuel duties also etc etc - I think we have to be the highest paying country for motoring due to taxation by a mile?? We get hit badly on every front...

TheBigLebowski

I don't have a clue what the next referendum is about but I will definitely be voting against solely because of the fact that I have to pay an illegal import duty on my car.

Cionád

I think the next one is on the Treaty of Lisbon (kinda a watered down EU constitution). We;re the only country to hold a referendum on the matter so we have the power. I'll most likely be voting yes however. :-P

At least our fuel prices are quite low compared to other western european nations, except diesel, grrr

Gandalf23

Its a disgrace that block exemption means nothing in this rip off country.

I will definately be voting NO in the next EU vote because of this and many other issues. This current Government (including the Greens) are a bunch of lying, currupt, incompetent, arrogant, out of touch, smug, two faced ****. I have always voted FF and Green but never ever ever ever again.

L1011

cantdecide wrote: »

I've asked this before but


how many of those counties have our rates of ... fuel duties.

Very few - we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU. The accession states are a few cent cheaper to a few cent dearer but most of the old EU is up to 35 cent a litre dearer than here.

cornbb

I'm not aware of how the ratification of the Lisbon treaty could make things even worse for Irish motorists, could someone sum it up for me? I'm not being a smartarse or anything, I just don't know...

ballooba

I think the OP is suggesting a No Vote purely in protest.

Cionád

cornbb wrote: »

I'm not aware of how the ratification of the Lisbon treaty could make things even worse for Irish motorists, could someone sum it up for me? I'm not being a smartarse or anything, I just don't know...

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

cornbb

While the government's numerous f*ckups annoy me as much as the next man I think a No vote would harm Ireland and Europe more than it would damage the government. There are plenty other ways to protest these issues, e.g. at a general election. I don't think the "vote no just to piss off the government" attitude makes any sense tbh. But each to his own. I'll be voting Yes anyway.

E92

What the OP forgot to mention is that it is because of VRT that Irish car prices are 29% dearer on average. Nothing else.

Block Exemption is nothing to do with this, it has made cars more expensive because the price of cars before VRT here was always a lot lower than it was in mainland europe.

Block Exemption means that the price of cars will be the same before tax no more, no less give or take a few percent(they are allowed charge a higher pre tax price here because we are RHD).

When the new VRT rates come in, the price of many cars should drop a lot, like a lot of 1,3,5 and 6 series BMWs, most diesels, some petrols, especially superminis like the Yaris etc, and the price of others should go up like 1.4 Focuses, Golfs etc, petrol family cars with 1.6 and 1.8 litre engines like Avensis, Mondeo etc, all luxury cars, most executive cars, large 4X4's, most large MPV's performance and sports cars etc.


I have no sympathy for all those people who voted for Feel and Fail or the Greens and are now moaning about it. You obviously "forgot":rolleyes: what happened 5 years ago, when you put them in that time as well. And you would put them in again in the morning if there was an election and all of a sudden moan again about them.

You get the Government you deserve. You must live with the consequences of your decision. No good moaning about it now.

The only way to get rid of them is not to say no to this treaty but to say a big fat NO at the local and European elections in 2009 and more importantly say no when the next general election comes in 2012.

cantdecide

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

Lowering income tax by a couple of poxy blips and having it subsidised by the motorists only creates a falsehood. "Government lowers income tax" is a great headline but the sub heading should read "by victimising car owners". Can't we just have straight forward taxation???

The screw is tighly on all of us but loosening it for diesels etc doesn't negate the fact thta becasue of taxation, we get f*ck all value for money.

E92

cantdecide wrote: »

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

Lowering income tax by a couple of poxy blips and having it subsidised by the motorists only creates a falsehood. "Government lowers income tax" is a great headline but the sub heading should read "by victimising car owners". Can't we just have straight forward taxation???

The screw is tighly on all of us but loosening it for diesels etc doesn't negate the fact thta becasue of taxation, we get f*ck all value for money.

This is what I can never understand. People whinge and moan about them and then convienently "forget":rolleyes: about all the bad things FF have done and put them back in power at every general election. Its actions like this that let them think that they can get away with murder and if everyone does what you do is it any wonder they are like a law into their own hands? There is no incentive for them to do things any better if thats the type of attitude that exists with the public at large. There are no standards in politics because the Irish people have no standards.
Nothing will ever change with attitudes like this.


As Honda once said for a marketing campaign, "Hate something, Change Something", if you don't like the way things are done DON'T vote for them, I mean how hard can it be? Voting for them is saying well lads yer're doing a great job sure carry on the way ye are cause ye're so bloody fantastic.

Biro

cornbb wrote: »

While the government's numerous f*ckups annoy me as much as the next man I think a No vote would harm Ireland and Europe more than it would damage the government. There are plenty other ways to protest these issues, e.g. at a general election. I don't think the "vote no just to piss off the government" attitude makes any sense tbh. But each to his own. I'll be voting Yes anyway.

I agree with you alright, that voting to piss off the government isn't the best attitude, but I'm voting No cause I want my vote to count in my country for as long as I live. I'm not in favour of selling out to Europe.
So from my point of view, I'm quite happy at the idea that people will be voting against the treaty out of spite. It might be the wrong attitude, but it's the right result in the end!

De Hipster

cantdecide wrote: »

I think I would vote FF in again

Seriously, did you read what you were posting?! You have just validified every shafting FF ever gave you as a citizen, a motorist & future FF voter, may they shaft you & all who vote for them for generations to come...with that thinking you thoroughally deserve it!

The only problem is the likes of myself who rationally refuse to vote for these corrupt, theiving scum get shafted with you & because of you.

E92

Biro wrote: »

I agree with you alright, that voting to piss off the government isn't the best attitude, but I'm voting No cause I want my vote to count in my country for as long as I live. I'm not in favour of selling out to Europe.
So from my point of view, I'm quite happy at the idea that people will be voting against the treaty out of spite. It might be the wrong attitude, but it's the right result in the end!

I'm voting no too because the rest of Europe's political leaders don't have the balls to put it to their people. We want cooperation with Europe, not the United States of Europe! The EU is coming up with idea after idea to make life harder for the motorist, be it wanting to force Germany to have blanket speed limits on the Autobahns, having the pedestrain safety legislation which has added as much as €5000 to the price of a car and added on several hundreds of kilos and made cars bigger and worse for the enviornment and then at the same time have the gall to tell the car manufactureres to get their emissions down to 120 g/km by 2012(there is an article in the Irish Times today in the Motioring Supplement about how they are going to enforce this and by God have they some nerve, I have absolutely no objection to them wanting to lower CO2 emissions btw, anything that makes cars cheaper to run is to be welcomed however what pisses me off is the hipocrasy of them on the one hand saying reduce emissions but on the other hand making cars put on a load of weight for the ped safety rules) and to top it all off they now have the open skies agreement so we can all fly to the US more often and more cheaply so thereby increasing pollution massively.

E92

cantdecide wrote: »

This is always the case. I think I would vote FF in again but there must be a way of effectively protesting against the victimisation of the Irish motorist.

There is. It's called vote for an opposition party like Fine Gael at the next General Election.

Seth Brundle

galwaytt wrote: »

So, I don't care whether you're pro or con, but I think we need to say NO to the next EU vote, irrespective of the subject - nobody here is listening. Time to do a Frenchie on it and wake our guys up......

Whats the point? Do you not remember the Nice Treaty referendum?

cantdecide wrote: »

how many of those counties have our rates of road tax and fuel duties also etc etc - I think we have to be the highest paying country for motoring due to taxation by a mile?? We get hit badly on every front...

Denmark has higher registration taxes.

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

I don't have a clue what the next referendum is about but I will definitely be voting against solely because of the fact that I have to pay an illegal import duty on my car.

unfair - yes
illegal - no

MYOB wrote: »

Very few - we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU. The accession states are a few cent cheaper to a few cent dearer but most of the old EU is up to 35 cent a litre dearer than here.

We seem to be about average - check out this...

galwaytt

...and, being the only state in the EU that gets to vote, imho we have a duty to speak for all those who can't/are being denied their democratic franchise.

The only effective way to do that is to vote NO.

cornbb

galwaytt wrote: »

...and, being the only state in the EU that gets to vote, imho we have a duty to speak for all those who can't/are being denied their democratic franchise.

The only effective way to do that is to vote NO.

...well in that case you would not be speaking up for those being denied the right to vote who would have voted Yes. You can only vote for yourself, it would be presumptuous to claim to be voting on behalf of the rest of Europe too.

L1011

kbannon wrote: »

We seem to be about average - check out this...

Ignore the accession countries. We're well below average for the EU15

Austria 1.171 - same
Belgium 1.433 - more
Finland 1.322 - more
Germany 1.372 - more
Greece 1.032 - less
Netherlands 1.470 - more
Italy 1.330 - more
Luxembourg 1.131 - barely less
Spain 1.057 - less
France 1.295 - more
Portugal 1.314 - more

Both of those "less" are a countries relatively a fair bit poorer than us, at that.

trellheim

vote for an opposition party like Fine Gael

which is even more Europhile than Fianna Fail :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Biro

E92 wrote: »

We want cooperation with Europe, not the United States of Europe!

I 100% agree with your post, in particular this sentence! Started out as the EEC, the European Economic Community, which was a kind of trade agreement, which was an excellent idea. However, the greed and power hunger got to them and then it changed to the "European Union" and it's been gathering momentum ever since then, with muppets like Bertie selling out countries.

jmayo

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Its a disgrace that block exemption means nothing in this rip off country.

I will definately be voting NO in the next EU vote because of this and many other issues. This current Government (including the Greens) are a bunch of lying, currupt, incompetent, arrogant, out of touch, smug, two faced ****. I have always voted FF and Green but never ever ever ever again.

At last you see the light
So you thought that the last government had done such a good job you voted them back in. :rolleyes:
You will find the current government is made up of approx 90% odd of the same individuals as the last government so when do you think they suddenly got arrogant, corrupt, incompetent, smug, two faced and became ****?

Most people that are now complaining voted for the above bunch of chancers.
It was very hard not to notice what had been going on for the last 10 odd years of the FF/whoever coaltion governments, but still the majority of people voted them back in.

You are almost as bad as the one that doesn't agree with them regarding motor policy, wants to protest somehow and then will vote for them the next time around.
I give up :eek:

At this stage if bertie baffoon asked me to vote for christmas I wouldn't

ninty9er

Cionád wrote: »

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

SF are the only party encouraging a no vote, mainly becase there's publicity to be had out of it....the treaty just cconsolidates the existing bureaucracy to make it more workable...voting no because of VRT will do nothing to further the VRT cause. In fact we're probably going to end up a lower motoring tax nation from next July than a good 30% of EU countries.

So while I haven't yet decided which way I'm going to vote...my decision won't be based on any domestic issues as that would be plain stupid and stooping to the French level of intelligence!!

meathstevie

Folks, who's your best guarantee against 1980's style inflation and interest ? The EU or the gang of incompetents bar a handfull of exceptions who've proven their inability from independence till now ? The new treaty is not much more than consolidating what's there and providing a framework for deeper cooperation between member states if they want to.

junkyard

If enough of us got together we could buy a piece of Africa and set up our own country, I'm sure there's a nice Nigerian chap somewhere that would sell us a bit of land there. Just think of it, no taxes, speed limits, rain or even political corruption, sheer bliss if you ask me.:D

meathstevie

That's an idea junkyard, get another 3 lads and we all pitch in a tenner. That must be a fair offer Mugabe can't decline for us to purchase Zimbabwe...

junkyard

Cionád wrote: »

I think they will vote no as a protest to the current government, "irrespective of the subject"

The current government don't give a f*ck about anything only looking after themselves, they have their pensions and perks now anyway and are laughing all the way to the bank. They lied their way into power as usual and their Muppet supporters came out in force to vote them in. It just goes to show that the majority support corruption, lies and dishonest practices in this country. Politics in this country and like most others, stinks, in my view they are THE most despicable people on the planet. It's like the old saying, " the rat race is over, the rats won", and in this case it's very true, no disrespect to rats to put them in the same league as politicians I might add.

Seth Brundle

MYOB wrote: »

Ignore the accession countries. We're well below average for the EU15

Austria 1.171 - same
Belgium 1.433 - more
Finland 1.322 - more
Germany 1.372 - more
Greece 1.032 - less
Netherlands 1.470 - more
Italy 1.330 - more
Luxembourg 1.131 - barely less
Spain 1.057 - less
France 1.295 - more
Portugal 1.314 - more

Both of those "less" are a countries relatively a fair bit poorer than us, at that.

I see your point but I still disagree that we are much cheaper than
Your original point was that "we have extremely cheap fuel compared to most of the EU". I disagreed and pointed out that seemed to be about average (I never said above or below). I didn't disagree wiht your point about the older states, etc.
However of the 11 countries you list (and Ireland) the average is 1.259. Ireland is the first country below average by 6.79cent and three countries are within the same amount above average.
Throw in countries not listed such as Denmark, the UK, Holland, UK (I know NI is listed) and all the accession states which are part of the EU and the average would undoubtedly drop.