'I Love Muslim Men'

blackthorn

A passionate and moving tribute to Muslim men. What the poet says resonates with me. I also experience the shyness, generosity and sweetness of Muslim men, and I love them too. As an example, I remember being in one of the Asian shops in town just as the sun was going down one day last year in Ramadan and because of lack of planning I didn't have anything with me to break the fast with except some water. I asked one of the guys in the shop if it was time for Maghrib (i.e. sunset) and he told me yes and then offered me a whole plate of dates and milk to drink.

PokerChild

blackthorn wrote: »

A passionate and moving tribute to Muslim men. What the poet says resonates with me. I also experience the shyness, generosity and sweetness of Muslim men, and I love them too. As an example, I remember being in one of the Asian shops in town just as the sun was going down one day last year in Ramadan and because of lack of planning I didn't have anything with me to break the fast with except some water. I asked one of the guys in the shop if it was time for Maghrib (i.e. sunset) and he told me yes and then offered me a whole plate of dates and milk to drink.

[thought this was in AH]

wes

Well good for you I guess.....

PokerChild wrote: »

[thought this was in AH]

Can't say I blame you.

Schuhart

blackthorn wrote: »

What the poet says resonates with me.

Despite occasional worries about whether there are necessary lies, I generally think truth is to be valued above all things. Hence, I want to make it clear that I value the truthfulness of your post and your desire to communicate and share a necessary truth that is real to you.

Unfortunately, there is a jarring verse in the poem you linked

Today they are demonized
Name-calling is not even questioned
By the so-called Politically Correct
Liberals and Progressives
Can be just as hateful and ignorant
As any Conservative or Evangelical
As they use words to try to shred
The dignity of Muslim men

All of us (on a bad day) could say those same words, just playing with the labels. Try this, for example

Today they are demonized
Name-calling is not even questioned
By the so-called god-fearing
Devout worshippers of Allah
Can be just as hateful and ignorant
As any Conservative or Evangelical
As they use words to try to shred
The dignity of liberal people

It sort of struck a thought – someone complaining about co-religionists being demonised in the same paragraph that they go a distance towards demonising others.

My point is not that many ‘liberals and progressives’ (assuming myself to probably be the kind of person they mean) actually invest some time in trying to understand things, as we don't trust authority to do it for us. My point is not that many of them do try to remember that the overwhelming majority of theists just work for a living and have no particular desire to limit the scope for human intellectual enquiry.

My point is that old lay about getting the grace to see ourselves as others see us. Yes, ‘liberals and progressives’ should ask themselves why one output of their reflections on Islam is a Muslim woman saying ‘they’re having a go at our fellahs’, and for another to say ‘right on sister’.

But a more meaningful reflection would probably be ‘how do we all feel simultaneously threatened and oppressed by the other?’ I’m not pretending I have an answer to that. But I think we do have to start posing the right questions.

Apologies on scribbling all over your feel-good post, but that’s the Internet for you. Chock full of the worst kind of weirdos.

blackthorn

Hi there Schuhart,


May I say, I appreciate the positive remarks you made.

Schuhart wrote:

But I think we do have to start posing the right questions.

You may ask yourself how you feel threatened and oppressed by the other, but it is worth taking note that for members of a minority and vulnerable group, the question is rather more pointed.

Schuhart

blackthorn wrote: »

May I say, I appreciate the positive remarks you made.

I'm really saying nothing - but you are rightly reminding us of that human level where people are simply people.

blackthorn wrote: »

You may ask yourself how you feel threatened and oppressed by the other, but it is worth taking note that for members of a minority and vulnerable group, the question is rather more pointed.

It’s a landscape where everyone finds a reason to feel they are part of a vulnerable minority. Stand on the Moon and you're looking at a planet where a minority of wishy-washy Western liberal atheists are vastly outnumbered by people praying to some god or other.

Are liberals really the enemy? They likely don’t intend to be. More likely, they are bothered about how to maintain the kind of society which a cleric in the Irish Shia community recently noted allowed practitioners of his particular flavour of Islam a freedom denied to them elsewhere.

I’m honestly not suggesting that anyone is good at self-criticism, or noticing when someone may be saying something worth listening to. So, to be honest, it’s no real surprise to see that poet take a side-swipe at liberals. Why head into the more challenging territory of how some of those liberals might give a hungry stranger a plate of dates without knowing if they shared the same religion. In roughly the same space, Atheists have trouble acknowledging that Marxism was a godless philosophy or that morality outside of religion has no clear basis other than as an expression of our collective will.

Raise any problem, and no-one wants to say ‘yep, s/he’s one of ours’.

blackthorn

Schuhart wrote:

It’s a landscape where everyone finds a reason to feel they are part of a vulnerable minority. Stand on the Moon and you're looking at a planet where a minority of wishy-washy Western liberal atheists are vastly outnumbered by people praying to some god or other.

It's telling, Schuhart that you have to stand on the moon before you can see yourself in the state of being a minority. Even so, you still belong to the 'minority' that is favoured in the imbalance of power in the world. For you, being part of a demonised minority in your own country is something you must imagine; for others it's a painful reality of everyday life.

Schuhart

blackthorn wrote: »

It's telling, Schuhart that you have to stand on the moon before you can see yourself in the state of being a minority. Even so, you still belong to the 'minority' that is favoured in the imbalance of power in the world.

I'm not making myself clear (and I think you'll figure yourself that I don't have to stand outside Ireland to be one of a minority of atheists if that's how I want to see myself). Its mostly in our heads - and pretty much anyone living in Ireland apart from a few excluded groups like Travellers is relatively empowered compared to the rest of the world. We can approach the cultural banquet of the world and choose what we want to take from it. If empowerment is what we crave above all things, then we can choose that.

blackthorn wrote: »

For you, being part of a demonised minority in your own country is something you must imagine; for others it's a painful reality of everyday life.

I think we need to push beyond defensiveness (which may not be possible, but I'll give it another spin). Demonising minorities has been something of a feature of life on this island for quite a while. We can indeed retreat into those identities and build an outlook around them. We can even invent a painful reality, if that's truly what we want.

But, to be honest, I'd reckon a lot of people experience painful realities for reasons that have nothing to do with their chosen identities - parents of autistic children, for the sake of argument. (For clarity, I don't have an autistic child as I know it tends to be people with a family connection to the problem who raise autism as an issue.)


At the end of the day, none of us knows what anyone else is carrying around in their heads and few (including me) have a full set of consistent opinions. So you understand, hopefully, when I say this I'm only speaking as one imperfect human to another. But to try to understand that I even seen an element of humour in someone presenting as a demonised group holders of a belief system that envisages people like me spending eternity in the company of, well, demons.

I stress I'm as blind as you to how I appear to others, and convinced that I'm the most insightful, balanced person on the planet. I actually don't know how to advance communication beyond this.

blackthorn

Schuhart wrote:

I don't have to stand outside Ireland to be one of a minority of atheists if that's how I want to see myself

Can you not see Schuhart, that being in a minority is not simply a matter of numbers. It's really about power. Being an Athiest does not render you vulnerable in any way. That you try to create an equivalence between the minority experience of Athiests and that of Muslims shows a stark lack of insight. How likely are you to be harrassed in the street because of your Athiesm? How often have you heard people say there should be a ban on Athiests immigrating to this country? Do people look at you in fear and loathing because of your Athiesm? Do you have to think about what would happen to your family if you should be arrested and 'disappeared'? What are the chances of you being rendered to a foreign country for torture? All these things and more Muslims face in the West today. It's not just 'in their heads' Schuhart.

wes

blackthorn wrote: »

Can you not see Schuhart, that being in a minority is not simply a matter of numbers. It's really about power. Being an Athiest does not render you vulnerable in any way. That you try to create an equivalence between the minority experience of Athiests and that of Muslims shows a stark lack of insight. How likely are you to be harrassed in the street because of your Athiesm? How often have you heard people say there should be a ban on Athiests immigrating to this country? Do people look at you in fear and loathing because of your Athiesm? Do you have to think about what would happen to your family if you should be arrested and 'disappeared'? What are the chances of you being rendered to a foreign country for torture? All these things and more Muslims face in the West today. It's not just 'in their heads' Schuhart.

I have been harassed in the streets. I would imagine if I weren't a fairly big lad and if I didn't dress like everyone else it would be far worse.

I also know some Hindu guys who have been harassed, because they were mistaken for being Muslim.

I know Muslim Women who wear the Hijab have a lot of trouble too.

Also, I haven't heard anyone talk of an Atheist "demographic threat". It doesn't matter that this argument is completely stupid and has no basis in reality, but from Israel to Europe to the US, this blatantly racist concept is apparently acceptable. What I wonder personally is how you stop a "demographic threat" that various right wing nuts like to talk about. I am sure you can use your imagination on that one.

Oh and then there are the right wing think tanks, take the recent policy exchange report, which had huge media coverage and apparently have the ear of the conservative party in the UK. Then News night investigated and found some problems (putting it mildly) with there report, here is a link for that:

News Night Policy Exchange Report

Of course the problems with there report got almost no coverage at all. Isn't the first time that such a report has surfaced.

Its not like there isn't enough bad **** that Muslim do for the media to report on, but apparently some people seem to think thats not enough and fabricate stories. Of course stories against Atheist also appear, but the frequency is no where near the same level as various "Muslims are evil" stories.

Also, then in France if you have a Muslim sounding name you probably won't get a job. Numerous examples of these kind of things.

Some of the above is the fault of extremist Muslims, bringing the entire community down, but the stuff thats going in France (with the blatantly racist hiring practices) are certainly not the fault of Muslims and there is very little we can do about that. Some things we can change, but quite a bit is simply out of our control.

Your right, Atheists a minority, but I doubt many aren't being hired due to there names.

Schuhart

Folk, can I remind you that you’re living in the country that gave the world the terms MOPE and putting on the poor mouth? All I’m seeing is a shapeless sense of grievance which you don’t seem to be reflecting on. Now, maybe behind all that you are conscious of part of the human experience in a way that amounts to more than just a load of ‘I’m sure I’m much more oppressed than you’. Maybe you do actually see ‘****e, I bet a Muslim who wants to convert to Christianity in Malaysia must have it a bit like this.’ But all I’m seeing at present is a display of scars that never felt a wound. (Can I also suggest that, while rendition flights in Shannon are most certainly an issue, the chances of a random Irish Muslim being bundled onto a plane are quite remote).

If I was responding in kind I would, of course, start down the path of listing the case of Theo Van Gogh and add on the testimony of atheists born into Muslim families, to prove I’m a much bigger MOPE than you. But I’m not going to do that.

You may not be keeping up on current events, but last October two men were abducted in Monaghan and intimidated into luring their friend to a farm where he was beaten to death. Not a Muslim. Not an atheist – or at least it was utterly irrelevant if he was. That’s oppression – a painful reality, to use Blackthorn’s phrase. People living in that situation truly have a problem. So do parents of children with mental handicaps, who also have a real continuing difficult in their lives that this society doesn't do all that much to alleviate.

Now is there any chance of getting a sense of proportion into the discussion? The poet singles out ‘liberals’ demonising Muslim men as an issue. Is that statement not an incredible load of self-serving bollocks?

blackthorn

Schuhart wrote:

(Can I also suggest that, while rendition flights in Shannon are most certainly an issue, the chances of a random Irish Muslim being bundled onto a plane are quite remote).

I mentioned rendition in the context of Muslims in the West.

Schuhart wrote:

You may not be keeping up on current events, but last October two men were abducted in Monaghan and intimidated into luring their friend to a farm where he was beaten to death. Not a Muslim. Not an atheist – or at least it was utterly irrelevant if he was. That’s oppression – a painful reality, to use Blackthorn’s phrase. People living in that situation truly have a problem. So do parents of children with mental handicaps, who also have a real continuing difficult in their lives that this society doesn't do all that much to alleviate.

Who is denying that the people you have described here suffer? Just because people who aren't Muslim have a hard time, doesn't mean that Muslim's don't. You just seem to have a blind spot when it comes to that group.

wes

Schuhart wrote: »

Now is there any chance of getting a sense of proportion into the discussion? The poet singles out ‘liberals’ demonising Muslim men as an issue. Is that statement not an incredible load of self-serving bollocks?

I agree with you on that. It tends to be right wing think tanks that do that. They also demonize liberals as well and blame them all on all the ills of the world.

Schuhart

blackthorn wrote: »

Who is denying that the people you have described here suffer? Just because people who aren't Muslim have a hard time, doesn't mean that Muslim's don't. You just seem to have a blind spot when it comes to that group.

I've a blind spot about how whatever troubles the poet envisages Muslim men experiencing can be laid at the door of liberals. That suggests to me an interpretation of all comment as an assault.

Beyond that, (and admittedly making massive assumptions, as we both are, about the material comfort and life history of someone with time to contribute to an Internet discussion on New Years Day) if we both accept that each of us is far from facing the most painful reality of anyone in Ireland, let alone the world, then we've at least achieved a degree of understanding.

wes wrote: »

I agree with you on that. It tends to be right wing think tanks that do that. They also demonize liberals as well and blame them all on all the ills of the world.

That's pretty much the thought I came in with - although I'd even feel a need to understand that conservatives would similarly feel they are demonised in turn. There's actually (IMHO) very few truly evil people in the world, yet everyone has an amount of fear of what the other crowd are up to.

wes

Schuhart wrote: »

That's pretty much the thought I came in with - although I'd even feel a need to understand that conservatives would similarly feel they are demonised in turn. There's actually (IMHO) very few truly evil people in the world, yet everyone has an amount of fear of what the other crowd are up to.

I would assume as much, hence why I reserved my ire for right wing think tanks specifically. Seeing as they seem to have trouble with facts a lot of the time.

Also, something I forgot to mention is that liberals tend to be the ones who defends Muslims more than any other group. So its odd that the poem would single them out.

blackthorn

poem wrote:

"Liberals and Progressives
Can be just as hateful and ignorant
As any Conservative or Evangelical
As they use words to try to shred
The dignity of Muslim men"

I don't see the poet laying whatever 'troubles' Muslim men are experiencing at the door of Liberals. She's saying Liberals can say things that are just as hateful and ignorant as Conservatives. Is she wrong? Or are Liberals never ignorant?

Schuhart wrote:

if we both accept that each of us is far from facing the most painful reality of anyone in Ireland, let alone the world, then we've at least achieved a degree of understanding.

That's obvious, Schuhart and I never claimed otherwise. Neither of us face 'the most painful reality in the world'. We are privileged in that respect. I don't have any problem acknowledging the suffering of people, and wouldn't dream of dismissing it as 'invented' or something they can simply choose not to experience, but that's what you have done wrt Muslims, and it reeks of arrogance.

Schuhart

blackthorn wrote: »

I don't see the poet laying whatever 'troubles' Muslim men are experiencing at the door of Liberals. She's saying Liberals can say things that are just as hateful and ignorant as Conservatives. Is she wrong? Or are Liberals never ignorant?

I’ve a feeling that the sting is in the three lines that proceed that

Today they are demonized
Name-calling is not even questioned
By the so-called Politically Correct

I take it the ‘politically correct’ are the same as the ‘liberals and progressives’ who feature in the next line. That, to me, seems to be a fairly clear statement to the effect that what’s on her mind is Muslim men being demonised by liberals who, she feels, do it without questioning. The reaction in my mind to those words is to wonder if it’s not the author who needs to do some questioning.

And, yes, liberals can be dumb. Particularly when confronted by a woman who freely chooses to be a Stepford Wife.

blackthorn wrote: »

I don't have any problem acknowledging the suffering of people, and wouldn't dream of dismissing it as 'invented' or something they can simply choose not to experience, but that's what you have done wrt Muslims, and it reeks of arrogance.

Firstly, its arrogant to get out of the bed in the morning. Once we’ve shared that arrogance, we’re equally free to partake in dialogue.

I’ll acknowledge suffering, when it’s real. And I’ll call MOPEry when it’s MOPEry. The message of that portion of the poem is that liberals shouldn’t talk about certain attitudes put forward by Islamic scholars, because the author will interpret that as an attack on her husband. Guess what, its not and if that’s what she sees in it she’s just plain wrong. Or, worse, she actually does see merit in what liberals say but would rather see their truth suppressed because she wants to live a lie. Maybe that's the awful truth that motivates her words.

Maybe she’s more in need of a change in perspective than the people she’s demonising.

blackthorn

Schuhart wrote:

And, yes, liberals can be dumb.

And they can say and do hateful things. Just don't point it out to them, it might taint their shiny self image.

Schuhart wrote:

The message of that portion of the poem is that liberals shouldn’t talk about certain attitudes put forward by Islamic scholars, because the author will interpret that as an attack on her husband.

Wrong. She makes no mention of scholars there nor criticizes anyone talking about them. She is speaking out against the demonisation of Muslim men from whatever quarter, Conservative, Liberal, Progressives - it's wrong no matter who's doing it. You have such a bee in your bonnet over her mention of Liberals, but surely anyone who engages in the demonsiation of a minority deserves to be criticised, even if they do have that label of 'Liberal'.

wes

blackthorn wrote: »

Wrong. She makes no mention of scholars there nor criticizes anyone talking about them. She is speaking out against the demonisation of Muslim men from whatever quarter, Conservative, Liberal, Progressives - it's wrong no matter who's doing it. You have such a bee in your bonnet over her mention of Liberals, but surely anyone who engages in the demonsiation of a minority deserves to be criticised, even if they do have that label of 'Liberal'.

Well to be fair. I have heard few real liberals demonize Muslims. Most tend to be Neo-conservatives posing as liberals who support pretty un-liberal things like wars of aggression to steal natural resources.

In fact Liberals tend to be friends of Muslims and they are often demonized for helping the vast majority of decent Muslims out.

Schuhart

wes wrote: »

Well to be fair. I have heard few real liberals demonize Muslims. Most tend to be Neo-conservatives posing as liberals who support pretty un-liberal things like wars of aggression to steal natural resources.

I think that's about the size of it. Christopher Hitchens comes to mind in that regard. Other freethinkers will comment on Islam, but it tends to be in a context where similar things are being said about other faiths.

Tbh, having browsed the blog of the writer in question, I've a feeling her problem is just that liberals aren't going to see the view of women set out in an amount of Muslim doctrine as cutting edge feminism. If we consider the material appearing on another thread here at present, it should be uncontroversial to say this. That's not to say that someone shouldn't embrace traditional values if that's where their inclinations take them. But she can't have her cake and eat it.

Liberals, if they remember their Voltaire, will disagree with everything you hold dear but defend your right to be different. I think the author of that poem confuses those two things. I don't doubt that, if she engages a liberal in a discussion on veiling, the liberal will very likely say s/he sees it in much the same category as wearing a teeshirt that says 'don't ask me, I'm a girl'.

I'm forming this impression as she has one of those posts here where she comes out with that old yarn about

here in the “free” US women are “expected” to wear a mini-skirt (just ask how many young women intentionally wear a skirt above the knee when going for a job interview).

as if the only dress options open to women were fastidious covering or salacious display.

Where does it leave me? I'm glad she wrote the piece, and that it was linked here so I could read it. It does make me reflect on that issue of how what's being said sounds different depending on the ear of the listener. Indeed, we do need to find some terms that allow discussion without emotions getting frayed - however we achieve that.

wes

Schuhart wrote: »

I think that's about the size of it. Christopher Hitchens comes to mind in that regard.

I was thinking of Hitchens as well. I really think he has lost the plot at this point.

blackthorn

wes wrote:

In fact Liberals tend to be friends of Muslims and they are often demonized for helping the vast majority of decent Muslims out.

It's only fair to recognise the great work done by human rights groups and the like and it's heartening to see that there are individuals prepared to stand up to the likes of Martin Amis and call him on the dangerous racist bull he came out with recently, but let's also recognise that it's not all rosy in the garden. It would be naive for us to think that all Liberals can see our situation of vulnerability and that our community is being demonised. In denying there is a problem, sadly, they can become part of the problem. I think this quote from Seumas Milne (a liberal, naturally!) is apt:

"But it is a chronic flaw of liberalism to fail to recognise power inequalities in social relations - and the attitude of some liberals to contemporary Islam reflects that blindness in spades."

I can't argue with that.

AckwelFoley

I was in McDonalds in innercity Dublin. There was a young Muslim Man eating his food. There were these 8 nackers making loads of noise and one of them started throwin chips at him.. He jumped up and i was behind him and he shouted at them and said "would you like punch.. punch!" to the little nackers.. i admired his courage so i jumped up and stood beide him and stared down these little punks.. im 6' 4 and weigh over 18 stone on a good day, and i promised myelf i wouldnt ever stand by and let anyone intimidate anyone like that.

I laugh at racist jokes i admit. But my actions speak louder than words.

the_new_mr

Schuhart wrote:

The poet singles out ‘liberals’ demonising Muslim men as an issue. Is that statement not an incredible load of self-serving bollocks?

Mind your language Schuhart. As well as containing unnecessary profanity, that statement also carries aggressive over-tones.

normar

blackthorn wrote: »

A passionate and moving tribute to Muslim men. What the poet says resonates with me. I also experience the shyness, generosity and sweetness of Muslim men, and I love them too. As an example, I remember being in one of the Asian shops in town just as the sun was going down one day last year in Ramadan and because of lack of planning I didn't have anything with me to break the fast with except some water. I asked one of the guys in the shop if it was time for Maghrib (i.e. sunset) and he told me yes and then offered me a whole plate of dates and milk to drink.

You do not have to be a Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew or any of the many many religious labels we put on people to make them frendly or generous.

It is being Human that makes us generous and helpful regardless of what label they are described with. I'm sure that even Athiests are too (being one I'd like to think so anyway).

So we do not need to describe generousity with a religious label? I don't believe it is necessary to do this and nor should we.

We are first and foremost Human Beings


..

shqipshume

blackthorn wrote: »

A passionate and moving tribute to Muslim men. What the poet says resonates with me. I also experience the shyness, generosity and sweetness of Muslim men, and I love them too. As an example, I remember being in one of the Asian shops in town just as the sun was going down one day last year in Ramadan and because of lack of planning I didn't have anything with me to break the fast with except some water. I asked one of the guys in the shop if it was time for Maghrib (i.e. sunset) and he told me yes and then offered me a whole plate of dates and milk to drink.

that was nice u arent married 2 him though are you, are u muslim irish

the_new_mr

normar wrote: »

You do not have to be a Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew or any of the many many religious labels we put on people to make them frendly or generous.

It is being Human that makes us generous and helpful regardless of what label they are described with. I'm sure that even Athiests are too (being one I'd like to think so anyway).

So we do not need to describe generousity with a religious label? I don't believe it is necessary to do this and nor should we.

We are first and foremost Human Beings


..

I think that the goal of the poem was to show that Muslim men can be compassionate also.

blackthorn

normar wrote:

We are first and foremost Human Beings

Right, and the poem is making the point that Muslim men are Human too, despite how they are sometimes portrayed.

wes

blackthorn wrote: »

It's only fair to recognise the great work done by human rights groups and the like and it's heartening to see that there are individuals prepared to stand up to the likes of Martin Amis and call him on the dangerous racist bull he came out with recently, but let's also recognise that it's not all rosy in the garden. It would be naive for us to think that all Liberals can see our situation of vulnerability and that our community is being demonised. In denying there is a problem, sadly, they can become part of the problem. I think this quote from Seumas Milne (a liberal, naturally!) is apt:
.

I just read an interesting article on Martin Amis, which can be found here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/article774978.ece

I think it pretty clear that the man is somewhat losing his mind. He take some interesting contradictory positions, some which go against liberalism, of which he claims to be of, strangely enough. The guy seems like a man, who has lost it and can't quite make up his mind. I wasn't sure if he was a racist, it seemed like he had lost it, actually. The stuff he come up with, he contradicts pretty quickly.

However, his support for the quite frankly racist demographic argument about Muslims (not to mention ignoring Palestinian suffering), pretty much shows that he is a racist. The entire Eurabi fiction really only has one solution to it and we all know the kind of solution they tried in Europe not that long ago. Yes, I know I risk invoking Godwins law, but I think we all know what someone is talking about when it comes to a "demographic" argument.

donaghs

He does seem to be losing it alright - seems to advocating something like the Japanese-American's internement after Pearl Harbor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

As the interviewer hints, its hardly something he'd favour if a minority of people who looked like Amis were involved in terrorism.

wes

donaghs wrote: »

He does seem to be losing it alright - seems to advocating something like the Japanese-American's internement after Pearl Harbor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

As the interviewer hints, its hardly something he'd favour if a minority of people who looked like Amis were involved in terrorism.

I just have to add, I don't like calling him a racist. He really does seem to have some problems. He goes off on feminism at one moment and hails it another. Its absolutely perplexing. Really, its feels nasty to go off on this guy, as he seems to have serious issues. Its truly a sad state of affairs.