1 yro boy killed by Rottweiler - UK

Freddie59

TheGooner wrote: »

Sometimes it is the dog.

Precisely. I applaud your common sense.

kerrysgold

IMO 99% of the time it's the owners that don't raise the dog's properly. maybe the other 1% would be the medical causes?

peasant

This is pure speculation now (because I wasn't there) but that Rottweiler needn't have been "viscous" at all for this to happen.

Here's the theoretical scenario:

The grandparents keep the dog mostly in the back garden, he's supposed to guard the property after all. He does get his walks, he gets his food, he's well cared for. Every now and then he's even let inside to lie by the fireside for a while.

When the older kids come around, they are introduced to him and they can pet him under supervision of the grandparents.

Everything is fine, the dog is regarded as docile and that's that.

What the dog doesn't get, is proper training with the kids and taught proper rules how (not to) behave around them.

There probably were several occasions where the seven year old went out to the dog with something in her hands like a toy or a treat to give to the dog or play with him.

On these occassions, it is likely that the dog just snatched whatever the kid had in her hands and ran away with it ...played with it or ate it.

All in good fun ...isn't it hilarious ...

Nobody bothered to correct him for that behaviour ...sure, he's only playing, isn't he ...

So ...in the dogs' mind (because he was let away with it several times) ...whatever that seven year old brought outside was his ...to play with or to eat. And it was his for the taking.

On the night of the tragic accident, the seven year old didn't walk out with a toy or a goodie though ...it was the baby.

The dog doesn't know that (he's probably never "met" the baby before) ...all he sees is his sparring partner with something very interesting in her arms. By habit, this interesting thing is also his to play with ...so he goes for it.
The seven year old most likely pulls the baby away and starts screaming.

Tragically, this is the point where the dog's natural instincts kick in: Something he wants is taken away from him ...there's shouting and excitement ...the "hunt" is on !

What was play to begin with becomes earnest ..he really goes for that poor baby, snatches it and runs away with it.

The baby cries, the other kids shout at him, try to pull the baby away, he even gets beaten by the older kid. The excitement grows, the adrenalin flows fast. So he just holds on tighter.

Whether the dog now has the intention to kill the baby, or whether he just holds it firmly because he regards it as his "toy" and doesn't want to release it is purely academic ...two, three hard bites and the baby is lethally injured.

I'm not saying this is how it happend ...but it could very well have.


Now ...all you dog owners ....think long and hard:

Have you let your dog away with just helping itself to whatever it was it wanted?
Have you had your kids play with the dog and the dog snatched something from them?
Have you taught your dog that snatching something from you or your kids is not allowed?
Do you allow your kids to play tug games with your dog?
Have you taught your dog to release things on command?

arybvtcw0eolkf

^^^^

And thats almost exactly how I described it yesterday.

That the dog didn't neccessaily know the baby was a human!.

I know my dog wouldn't have a clue what a baby is. It (the baby) being all wrapped up in its baby grow etc. Simply because my dog has never seen or been even close to a baby.

EGAR

Press Release:

UK KENNEL CLUB RESPONSE TO ROTTWEILER ATTACK

DEAL WITH THE DEED NOT THE BREED

It's time to better protect the public and encourage responsible dog ownership

The Kennel Club is extremely shocked and saddened by the tragic incident that has resulted in the death of a one year old boy in Wakefield. Our thoughts and condolences are with the boy's family and everyone who knew him.

This dreadful news highlights two things. Firstly, the need for a revision to the current Dangerous Dogs Act to place more responsibility on the owners of aggressive dogs, to cover the actions of the dog rather than the dog's breed or type (deed not breed) and to apply to incidents that take place on private property. Secondly the need to educate the public on the vital importance of training dogs correctly and to punish those that fail to do so.

The importance of training and education cannot be overstressed since displays of aggressive behaviour by any dog, regardless of breed is the responsibility of the dog's owner and in the wrong hands, any type of dog can be dangerous.

Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club Secretary said: "The key is in taking preventative measures, so these types of attacks don't arise in the first place. These measures include awareness, education and training - the onus being on the owner. A responsible dog owner knows that you never leave a dog and a child, especially an infant, alone and unattended. It is the responsibility of parents, teachers, and the government to educate dog owners and children with what to do and what not to do when they are in the company of a dog".

The Kennel Club offers two education programmes; one aimed at children - Safe and Sound, and one for dog-owning adults, the Good Citizen Dog Scheme. The purpose of the Safe and Sound Scheme is to promote the safe interaction between children and dogs, and teach children how to behave around dogs to stay safe. The scheme is in the form of a fun, interactive programme, and is very popular with children. The Good Citizen Dog Scheme, aimed at adults, covers both the theory and practical dog training skills, which are important in everyday life situations. There are three levels of award, adding to the incentive to take part in the scheme

Caroline Kisko added "Our deepest sympathies are with the family after what has been a horrendous incident. As far as any future action is concerned we would counsel a measured response rather than an immediate reaction. We have long been working with representatives of the Metropolitan Police and other organisations on our objectives for future dangerous dog legislation, which we believe would better protect the public and the welfare of dogs. The original legislation was drafted in haste in response to a spate of dog biting incidents in the late 1980's, and it's because this legislation was a knee-jerk reaction that it was poorly drafted and these incidents continue to occur. Another hasty decision will do nothing to address the real issues of responsible dog ownership".

ztoical

I've been taking with a number of friends of mine who all have children under 5 and I was suprised to find that they, as parents, had alot less sympathy for the parents of the poor 1 year old then I had.

We can argue back and forth about the dangers of dogs and how they are raised and breed and so on but the facts of this case are that the dog did not come at the child - a 7 year old carried the one year old to the dog, a situation that would never have happened had there been a parent/adult present. The mother of the baby described her 16 year old as a hero for trying to save the child from the savage dog, like she was implying the dog had broken into her house and snatch the child from her arms. That child should never have been left alone like he was.

More details keep coming out, like the mother of the 1 year old only turned 18 today and she was no longer with the father - a fact that I'm sure will start another single parent/babies having babies discussion on the parenting forums.

Of course we are going to focus on the dog as this is an animal/pet forum but I am sure there will alot of disccusion on parenting forums about this case and the focus there will be about the parents actions as much as the dogs.

nesf

I don't think the dangers of dogs really matter when people are going to allow seven year olds to carry around one year olds like that. The parenting side of it is of more importance than the breed of the animal here, but it'll be ignored in the furore in the papers etc.



Mairt, I thought that too with my parents dogs who'd never seen a baby but they did react very differently than normal when they were introduced to my son. They begged for attention from him, if you know what I mean.

arybvtcw0eolkf

nesf wrote: »

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Mairt, I thought that too with my parents dogs who'd never seen a baby but they did react very differently than normal when they were introduced to my son. They begged for attention from him, if you know what I mean.

I know what you mean, my dog loves children and like your parents he goes overboard in seeking attention from young children.

But he's never met a baby, and I honestly haven't a clue what his reaction would be to it.

Although he's never grabbed anything from someone's arms, but I'd never leave him alone with a child. Even my 12yr old daugher would never be alone with him.

I've never owned a Rottie, but was offered one for free by a mate who breeds them. My reaction - "Mick I'll never own a dog whose big enough to kill me".. I was of course half joking, but I do respect the fact that these are a huge dog and I've no experience of owning a dog so big and strong.

ztoical

nesf wrote: »

The parenting side of it is of more importance than the breed of the animal here, but it'll be ignored in the furore in the papers etc.

very true this report in the english indo makes not mention that the aunt "babysitting" wasn't even in the same room as the child.

Sparkpea

Its a very sad thing that seems to be getting more common. I do love Rottweiler's, my brother in law's father breads them and I've been considering getting a puppy recently but I'm young - in a stable relationship and will be looking to start a family soon so this has played on my mind when it comes to purchasing. As nice as Rottweiler's are they still always have it in the back of their minds that they can bite or attack and I could personally never put my kid or anyones kid in a risk environment like that.

So this is my new pup instead, cavailer king charles Got her yesterday

ztoical

Sparkpea wrote: »

Its a very sad thing that seems to be getting more common. I do love Rottweiler's, my brother in law's father breads them and I've been considering getting a puppy recently but I'm young - in a stable relationship and will be looking to start a family soon so this has played on my mind when it comes to purchasing. As nice as Rottweiler's are they still always have it in the back of their minds that they can bite or attack and I could personally never put my kid or anyones kid in a risk environment like that.

So this is my new pup instead, cavailer king charles Got her yesterday

Awwwwww what a cute puppy.

I think the key information people should take from this awful event isn't what type of dog you have but that you need to watch young children. It doesn't matter about the breed, hell a cat can harm and, yes even kill, a child if your not paying close enough attention.

Having a pet is a responsibility. Having kids is a bigger responsibility and there are too many lazy people out there.

cowzerp

Mairt wrote: »

I've never owned a Rottie, but was offered one for free by a mate who breeds them. My reaction - "Mick I'll never own a dog whose big enough to kill me".. I was of course half joking, but I do respect the fact that these are a huge dog and I've no experience of owning a dog so big and strong.

Im a rottie man and stick up for them all the time-my dog is so placid and loves to play just like my labrador-but as martin said, there very powerful and need to be kept bottom of the pecking order just like any dog should be so they dont try to take over the pack, simple behaviour training and socialising sorts this out,

my ma's dogs get away with jumping up on everyone because there small but i treat all dogs the same, im the boss and they need to respect that, and they like knowing where they stand and dont get confused about there place in the family..

Guard dog types are regularly not socialised deliberatly and this is where the problem lies, not the dog, the owners. my dog loves kids, but i make it my business to make sure he socialises with them when im around so he does not see them as a threat.

nesf

Mairt wrote: »

I know what you mean, my dog loves children and like your parents he goes overboard in seeking attention from young children.

But he's never met a baby, and I honestly haven't a clue what his reaction would be to it.

Although he's never grabbed anything from someone's arms, but I'd never leave him alone with a child. Even my 12yr old daugher would never be alone with him.

Yeah, leaving dogs alone with young kids is just a no-no. My being left to play with a Kerry Blue from the age of 3 by my grandfather notwithstanding. They're both good with him, and they don't make physical contact with him outside of licking his hand. I still wouldn't even consider leave them near him without myself or my father within a touching distance of the pair of them for a long time though.

Mairt wrote: »

I've never owned a Rottie, but was offered one for free by a mate who breeds them. My reaction - "Mick I'll never own a dog whose big enough to kill me".. I was of course half joking, but I do respect the fact that these are a huge dog and I've no experience of owning a dog so big and strong.

Yeah, the biggest issue with my parent's dogs is one of size. They are between 35-40 kilos. Their enthusiasm is as much a danger to my son as their having teeth. A rottweiler is substantially heavier again, and the mass alone of such an animal can do damage when "playing". Never mind if a child provokes an attack with a poke or similar. It's a different ballgame owning large dogs to be honest.

EGAR

I ahve and have had more big dogs than small dogs. I am not a big person myself. However, especially with large dogs the socialisation and training is paramount. As with every other dog/animal the responsibility to see this done lies with the owner.

littlebug

peasant wrote: »

This is pure speculation now (because I wasn't there) but that Rottweiler needn't have been "viscous" at all for this to happen.

Here's the theoretical scenario:


Have you let your dog away with just helping itself to whatever it was it wanted?
Have you had your kids play with the dog and the dog snatched something from them?
Have you taught your dog that snatching something from you or your kids is not allowed?
Do you allow your kids to play tug games with your dog?
Have you taught your dog to release things on command?

Excellent post peasant. These points should apply to all dogs not just the big so called dangerous dogs. One of my parents dogs, a small little mutt, 8 or 9 years old and not the brightest. She's never been the brightest spark but my mother loves her spoils her and she pretty much lives on the sofa. When we visited over Christmas I was delighted that my children seemed to have overcome their fear of dogs and actually went so far as to pat her on the head/ back. Yesterday (with my back turned ) I heard a growl/ snap/ bark and then a scream and I honestly expected blood when I turned around. Thankfully there was no harm done only a scared little boy(3 years) and a small red mark over his eyebrow where I think the dogs nose hit him. It wasn't even a scratch, it was gone in minutes. He says he just patted her on the head.... there were 3 adults in the room and no- one saw what happened. He may have accidentally poked her eye but he says not. He may have moved his face in really close to hers like he does to me.. maybe that triggered something With HINDSIGHT I can now see that the dog wasn't liking the attention she was getting she was just tolerating it and I think she'd had enough. She didn't once go to the kids looking for attention... they went to her.... not excessively in my opnion but it was obviously just too much for her.:( I think it was a warning as she could have taken his eye out with one bite if she really wanted to. She stands no more than 1 foot tall and has never snapped at anyone before. I do believe that ANY dog out of their comfort zone and faced with unfamiliar circumstances can behave unpredictably. If she had taken my child's eye out whose fault would it have been? Mine I think for not taking heed of the signals that she wasn't entirely comfortable in the company of the children.
I had planned getting a rescue dog in the springtime...I'm rather confused about it all now

EGAR

I had planned getting a rescue dog in the springtime...I'm rather confused about it all now

No need to be confused, just look for a rescue which fully assesses the dog prior to putting them up for adoption .

Duzzie

EGAR wrote: »

No need to be confused, just look for a rescue which fully assesses the dog prior to putting them up for adoption .

I hear that there is a great place in Galway EGAR

EGAR

Where will I send the cheque to, Duzzie .

Duzzie

EGAR wrote: »

Where will I send the cheque to, Duzzie .

Spend it on the puppies