N18 - Limerick Tunnel & South Ring Road Phase II

phog

Carawaystick wrote: »

I notice in the picture of the interior of the tunnel, there's no dip in the kerb to either the emergency phone or the emergency door, preventing wheelchair users escaping unassisted. There's the same issue in the M50 tunnel but the N25 tunnel has dips in the kerbs for the emergency doors.

Good point, hadn't noticed it but now that you have raised the issue I don't recall seeing any dip on the pathway, poor planning there.

Quackster

Tragedy wrote: »

Because the N20 is the better route to Tralee and it would be quite confusing to sign two junctions right after the other for Tralee?

The M20 may or may not be the better route depending where in or around Tralee and the time of the day or night you're heading. I understood that there was some sort of convention for signing 'N' routes where the major end destination should be posted on all signs.

To avoid confusion, it could always appear as Tralee (via Listowel) or some such.

Zoney

Tragedy wrote: »

Because the N20 is the better route to Tralee and it would be quite confusing to sign two junctions right after the other for Tralee?

Some signs in Limerick used to sign the N69 destination as "Tralee (Coast Road)" or somesuch - I think there was a sign approaching the Raheen roundabout with this before the work on the R526 (old N20) through Dooradoyle/Raheen.

Signing as Listowel is sensible IMO.

rainbowdash

130Kph wrote: »

Looking at those dramatic photos from sonyair I'm reminded of the fire in the
Austrian funicular in 2001. In that fire which was 600m into a 3,200m tunnel,

155 people were killed, mostly because they were trapped. however 18 survived by running away from the fire downhill. Anyone who escaped and ran away uphill was killed :eek: Lesson - use your logic in an accident situation.

Having said that, multiple vehicle pile-ups are rare outside of fog in
ireland (& UK , Europe). The Dublin port tunnel is more risky though - due to
its length. That is why everyone should try to obey the 80kph speed limit.

My tuppence worth is that the SRR II will open on 16 July - for the reason
they don't need a month to train / safety preparation.

Everybody will die in Limerick so because its uphill both ways!

out da lough

phog wrote: »

Good point, hadn't noticed it but now that you have raised the issue I don't recall seeing any dip on the pathway, poor planning there.

Probably because the N25 tunnel is in Cork.

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

pajoguy

Also no use of tactile paving at any crossings and end of cycle lanes. There appears to be tactile used near the roundabout at finnegans on the other scheme. strange.

Amtmann

Do we know yet what the toll rates will be?

KevR

130Kph wrote: »

Looking at those dramatic photos from sonyair I'm reminded of the fire in the
Austrian funicular in 2001. In that fire which was 600m into a 3,200m tunnel,

155 people were killed, mostly because they were trapped. however 18 survived by running away from the fire downhill. Anyone who escaped and ran away uphill was killed :eek: Lesson - use your logic in an accident situation.

Having said that, multiple vehicle pile-ups are rare outside of fog in
ireland (& UK , Europe). The Dublin port tunnel is more risky though - due to
its length. That is why everyone should try to obey the 80kph speed limit.

My tuppence worth is that the SRR II will open on 16 July - for the reason
they don't need a month to train / safety preparation.

While running downhill will get you away from the fire, it might not be so easy to escape the smoke.

King's Cross Underground Station fire in 1987:

Wikipedia wrote:

Many people in the ticket hall believed that the fire was small and thus not an immediate hazard: indeed, an evacuation route from the tunnels below was arranged through a parallel escalator tunnel to the ticket hall above the burning escalator. Some argue that the station below the fire did not need to be evacuated because of a belief that "fires rarely burn downwards", citing that there was no fire damage below the starting point of the fire.
Another consideration is ventilation; a fire being above does not mean that smoke and other products of incomplete combustion, including carbon monoxide, will not spread downwards. Alterations to normal ventilation flows are particularly common in underground environments, including subway systems.

Nobody died from going downwards in the King's Cross fire but it could happen if you go downwards and get trapped.

Tech3

Furet wrote: »

Do we know yet what the toll rates will be?

1.80 for a car. There is a photo on the open day book which lists all the toll prices, I might scan it and upload it here.

CerebralCortex

They've closed the outside temporary lane on the way into Limerick. Baffled as to why they narrowed it down to 1 lane there's loads of room the mustn't be expecting Limerick city center to grow.

Mc Love

They are marking the road i think

CerebralCortex

Mc Love wrote: »

They are marking the road i think

No it's clearly one lane, outside yellow line and all.

phog

CerebralCortex wrote: »

They've closed the outside temporary lane on the way into Limerick. Baffled as to why they narrowed it down to 1 lane there's loads of room the mustn't be expecting Limerick city center to grow.

On which road, direction, location are you talking about?

CerebralCortex

phog wrote: »

On which road, direction, location are you talking about?

Road: N18
Direction: into Limerick from Clare.
Location: Radisson/Cratloe roundabout/tunnel access thingy.

ClutchIt

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Road: N18
Direction: into Limerick from Clare.
Location: Radisson/Cratloe roundabout/tunnel access thingy.

It's true, it will be one lane permanatly now. 18 months of traffic disruption just to go backwards to a time before the Shannon dual carraigway. F**k this. I live out the east side of the city (Castletroy) no one will be taking this tunnel on the way there from Shannon.

runway16

Yeah, but there obviously isnt going to be as much traffic using it after the tunnel opens! And I for one will be using the tunnel to get from that side of limerick to Cratloe. It may not be convenient for you, it will be convenient for many others.

The tunnel is for longer distance traffic anyway, which makes up a major proportion of what is currently going through Limerick city anyway.

CerebralCortex

runway16 wrote: »

Yeah, but there obviously isnt going to be as much traffic using it after the tunnel opens! And I for one will be using the tunnel to get from that side of limerick to Cratloe. It may not be convenient for you, it will be convenient for many others.

The tunnel is for longer distance traffic anyway, which makes up a major proportion of what is currently going through Limerick city anyway.

True I used to see it that way but how much more difficult would it have been to leave in two lanes?

runway16

Why do you need two if there will be less traffic? It's not like it would be hard to add another there if they really really need to anyway.

I think people underestimate how the tunnel is going to alter traffic flows in Limerick. It will really turn it on its head. How much of what comes in from the N18 goes to Limerick centre anyway? Very little in my experience. Most of it is Raheen bound or Castletroy bound as far as I can see. "Inner" Castletroy will most likely use the less congested City Centre routes, but the outer areas and all Dublin Bound traffic will without a doubt use the tunnel. There's no way I would stop at all those lights through town just to avoid a 1.80 toll. Its just too easy to stay "on the motorway"

Mc Love

If you live in Castletroy it would be much easier i would have thought to go to finnegans and join the motorway to get to shannon than going through the city. Its certainly the way I would use

CerebralCortex

I agree with the above two statements, but there can be a case made that the more options the better.

Zoney

runway16 wrote: »

Why do you need two if there will be less traffic? It's not like it would be hard to add another there if they really really need to anyway.

I think people underestimate how the tunnel is going to alter traffic flows in Limerick. It will really turn it on its head.

I think in fact people overestimate the effect of the tunnel. Most rush hour traffic will still be going inside the ring road.

It seems like a simple exercise in trying to force people to pay a toll and jam up the Dock Road rather than use the Ennis Road as they would be better doing.

I think the Dock Road is very likely to be worse when everything is complete.

Mc Love

Zoney wrote: »

I think the Dock Road is very likely to be worse when everything is complete.

Is that because people are cheap and wont pay the 1.80?

runway16

Zoney wrote: »

I think in fact people overestimate the effect of the tunnel. Most rush hour traffic will still be going inside the ring road.

It seems like a simple exercise in trying to force people to pay a toll and jam up the Dock Road rather than use the Ennis Road as they would be better doing.

I think the Dock Road is very likely to be worse when everything is complete.

Thats a very City centric way of looking at it. Numerous traffic studies have concluded that much of Limerick's city centre traffic isnt city bound. The idea of the tunnel is to take whatever is inside that doesnt need to be there outside. If im going from Cork to Galway, I dont need to be in Limerick City centre.

This wasnt meant for rush hour city traffic at all - it is meant for that large percentage of through traffic. It is just a convenient option for cross city journeys if you wish to take the option - which of course you dont have to.

Limerick has been crying out for this for years - since before the Shannon (new) bridge opened. Yet now we have the solution - and people are still upset.

CerebralCortex

runway16 wrote: »

....and people are still upset.

Yes that they took away two lanes which makes no sense whatsoever, when they could have designed it to be two lanes (also for the fact that the tunnel is restricted height).

Zoney

Mc Love wrote: »

Is that because people are cheap and wont pay the 1.80?

No, amongst other things it will be due to the loss of the city access at Rosbrien.

Also for regular commuters, spending an extra €72 per month (approx) is not necessarily a negligable cost.

timmaii

Does anyone know if having an eToll tag will reduce the price like on the M50? It says on the tunnel website that these will be available "in the next few weeks".

Stark

Doubt it. The M50 is the only toll in the country where you get a discount for having a tag.

danielmcinerney

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Yes that they took away two lanes which makes no sense whatsoever, when they could have designed it to be two lanes (also for the fact that the tunnel is restricted height).

id agree, that exit will be gridlocked during rush hour. when you think about, for city bound traffic and people going to places like caherdavin, north circular road, corbally to name a few - the tunnel is no use to them...

knipex

timmaii wrote: »

Does anyone know if having an eToll tag will reduce the price like on the M50? It says on the tunnel website that these will be available "in the next few weeks".

Nope

no toll other than the M50 gives a discount. Depending on tag and payment type you can actually pay 10% extra....

thesimpsons

anyone see the new signs at the tunnel entrances - clearway, no pedestrians, no horse & carts, etc, ?

I can see American tourists seeing them and thinking we are still driving round in these the whole time. though I'm sure a little sign isn't going to stop the sulkies cantering through if they feel like it.