Hybrids - good idea or no?

howareyoudoin'

I'm thinking of buying a new car next year to replace my 8 year old, 150K, 1.4ltr, 5 door Nissan Almera. I fancy getting a hybrid, probably because I've fallen for the marketing eco-friendly hype more than anything else. Researching them, it looks like the only real choice I have (in the same range of size etc) is the Toyota Prius or the Honda Civic.

So:
(1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?
(2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?
(3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?
(4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?
(5) What sort of money am I likely to get for my own car? The guy who I get to service it tells me that the engine will easily do another 100K. The body is beginning to show a bit of wear though...interior squeaks and rattles, slowing automatic windows, one or two tiny signs of rust pitts in the the paintwork. Should I sell it privately or try to trade it?
(6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.

And finally
(7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal (I hate asking that one, but I really think that it's likely).

E92

howareyoudoin' wrote: »

I'm thinking of buying a new car next year to replace my 8 year old, 150K, 1.4ltr, 5 door Nissan Almera. I fancy getting a hybrid, probably because I've fallen for the marketing eco-friendly hype more than anything else. Researching them, it looks like the only real choice I have (in the same range of size etc) is the Toyota Prius or the Honda Civic.

So:
(1) Am I being an idiot falling for the eco-friendly hype?
(2) Is there much difference between the two performance-wise?
(3) Are there any hidden dangers/expenses in buying these seeing as they are relatively new technology e.g. service, maintenance & repairs: will I be forced to go back to the dealer every time due to a general lack of knowledge about these cars amongst independent mechanics?
(4) Seeing as the tecnology is relatively new, would I be better off to buy a brand new one, or is there any value to be had in buying a 1 or 2 year old one?
(5) What sort of money am I likely to get for my own car? The guy who I get to service it tells me that the engine will easily do another 100K. The body is beginning to show a bit of wear though...interior squeaks and rattles, slowing automatic windows, one or two tiny signs of rust pitts in the the paintwork. Should I sell it privately or try to trade it?
(6) Is there an optimum time in the year to change your car...start, middle, end, close to end of any of the 4 quarters, etc, etc.

And finally
(7) I'm female...should I send a male friend in to buy the car for me....will they automatically get a better deal (I hate asking that one, but I really think that it's likely).

1) Yes, there are diesels that match a hybrid for CO2, and lots of owners report that the Prius achieves at best 44 mpg. A flexi fuel car when running on ethanol can cut your emissions by up to 80%, a Hybrid car if it did what the mpg figures said it would would only reduce your emissions by 30%. A Ford Focus FFV when running on Ethanol would only pollute 23 g/km, compared to a Prius which pollutes 104 g/km. A Toyota Aygo pollutes 109 g/km CO2 and is not a Hybrid(a much smaller car though), a MINI Cooper pollutes 104 g/km CO2, the same as a Prius and one person reported getting over 85 mpg from one!

There will be soon a VW Polo Bluemotion on the way, that averages a believe it or not 72.4 mpg, and pollutes just 99 g/km. No Hybrid can match that! Diesels pollute more particulate matter and nitrous oxide than a Hybrid, but there are plenty of questions as to the environmental friendliness of the way hybrids are made(all those batteries etc are very bad for the environment) and they are a lot worse for pollution in the making and disposing of them compared to a standard car.

2) I haven't driven one, so I can't tell you, but the statistics suggest that they are no better nor worse than a petrol car of a similar engine size. They are all automatic though.
3) I don't know, I know Toyota give the powertrains an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty, so should anything go wrong, you should be OK. I would imagine that they are dearer to service than a normal car because they are a lot more complex than a standard car, but an authorised dealer would have no problems servicing one.

4) It is still early days and the technology is relatively unproven, but so far they seem to be OK for reliability, but diesel engines are generally more reliable than petrol engines(they are built using stronger materials etc)


5) I don't know for sure, but I would say around 2k at best! Nissans are poor for resale value, and not many people will want a car with 150,000 miles on the clock in the condition you are describing it!

6) New Hybrids will decrease in price after July, there are big changes being made to VRT, they are going to be doing it on emissions, and both the Civic and Prius are going to be in a higher VRT band after July(up from 11.2% and 12.5% respectively to 14%). The Government has however said that there will still be some sort of rebate for Hybrids and Flexi fuel models of up to €2,500 but they haven't said what determines this and what sort of rebate the cars you mention will get. I presume that they will get the €2.5k rebate, because they are greener(at least in theory) than most other cars on the road. If you get a new one after July either the Civic or the Toyota will cost €100 to tax, otherwise the old system remains. However, diesels should be going down by a lot too, and will most likely end up costing no more than their non hybrid petrol counterparts after July

7) You are better off bringing a male with you, no question about it, but someone who knows something about cars, because some dealers will run rings around you.

OP, a Prius costs the same a well equipped Avensis, you could have a 1.4 diesel Auris and that would cost you €23,350 and average a claimed 56 mpg, whereas a Prius would cost you €30,090 and average a claimed 66 mpg,so the question is, is it worth paying nearly 7 grand more for 10 mpg extra?

And the Auris diesel should drop in price by a good bit after July, since it's VRT will fall from 22.5% to 16% so it will only cost an extra €50 to tax over the Prius after July. Assuming that Toyota pass on the full VRT saving to the customer, an Auris diesel will cost €21,540 roughly after July, compared to the Prius which assuming that the Government gives it an extra €2,500 off will cost €28,115 roughly, so the gap between the 2 cars will be around €6,500 after July, so even then, is it worth paying that much extra for a 10 mpg improvement?

Honda don't even pass on the full VRT saving to the customer as it is, the Civic IMA should cost €28,050 but instead costs €28,795, so that in itself is almost a grand of a difference. It's price after July should be €27,215, but will Honda keep some of the difference for themselves?


Look at the sticky about VRT, it tells you how to find out what CO2 puts you in what VRT band, how to calculate prices after July etc.

howareyoudoin'

Thanks...that a really informative reply.

Just one more question: Aren't diesels reknowned for being sluggish or is that a hangover myth from years ago when I used to think that I knew something about cars and engines?

Owen

A lot of Diesels can now put out more power in horsepower, and torque than they're petrol equivilents. I was the person driving the MINI Cooper Diesel in E92's link above, and much as I didn't want to like a Diesel engine, it really grew on me. The MPG was incredible, the power was fantastic, and the look from taxi drivers, van drivers, and bus drivers when they heard the little Diesel lump from under the bonnet of a MINI was priceless.

The bottom line, and what E92 is trying to say, is that Hybrids are gaining a lot of popularity, for the right, and wrong reasons. For the right ones, because people are waking up to the fact that polluting cars aren't the way forward. For the wrong ones, because most Hybrids at the moment can be beaten by a good Diesel engine in terms of economy, performance, emmissions and end of life footprint (A hybrid will have lots of polluting batteries to be disposed of, along with the rest of the vehicle).

MINI Cooper Diesel Clubman FTW!

E92

howareyoudoin' wrote: »

Thanks...that a really informative reply.

Just one more question: Aren't diesels reknowned for being sluggish or is that a hangover myth from years ago when I used to think that I knew something about cars and engines?

Drive a new one and be prepared to have that idea knocked on the head! The old stereotype is just that... old. For the past 5-10 years there has been a huge change with diesel and virtually every diesel these days offers better real world performance than a similar size petrol. All the big Mercs and BMWs etc are diesel, only 10 years ago no one would have even dreamed of it! They're still noisier than a petrol when they are cold and at low speeds but get them up to speed and you wouldn't know what fuel was under the bonnet!

I wouldn't be bothered with the Auris by the way, a Focus or Astra or Mazda 3 or Honda Civic would all be much better choices than an Auris IMO(although the Civic isn't available as a diesel).

S.I.R

Hybrids are a good idea but they cost too much to fix and i'd rather keep a car going then put another one on the road ( more envoirmently friendly imo. )

colm_mcm

E92 wrote: »

A Ford Focus FFV when running on Ethanol would only pollute 23 g/km, .

Can you explain the 23 g/km figure please?

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Can you explain the 23 g/km figure please?

The idea is this:





So the alcohol part of the flexi fuel that above Focus uses, is supposed to be* CO2 neutral. The flexi fuel is E85, which means that 85% is ethanol and 15% is conventional petrol

On conventional petrol the Focus would produce 170g/km or so but on only 15% petrol it would be 15% of 170g/km or about 23g/km

*I'm not saying this is a fact!

JHMEG

My wife has a 2003 Civic IMA for the last 18 months. Import one from the UK in July yourself and avail of the €100 road tax.

Huge spec (leather everything), no dirty diesel fumes, and we get up to 74mpg out of it. The hybrid components are maintenace free and have an 8-year warranty.

PM me if you want to know more.

EDIT: E92 is totally skewing things in his post. Two examples: ethanol in this country is produced from a process which itself produces CO2, and therefore if you want to be strictly accurate an E85 car in this country has a bigger CO2 footprint, not a smaller. He's also quoting Prius figures using US miles per gallon for the Prius (I assume, as E92 hasn't quoted his source). Oh and he has never driven a hybrid either (so get the salt out).

In short a hybrid is as good economy as a really small diesel car, but is a decent size, has reasonable poke (Civic IMA is like a 1.6 petrol) and doesn't pollute near as much as a diesel does. As for longevity, we're talking Honda and Toyota here, the two most reliable marques money can buy.

colm_mcm

unkel wrote: »

On conventional petrol the Focus would produce 170g/km or so but on only 15% petrol it would be 15% of 170g/km or about 23g/km

*I'm not saying this is a fact!

That's a bit like saying my FTO is zero emissions because I'm driving the Avensis for Christmas.

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

EDIT: E92 is totally skewing things in his post. Two examples: ethanol in this country is produced from a process which itself produces CO2, and therefore if you want to be strictly accurate an E85 car in this country has a bigger CO2 footprint, not a smaller.

I said up to 85% of a reduction, I didn't promise it would actually happen!

JHMEG wrote: »

He's also quoting Prius figures using US miles per gallon for the Prius (I assume, as E92 hasn't quoted his source).

Wrong. First thing I got when I typed in "Toyota Prius Fuel Economy" to Google was this page. The tester says the following:

Routine Ripoff
I published research in November 2002 which pointed out that car manufacturers were routinely ripping off buyers by claiming fuel economy for their cars which bore little relation to reality, and which often exaggerated actual consumption by 25% or more. Some failed by over 30%. Since then, my road test data of a wide range of cars, including the most up to date new common rail diesels, showed a similar range of exaggeration.

The original Prius was the most egregious example and the new one is even more so. I had high hopes of the latest Prius, despite the fact that the original dumpy little car failed so miserably to come up to scratch. That car returned a pathetic average 38.1 miles per gallon (6.2 litres per 100 kms) compared with Toyota’s claim of 57.6 mpg/4.1 litres. That’s a massive under-achievement of 33.9%.
New Prius Fails By More
The new Prius claims even better fuel economy–65.7 mpg/3.6 litres–but manages to fall short by an even bigger margin. I managed 40.6 mpg/5.8 litres over about 350 miles, that’s 38% short of the claim. A recent test by Britain’s Autocar magazine achieved an average 41.7 mpg. I wasn’t driving the car hard, and most of the route was rolling through the Sussex countryside at between 50 and 60 mph with some motorways and a little bit of town action.

This site made me laugh, a Hybrid car needs up to 15,000 miles to be run in before it will achieve it's maximum efficiency! And you have to drive them at 40 mph for them to be ultra economical! That's barely just over half the Motorway speed limit of 75 mph!


Here's another article about the Prius' fuel economy of lack of it.

This weeks article on fuel economy has finally exposed the nonsense that is the Toyota Prius. The car was shown to have pathetic fuel economy, but I was disappointed that Autoexpress did not recalulate the emissions. A good estimate is that emissions are in proportion to real world fuel economy, which means that the Prius emissions are the really the equivalent of a car that does 41.5mpg. The real emissions of the Prius in the Autoexpress test are 167g/km, not 106g/km. The diesel cars in the survey were much better.

I was recently in LA and the Prius has been well and truly found out there. It's losing it's low emissions vehicle status. Official highway economy is being reduced to 48mpg from 65mpg, and emissions rating is going up. Owners will lose their right to use the car pool lane, which was the main facor driving sales in California. We need to stop the Prius being exempt from congestion here too, they are worse than most hatchbacks. See below for the real world emissions of some cars. Remember, put the foot down CO2 comes pouring out the back of your exhaust. Drive economically it is much less. A low emissions car helps a little bit.

A check of Whatcar.com reveals that most people are getting around 50-55 mpg(1 person got 18.9 mpg:eek:), but the things only do this in the summer as in the winter the engine needs to be on more often.

JHMEG wrote:

In short a hybrid is as good economy as a really small diesel car, but is a decent size, has reasonable poke (Civic IMA is like a 1.6 petrol) and doesn't pollute near as much as a diesel does. As for longevity, we're talking Honda and Toyota here, the two most reliable marques money can buy.

What about the making and disposal of the batteries of a hybrid? Is there no pollution in that at all:rolleyes:?

Whatever about Honda, I have yet to see or hear anything to the contrary (thus far), but as for Toyota, see the "Is Toyota quality slipping?" thread and you will see that new Toyotas aren't all they're made out to be for reliability(and I speak as someone whose parents have had Toyotas for virtually my entire life and before and I can tell you it to be fact that they don't make them like they used to). Toyota have decided to do a Merc on it, future Toyotas will not be over engineered like the older ones were.

And for the benefit of the OP, new Nissans are heavily based on Renaults, and buying a new car is just about the most environmentally unfriendly thing you can do(one of the Greenies said it was the equivalent of doing 2 years worth of driving when you buy a new car). If you really want to make a difference to the planet, you will keep your Almera till it drops dead.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Wrong. First thing I got when I typed in "Toyota Prius Fuel Economy" wa

You didn't quote your source, and you can claim anything when you don't. But we had this discussion before: everyone who gets what they expect from a Prius doesn't feel the need to start a website about it. The odd nut job who can't drive properly who gets a Prius and only gets 20mpg feels the need to start a website. For every one dissatisfied owner how many satisfied owners are there?

Why does the US EPA say the Prius is the most efficient car in 2007?

Maybe colm could tell us how many people who have bought Priuses have come back reporting poor economy?

E92 wrote: »

What about the making and disposal of the batteries of a hybrid? Is there no pollution in that at all:rolleyes:?

What about the making and recycling of a whole fecking car??! The battery is a tiny portion of the whole thing. There is more metal in a 7-series than there is in a Prius+battery.

E92 wrote: »

Whatever about Honda, I have yet to see or hear anything to the contrary (thus far), but as for Toyota, see the

What? A thread on boards.ie? You're kidding, right!

Del2005

JHMEG wrote: »

You didn't quote your source, and you can claim anything when you don't. But we had this discussion before: everyone who gets what they expect from a Prius doesn't feel the need to start a website about it. The odd nut job who can't drive properly who gets a Prius and only gets 20mpg feels the need to start a website. For every one dissatisfied owner how many satisfied owners are there?

Why does the US EPA say the Prius is the most efficient car in 2007?

Maybe colm could tell us how many people who have bought Priuses have come back reporting poor economy?

From the the EPA webiste you have linked to they have the MPG of the Prius dropping from 60mpg to 48mpg for 2007.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs.shtml

Also on the website

The test data used to determine the fuel economy estimates posted on the fuel economy labels and to calculate a manufacturer's corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) is derived from vehicle testing done at EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and by vehicle manufacturers who submit their own test data to EPA

What about the making and recycling of a whole fecking car??! The battery is a tiny portion of the whole thing. There is more metal in a 7-series than there is in a Prius+battery.


What? A thread on boards.ie? You're kidding, right!

It's a hell of a lot easier to recycle metal then a battery. And there is more then 1 battery in the Prius!!

joolsveer

Back in April I borrowed a Prius for 24 hours and travelled around Dublin. I averaged 70mpg.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055080923&highlight=toyota+prius

I never drove such an economical car before or since.

JHMEG

Del2005 wrote: »

From the the EPA webiste you have linked to they have the MPG of the Prius dropping from 60mpg to 48mpg for 2007.

This has come up before. All cars dropped due to a new test method. The maufacturers also do tests which are verified.

Del2005 wrote: »

It's a hell of a lot easier to recycle metal then a battery.

It's a hell of a lot easier to recycle a battery than it is a car.. plastics, rubbers, fluids, all sorts of metals, glass...

JHMEG

joolsveer wrote: »

Back in April I borrowed a Prius for 24 hours and travelled around Dublin. I averaged 70mpg.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055080923&highlight=toyota+prius

I never drove such an economical car before or since.

Thank you jools.. finally someone who knows what they're talking about and like me can speak from experience.

zod

yes, once battery technology allows hybrids to be plugged in to the mains.

The end game is 100% electric cars imo.

Idleater

I believe I read somewhere, can't remember where, but the figures for a prius should be compared to a 2 litre car not a 1.4/5 litre car. They are a big car, and powerful too, when the 2 engines are combined.
So, getting 48 real life mpg out of a 2 litre car is pretty good, even a 2litre diesel, especially being driven in and around the Dublin area.

E92

nereid wrote: »

I believe I read somewhere, can't remember where, but the figures for a Prius should be compared to a 2 litre car not a 1.4/5 litre car.

It has the "power" of a 2.0 litre but all it can do is 169 km/h! An 86 bhp 1.3 Yaris poses an almost identical top speed(170 km/h). A BMW 320i has a 2.0 litre engine and it tops out at 224 km/h. Even the lower powered 318i tops out(and has identical bhp to the Prius when the electric engine and petrol work in unison) at 210 km/h. A 318i goes from 0-100 in 9.1 seconds a 320i in 8.2, a Prius does it in 10.9, a 1.6 Toyota Auris in 10.4 and the said Auris tops out at 190 km/h. How does that equate with a car that gives "2.0 performance", when it is outperformed by a 1.6 Toyota never mind a brace of 2.0s?(and before someone mentions the torque a Prius has, it has 353 lb ft, but only under 35 km/h, so that is only useful below 35 km/h , and as seen by my comparisons, is of no real use at all)

JHMEG wrote:

What? A thread on boards.ie? You're kidding, right!

Well since you announced that Toyota was the reliable brand with no justification, and you clearly hadn't read that thread, I thought I would point it out to you that there is evidence to the contrary.

JHMEG wrote:

You didn't quote your source, and you can claim anything when you don't.

Well this applies to what you said above too, but I did(eventually:D) and you didn't like what they told you.

E92 wrote:

Wrong. First thing I got when I typed in "Toyota Prius Fuel Economy" was this page.

What of course I meant to say was "Wrong. First thing I got when I typed in "Toyota Prius Fuel Economy" into Google was this page", so my apologies about that and other post suitably edited.

Idleater

E92 wrote: »

It has the "power" of a 2.0 litre but all it can do is 169 km/h!

yeah, but it gets 48mpg at that - whereas the other 2l cars you mention would drop to 20's. and the 1.4/1.6 auris is a smaller car, so again like with like.

E92

nereid wrote: »

yeah, but it gets 48mpg at that - whereas the other 2l cars you mention would drop to 20's. and the 1.4/1.6 auris is a smaller car, so again like with like.

I see. That explains why a 318i averages 47.9mpg then. Or why the 320i averages 46.3 mpg. Or why a 318d averages wait for it.... 60,1 mpg AND is more economical than a Prius in the extra urban cycle at 68.9 mpg compared to the Prius which claims to average 67.3mpg or the BMW 118d which is only 2.9 mpg less economical on the combined cycle and 3.3 mpg more than the Prius on the extra urban cycle, right?(and PS the 2.0 118d is so dirty:rolleyes: that it will qualify for €100 road tax next year exactly the same as the Prius).

The Auris has 354 litres of boot space, the Prius has 408(had to go to Toyotas German website to find that detail by the way), but the Corolla which is an Auris saloon in reality has 450 litres. If you're trying to somehow imply that a Prius has Avensis like space, you're sorely mistaken, an Avensis saloon has 520 litres, a hatchback Avensis has 510, so I don't know where you're getting this idea of it being terribly spacious from(other boot space figures freely available on Toyota.ie). Having had the benefit of sitting in the back seat of an Avensis, Prius, Corolla, and indeed Auris I can tell you that the Avensis is the best by a mile, and the Prius is no more spacious than either the Corolla or Auris(I would say it is slightly more cramped than either in fact).

Idleater

E92 wrote: »

I see. That explains why a 318i averages <snip>

...

(I would say it is slightly more cramped than either in fact).

Ha Ha Ha Ha lol

You quoting manufacturers calculated figures compared to real world worst case scenario prius figures is cracking me up.

And having personally sat in a corolla, auris and prius today (purely to see what they are like, nothing else) I can safely comment that from my point of view, the prius was the most spacious for rear legroom out of the three.

Anyway, like I said, this conversation is purely academic for me, I drive a 1 litre bike that gets me 48 real world mpg, in commuting choc a block Dublin traffic, and gets me home in 30 minutes so I don't care too much about g/100k or whatever.

unkel

E92 wrote: »

It has the "power" of a 2.0 litre but all it can do is 169 km/h!

My father bought a new base model Audi 80 about 20 years ago. It had an 1.6l petrol engine with 71BHP. I think Audi are still selling this 8 valve ancient engine today :eek:

That old car could do 171km/h. About the same as a same age 1.3 Starlet or the like. I suppose most Prius owners never see the dark side of 100km/h anyways

Idleater

unkel wrote: »

I suppose most Prius owners never see the dark side of 100km/h anyways

This is a very valid point, considering where most commuters spend most of their journeys, if even half of them switched to priii, the co2 budget for the country would be halved, if not quartered.

BTW, I never suggested the prius was a performance car, I said it was a 2l car. And I specifically mentioned commuting in my posts, so the mpg figure for commuting on a prius and a 2l car *would* be different, so in certain circumstances they do make for a valid consideration.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

Well since you announced that Toyota was the reliable brand with no justification,

There are very few things in this world that can be taken for granted. Toyota reliability is one of them. There have even been books written about how Toyota achieve it. Never mind threads on boards.. (which have garbage about silver paint coming off plastic trim, ffs. That hardly affects reliablity)

Comparisons with a 2.0L are pointless.. Toyota never compared the Prius to a 2.0.

Idleater

JHMEG wrote: »

Comparisons with a 2.0L are pointless.. Toyota never compared the Prius to a 2.0.

E92 was only doing that because I mentioned that. And even there, I can't remember where I read it.

So I take the blame for that, and of course am willing to stand corrected.

E92

nereid wrote: »

E92 was only doing that because I mentioned that. And even there, I can't remember where I read it.

So I take the blame for that, and of course am willing to stand corrected.

I did make the comparisons because you mentioned them, but in fact Toyota did claim IIRC it has the performance of a 2.0, and 143 bhp is not far off Toyota's own 2.0 in the Avensis, however as I have demonstrated, in 0-100 and top speed comparisons it is bettered by a 1.6 Toyota and hammered by 2.0 BMW's(FWIW the 2.0 Avensis has 147 bhp and does 0-100 in 9.4 seconds).

JHMEG wrote:

There are very few things in this world that can be taken for granted. Toyota reliability is one of them. There have even been books written about how Toyota achieve it. Never mind threads on boards.. (which have garbage about silver paint coming off plastic trim, ffs. That hardly affects reliablity)

Falling off bits of interior while not the end of the world don't give a very good impressions of a cars' quality.

And have a look at this
thread which is straight from the Toyota Owners' Club which points to a decline in build quality(not necessarily reliability yet though)

The International Hearld Tribune has a big article and there is no escaping the fact that standards with Toyota have indeed dropped.

Speaking from a "personal experience" which you place a huge value on, my old man's Avensis has 54,000 miles on the clock(presently) and is fast approaching 3 years old. Now he has had Corollas, Carina E and Avensis for over 20 years, and thus far the Avensis has had air conditioning problems(the air was cool instead of icy cold), Traction Control problems(the electronics don't seem to understand that spinning wheels are part of the game for traction control), it has pulled to the left, and on one occasion it wouldn't start(I actually detailed this on Motors the time it happened), then did and then wouldn't again. The previous Toyota, a Carina E managed 130,000 miles, had a rev counter problem(it was sticking), needed a new battery, new clutch, and 2 recalls about something I can't remember.

howareyoudoin'

QUOTE:"...and buying a new car is just about the most environmentally unfriendly thing you can do...If you really want to make a difference to the planet, you will keep your Almera till it drops dead."


You're like the angel on one of my environmental shoulders and it's the devil on the other one that's trying to persuade me to assuage my conscience about buying a new car by saying I can get a hybrid to make it all better. It's that argument that's going on in my head that made me ask the questions in the first place.

So, after all of yer contributions (much appreciated by the way), I'm still not sure if I'm actually going to change my car, but I'm fairly sure that it I do, it'll be for a one or two year old 1.4 or 1.6ltr diesel and not for a hybrid. Any recommendations there?

Seth Brundle

howareyoudoin' wrote: »

Just one more question: Aren't diesels reknowned for being sluggish or is that a hangover myth from years ago when I used to think that I knew something about cars and engines?

http://www.greencar.com/news/dieselpowered-audi-wins-le-mans/

junkyard

I don't honestly think any true car enthusiast would be seen dead in an electric car........... I know I wouldn't be anyway, they're truly horrible, bland boring things and have reduced cars to domestic appliance status.:p

Idleater

kbannon wrote: »

http://www.greencar.com/news/dieselpowered-audi-wins-le-mans/

To be quite fair, the diesel that Audi run in the LeMans cars is about as related to the diesel you get at the pumps as sea water is.

It is refined so much to be like petrol it might as well be petrol.