N18 - Limerick Tunnel & South Ring Road Phase II

mysterious

Limerick city centre and the bridges will have some relief once this opens. OConnell street will finally be pedestrianised. The other streets are looking fantastic. I would like lots of trees.

They have also started the Inner orbital too!

Geogregor

mysterious wrote: »

They have also started the Inner orbital too!

Where I can find more info about that?

Tech3

Chris those pictures are very impressive.

On the last one is the temporary dual carriageway to help ease traffic going into the city on the N18.

CerebralCortex

mysterious wrote: »

Why are they not motorwaying it? I don't get it...

Because some eejit gave planning permission for house on the dual carriageway!

Tech3

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Because some eejit gave planning permission for house on the dual carriageway!

Where on the dual carriageway?

Chris_533976

I guess hes talking about the N18 from Limerick to Shannon thats littered with private access.

I think that section was built by slapping a second carriageway next to the first, but I could be wrong. In any case, the curvature is nowhere near motorway standard and there really isnt a good alternate route.

mysterious

No I'm talking about the Tunnel...

Why keep this "N7"?

weehamster

Why keep this "N7"

As far as I can see it, it's something to do with local access (ie allowing vehicles that aren't allowed on a motorway, similar to the Athlone By-pass)

veryangryman

weehamster wrote: »

As far as I can see it, it's something to do with local access (ie allowing vehicles that aren't allowed on a motorway, similar to the Athlone By-pass)

Think so too.

Better to have it legal to let the L-gimps, Tractor-Gimps etc-gimps use this rather than clog the city.

Tunnel will do wonders for stab, which in fairness has had a nice facelift in recent years

rainbowdash

Can anybody explain to me why they are building a replica of the Chiswick flyover to traverse a stream at the tiein between the existing road and the start of the new section??

Seems like the last of the celtic tiger extravagance to me.

topper75

rainbowdash wrote: »

Can anybody explain to me why they are building a replica of the Chiswick flyover to traverse a stream at the tiein between the existing road and the start of the new section??

Seems like the last of the celtic tiger extravagance to me.

You mean Coonagh? The main course of the N18 dual c/way coming from Ennis will no longer go to Caherdavin/Limerick city, rather to the tunnel/bypass. The long flyover (á la Chiswick ) facilitates the outbound dual carriageway from Limerick City passing under it, which will merge into northbound traffic emerging from the tunnel further out beyond the flyover. I think! Someone in the know want to verify?

Zoney

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I guess hes talking about the N18 from Limerick to Shannon thats littered with private access.

I think that section was built by slapping a second carriageway next to the first, but I could be wrong. In any case, the curvature is nowhere near motorway standard and there really isnt a good alternate route.

You're right - and I remember as a kid the second lane being built. However, the DC between Limerick and Shannon was completed (in its original form) with the off-line Bunratty bypass opened in 1990 (which was a reasonable DC originally despite the cheap junction at Bunratty, but just in the last 5 years it has subsided wildly, becoming a roller-coaster - will likely need serious remedial work just like the DC east of Bunratty did).

I'm guessing however that the original single lane road between Limerick and Bunratty was not some ancient goat track - but a more recent upgrade/build due to the creation of Shannon. The new bridge (the first one) in Bunratty and highway-style streetlighting was likely around the same era as the original single lane road which is quite straight between Bunratty and Setrights, and although curvy for DC, is not country road style curves between Setrights and the city.

Anyways, getting off topic but further info would be of interest.

rainbowdash

topper75 wrote: »

You mean Coonagh? The main course of the N18 dual c/way coming from Ennis will no longer go to Caherdavin/Limerick city, rather to the tunnel/bypass. The long flyover (á la Chiswick ) facilitates the outbound dual carriageway from Limerick City passing under it, which will merge into northbound traffic emerging from the tunnel further out beyond the flyover. I think! Someone in the know want to verify?

But the existing outbound dualcarraigeway will become something of a local feeder road. Surely a simple single span underbridge would have done?

topper75

rainbowdash wrote: »

But the existing outbound dualcarraigeway will become something of a local feeder road. Surely a simple single span underbridge would have done?

Yeah - effectively a feeder road. With the single span you propose the road going towards the tunnel would have to do a sharp turn over the Limerick DC. The gentle m-way style curve requires a long flyover.

Sponge Bob

The N18 section around Shannon was built across a bog that is why. The ennis road bypass built at the same time in Limerick, south of the Coonagh Roundabout subsided badly too.

They all used a Dutch technique that proved unable for Irish bogs in the long term.

rainbowdash

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The N18 section around Shannon was built across a bog that is why. The ennis road bypass built at the same time in Limerick, south of the Coonagh Roundabout subsided badly too.

They all used a Dutch technique that proved unable for Irish bogs in the long term.

I am pretty sure it was built on the flood plains of the Shannon rather than a bog.

Chris_533976

We have awesome bogs in this country. They swallow machines and roads.

KevR

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They all used a Dutch technique that proved unable for Irish bogs in the long term.

Was that bog squashing?

Sponge Bob

Yep, the quincentennial bridge in Galway eastern approach was also done this way all the way to the Headford Road roundabout , it sort of bobbled a bit afterwards but held a driveable surface and camber.

ISTR it takes 2 years to squash the bog or maybe 3.

1. You put a sheet of thick plastic on the bog where you intend to build a road.

2. You drive pipes all the way down to the bedrock , they sit well proud of the plastic because.

3. Then you throw min 5m and probably realistically 10m of 3inch screen aggregate on it and leave the pipes sticking out of the top of this spoil heap.

The weight of the aggregate squashes the bog and the water can be forced up the pipes but cannot get back down because of the plastic on top.

After 2 years or maybe 3 the bog should be squashed.

I reckon the failures were caused by too little aggregate a squashing or for too short a time .....or both.

The Bunratty bypass and the Ennis Road bypass western section are two good examples of failed bog squashing efforts. I have not seen the technique used except during the 1980s so it must be abandoned. I think the new road east out of Letterkenny for 2km to the Galway road is another.

Limerick91

On Limerick Local Radio this morning, Tunnel to open in May

Tech3

It's on Limerick's live 95fm website

LIMERICK TUNNEL TO OPEN AHEAD OF SCHEDULE
14 January 2010

The Limerick Tunnel will be ready to open in May - four months ahead of schedule.

Originally due to open in September it's expected to take up to 40,000 vehicles off the streets of Limerick City.

The 675 metre tunnel under the River Shannon completes the final phase of the Southern Ring Road linking the Dublin Road to the Ennis Road.

Construction work on the 500 million euro river-crossing began in 2006 and is one of the largest engineering projects ever in Limerick.

Traffic Engineer with Limerick City Council is Rory McDermot

http://www.live95fm.ie/news/news-item/limerick-tunnel-to-open-ahead-of-schedule/389a255f-a191-4406-8bdc-8f66f8de521e

emfifty

tech2 wrote: »

It's on Limerick's live 95fm website



http://www.live95fm.ie/news/news-item/limerick-tunnel-to-open-ahead-of-schedule/389a255f-a191-4406-8bdc-8f66f8de521e

this is great news.......let's hope the 'bog of doom' will be open before may.:)

marmurr1916

The tunnel will be open in June according to the Irish Examiner:

PLANS are being finalised in Limerick for the biggest simulated emergency exercise every carried out in this country.

Hundreds of firefighters, gardaí, ambulance and medical personnel will take part in a planned accident in the new €660 million tunnel under the Shannon, which is now nearing completion.

The tunnel, which was due to open in September, is now likely to open by June, allowing up to 16,000 cars a day to by-pass Limerick city when travelling on the western corridor, linking Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Clare and the West.

However, before it opens it will have to undergo a huge emergency drill to comply with new legislation on tunnel safety.

The exercise will be the final part of the safety process which entails a "book of evidence" being completed showing that the tunnel ticks the rigorous safety rules.

Twenty firefighters from Limerick and Clare have travelled to Switzerland to undergo special training in tunnel rescues and have been accredited to give the same course to their colleagues.

The tunnel is a key element of Limerick’s new Southern Ring Road, a 9.7km four-lane highway. The tunnel runs for 900m, of which 675m will be under the Shannon.

The tunnel connects the southern side of the Shannon near the cement factory in Mungret to the northern riverside near the Radisson Hotel on the Ennis Road.

Tom King, managing director Direct Route, builders of the tunnel, said up to 200 people, including 120 fire-fighters, will take part in the simulated emergency which they hope to carry out in May.

He said: "There are huge logistics involved in getting 200 people from all the emergency services for the one exercise and we are working on May 21."

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/emergency-exercise-to-test-euro600m-tunnel-109699.html#ixzz0ci1n8ffP


Assuming the exercise goes well, and that no major problems are identified, it should be open within a couple of weeks after May 21st.

Toll seems reasonable too:

When open, the tunnel road will be tolled at rates equivalent to other toll routes, with a car rate of around €1.90 and lorries at approximately €4.50.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/emergency-exercise-to-test-euro600m-tunnel-109699.html#ixzz0ci28nOlt

Chris_533976

That will be one toll I sure as hell wont be dodging. It'll be 10 minutes to get from the N18 to the M20, it can take over an hour at the moment, depending on time of day.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

That will be one toll I sure as hell wont be dodging. It'll be 10 minutes to get from the N18 to the M20, it can take over an hour at the moment, depending on time of day.

I still think tolling a city tunnel is mad. I'd hate to see the money make those corrupt ccnuts richer.

kiwipower

So they will have the tunnel complete to the Radison? Is that possible in such a short time period? By the looks of the bridges and all at the tie in I was expecting it to take at least another 6months. Not that I m complaining!!!
Or are they going to open it onto the roundabout between the travel lodge and town?

zilog_jones

Are they not allowed to be ahead of schedule? It seems they planned all this properly, as opposed to the M7 to Portlaoise...

sonyair

lots of activity at the dock rd interchange, trying to get back on track as they are behind due to the bad weather which we had, asphalt going down on the entrance to sewage works from new roundabout, roads still have to be closed which they were to be last week.

lukejr

Excellent news that it'll open early. There was an article in the Limerick Independent today too quoting a May opening.

The toll is grand at under €2, it will avoid the traffic in Limerick city which at times would cost you more in petrol on an idle engine.

mysterious

lukejr wrote: »

Excellent news that it'll open early. There was an article in the Limerick Independent today too quoting a May opening.

The toll is grand at under €2, it will avoid the traffic in Limerick city which at times would cost you more in petrol on an idle engine.

I'd love to know who will still pay tols in two years:D

It will be well under 2Euro. I.80 at most for bypassing a city. There is no way a bypass of a city should be tolled in the first place.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

I'd love to know who will still pay tols in two years:D

It will be well under 2Euro. I.80 at most for bypassing a city. There is no way a bypass of a city should be tolled in the first place.

Care to explain why?

Tunnel was built at enormous cost and this needs to be recouped. And like it or not, in order to incentivise a tolling company to operate the road, it needs to be one that will provide a guaranteed revenue stream, ideally a city bypass. There are loads of examples in foreign countries.

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

There are loads of examples in foreign countries.

care to give a few?

On the autoroute system in France, city bypasses are free, while intercity trips are tolled. I've less exprerience in Spain, but the AP7 is free to use between the junctions immediately North and South of Girona but tolled for Longer distance traffic.

mysterious

Carawaystick wrote: »

care to give a few?

On the autoroute system in France, city bypasses are free, while intercity trips are tolled. I've less exprerience in Spain, but the AP7 is free to use between the junctions immediately North and South of Girona but tolled for Longer distance traffic.

Oh and French roads are a thousands times better, even the alternative A roads there are top notch.

What we have is a box type tunnel that is 600 metres long. They have these tunnels built in Third world cities.

Ireland is or was meant to be one of the richest in the world. They have hundreds of tunnels in Italy, Swizterland, France that are like 20 miles long.

AlanD

mysterious wrote: »

Ireland is or was meant to be one of the richest in the world.

This is irrelevant when the cost of doing business is just as high and as I'm sure you aware the apparent wealth this country had was based on credit. PPP builds will mean that instead of your tax money definitely paying for roads, you have a choice to pay or not pay. Not a bad scheme really.

I personally will pay the toll without issue. I'm really looking forward to the tunnel opening, whenever that happens.

Over time, people and businesses will build the cost of tolling in to their incomes, expenditure, etc. and so it will all balance out in the end.

unit 1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yep, the quincentennial bridge in Galway eastern approach was also done this way all the way to the Headford Road roundabout , it sort of bobbled a bit afterwards but held a driveable surface and camber.

ISTR it takes 2 years to squash the bog or maybe 3.

1. You put a sheet of thick plastic on the bog where you intend to build a road.

2. You drive pipes all the way down to the bedrock , they sit well proud of the plastic because.

3. Then you throw min 5m and probably realistically 10m of 3inch screen aggregate on it and leave the pipes sticking out of the top of this spoil heap.

The weight of the aggregate squashes the bog and the water can be forced up the pipes but cannot get back down because of the plastic on top.

After 2 years or maybe 3 the bog should be squashed.

I reckon the failures were caused by too little aggregate a squashing or for too short a time .....or both.

The Bunratty bypass and the Ennis Road bypass western section are two good examples of failed bog squashing efforts. I have not seen the technique used except during the 1980s so it must be abandoned. I think the new road east out of Letterkenny for 2km to the Galway road is another.

Think sections of Knock bypass might be similar method.

mysterious

So from the Actual N18 flyover to the N18 mainline how much are they realigning.

Are there many private accesses left from there to Bunratty. I know the right turns movements are gone from the N18 flyover.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

So from the Actual N18 flyover to the N18 mainline how much are they realigning.

Are there many private accesses left from there to Bunratty. I know the right turns movements are gone from the N18 flyover.

Yes, there will still be several. On this fantasy futures map I drew, I've marked the section in (as a potential motorway upgrade project) in blue.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

What we have is a box type tunnel that is 600 metres long. They have these tunnels built in Third world cities.

Wow... You inferiority complex much?

I'm sick of people complaining about having to pay road tolls, saying it's double-paying... despite absolutely EVERYTHING else being like that:

Public transport - Metro/tram/bus is built/setup using public funds, which come from the taxpayer. But then, every time you use it, you have to buy a ticket. You paid twice.
Airports - Airport is built out of public funds, or sometimes privately using a passenger charge which passengers pay. Then, when passengers fly, they have to buy a ticket. You paid twice.
Electricity - New power plant is built, out of public funds, and users are charged for the electricity. You pay twice.
Water - Water treatment facilities are built out of public funds, and users are (will be!) charged for the water. You pay twice.

However -
Roads - A motorway is built out of public money. People refuse to pay a user charge

This doesn't make any sense!

Anyone that refuses to pay city bypass tolls is quite frankly an idiot. I hope they have a lovely time sitting in traffic in Limerick city centre while everyone else whizzes by.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Yes, there will still be several. On this fantasy futures map I drew, I've marked the section in (as a potential motorway upgrade project) in blue.

That was interestnig how did you manage to create these lines directly onto google.?

marmurr1916

Carawaystick wrote: »

care to give a few?

M6 Toll to bypass the congested 'ordinary' M6 through the West Midlands - effectively a bypass of the greater Birmingham area.

Toll at the Dartford Crossing on the M25.

Carawaystick wrote: »

On the autoroute system in France, city bypasses are free, while intercity trips are tolled. I've less exprerience in Spain, but the AP7 is free to use between the junctions immediately North and South of Girona but tolled for Longer distance traffic.

Lots of countries in Europe charge people a special road tax to use their motorway networks, including of course city bypass motorways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignette_(road_tax)

mysterious

marmurr1916 wrote: »

M6 Toll to bypass the congested 'ordinary' M6 through the West Midlands - effectively a bypass of the greater Birmingham area.

Toll at the Dartford Crossing on the M25.



Lots of countries in Europe charge people a special road tax to use their motorway networks, including of course city bypass motorways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignette_(road_tax)

Actually your wrong on that statment.

The M6 is actually a congested bypass of Birmingham. There is other alternative roads to use.. The M6 toll is a relief road for commuters who are long distance on the M6. They don't have to pay the toll.

Anyway the M6 toll is a good bit away from Birmingham.

Special road tax, me eye, do you see how good all their roads are. In France they have state of the art motorways, soaring through mountains, valleys and dips. We have a very substandard road system and we are paying road tax and tolls. Most of our national and secondary roads are in a shocking state.

marmurr1916

mysterious wrote: »

The M6 toll is a relief road for commuters who are long distance on the M6. They don't have to pay the toll.

They do: http://www.m6toll.co.uk/pricing/default.asp?mainmenuid=4

http://www.m6toll.co.uk/pricing/Pricing_Table_1-1-09.pdf

Good idea with the variable pricing BTW.

mysterious wrote: »

Anyway the M6 toll is a good bit away from Birmingham.

Have you ever lived in this area of England? I have, and Birmingham is only part of the huge West Midlands conurbation (total population about 3.5 million).

Without the M6 Toll the massively congested 'ordinary' M6 would be gridlocked.

mysterious wrote: »

Special road tax, me eye

The fact is that some European countries have an extra road tax for people who want to drive on motorways.

If you don't pay this special road tax, you don't get to drive on the motorways, not without risking substantial fines anyway.

rubensni

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The fact is that some European countries have an extra road tax for people who want to drive on motorways.

If you don't pay this special road tax, you don't get to drive on the motorways, not without risking substantial fines anyway.

They're much lower than here. The Swiss tax, for example, is about €30 for the year. If you drive from Ennis to Dublin Airport once the motorways are completed, you'll have a toll on the Limerick Tunnel, two tolls on the M7 and the toll on the M50. That will be around €18 in tolls for one round trip to Dublin. :eek:

marmurr1916

rubensni wrote: »

They're much lower than here. The Swiss tax, for example, is about €30 for the year. If you drive from Ennis to Dublin Airport once the motorways are completed, you'll have a toll on the Limerick Tunnel, two tolls on the M7 and the toll on the M50. That will be around €18 in tolls for one round trip to Dublin. :eek:

Maybe so, but they still exist. Motorway tolls in France and Spain are much higher than they are in Ireland.

rubensni

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Maybe so, but they still exist. Motorway tolls in France and Spain are much higher than they are in Ireland.

Yeah, French and Spanish tolls are high (esp. in the summer). But to be fair though, we have to pay road tax on top of that as well. The French don't have any road tax. And though the Spanish do, it's to the local/town government so it's spent locally, and is a lot lower than here.

And as for VRT! :mad:

marmurr1916

rubensni wrote: »

They're much lower than here. The Swiss tax, for example, is about €30 for the year.

True enough for Switzerland. But the Slovenian motorway tax is €95 per year since 1 July 2009. That might sound low but if you compare average wages in Slovenia to average wages in Ireland it's the equivalent of a few hundred euro.

Slovenia
For the use of the Slovenian freeways and expressways use of toll stickers is obligatory for all vehicles with a permissible maximum weight of 3.5 tons as of July 1, 2008. The sticker costs were €35 and were valid for six months since the day of purchase, and €55 for a calendar year valid from December 1 of previous year to January 31 next year. Motorcyclists had to pay €17.50 or €27.50, respectively. Trucks use existing toll plazas.[4] Use of freeways and expressways without a valid and properly displayed sticker in a vehicle is a violation of the law and is subject to a fine of €300 or more. Due to pressure on the Slovenian government to introduce short-term toll stickers, the yearly sticker costs €95, the newly introduced monthly sticker €30, and a new weekly sticker €15, from July 1, 2009 onwards. Half-year stickers are no longer available for cars, and motorcyclists have the option of weekly (€7.50), 6 month (€25.00), and annual (€47.50) stickers

The motorway sticker used to cost nearly €120 per year in Hungary, again a substantial amount when local wages are taken into account:

Watch out in Hungary, the year's motorway pass costs a scorching 29.000 Forint (€118,40) ! A week's ticket costs 1.900 Forint (€7.75).

rubensni wrote: »

If you drive from Ennis to Dublin Airport once the motorways are completed, you'll have a toll on the Limerick Tunnel, two tolls on the M7 and the toll on the M50. That will be around €18 in tolls for one round trip to Dublin. :eek:

Motorway tolls in France are higher than in Ireland. A return trip from Paris to Lyon (456.7 km) will cost you €30.80 in tolls. The return trip from Ennis to Dublin Airport is slightly longer (about 470km).

If you went from Ennis to Dublin Airport using the M6 you'd avoid the Limerick Tunnel toll.

According to the AA, petrol prices in many Eastern European countries are quite high (over €1 per litre; €1.18 per litre in Slovakia).

Again, the initial figures sound low but if you compare them to average wages....

emfifty

all, can we get back on topic please........any pictures of n7 limerick tunnel scheme progress?

veryangryman

rubensni wrote: »

They're much lower than here. The Swiss tax, for example, is about €30 for the year. If you drive from Ennis to Dublin Airport once the motorways are completed, you'll have a toll on the Limerick Tunnel, two tolls on the M7 and the toll on the M50. That will be around €18 in tolls for one round trip to Dublin. :eek:

Who in the name of GOD drives their car to Dublin Airport from Ennis, with Shannon only up the road. Even if Shannon didnt cover your flight needs, you could fly it to get to Dublin and onward

I dont think there is 1 boardsie on the whole site who would consider such a journey, and TBH if there is, he deserves to pay double the current rate of tolls

BluntGuy

rubensni wrote: »

...two tolls on the M7...

Huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain there is only one.

Zoney

veryangryman:
Having to go through two airports is not something I would choose to do unless strictly necessary. It's bad enough going through one.

Flying is not much bother, it's the airports that are hell.