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Driver faces ban for lack of speeding.

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24

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    #32
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Lemming wrote: »
    Well, look at it this way, driving at 10mph whilst half-straddling the hard-shoulder is not really much different to someone who is pulling over onto the hard-shoulder and obviously slowing down to do so, or traffic in front of you that has slowed down to a halt at the rear-end of a long line of traffic on the motorway. If you aren't paying attention and/or are unable to judge that you are rapidly approaching an object and need to slow down, it's your fault. Not theirs.

    The onus and responsibility (which she also really needs to think about from her own perspective) is on you to drive defensively and safely.

    It is plain ovious that you haven't got the foggiest of how to drive/behave on a motorway (not that that surprises me in this country)

    You DO NOT "pull over" onto the hard shoulder on a motorway.

    If you ever have an emergency and need to stop on the motorway, you move out to the hard shoulder and only then you slow down ...and then you get the f*ck out of the car before somebody almost inevitably crashes into it.

    If you come up on a stationary queue of cars, it will be just that, a queue, al ot of them ...so you know what to expect.

    You do NOT expect a single car to be near stationary ...that's what makes it so dangerous


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    #33
    D_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    well theres a reason why no pedestrians, cyclists, L drivers and vehicles under 50cc etc are allowed on motorways. because they will not be able to keep up with the flow of traffic and are a danger to themselves or others and she was going slower than them all.

    also the hard shoulder is only to be used in emergencies and it is illegal to straddle it in the first place so she was breaking the law as well :rolleyes:.


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    #34
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    peasant wrote: »
    It is plain ovious that you haven't got the foggiest of how to drive/behave on a motorway (not that that surprises me in this country)

    You DO NOT "pull over" onto the hard shoulder on a motorway.

    If you ever have an emergency and need to stop on the motorway, you move out to the hard shoulder and only then you slow down ...and then you get the f*ck out of the car before somebody almost inevitably crashes into it.

    We do not know how busy the motorway was at the time. It doesn't say in the article. And I have seen people slow down whilst moving onto the hard-shoulder. They may not have been crawling whilst doing it but I have noticed drop in speed whilst moving over. It does happen. And you should never ever, ever assume what the other driver is going to do. Or not do.
    If you come up on a stationary queue of cars, it will be just that, a queue, al ot of them ...so you know what to expect.

    Again, I have actually also seen this happen on the M50. Quite possibly one of *THE* most bizarre accidents I have ever witnessed at that I might add. Nothing serious thankfully, but a car came up on a line of traffic and then swerved into the median barrier. And it happened at about 40kph.

    Once again, never assume what the guy in front is or is not going to do. You should be paying attention.
    You do NOT expect a single car to be near stationary ...that's what makes it so dangerous

    Is that what you say when you have an accident? Does it somehow undo whatever damage is caused? Once again. Never assume what the guy in front is or is not going to do. You should be paying attention.

    So many people have used words like "expect" with relation to driving on motorways And yet we keep having accidents on them. Small wonder ...

    Anyway, we've digressed well beyond the original point of this thread. My apologies to mike65.


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    #35
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Driving on the hard shoulder IS an offence.

    Mike.


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    #36
    D_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    its a penalty point offence to drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway.

    http://www.irishmotoring.ie/cms/publish/Penalty_points_section/Penalty_Points.php


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    #37
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Lemming wrote: »
    We do not know how busy the motorway was at the time. It doesn't say in the article

    It does not matter, how busy the motorway was or wasn't.


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    #38
    TomMc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭TomMc


    I'm pretty sure you would fail a driving test if 10mph was the most you could manage.


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    #39
    S.I.R
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭S.I.R


    tough luck , if you are scared to drive , don't.


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    #40
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    ned78 wrote: »
    Jesus. If you can't drive, then don't. It's akin to putting someone with a fear of heights and switches behing the yoke of a plane.

    I have vertigo...I don't climb in high open spaces....when we went to Delphi on a school trip I sat most of it out.

    If you're afraid to the point where you're a danger to others then don't do whatever in the first place

    Ban fully deserved!


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    #41
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    Zascar wrote: »
    It always amazes me how many drivers on Irish roads can get away with traveling on a single lane main roat at way under the speed limit, holding everyone up and not bothering to pull in so others can overtake safely, instead forcing them to make sometimes dangerous overtaking manovers. These people should be taken off the road until they learn how to drive properly and with confidence like the rest of us,

    I was driving along a back road this morning. The speed limit is 80kph. I was doing 60 at the most. Why? It was dark and raining, the road was wet and very bendy. Would I be a better driver if I had been going at 80 under those conditions?

    I accidently got onto the M50 today. Scared the bejaysus out of me. I took a wrong turn after making a detour to a shop and next thing I know I am headed for the motorway with nowhere to turn around. I was scared because I have only ever driven on dual carriageways before. I think I was doing about 60, I stayed well to the left so anyone who wanted to could overtake me. After what seemed like forever I was able to take the first exit off it and the sat nav guided me home. I had absolutely no idea where I was so without the sat nav I would have been screwed. Best €240 I ever spent.


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    #42
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I don't understand the debate here. The woman in question isn't competent to drive (the specific reason is irrelevant) thus shouldn't be on the road. Simple!


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    #43
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    mike65 wrote: »
    Driving on the hard shoulder IS an offence.

    Mike.

    clarify that so that some of the slow coaches amongst us don't think they can't pull a little left for you to pass!!


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    #44
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    If its like here which i presume it is you have signs on entry to the motor way clearly stating.

    No L drivers.
    No slow moving vehicles

    She is a pile up waiting to happen.
    Imagine coming up behind her in thick fog.
    If you cant drive you shouldnt be on the roads sorry for being so harsh but there is to many being killed on the roads to have any sympathy for someone that is lacking in confidance.
    There is a much better standard of public transport in england so if she is driving at ten mile an hour she would be better off getting it she would probably be quicker getting to where she wants to go.
    Surley she passed her test or she wouldnt be able to drive unacompanied.


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    #45
    phasers
    Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    women drivers..


    why is she driving if shes scared of it?

    get her off the roads


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    #46
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,991 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Lemming wrote: »
    But anyway, before I go off-tangent, whilst I agree she should not be on a motorway unsupervised given her current state of mind, she was straddling the hard-shoulder, not sitting square in a driving lane. If I saw someone doing that it would raise a flag immediately; car trouble, nervous driver, or drunk. And then adjust my driving to suit what is now a possibly unpredictable driver.

    So you'd argue if favour of drunk drivers not getting banned as well on the basis that the rest of us sober drivers should be able to react to them?
    Lemming wrote:
    By all means, remove her from motorways until she's had professorial help to address the problem, but howling for immediate banning really doesn't solve anything. Unless of course you are that concerned about getting one car-space up in traffic tomorrow morning ....

    If she had she been showing due consideration to other road users, there would be no need to remove her from motorways and get her help, she would have voluntarily abstained from motorway driving. Even if she was a competent driver on non-motorway roads, which I sincerely doubt, there still needs to be repercussions for her lack of consideration.


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    #47
    Toon--soldier
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Toon--soldier


    Lemming wrote: »
    This ^^ is the exact stereotype I would expect to associate with the lame ass "they made me do it" mantra.

    What if I don't drive a micra? Or a BMW? Or a Jeep? Or an M1 Abhrams MBT? (which I'd quite enjoy just to drive it over your car and wipe whatever smug grin is on your face off it).

    An overly slow driver is an overly slow driver regardless of what they're driving. I've seen plenty of all sorts on the roads.


    the top speed of a M1 abram is 45mph so its too slow to go on a motorway

    and how anyone was supposed to read that sign when there going past her at 70mph

    maybe she just its compotent to drive, it shouldnt be assumed that everyone has the abillity to drive properly


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    #48
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    clarify that so that some of the slow coaches amongst us don't think they can't pull a little left for you to pass!!

    ninty9er (and everyone else) driving on a motorway hard shoulder is an offence, on a single carraigway its legal if potentially hazardous.

    Mike.


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    #49
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,993 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    She broke the law as there is a minimum speed limit on motorways.
    The law states that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at a specific speed on a motorway. It does not mean that the said vehicle must travel at that speed or in excess of that speed.
    Zascar wrote: »
    It always amazes me how many drivers on Irish roads can get away with traveling on a single lane main roat at way under the speed limit, holding everyone up and not bothering to pull in so others can overtake safely, instead forcing them to make sometimes dangerous overtaking manovers
    It's a speed limit not a target speed. Pulling into the hard shoulder is frowned upon in advanced driving circles ;) and pulling into the hard shoulder of a motorway is illegal.

    If a driver feels the need to make dangerous overtaking manoeuvres then that driver needs to review their own driving skills as they are not capable of adjusting their skills to the prevalant road conditions.


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    #50
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »

    It's a speed limit not a target speed. .

    Do your test at 10mph and see do you pass so.


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    #51
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,993 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Do your test at 10mph and see do you pass so.
    Pull into the hard shoulder and 'see do you pass so'!


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    #52
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Do your test at 10mph and see do you pass so.

    Do your test keeping at 40kph and see if you pass. I cant believe people are actually defending slow incompetent drivers in here.. Driving under the speed limit (when there is no need to do so) is imo as dangerous if not more so that driving over it.. Any half decent driver knows that..

    One of the first things any driving instructor will emphasize is progress..


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    #53
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,993 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Orange69 wrote: »
    I cant believe people are actually defending slow incompetent drivers in here
    No one is defending incompetent drivers. Many fast drivers are very incompetent!


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    #54
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    No one is defending incompetent drivers. Many fast drivers are very incompetent!

    Slow driver = incompetent driver..


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    #55
    deceit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭deceit


    I got my license in england and over there it is an offense not to make reasonable progress. Which means that if the roads are clear on a 70mph road and it is safe to do so (ie straight long motorway) the minimum a vehicle that is capable of doing 70mph can do (other than ones stated that have to go below 70) is 60mph before cops can remove and fine the person for (possible penalty points but cant remmeber).
    In the uk you have dual carriageways that are bigger than motorways here. In your opinion lemming it would be safe for her to drive on these at 10mph? Most roads outside cities in the uk are 60/70 mph roads which are safe to do that speed constantly so on these you would be happy having her pottering along at 10mph and braking constantly just because doesnt have a motorway sign on it?


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    #56
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    mike65 wrote: »
    ninty9er (and everyone else) driving .....on a single carraigway its legal if potentially hazardous.Mike.
    No, it's not legal. You must drive on the road. A hard shoulder is not part of the road.

    You'd probably also be outside of insurance coverage and, if your car is hired, check the conditions.


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    #57
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,988 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    The law states that a vehicle must be capable of travelling at a specific speed on a motorway. It does not mean that the said vehicle must travel at that speed or in excess of that speed.

    Thats why we should have minimum speeds on motorways stop all the tractors driving on them;)
    It's a speed limit not a target speed. Pulling into the hard shoulder is frowned upon in advanced driving circles;) and pulling into the hard shoulder of a motorway is illegal.

    But in advanced driving you would be aware of other vehicles around you and shouldn't be causing an obstruciton:D
    If a driver feels the need to make dangerous overtaking manoeuvres then that driver needs to review their own driving skills as they are not capable of adjusting their skills to the prevalant road conditions.

    And you don't have to pull into the hard shoulder, you can move over to the left of the road so people can pass easier.


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    #58
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    Orange69 wrote: »
    Slow driver = incompetent driver..

    So if I'm driving past my local school at 3pm, there are loads of cars parked at the side of the road and the limit is 50kph, if I do 30kph- as there are going to be lots of kids about and one could run out in front of me so I slow down so I can stop quicker- I am incompetent?

    In my town the limit is 60kph going into the Main St, but the turn into the Main St is blind and there is often traffic piled up at the other side of the turn which I cannot see. There is also a bus stop and there are often people crossing the road at that point. I slow down to 30 as I come around that corner as I cannot see what is beyond it and I don't want to rear end or run over anyone at 60kph. Am I incompetent?


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    #59
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    LuckyStar wrote: »
    So if I'm driving past my local school at 3pm, there are loads of cars parked at the side of the road and the limit is 50kph, if I do 30kph- as there are going to be lots of kids about and one could run out in front of me so I slow down so I can stop quicker- I am incompetent?

    In my town the limit is 60kph going into the Main St, but the turn into the Main St is blind and there is often traffic piled up at the other side of the turn which I cannot see. There is also a bus stop and there are often people crossing the road at that point. I slow down to 30 as I come around that corner as I cannot see what is beyond it and I don't want to rear end or run over anyone at 60kph. Am I incompetent?
    Orange69 wrote: »
    Do your test keeping at 40kph and see if you pass. I cant believe people are actually defending slow incompetent drivers in here.. Driving under the speed limit (when there is no need to do so) is imo as dangerous if not more so that driving over it.. Any half decent driver knows that..

    One of the first things any driving instructor will emphasize is progress..

    :)


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    #60
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    So much uninformed opinion here.

    The law states that slow vehicles (under 50km/h) are not permitted on the motorway. Check the blue signs next time full license holders. Provisional drivers can see from one of the other seats.

    The legal position on speed is: You must progress at a speed and in a way that avoids interference with other motorway traffic.

    and

    You must not drive a type of vehicle that is restricted to a maximum vehicle speed limit of 80km/h or less in the traffic lane nearest the centre median of the motorway (the outside lane). An exception to this prohibition applies at any location where the speed limit is 80km/h or less.


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    #61
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Have to be careful Henry, this case is in the UK so where there is definitly no legal minimum speed, you can only get done for "driving without making safe progress" or something like that so peeps may be refering to UK rather than Ireland.

    Tomas_V
    No, it's not legal. You must drive on the road. A hard shoulder is not part of the road.

    You'd probably also be outside of insurance coverage and, if your car is hired, check the conditions.

    This was gone into more than once before on this board, you can be done for driving on a HS on a motorway. Using the HS on a single carriagway is legal for allowing traffic to pass.

    For the proof download this PDF file and go to page 60.
    If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby.

    Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways. See
    Section 11 for details.

    Mike.


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