Seriuosly piddled off

Morganna

yes i agree with you Egar they could quite easily round them up and send them abroad to needy familys .I have two milking goats .

DonJose

Best of luck Egar, don't forget to update us. Just shows what a pack of walter mitty idiots those hunters are, using face paint and camo, what a pack of pr**ks.

Vegeta

Clearly what happened to you EGAR was a disgrace, such a flagrant abuse of health and safety, not to mention common sense. Anyone who hunts in that manner is dangerous.

I think you'll find though it will come down to your word versus there's, they'll just say they were there first and so will you. Can you prove they were not. What kind of stickers are on your car? If they are anti hunting stickers they may hinder your arguement as you may be painted in a biased light

The only way coillte can stop this from happening 100% of the time is to ban walking/biking etc etc etc Don't know if they can legally do that but from their point of view the trees need to the protected so they'd probably let hunters in before they'd let walkers in.

As far as I am aware anyone who wants to shoot on coillte land (for deer anyway) has to take a written and practical test and would have been vetted by the gardai for their firearms license.

There is a lot of sensationalist anti-hunting bs in this thread too. Just becuse EGAR met some hunters who were out of line doesn't mean every hunter is.

EGAR

I have to disagree with you re hunting on Coillte land. Every Dick Tom and Harry here goes hunting in the Coillte forests WITHOUT any tests etc.

The stcikers on my car say: **I believe in dragons, good men, faeries and other fantasy creatures. ** and **BSL - there comes a time when silence is betrayal**.

luckat

EGAR wrote: »

There are fairly large herds of feral/dumped goats around here and towards Co. Clare. Coillte claims they are destroying the trees although the parts where they are there are neither no trees or very mature ones.

Maybe there were before the goats came

EGAR

I doubt that very much, not many trees grow in the blanketbog

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

I doubt that very much, not many trees grow in the blanketbog

did you get back to hsa or anything today about it

EGAR

I did, the ball is rolling.

The Artist

EGAR wrote: »

I did, the ball is rolling.

good to hear that i hope somethings done about it

NoNameRanger

Maybe the hunters were in the wrong, maybe they arrived after you and went in anyway. I'm pretty sure the hunters are not employed by Coillte, they are most likely recreational hunters paying collite to shoot there, as in every walk of life you will get people that don't follow the rules. They all now have to complete a safety and animal welfare course known as HCAP before they are allowed to hunt on Coillte lands.

But all this talk of poor goats and poor deer and hunters are pricks cruel vicious evil people that dress up and terrorise the country is very unhelpful and inflammatory. A little knowledge of the facts before charging into a thread in a rage please.

The facts are that deer and goats cause hugh damage to forestry and native woodland and special areas of conservation. There are Rangers culling for NPWS, not the prettiest job in the world but it has to be done, when people understand the need for culling and the precautions and safe guards put in place for the public, the hunter and the animal being culled they are usually satisfied with the process, you will always have the minority who will never accept anything that is said and just can't handle the killing of a fly.

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.
Bothar was actually contacted a number of years ago by NPWS and offered a constant supply of goats for Africa, their response was that these goats we were offering are feral goats and not milking goats and would be no benefit to the people of Africa, they only ship animals that will produce the best yields. So the only other option is culling, if anybody wants kid goats as pets they are welcome to them.

I get seriously piddled off when people who are so passionate about animals don't bother to inform themselves on how the wild world actually works and mans role in it, instead they get on a forum and call other people names and make them out to be monsters. When in reality they are the real conservationists for the most part albeit for a few bad apples.

johngalway

Well said NoNameRanger

Mellor

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Maybe the hunters were in the wrong, maybe they arrived after you and went in anyway. I'm pretty sure the hunters are not employed by Coillte, they are most likely recreational hunters paying collite to shoot there, as in every walk of life you will get people that don't follow the rules. They all now have to complete a safety and animal welfare course known as HCAP before they are allowed to hunt on Coillte lands.

But all this talk of poor goats and poor deer and hunters are pricks cruel vicious evil people that dress up and terrorise the country is very unhelpful and inflammatory. A little knowledge of the facts before charging into a thread in a rage please.

The facts are that deer and goats cause hugh damage to forestry and native woodland and special areas of conservation. There are Rangers culling for NPWS, not the prettiest job in the world but it has to be done, when people understand the need for culling and the precautions and safe guards put in place for the public, the hunter and the animal being culled they are usually satisfied with the process, you will always have the minority who will never accept anything that is said and just can't handle the killing of a fly.

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.
Bothar was actually contacted a number of years ago by NPWS and offered a constant supply of goats for Africa, their response was that these goats we were offering are feral goats and not milking goats and would be no benefit to the people of Africa, they only ship animals that will produce the best yields. So the only other option is culling, if anybody wants kid goats as pets they are welcome to them.

I get seriously piddled off when people who are so passionate about animals don't bother to inform themselves on how the wild world actually works and mans role in it, instead they get on a forum and call other people names and make them out to be monsters. When in reality they are the real conservationists for the most part albeit for a few bad apples.

Nice post, can safely say you know what you are talking about.

foxshooter243

johngalway wrote: »

Well said NoNameRanger

yeah ,good man tell those antis to stop acting the goat!!

It wasn't me!

Call a hunter all the names under the sun, and I imagine he's still doing a lot more for the preservation of the environment and our natural wildlife species than you ever will. Also, all having a good laugh at wearing camouflage for stalking? If you come across people on roadwork sites, do you laugh at their hard hats and fluorescent jackets? It's all for a reason, and while you remain so ill-informed, it's better that you not disseminate falsehoods, for everyone's sake.

ztoical

Lol let me guess someone posted a link to this thread in the hunting/gun forum and you all rushed over to set the record straight? :rolleyes:

Yes there are extreme views on both sides of the fence. I, and I'm sure alot of people on this forum, are well aware that culls need to take place at certain times. Some people can't understand or find it difficult to deal with but there are extremes on the other side as well.

It wasn't me!

ztoical wrote: »

Lol let me guess someone posted a link to this thread in the hunting/gun forum and you all rushed over to set the record straight? :rolleyes:

Better than seeing the constant ignorant defamation which has endangered shooting sports thus far continue unabated.

ztoical

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Better than seeing the constant ignorant defamation which has endangered shooting sports thus far continue unabated.

you know I'm sure theres a few killing animals bad posts on the veggie forum - quick to the batmobile

It wasn't me!

I'm sure a lot of them are more informed than has been displayed here though.

ztoical

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.

while it is true that wolves have been extinct it is not 100% true that goats are not native to ireland. There are herds of will indigenous goats namely the wild goats of the Burren.

While I understand and support culls when they are needed as culls not only protect forestry and native woodland but also the animals from stravation and sperad of diease when their numbers become to high.

HOWEVER there is always a flip side and that is that not all culls are carried out under strict guide lines and on a few occasion animals have suffered unnecessarily.

NoNameRanger

ztoical wrote: »

while it is true that wolves have been extinct it is not 100% true that goats are not native to ireland. There are herds of will indigenous goats namely the wild goats of the Burren.

While I understand and support culls when they are needed as culls not only protect forestry and native woodland but also the animals from stravation and sperad of diease when their numbers become to high.

HOWEVER there is always a flip side and that is that not all culls are carried out under strict guide lines and on a few occasion animals have suffered unnecessarily.

Goats are not native/ indigenous to Ireland, they were introduced by Man a long time ago. That is why they are known as FERAL GOATS!!!
I know what I'm talking about!! They did not arrive with the end of the last Ice age. They came on a boat!

Yes there are a few bad apples as i said already, my job is to enforce the wildlife act and prosecute the bad apples which i do very well, but in my experience the vast majority of hunters are genuine people with the greatest of respect for wildlife.
I just wish people would educate themselves before forming such strong opinions that in the end will harm the very wildlife they are trying to protect. We are living in a very urbanised environment these days and if all urban people thought this way it would very quickly pressure politicians into banning all hunting. This would cause untold damage to the biodiversity and wildlife of Ireland.
Nature is cruel!!! Life in the wild is not what kids see in Farthing Wood. That is a cartoon where animals have personalities and speak english. In reality the fox kills the rabbit and eats him and the rabbit suffers. Man is the most humane predator on the planet and is capable of keeping things in balance with a minimum of suffering, imagine the suffering to a goat being killed/ eaten by a wolf compared to a bullet killing it before it hits the ground. Before you say it i know some times animals suffer, that is human error, but its far better than the alternative. Most shots are clean kills and one minute the animal is grazing contently and in the next millisecond it is dead without knowing anything about it.

I am not defending the actions of these hunters described at the begining of this thread, what i take issue with is the posts that followed and people reactions to the OP.
I am a professional conservationist, a true nature lover, i understand our wildlife more than most people and i work everyday to conserve it for very little reward. But i have no problem with raising a gun to shoot a goat or a deer. Its conservation! If you don't believe me ask David Attenbourogh or simply view his fottage of goat culling on the Galapogos Islands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrFIcWzSEo

ztoical

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Goats are not native to Ireland, they were introduced by Man a long time ago. That is why they are known as FERAL GOATS!!!
I know what I'm talking about!! They did not arrive with the end of the last Ice age. They came on a boat!

Yes there are a few bad apples as i said already, my job is to enforce the wildlife act and prosecute the bad apples which i do very well, but in my experience the vast majority of hunters are genuine people with the greatest of respect for wildlife.
I just wish people would educate themselves before forming such strong opinions that in the end will harm the very wildlife they are trying to protect. We are living in a very urbanised environment these days and if all urban people thought this way it would very quickly pressure politicians into banning all hunting. This would cause untold damage to the biodiversity and wildlife of Ireland.
Nature is cruel!!! Life in the wild is not what kids see in Farthing Wood. That is a cartoon where animals have personalities and speak english. In reality the fox kills the rabbit and eats him and the rabbit suffers. Man is the most humane predator on the planet and is capable of keeping things in balance with a minimum of suffering, imagine the suffering to a goat being killed/ eaten by a wolf compared to a bullet killing it before it hits the ground. Before you say it i know some times animals suffer, that is human error, but its far better than the alternative. Most shots are clean kills and one minute the animal is grazing contently and in the next millisecond it is dead without knowing anything about it.

I am not defending the actions of these hunters described at the begining of this thread, what i take issue with is the posts that followed and people reactions to the OP.
I am a professional conservationist, a true nature lover, i understand our wildlife more than most people and i work everyday to conserve it for very little reward. But i have no problem with raising a gun to shoot a goat or a deer. Its conservation! If you don't believe me ask David Attenbourogh or simply view his fottage of goat culling on the Galapogos Islands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrFIcWzSEo

I'm not about to start a stupid flame war with you honey...your right I was wrong to use the word indigenous thou I do think arriving over 4000 years ago is pretty good going.

In case you didn't notice I agreed with you that culling of herd is important to not only protect land but also for the animals themselves. And I also said it was only a handful of gung ho idoits running around that gives an otherwise law abiding hunters a bad rep. My only comment on the original post was if the photos of the signage posted by the OP were correct then it was a serious issue.

Yes some people have expressed extreme views on the subject of hunting and I for one welcomed your first post cus as you said there needs to be better education explaining the difference between hunting for sport and hunting for conservation reasons, and plus it is always nice to have counter view points in a discussion. However I felt posting a link in the hunting forum under the mocking tittle "Animal lovers" looked more like trying to ignite a flame war then encourage open and frank discussion. It also felt a little condescending.

Scotty #

EGAR wrote: »

What speaks against rounding them up, putting them in quarantine and then sending them off to some needy family somewhere where kids still starve???

Morganna wrote: »

yes i agree with you Egar they could quite easily round them up and send them abroad to needy familys .I have two milking goats .

Not an option. These are wild goats. VERY aggresive and you would need a compound like forth knocks to hold them. Much more economical to cull them.

The most you can expect EGAR, is for these guys to be told to be more careful in future and maybe an apology from Colilte

stevoman

ztoical wrote: »

Lol let me guess someone posted a link to this thread in the hunting/gun forum and you all rushed over to set the record straight? :rolleyes:

yes of course. all of us who hunt are sick of being seen in a bad light by people who are completly uneducated on the subject and cry about how cruel we are and that we are barbarians.... please.

If only some of this anti hunting rage could be put into some sort of common sense. We hunt and eat the game... whats wrong with that.

If you are all so concerned about animal welfare maybe you should start campaining outside the chicken factory's. You know they only live for a few weeks and never see the light of day or even outside a cage... or what about pork? You know they eletricute them and then their throats are slit when they are supposed to be incapasitated from the shock, but they are not. I can go on about this, but whats the point... thats socially acceptable so it is.

stevoman

NoNameRanger wrote: »

I am a professional conservationist, a true nature lover, i understand our wildlife more than most people and i work everyday to conserve it for very little reward. But i have no problem with raising a gun to shoot a goat or a deer. Its conservation! If you don't believe me ask David Attenbourogh or simply view his fottage of goat culling on the Galapogos Islands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrFIcWzSEo

Well said, they had to cull over 100,000 Goats i beleive from these islands in order to give all the other wildlife a chance as they had everything in site eaten.

The Artist

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Maybe the hunters were in the wrong, maybe they arrived after you and went in anyway. I'm pretty sure the hunters are not employed by Coillte, they are most likely recreational hunters paying collite to shoot there, as in every walk of life you will get people that don't follow the rules. They all now have to complete a safety and animal welfare course known as HCAP before they are allowed to hunt on Coillte lands.

But all this talk of poor goats and poor deer and hunters are pricks cruel vicious evil people that dress up and terrorise the country is very unhelpful and inflammatory. A little knowledge of the facts before charging into a thread in a rage please.

The facts are that deer and goats cause hugh damage to forestry and native woodland and special areas of conservation. There are Rangers culling for NPWS, not the prettiest job in the world but it has to be done, when people understand the need for culling and the precautions and safe guards put in place for the public, the hunter and the animal being culled they are usually satisfied with the process, you will always have the minority who will never accept anything that is said and just can't handle the killing of a fly.

Wolves have been extinct from Ireland for a long time now. Sika deer and goats are not native to this country and thrive here, their populations need to be controlled.
Bothar was actually contacted a number of years ago by NPWS and offered a constant supply of goats for Africa, their response was that these goats we were offering are feral goats and not milking goats and would be no benefit to the people of Africa, they only ship animals that will produce the best yields. So the only other option is culling, if anybody wants kid goats as pets they are welcome to them.

I get seriously piddled off when people who are so passionate about animals don't bother to inform themselves on how the wild world actually works and mans role in it, instead they get on a forum and call other people names and make them out to be monsters. When in reality they are the real conservationists for the most part albeit for a few bad apples.

allright they do damage to the forestry its thier nature they harmless animals but why shoot them?put fences or protect the trees.whats more important animals of the wildlife or trees ?

lightening

davey180 wrote: »

whats more important animals of the wildlife or trees ?

No trees = no wildlife.

stevoman wrote: »

yes of course. all of us who hunt are sick of being seen in a bad light by people who are completly uneducated on the subject and cry about how cruel we are and that we are barbarians.... please.

Nobodys calling you a barbarian. They are just pointing out the amatureness of the people in the first post. Surely you agree that they are fools?

Go back to the shooting forum and read what your moderator says...

I have been shooting lots of times (without the need of face paint :rolleyes:) There are certain precautions you have to take, surely you agree with me?

The Artist

lightening wrote: »

No trees = no wildlife.



Nobodys calling you a barbarian. They are just pointing out the amatureness of the people in the first post. Surely you agree that they are fools?

Go back to the shooting forum and read what your moderator says...

I have been shooting lots of times (without the need of face paint :rolleyes:) There are certain precautions you have to take, surely you agree with me?

to what extent of the dammage is done to trees? are they killing the tree? it this a global warming issue with the trees

Vegeta

EGAR wrote: »

I have to disagree with you re hunting on Coillte land. Every Dick Tom and Harry here goes hunting in the Coillte forests WITHOUT any tests etc.

May I ask how you know this?

fits

Well I think EGAR had every right to be annoyed at the events of the OP. It was very amateur and silly behaviour on behalf of those hunters.

Sparks

Since I'm being quoted, if indirectly, might I point out that the OP's post doesn't exactly constitute informed opinion on some technical points? For example, what sort of camoflage were the hunters wearing? Was it military surplus DRM or was it deer hunter camoflage? Where exactly were the shots fired and in what direction? What round was in use (and thus, what was the extent of the danger area)? How many signs were put up in the area (was a survey carried out to find out if all access routes to the area had the same sign seen by the OP?). Had the sign been mounted in a more visible location and then slipped, or was it just casually thrown up against the fence by the hunters (and who saw this happening)?

Because what the OP is basicly doing is accusing the hunters involved of breaching the firearms act and recklessly discharging a firearm, which is a criminal offence carrying maximum sentences of a fine of 7,000 euro and five years imprisonment. So it's important to get the details right, especially if they're going to pursue this in the courts...