Driver faces ban for lack of speeding.

Jumpy

LuckyStar wrote: »

So if I'm driving past my local school at 3pm, there are loads of cars parked at the side of the road and the limit is 50kph, if I do 30kph- as there are going to be lots of kids about and one could run out in front of me so I slow down so I can stop quicker- I am incompetent?

In my town the limit is 60kph going into the Main St, but the turn into the Main St is blind and there is often traffic piled up at the other side of the turn which I cannot see. There is also a bus stop and there are often people crossing the road at that point. I slow down to 30 as I come around that corner as I cannot see what is beyond it and I don't want to rear end or run over anyone at 60kph. Am I incompetent?

SCHTOP!

Zis argument is not ready yet!

Ze original post is about a motorway, not a normal road!
At Grolsch, we take time to read the entire thread, just like ze extra time we put into our beer.

unkel

What Mike65 said. On a non-motorway it is allowed to drive on the hard shoulder to let traffic pass. On a motorway:

Rules of the Road wrote:

You must not drive on any part of the motorway that is not a
carriageway; for example a hard shoulder, except in case of emergency.

BTW, the Rules of the Road can be found in the sticky too

Seth Brundle

Toon--soldier wrote: »

the top speed of a M1 abram is 45mph so its too slow to go on a motorway

If there is one 30mph would be the min motorway speed (50km/h here)

Toon--soldier wrote: »

and how anyone was supposed to read that sign when there going past her at 70mph

Are you referring to the blue motorway rules sign? If so, then you would not pass it at 70mph!

Del2005 wrote: »

Thats why we should have minimum speeds on motorways stop all the tractors driving on them;)

As was pointed out in a recent thread, tractors can use a motorway if they can meet the motorway rules.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Check the blue signs next time full license holders. Provisional drivers can see from one of the other seats.

L1011

Tomas_V wrote: »

No, it's not legal. You must drive on the road. A hard shoulder is not part of the road.

You'd probably also be outside of insurance coverage and, if your car is hired, check the conditions.

Driving in the hard shoulder of a single carraigeway road is (horrifically...) legal if someone is passing you. One of the worst motoring laws in this country...

Vikings

MYOB wrote: »

Driving in the hard shoulder of a single carraigeway road is (horrifically...) legal if someone is passing you. One of the worst motoring laws in this country...

Why is that?

I've done it the odd time on the way to and from Cork and find nothing wrong with it at all. You'd swear the hard shoulder was a mine field the way some people refuse to move in and let faster cars pass some of the time.

Seth Brundle

Vikings wrote: »

Why is that?

something (a vehicle, a child, an animal) can emerge suddenly onto the hard shoulder

L1011

Vikings wrote: »

Why is that?

I've done it the odd time on the way to and from Cork and find nothing wrong with it at all. You'd swear the hard shoulder was a mine field the way some people refuse to move in and let faster cars pass some of the time.

Because of the way everybody else in the country treats the hard shoulder - as a "speeding up" lane for turning out of houses, shops, etc (due to the lack of service lanes); and because of the extremely heightened risk of someone being stopped dead in said lane ahead. You're closer to the apex of any left hand curves in the road meaning you've less visibility ahead, and so on.

Its also not legal to drive in it in any other country I'm aware of.

Guy:Incognito

kbannon wrote: »

Are you referring to the blue motorway rules sign? If so, then you would not pass it at 70mph!

He was talking about the sign the woman put in her window to tell people she is crap driver.

MYOB wrote: »

Because of the way everybody else in the country treats the hard shoulder - as a "speeding up" lane for turning out of houses, shops, etc (due to the lack of service lanes); and because of the extremely heightened risk of someone being stopped dead in said lane ahead. You're closer to the apex of any left hand curves in the road meaning you've less visibility ahead, and so on.

Its also not legal to drive in it in any other country I'm aware of.

Nobody is suggesting doing it while going rund blnd bends or through junctions. If you have to pull in to let cars pass you'll often be te lead car and can see the lane ahead is clear. Either way, watching the road ahead will tell you the lane is clear anyway. Common snese goes a long way.

Vikings

I suppose, but then again it is down to each individual driver just like everything on the roads.

I know when I have moved into the hard shoulder to let someone past I treat it like an overtaking manoeuvre on my part, in and out as quick as possible. I would not consider moving in to let someone past me to be the same as driving in the hard shoulder. The word driving suggests you are constantly doing it which doesn't happen.

Out of interest, would you pull into the hard shoulder to let a faster car past? Just to clear things up I would only do this on say the N8 or similar roads and only when safe to do so, I wouln't be actively looking for a hard shoulder to go rallying about in

L1011

Vikings wrote: »

Out of interest, would you pull into the hard shoulder to let a faster car past? Just to clear things up I would only do this on say the N8 or similar roads and only when safe to do so, I wouln't be actively looking for a hard shoulder to go rallying about in

I take the extremely selfish view that whatever speed I'm doing is clearly good enough progress for everyone else

If I was in an actually slow vehicle and was clearly impeding traffic, I probably would. If I'm doing 100k and Billy Big Nuts behind me wants to go faster, he can sit there and stew until theres a proper overtaking location.

peasant

as for pulliing in to the hard shoulder to let others by, here's why I don't do it anymore:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53713481&postcount=22

cantdecide

ned78 wrote: »

If you can't drive, then don't

Haven't read all of previous posts but this is my feeling on it. Too many people take the I'm not michael schumacher, like attitude.

The fact is, contrary to popular belief, driving is not a right, it's a responsibility and privilege and if you are too meek to drive like your properly trained and educated driver (ie like those fogies in the hard shoulder doing 30), it's time to hang up those driving gloves.

This amounts to dangerous driving in my opinion, because flow is the most important aspect of safe driving in traffic.

AntiVirus

LuckyStar wrote: »

I accidently got onto the M50 today. Scared the bejaysus out of me. I took a wrong turn after making a detour to a shop and next thing I know I am headed for the motorway with nowhere to turn around. I was scared because I have only ever driven on dual carriageways before. I think I was doing about 60, I stayed well to the left so anyone who wanted to could overtake me. After what seemed like forever I was able to take the first exit off it and the sat nav guided me home. I had absolutely no idea where I was so without the sat nav I would have been screwed. Best €240 I ever spent.

You took a wrong turn with sat nav and sat nav is the best 240 euros you ever spent?

Tomas_V

On a non-motorway it is allowed to drive on the hard shoulder to let traffic pass.

The ROTR suggests pulling over, it does not say you can drive on the hard shoulder.

MYOB wrote: »

Driving in the hard shoulder of a single carraigeway road is (horrifically...) legal if someone is passing you. One of the worst motoring laws in this country...

Except that there is no such law. The law is that you drive on the road. The hard shoulder of a single carriageway is not part of the road.

It's just not an option for slow drivers to drive on the hard shoulder.

mike65

maybe you missed my post above.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54738608&postcount=61

Mike.

Tomas_V

mike65 wrote: »

maybe you missed my post above.

It confirms what I've said. You call pull over, but you cannot continue to drive on it.

BTW the ROTR is not useful as a legal reference.

L1011

Tomas_V wrote: »

It confirms what I've said. You call pull over, but you cannot continue to drive on it.

BTW the ROTR is not useful as a legal reference.

Does it specify stopping? Pulling over != stopping,

And if its not useful as a legal reference, find the statutes behind it to back up what you're saying - irishstatutebook.ie might be a good starting place. Because currently we've got the ROTR saying something you're claiming isn't true

Tomas_V

MYOB wrote: »

Does it specify stopping? Pulling over != stopping,

Pulling over !=driving.

And if its not useful as a legal reference, find the statutes behind it to back up what you're saying

OK:

Roads Act, 1993
"roadway" means that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles;

S.I. No. 181/1997 — Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997.
28. Traffic sign number RRM 025 shall—
(a) indicate the line of the edge of a roadway, other than a motorway, and
(b) consist of a broken yellow line along the edge of a roadway, consisting of segments not less than 100 millimetres and not more than 150 millimetres wide, approximately 2 metres long and approximately 2 metres apart.

S.I. No. 182/1997 — Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway.

L1011

Tomas_V wrote: »

Pulling over !=driving.

Elaborate. At no stage does it mention stopping your vehicle, and "pulling over" does not convey that meaning either. I can't find my copy of the 2007 ROTR here to see if they use it to mean stopping at any other point in the text, however.

As goes the statute you quouted - it specifically mentions "save where otherwise required", this would cover where other driving regulations allow you in there.

Tomas_V

MYOB wrote: »

this would cover where other driving regulations allow you in there.

Specifically, what other driving regulations? Quote one from the Statue Book?

The whole topic of driving on the hard shoulder was done to death in another thread (self-appointed 'advanced drivers' were nearly slitting their wrists in angst).Some great minds pored over the regulations and discovered, in effect, that it being 'legal' to drive on the hard shoulder is a modern myth.

mike65

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/penalty_points.html

Seamus Brennan in 2003

Dail discussion

Mike.

Tomas_V

I think its covered by this penalty point offence: Failure to drive on the left hand side of the road or Failure to comply with Traffic Lane Markings

Driving on the hard shoulder is not driving on the road.The left-hand edge of the road is indicated by the broken yellow line.

E92

Don't we have a minimum speed limit of 50 km/h on our Motorways?

Ah sure, people like this unfortunate woman who for whatever reason has a fear of Motorways would be the type of "role models" Uncle Gaybo would be boasting about, since he was appealing that we all fecking slow down (again)'for the honour of Christmas'recently.

Stark

Tomas_V wrote: »

I think its covered by this penalty point offence: Failure to drive on the left hand side of the road or Failure to comply with Traffic Lane Markings

Driving on the hard shoulder is not driving on the road.The left-hand edge of the road is indicated by the broken yellow line.

Hello cyclopath2001

The broken line meaning it's legal to cross the line (as opposed to a continuous yellow line like on a motorway).

Also, the requirement to drive on the left hand side of the road doesn't mean you're not allowed take up a position other than left when performing manoeuvres.

Tomas_V

Stark wrote: »

Hello cyclopath2001

That's the person who I quoted from the original thread on this topic.

Stark wrote: »

The broken line meaning it's legal to cross the line

To stop: yes. You're confusing a broken yellow line with a broken white line. There are specific rules for broken white lines.

The key fact you're missing is that you must drive on the roadway.

ballooba

The cop deserves a medal. This is highly dangerous. Motorways are designed to flow freely. The responsibility should not be on other drivers to react to this numpties poor driving. It's just as bad as reversing on a motorway in my opinion.

Tomas_V

ballooba wrote: »

The responsibility should not be on other drivers to react to this numpties poor driving.

Certainly, people who are grossly incapable of mingling efficiently with other traffic need to be controlled for the general good. But people do have mobility needs. Maybe another category of license is needed, suitable for the most of the needs of the mobility impaired or less aggressive (e.g. elderly) driver, that would allow them to use non-motorways roads?

Stark

There should be a way to revoke a full license and have someone go back to provisional/learner permit. It would have been the perfect solution for the woman in question. She could have taken lessons with an instructor until she got her confidence back and then regain her full license when she proved her competence.

cast_iron

Slightly off topic, but I read about a case the other day where an Irish judge banned a driver for 1 year for parking in a disabled parking bay.

LuckyStar

AntiVirus wrote: »

You took a wrong turn with sat nav and sat nav is the best 240 euros you ever spent?

I was turning into a shop that was off-route and made the wrong turn, I had not programmed this detour into the sat nav as I was driving at the time.