Please help dog trouble!

katie25

My dog is an 8 months old male. He constantly bites and pulls at family members clothes. I have marks on both my arms and legs where he has bitten me. This can last all day and for most of the evening. Its doesnt seem like he is being playful as he grinds his teeth and can be quite aggresive.

When I go to put on his lead before a walk he runs away. Then when i eventually put the lead on him he freezes and stays still, he is almost like a statue. I find this very odd as I thought most dogs would be excited to go for a walk .I have to carry him out of the house as he wont walk. Once he is out he is fine but he growls at other dogs and people. I have tried bringing him out for more walks but this has not helped his behaviour either. I have also tried to displine him by putting him out of the room , rasing my tone of voice, spraying water when he snaps. The vet suggesed lifting him up by the back of the neck and shaking him as this would be what his mother would have done. None of this has worked and he just keeps coming back for more biting even harder this can last hours.He is very friendly in the morning or when I first see him and likes to be petted but during the day or the evening if i try to pet him he snaps and doesnt seem to like affection.I just find his behavour strange in a puppy. When friends come into the house he constantly barks at them. Honestly dont know what to do, please can someone help me!

Witcher

a good slap of a newspaper will sort him out!






:cool::cool::cool:

SuzyS1972

First and foremost a vet is not a behaviourest - I beleive in 7 years training vets cover about 2 days on behaviour.
Picking a dog up by the neck and shaking him is totally inadvisable.
Your dog sounds very fearful and the growling at other dogs is possibly a fear based agression that really needs to be sorted out asap.
Have you had him from a pup as 8 months is quite old to still be at this mouthing behaviour.

To be honest with you I would not ask for advice on this one on the net - it's a tircky situation that needs careful handling or you may just make the dog 50% worse - que the previous stupid response you got.

Consult a good behaviourist such as Julie Holmes
www.tagnrye.com

or speak to the girls at Dog Training Ireland
www.dogtrainingireland.ie

they sound like the kind of problems my 1st jrt had and he just got worse and worse - he's fine now and behaving himself with the help of Julie.

bitemybanger

He needs to know who the boss is, newspaper works but dont roll it up too tightly or you will hurt him, its more the noise that they dont like, if he bites you, bite him back or pinch him. Change your tone of voice when your giving out to him.
As for the lead, put the laed on him and let him walk round with it on, let him get used to it then when he seems comfortable with it on, pick it up and slowly lead the way using tid bits or treats to take his mind off him being on the lead and he will then associate the lead with good things.
What brees is he?? ill take a guess at a king charles???

Witcher

SuzyS1972 wrote: »

que the previous stupid response you got.

my dad was a vet and he always said an owner ascerting dominance with a

swipe of the irish independant was no harm, and he had dogs when you were

crapping your nappies :mad:



i mean like honestly how did people survive years ago with dogs when the were no people to

train a dog to behave?


a good kick and that sorted it no this modern crap of dog behaviorists!


do you think people in 1950's ireland who had a disobedient dog saved to see a behaviorist?





:cool::cool::cool:

summer_ina_bowl

blay1 wrote: »

m yeah like vetrinary medicine is a 7 year course,
and to study human medicine is only 6 years! hahah lmao

ok, this is off point, but i can't resist...

wow, this must be embarrassing for you...
vet med takes at least seven yrs in ireland and thats if you go the most direct route. human doctors have the advantage of bein able to ask their patient how they feel, it takes a lot of hard work and experience to read and animals symptoms. also, doctors treat humans... vets treat dogs, cats, cows, horses, hamsters, rats, rabbits, every type of imaginable bird and reptile... can you imagine having to learn the exact anatomy and physiology of each of these creatures? how medicines affect different species? hmmm, your dads a vet - but eh, who are you

*deep sigh*
katie 25, i feel ur pain - literally! its a very common problem these days as pups are being taken from the litter environment at a very young age.
don't shake the dog too hard and you won't do any harm - its usually the immobilisation of being scruffed that works as a deterrent.
was your dog very young when you first got him? he may never have been properly socialised, yelp or screech as loudly and shrilly as you can when he hurts - when you use a lowered cross tone, he may see it as a challenge for more play fighting, but a screech will let him know that he has hurt you.
as for the lead, leaving a light loose lead on him is good advice but also try giving him a little treat when ever you clip the lead on for the first few weeks.

if you don't feel up to the challenge then i'd advise seeing a specialist, you need to show him who is boss and that can't be done with half a heart!

Witcher

summer_ina_bowl wrote: »

hmmm, your dads a vet - but eh, who are you

what does that mean???





:cool::cool::cool:

summer_ina_bowl

it means, that my dads a doctor but i don't go around giving psychological or parenting advice because well frankly, i don't know anything about human med!

peasant

SuzyS1972 wrote: »

To be honest with you I would not ask for advice on this one on the net - it's a tircky situation that needs careful handling or you may just make the dog 50% worse - que the previous stupid response you got.

Consult a good behaviourist

Seconded, thirded and fourthed !


There are many things wrong in your relationship to your dog ...they can only really be addressed on an individual basis.

Witcher

thats was what my father told me, it worked for him, me , anyone iv ever

told it to!


you would have got that if you read my posts! :rolleyes:





:cool::cool::cool:

summer_ina_bowl

blay1 wrote: »

you would have got that if you read my posts!

I did read ur posts - u only mentioned ur dad after ur advice was slandered.
A tip bud, give advice off ur own back so that u can defend it well when questioned - not credit it to someone else!

katie25, out of interest, what is the breed?!

katie25

Thanks for the advance. Yes we got him at 7 weeks. He is a ****zu I have tried changing my tone of voice and have even screamed when he has bitten me but he doesnt stop no matter how hard i try to get him to stop, even a tap doesnt work he just gets worse and keeps lungin at me bitting me.I wonder would neutering help?

Our man in Havana

neutering should always be done unless you have plans to breed & I would never suggest breeding unless you know what you are doing.

As others have said it sounds like you need proper help - talk to a behaviourist & see what they suggest - that will be better than taking advice like slap the dog with newspaper this will only make a nervous dog WORSE.

bitemybanger

yes this would calm him down but it has some drawbacks, the most obvious one would be weight gain. consult your vet for pros and cons.

fits

bitemybanger wrote: »

yes this would calm him down but it has some drawbacks, the most obvious one would be weight gain. consult your vet for pros and cons.

The 'weight gain' thing, is not true for most dogs. If an owner sees their dog gaining weight they should adjust diet and exercise accordingly anyway. The benefits of neutering far outweigh the drawbacks, and I'm speaking as an owner whos owned both.


@ OP definitely get a good behaviourist out and soon. Those recommended by suzy1972 are a good idea.

I cant even begin to respond to the 'my dad is a vet so I know it all... know it all'. Grow up!

SubjectSean

katie25 wrote: »

I wonder would neutering help?

Yes but so would cutting his head off, both a tad drastic IMO. You sound like you need to see a behavoirist as it sounds like the dog just doesn't believe you're the top dog. Probably something you're doing that hasn't been mentioned. Do you let the dog up on your bed or on the furniture? You have to be consistent 100% of the time and not do anything to let the dog think it is equal to you.

peasant

SubjectSean wrote: »

Do you let the dog up on your bed or on the furniture? You have to be consistent 100% of the time and not do anything to let the dog think it is equal to you.

slightly OT

Please credit dogs with some intelligence. Just because they're sitting on the settee doesn't make them feel "equal". They know that they are dog and you are not.

But if you had previously forbidden it and now they're still up there , it actually makes them superior

Because the little buggers now that they can outwit and outwill little inconsequent you at any turn.

Nothing to do with being "equal" or "leader of the pack" or "alpha" or whatever, but everything with leadership.

You don't provide it ...they take it over

Demonique

SubjectSean wrote: »

Yes but so would cutting his head off, both a tad drastic IMO.

Unless the dog is a show dog that's intended for breeding and is a good specimen of his breed, then he SHOULD be neutered, as is the case for all dogs. Un-neutered male dogs run the risk of testicular cancer, dogs are NOT humans they won't feel any less male because they're ball-less and they won't feel they're missing something.

Demonique

blay1 wrote: »

i mean like honestly how did people survive years ago with children when the were no people to

train a child to behave?


a good kick and that sorted it no this modern crap of child behaviorists!


do you think people in 1950's ireland who had a disobedient child saved to see a behaviorist?





:cool::cool::cool:

I fixed your post

kerrysgold

Agreed. All dog's should be neutered and spayed, then there wouldn't be the huge overpopulation problem. Until our male dog was neutered, he was a complete loon, non stop humping etc! He will still tug at your clothes but once you tell him NO he will stop.

my dad was a vet and he always said an owner ascerting dominance with a

swipe of the irish independant was no harm, and he had dogs when you were

crapping your nappies



i mean like honestly how did people survive years ago with dogs when the were no people to

train a dog to behave?


a good kick and that sorted it no this modern crap of dog behaviorists!


do you think people in 1950's ireland who had a disobedient dog saved to see a behaviorist?

A good kick? And then people wonder why their dog's turn vicious! How would you like a ''good kick'' every time you did something wrong? Would that make you respect your parents/teachers/boss etc?
And that is exactly why I would never take advice from a vet regarding an animals behaviour.

kerrysgold

Oh dear, demonique, you'll have the humans>animals brigade after you now!

luckat

Ignore the posts suggesting that you slap the dog, shout at it, kick it, etc.

I had a dog that did this same biting thing; unfortunately she escaped and was hit by a car and killed.

By that time I was covered in bruises on my arms and legs from her bites.

If I had a dog like this now, I would try clicker training (read Karen Pryor's book Don't Shoot the Dog), and if this didn't work, I would conclude that the dog is mentally ill and can't be trusted to understand when not to bite, and I would have it put down.

This isn't a nice thing to hear - no one wants to think of putting a healthy animal to sleep - but it may come to this. But I'd try clicker training first.

kerrysgold

I wouldn't say put the dog down if it didn't respond to clicker training though, maybe not all animals respond to clicker training, personally I've never used a clicker, I've always just used food and toys as rewards. I would only consider putting a dog down if it was actually full on aggressive i.e. vicious biting, not just nipping and being annoying sort of biting, but as this dog is still young and luckily only a small one (although bad behaviour can't be tolerated in a small dog anymore than it can be in a large dog, but at least a small dog isn't going to inflict serious injuries) this issue should be resolved fairly easily before it escalates in to full-on aggression/possessiveness etc.

EGAR

My dog is an 8 months old male. He constantly bites and pulls at family members clothes. I have marks on both my arms and legs where he has bitten me. This can last all day and for most of the evening. Its doesnt seem like he is being playful as he grinds his teeth and can be quite aggresive.

At 8 months he is a teenager and he will now act out with what he got away when he was a pup. If he acts up, don't say a word but put him in a room of his own, let him cool down for a while and afterwards when you let him back out IGNORE him for about the same length of time. I presume he was a cute pup and got away with alot??:D

When I go to put on his lead before a walk he runs away. Then when i eventually put the lead on him he freezes and stays still, he is almost like a statue. I find this very odd as I thought most dogs would be excited to go for a walk I have to carry him out of the house as he wont walk.

.

He obviously associates walks with unpleasant things. Make it fun for him to go out, bring a treat, let him sit before you put the lead on, put on the lead and then give him a treat. DO NOT carry him, it just re-inforces his *belief* that something is wrong.

Once he is out he is fine but he growls at other dogs and people. I have tried bringing him out for more walks but this has not helped his behaviour either.

This might be down to his association of walks with unpleasant things. Correct him if he growls and watch your own body language, ie are you anticipating his growling by holding your breath or shortening the leash when you meet other peeps with dogs?

I have also tried to displine him by putting him out of the room , rasing my tone of voice, spraying water when he snaps.

Forget the shouting, forget the water. The message will sink if ALOT faster if you stick to the out of the room/ignore routine. Repetition and consistency is the key in dog training.

The vet suggesed lifting him up by the back of the neck and shaking him as this would be what his mother would have done.

Your vet is WRONG, no bitch grabs and SHAKES a pup! The dog will associate the shaking with your intent to kill it. DO NOT follow that advice, it can make an insecure dog VERY hostile!

None of this has worked and he just keeps coming back for more biting even harder this can last hours.

See above: consistency and repetition!! There is no miracle cure.

He is very friendly in the morning or when I first see him and likes to be petted but during the day or the evening if i try to pet him he snaps and doesnt seem to like affection.

Start to only pet him on YOUR term, ie if you WANT to not if he asks for it!

I just find his behavour strange in a puppy.

At 8 months he is not a pup anymore but a pesky spotty teenager .

When friends come into the house he constantly barks at them.

Same routine as with any other undesireable behaviour, out of the room, cooling down phase and ignoring. Repeat if necessary and tell your friends to completely ignore him as well.

I am all for neutering for population control. I am not one to suggest neutering as miracle/instant cure of behavioural issues, especially human aggression, however, it will calm him down a bit, it usually takes about 4 weeks for the effect to set in in a male dog.

peasant

luckat wrote: »

If I had a dog like this now, I would try clicker training (read Karen Pryor's book Don't Shoot the Dog), and if this didn't work, I would conclude that the dog is mentally ill and can't be trusted to understand when not to bite, and I would have it put down.

This isn't a nice thing to hear - no one wants to think of putting a healthy animal to sleep - but it may come to this. But I'd try clicker training first.

Good lord in heaven ...give me patience!

So you can read a book a you can click a clicker...whey, hey ...good for you ... biiiig deal ...bravo!

But if the dog doesn't do what you want it to you "conclude" that it's mentally ill and you'll have it put down??

Are you delusional? Read too much Sherlock Holmes?

What if your too bloody dense to do it right? What if the dog is really clever and simply resists your noisy attempts at being conditioned* like an automaton
(* I'm not talking about shampoo here).

You "conclude" ...:rolleyes:

And who made you ruler over life and death? Karen Pryor?

Training a dog REALLY isn't rocket science. All it needs is a bit of understanding, the realisation that you're dealing with a dog, patience and repetition.

Done ...no need for anything else ...not even a clicker.

Certainly no need for "concluding" and definetly not for killing the poor, confused dog.

If the dog doesn't do what it's supposed to ...you didn't train it right. You didn't make yourself understood. Try again.

Simple as that.

luckat

kerrysgold wrote: »

I wouldn't say put the dog down if it didn't respond to clicker training though, maybe not all animals respond to clicker training, personally I've never used a clicker, I've always just used food and toys as rewards.

In fact, that's what's at the centre of clicker training - the use of the clicker just refines the method. At its centre are targeted rewards.

Someone here mentioned a really excellent trainer who comes to your home and trains the dog - a man, not a woman. Anyone remember who it was?

(I tried a trainer at one stage when my dog was a pup and found her useless; the clicker training method absolutely saved me, and built up a bond between us that means she still loves to learn things now at the age of six - yesterday she barked when the phone went, and I praised her for telling me, and I could see her drinking in the information that barking to tell me about the phone was a good thing!)

If you can get a good, gentle trainer, this is probably your best first step.

Intothesea

Hello folks. Katie, it sounds as if your dog hasn't
been given enough consistent direction to convince
him that he's at the bottom of the family pack, which
is the key to harmonious dog relations

Smaller dogs are known for their bossy tenacity
(napolean complexes) and for this reason it's wise
to train and socialise them reliably from as early
an age as possible. If he's still nipping at 8 months
he has left the 'golden' period for programming, but
you can most certainly put it right with a bit of
endeavour.

Not wanting to go for walks could be a matter of
fear (stemming from him feeling that you're not pack
leader, i.e. no protection and guidance), or could
just be a gambit to prove to you that he's in charge,
it's tricky territory.

Along with everyone else, I'd recommend that you
see a dog behaviourist or whathaveyou, buy a good
book on dog/puppy training and read everything
you can online about the breed type's character
and requirements. Also, neutering is a must for
a peaceful house (unless you intend to breed).

The basics of dog training involve firmly but
gently taking the role of pack leader over your
dog. He has to see you as the 'owner' of all
situations, and he must respect you. For this
you have to win his trust by being mindfully
engaged, consistent and fair.

The best of luck to you.

SubjectSean

Demonique wrote: »

Un-neutered male dogs run the risk of testicular cancer, dogs are NOT humans they won't feel any less male because they're ball-less and they won't feel they're missing something.

I'm assuming you don't have testicles so I'll let this slide

katie25

Yes he is a family pet so I will look into neturing him. Would this calm him down? I think you could be right about him thinking he is the head of the family. I suppose we let him away with a lot when we first had him, but I thought it was normal behaviour for a pup and he was just being playful. I would not consider putting him down and I am prepared to try anything

Thanks again for all your feedback

SubjectSean

katie25 wrote: »

Yes he is a family pet so I will look into neturing him. Would this calm him down?

Not necessarily so it should be your last ditch effort. Really you should try training first.

katie25 wrote: »

I suppose we let him away with a lot when we first had him, but I thought it was normal behaviour for a pup and he was just being playful.

It is totally normal behaviour it's really your response to it that's caused the problem.

kerrysgold

EVERY dog should be neutered whether it is to calm them down or not.
There is no need for an entire dog or unspayed bitch unless they are perfect specimens of the breed or show dogs. The ignorant attitude of ''it's unfair to neuter the dog'' is the reason why about 20,000 of them are killed every year! A dog doesn't even care that it's been neutered, a female may be sore for a few days but she won't care either. It's the owners that have the problem! Neutered dog's don't get fat, no dog will get fat if it is fed and excersized properly.