goals/minutes on pitch stats

Melion

Tusky wrote: »

Yeah, noticed that as well. In fairness, Liverpool fans haven't been saying Gerrard has been ****. Hes having a great season. They are both on 11 assists as well.

You should have seen the posts in the liverpool thread about 2 months ago from our own "fans" saying he should be sold, dropped, doesnt want it anymore etc.

Mr Alan

Gerrard is always gonna split the camp. Some people just dont like him.

And fans of opposing clubs just dont like to admit Liverpool have one of the top players in world football

PHB

They did, one of the greatest players i've ever seen play, McManaman That said, how anyone can say Gerrard is **** is beyond me. My problem with Gerrard is that imo he is a very flawed player and probably not good for Liverpool. However I have seen evidence in the past few games that he is becoming more mature, and starting to return to his old style of play before he became completely relied on for everything.

People keep moving the goal posts on Ronaldo. I don't think people will ever shut up unless he scores a hattrick in the CL final. Ronaldo has few assists this season, mostly because United have been playing relatively poorly imo. Lots of his assists last season came from Saha who hasn't scored. Last season he got 14 in the league.
As for the whole big game thing, let's look at this season:

He's played Liverpool(A) Arsenal(A) and Chelsea(A),
Against Chelsea he was poor
He's scored one against Arsenal. Was quite good, not great.
He played relatively poorly against Liverpool. That said, so did every other attacking player on the pitch. He was doubled marked by Mascherano the entire game, until the very end, when he was put up front. When he went up front, he made two very good runs, one of which he set up Rooney for an easy finish which he missed.

Oh yeh btw, he's also scored 5 goals in the CL this season, but that's not the top level either. It's all about the knockout stages!
It's not like he set up the goal against Lille that got us into the quarter finals.
It's not like he got a brace and an assist against Roma last season, sure it's not like they are that good, only 2nd in Serie A.
Sure it's not like he scored the opening goal against AC Milan in the first leg.
It's not like in the 6 knockout games, he scored 3 goals and and got 2 assists.

Oh yeh, in international football he's shocking too. 20 goals in 51 games. Shocking stuff

Until he scores a hattrick in the CL final, people will still say he doesn't do it in big games.

Helix

tbh i think its the ineptities of the rest of the liverpool team that make gerrard look so good a lot of the time

Helix

PHB wrote: »

Until he scores a hattrick in the CL final, people will still say he doesn't do it in big games.

i dont really buy into this "you absolutely need to do it in big games" mentality myself

in big games against top opposition a world class player is likely to find himself the focus of interest for 2 or even 3 top class defenders, where the player proves his worth in these situations is to draw his shadows around with him, creating space for other players to run into

a lot of people cant see that when theyre watching games and just assume that the player has "gone missing"

Mr Alan

PHB: Ronaldo was not double marked by Mascherano.

eirebhoy

Attractive Nun wrote: »

That's a bit strange he's only gotten 1 assist, he was getting loads last season.

To be honest, he's no Fabregas or Totti when it comes to creativity with a pass.

His assists this season and last:

[B]Team               Goalscorer  Description[/B]
Derby (h)          Giggs       Shot parried
S.Lisbon (h)       Tevez       Mis-hit shot

Sheff Utd (h)      Carrick     Short pass
Roma (h)           Carrick     Short pass
Blackburn (h)      Carrick     Made his way into the box and cut the ball back
Blackburn (h)      Park        Friedel failed to hold a shot from a freekick
Bolton (h)         Park        Cut-back after making his way into the danger area
Bolton (h)         Rooney      Simple through ball after a fabulous flick from Rooney
Bolton (h)         Park        Jaaskelainen failed to hold a shot
Lille (h)          Larsson     Fantastic cross from the left wing
Reading (h)        Carrick     Simple pass for a typical Carrick 25 yard strike
Tottenham (a)      Scholes     Low and hard cross from the right
Watford (h)        Rooney      Excellent chipped through ball
Newcastle (a)      Scholes     Short pass
Reading (h)        Solskjaer   Low cross from the wing
Man City (h)       Rooney      Low Cross/through ball from deep on the right
Benfica (h)        Giggs       Excellent cross from the right
Middlesbrough (a)  Saha        Went down easily for a penalty
Copenhagen (h)     O'Shea      Corner
Newcastle (h)      Solskjaer   Shot rebounded
Benfica (a)        Saha        Forward pass to Saha for a goal outside the box
Tottenham (h)      Giggs       Parried shot by Robinson from a freekick

6 of those assists were shots. 4 or 5 were just basic passes that me or you could make. I'm talking about 3 or 4 yard passes for 25-30 yard goals.

So he hasn't actually set up a goal through a good technical pass/cross since March. Maybe he was playing more as a winger then as he seemed to set up a few goals with crosses from the wing?

His most creative assist would be that chipped through ball for Rooney. That'd be the only time he "split the defence" with a pass in the last season and a half. I'd be expecting much more through balls from him considering the positions he gets in and the pacy strikers in the team.

He's the best in the world at beating players though and because of that and his tremendous goalscoring record he's certainly world class.

lordgoat

Meh, i'll gladly have him not score ever against Chelsea and him keep playing like he has been this season and last.

If he'd scored the penalty against West Ham it may have been enough to win the game and that would have been yet another game where he bailed his team out. It's these kind of performances that win trophies in my opinion.

(I am in no way blaming him for the result ,against West Ham he was prob the best Man u player)

Mikeyt086

Ronalds's attitude is bad? He doesnt track back because he cant defend, Rooney can so he does. Giggs used to not track back but now he does. Ronaldo is the first person to arrive to training and the last to leave. On he day his dad died he played a qualifier match against Russia because he wanted to honor is father and didnt want to let his country down. Thats some attitude to football in my opinion.

The difference this season i would say is that the team are looking to him for goals more after last season. And at the very top of the goalscoring charts would suggest that he is delivering.

He would have about 20 assists if Tevez finished like a true poacher, but thats not his game and im not having a go at him, i love Tevez. United dont have a goal poacher like Van Nistelrooy. Chelsea have Drogba, Liverpool have Torres and Arsenal have Adebayor that the team look to supply for but United dont, so Ronaldo has taken the job on himself.

PHB

Ronaldo is not a defense splitting passer, although he can do it. Hell he did it against West Ham for Giggs. His gets behind defenses, which is why most of his assists come from short passes coming in from the wings or crosses.

Mr. Alan, what game were you watching? Every time Ronaldo got the ball he was instantly crowded out, instantly. Not just by Mascherano, but by Gerrard as well.

Mr Alan

he was closed down. yes. liverpool do that with all teams. i would have thought that different to being double marked?

ps. i believe Giles calls it honesty of effort!?

eirebhoy

PHB wrote: »

Ronaldo is not a defense splitting passer, although he can do it. Hell he did it against West Ham for Giggs. His gets behind defenses, which is why most of his assists come from short passes coming in from the wings or crosses.

In fairness though, since that fabulous cross to Larsson back in March he has set up 3 goals which would fall under the strict definition of an "assist". His parried shots and short passes to Carrick would not. That's very poor for a creative player.

PHB

It's honesty of effort when you do it for everyone. Whenever he got the ball instantly 3 players closed him down. That's not just honesty of effort, it's planning.

Well actually if you look at it it's relatively simple. He gets behind the defense. The strikers who feed off this are the ones who play at the very front of the line. Saha does this. Larsson did this. Nobody in the United team currently does this. I don't think his play has changed much, or gotten worse, just different players around him.

Mr Alan

PHB: just do me a favour please.....

admit that 1 assist is poor from Ronaldo......

it'll be good for you

PHB

It is poor But understandable, and not his fault

Mr Alan

pathetic

Guy:Incognito

Melion wrote: »

You should have seen the posts in the liverpool thread about 2 months ago from our own "fans" saying he should be sold, dropped, doesnt want it anymore etc.

I was one talking about selling him, but it wasnt as simplistic as your making it sound. The jist was that we might be better of with 30-40 million of well spent money over one player that may or may not be worth the money a foreign club would pay.

It was soley dependent on the money being spent properly and on the right players. Seeign as this is hypothetical and not something you could gurentee then it was a "what if" conversation. From a team point of view 30-40 million spent on say a top class right winger, back up centre half and a very good striker with the centre pairing of Masch & Alonso might have us in a better situation team wise than we currently are.

PHB wrote: »

Oh yeh btw, he's also scored 5 goals in the CL this season, but that's not the top level either. It's all about the knockout stages!.

Colin Kazim-Richards has scored in the CL this season too.:)

eirebhoy wrote: »

His parried shots and short passes to Carrick would not. That's very poor for a creative player.

Does that actually count as an assist tho? I thought it had to be the last person to touch the ball (not including deflections) but the keeper getting a definate save I would have thought breaks up the current move and starts a new one.

eirebhoy

Yeah all the sites have him down for an assist against Derby.

DSB

Haha I think 1 assist can be forgiven when you're top scorer in both the Premiership and the Champions League. People need to be realistic instead of horribly biased.

Thanx 4 The Fish

DSB wrote: »

Haha I think 1 assist can be forgiven when you're top scorer in both the Premiership and the Champions League. People need to be realistic instead of horribly biased.

So now you have said that, and you say that people are being horribly biased yet you fail to admit that one assist all season from a "World Class" player is dreadful.

shane86

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd rate Ronaldo as more World class than Tevez and Rooney tbh. Tevez scored wat, 9 goals last year? and hasnt overly impressed at Utd so far imo.

Rooney, i would class as having the potential to be world class-and is,at times,world class, but for me the consistency isnt there, i dont think he has delivered as much as a lot of people have expected him to do. But there is still time for him to do that.

I agree (more than most) that Ronaldo is annoying as hell, and as a person, its very easy to dislike him, but his form the last couple of years really has been outstanding.

Agreed on all. Tevez has time to grow but so far is a bit, well Schevchenko*-lite. Rooney last year certainly wasnt the player he was at 17/18, but i think he is back on the up, and his CL performance has come on miles. And he has 13 odd years left in him, and I somehow doubt he will be playing for West Brom by his late 20s.

Ronaldo can be a *just remembered the player abuse rule here* ahem, not a particularly sporting individual on the pitch. Apparently in real life he is bang on.

**** he must be for Rooney to have buried the hatchet with him, no Barton-Dabo craic with them yet and doesnt look like there will be.

*: I just realised that is the first time Ive had to type Adriy Shevs name, and **** me it took about four edits, and Ill bet Im still not right


Edit- as for assists, if I could move my legs in such a hyponotically confusing manner as Ronaldo I wouldnt bother with assist, id be self confident As seen by his goal scoring rate.

DSB

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

So now you have said that, and you say that people are being horribly biased yet you fail to admit that one assist all season from a "World Class" player is dreadful.

Admit? What have I to admit? I'm not the lad's Mammy, I don't even support any team he plays for or has ever played for. 1 assist is irrelevant if he is scoring at the rate he is.

Tusky

Kewell has about 5 assists I think.

Kewell > Ronaldo

Mikeyt086

People love a reason to put Ronaldo down.

I was shocked to hear he only had 1 assist and this isnt well known, but i guarentee you that some of the people in this thread will make it their business to tell everyone they can "Ah yeah but he only has one assist you know."

Ask any fan in the world if they want the top scorer in the Premiership and Champions League or 6 or 7 more assists.

People will hate Ronaldo, i accept that, he accepts that. Jealousy can be so clear sometimes and we need people to hate him, he trives on the hate of others.

*btw thats not a reaction to Tusky lol.

Tusky

Better not be! Ive been defending Ronaldo. Doesn't really matter if hes getting assists or not when hes in the kind of scoring form hes in now.

Mikeyt086

nah it wasnt

Thanx 4 The Fish

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

People love a reason to put Ronaldo down.

I was shocked to hear he only had 1 assist and this isnt well known, but i guarentee you that some of the people in this thread will make it their business to tell everyone they can "Ah yeah but he only has one assist you know."

Ask any fan in the world if they want the top scorer in the Premiership and Champions League or 6 or 7 more assists.

People will hate Ronaldo, i accept that, he accepts that. Jealousy can be so clear sometimes and we need people to hate him, he trives on the hate of others.

*btw thats not a reaction to Tusky lol.

Jealous of him, are you some kind of crazy, I would have lampard or cesc in ahead of him any day of the week, both far superior players, not as selfish and less likely to cost their team when he gets greedy, while helping the team as well as themselves to goals. When frank was banging em in at a similar rate to that winker he was also getting a fair amount of assists, don't remember too many united fans coming on too sing his praises mind. And to suggest that I hate somebody I have never had the privilege of meeting based on something I have written in a bulletin board (which is a statement of fact BTW) is bordering on the crazy :rolleyes:

Mikeyt086

I stopped reading your post when you said Lampard was a "far better" player than Ronaldo. Yeah mate, sure he is.

I knew, i KNEW with all that was said in this thread about his assists which is so trivial, he would get one today, and what an absolute stroke of genius it was.

I just love it when people doubt Ronaldo, its so funny.

LeixlipRed

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I just love it when people doubt Ronaldo, its so funny.

And other people love it when he fails. And if you think back a couple of seasons to the circus act of a player he was originally then I'd tone down the smugness a tad

Mikeyt086

What when he was 17 years old? Thats fair...

The fact that people love to see him fail completley backs up what ive been saying.

LeixlipRed

All I'm saying is talk about his greatness in 5 or 6 years. He's on the middle of his second good season. And people like to see him fail because he typifies the spoilt, cheating stereotype of a modern footballer

Mikeyt086

Thats fair enough that he's still young and not yet mentionalble with the likes of all time greats but he is definatley one of the best around today.

And you dont know about his charity work and the 2 weeks he spent with survivors of the tsunami, granted he whinges on the pitch and comes of as a brat which even pisses me off at times but that isnt the way he conducts himself off the pitch.

Attractive Nun

So what, you think we should only look at things in retrospect? What's wrong with appreciating a talent while he's playing well. I only wish I was around to watch the likes of Pele, George Best and Johann Cruyff in their prime. I'd certainly like to think that those who were lucky enough to see them play weren't sitting around thinking 'Hang on now, these guys mightn't be as good as we think. Let's wait until they score a hatrick in three separate world cup finals before we jump the gun'. Why can't people just appreciate good players for what they are?

I can remember watching Ronaldinho for Barca a few years ago, thinking that this guy is special. People were trying to compare him to the all time greats, and fair enough that was probably premature as it turns out, but I still remember his performance against Real Madrid when the Bernebeau applauded him off the pitch. Sure, he's gone to **** now but that takes nothing away from his incredible 2005 season. Same with Ronaldo - maybe he's not as good as some people hype him to be, maybe he will go to **** in a few years time, but right now he's playing football that is a pleasure to watch. If people can't appreciate good football when they see it, without searching for something to complain about, then why even watch football in the first place?

Guy:Incognito

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

And you dont know about his charity work and the 2 weeks he spent with survivors of the tsunami, granted he whinges on the pitch and comes of as a brat which even pisses me off at times but that isnt the way he conducts himself off the pitch.

Most highprofile (and lots of lesser ones too im sure) dotons of charity work.Thats not whats in question. People see him whinging and diving on the pitch on tv. The fact that it works is somethign a lot of people find annoying because it's signalling an end to noest football and movigntowards non contact basketball. Most players that go on like him on the pitch are (rightly imo) moaned about and ridiculed by fans.

Attractive Nun

For the amount of times he's fouled, Ronaldo does a lot less moaning than most. In fact, if I was preparing a case against Ronaldo, 'moaning' would be one of the last things I'd complain about. How he puts up with the treatment he's often subjected to without reacting violently is quite impressive IMO. I never understand why people will complain so vehemently about 'whingers' like Ronaldo who sometimes get upset by rough, often unfair, play while eulogising the 'hard' players in the game. I consider it a far greater crime for someone to make a tackle designed to hurt or injure an opposition player than that opposition player calling for the tackler to be sent off.

Diving is not on, though. I used to defend Ronaldo somewhat on this, because he did come from a different culture (that Portugal team in the world cup should be ashamed of their diving in that competition), and he had cut out diving from his game to a great extent. But he's picked it up again recently, and it's not on IMO. Really annoys me actually.