The Good Things Of Wrestling

Machismo Fan

There is so much negativity about wrestling these days that I thought I would start this thread. No negativity if you don't agree about what someone says start a new thread about it.

And don't say theres nothing good about wrestling anymore because there is. I know my Raw review was negative but that was deliberate.

So post what you think is going good in the world of pro wrestling at the moment.

For me Jay Lethal and Kaz are two of the fasted rising stars in wrestling, Lethal with or without the gimmick has been a standout performer all year and Kaz's recent matches with Christian, Roode and Angle have been excellent.

And the feud between Jericho and JBL should be very good considering their ability on the mike and Jericho's in the ring

If you can't have any negativity then you can't properly discuss the positive side of anything. Whats the point in different people listing what they believe is a good thing in Pro-Wrestling if nobody can disagree?

Its just biasness.

Machismo Fan

Isn't everything anybody says around here bias. Just say what you think is good in wrestling around now because if there is disagreement this will turn into another why TNA is bad thread but disagree of you want.

Vince135792003

Bryan and Vinny Figure Four Radio weekly recaps of TNA.

Here's a phenomenal sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwC56IzHBg

Machismo Fan

Thats NEGATIVITY not discussion I don't care what Bryan Alvarez or Dave Meltzer have to say. I want your opinion not theirs.

Vince135792003

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Thats NEGATIVITY not discussion

It's positive negativity.

The views of Bryan Alvarez just about sum up how I've felt every time I tried to give TNA a chance last year. I do genuinely enjoy his recaps of TNA. If TNA died tomorrow, it would be the only thing I'd miss about the promotion.

Machismo Fan

Good Things About Wrestling!!!!!!!!!

flahavaj

Matt Sydal's moonsault
Kobashi beating cancer
Sweet n Sour Incorporated, the greatest faction in wrestling today
ROH on PPV
Finlay still being awesome after all these years
Tanahashi breaking out as a true main eventer this year
Bryan Danielson and everything he does
HBK still being the showstopper
1990's AJPW and early 90's Joshi
Santino's accent

OK, I'll give it a go...

Good things...

Raw's 15th anniversary show,
Kane,
Figures (Classic Superstars Series 14 was amazing)
Mickie's rack,
Kurt Angle still going strong,
Finlay still being as bad ass as ever,
Santino Marella,
The RAW and SmackDown! titantron set ups,
Majority of theme music,
The great promo's WWE's production team put together for Jericho...



Pfft... erm.. Thats about all I can think of at the moment. But at least it's something.

RichieLawlor

Santino Marella is class, i still laugh every time i see the Jerry Stupid Lawlor clip

RichieLawlor

Deleted User wrote: »

OK, I'll give it a go...

Good things...

Raw's 15th anniversary show,
Kane,

it would seem you are a bit of a Kane fan, is it just Kane or Glen Jacobs your a fan off.

Well Glen Jacobs generally speaking, but I believe his greatest character/gimmick is the Kane one.

I actually had his ring attire that he wore in 02/03 made into a pleather-style tracksuit. Its odd looking, but very comfortable. Kane/Jacobs would be my favourite wrestler. Theres just something that draws me to him. I know he's no Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle or Bret Hart... But he just has some kinda presence about him.


Why do you ask?

Bubs101

In all fairness, Kane was fantastic when he had the mask

michael.etc...

Personally, I don't espcecially like Kane, and never have done, but I can appreciate that his presence is probably his best asset.

for me, hmmm,

ROH's PPV's
Raw's recent improvements
Pushing Jeff Hardy and CM Punk, we need more superstars who are alernatives to musclebound behemoths.
Bryan Danielson
Kobashi's triumphant return
Shimmer
Bret Hart's book
The fact that the next few months of WWE PPV's look exciting, for the first time in a long time.
PWInsider
New Japan getting back on track

callaway92

JR
EDGES Entrance..brill
that UMAGA used to be JAMAL HA:D:D

Bubs101

Bubs101 wrote: »

In all fairness, Kane was fantastic when he had the mask

I hate when people say that. I mean... Its a small piece of leather. It doesn't affect his performance in the ring, nor does it make him any more athletic... Getting rid of the mask had to be done at some stage.If it hadn't he'd be a very dull wrestler right now.

Gerard.C

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate when people say that. I mean... Its a small piece of leather. It doesn't affect his performance in the ring, nor does it make him any more athletic... Getting rid of the mask had to be done at some stage.If it hadn't he'd be a very dull wrestler right now.

YOU'RE BEING NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!1

Machismo Fan

Gerard.C wrote: »

YOU'RE BEING NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!1

Theres a difference between negativity and discussion.

TOPDAWG

When something makes you mark out big time!!
Like not knowing of a wrsetlers return or some crazy spot that pulls you back in just as your getting fed up of it all.

i.e The Ring Return of

THE WREEEEEEESTLING GAAAAAAAWD


J.....B.....L!!!!!

flahavaj

michael.etc... wrote: »

Personally, I don't espcecially like Kane, and never have done, but I can appreciate that his presence is probably his best asset.

for me, hmmm,

ROH's PPV's
Raw's recent improvements
Pushing Jeff Hardy and CM Punk, we need more superstars who are alernatives to musclebound behemoths.
Bryan Danielson
Kobashi's triumphant return
Shimmer
Bret Hart's book
The fact that the next few months of WWE PPV's look exciting, for the first time in a long time.
PWInsider
New Japan getting back on track

Good list. Especially the New Japan one. They've pissed all over NOAH this year, in terms of one on one main events at the very least.

Although I have to disagree on Shimmer. Outside of a handful of matches, the quality of the wrestling is piss poor. Basically there's very little quality women's wrestling out there that didn't take place in the early 90's in Japan.

Oh and PW pop up is a decent site but the spyware and ads would break your heart.

Lita Forever

flahavaj wrote: »

Although I have to disagree on Shimmer. Outside of a handful of matches, the quality of the wrestling is piss poor. Basically there's very little quality women's wrestling out there that didn't take place in the early 90's in Japan.

I would have to disagree with you there..I'm assuming that to make a comment like that you would have had to have seen most if not all of the 12 volumes of Shimmer action available on DVD, right? So I'm interested in hearing examples of the wrestling or matches you found " piss poor" I'm not attacking your opinion or anything, but I've rarely came across a negative comment about Shimmer, so I'm intrigued.

I disagree about the quality of women's wrestling comment as well. There's quality to be found not only in Shimmer, Chickfight CHIKARA, and lots of other indie promotions as well. It's out there, if one only looks. Hell, even TNA and WWE knock out a great women's match once in a while, so it's not all bad.

flahavaj

Lita Forever wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you there..I'm assuming that to make a comment like that you would have had to have seen most if not all of the 12 volumes of Shimmer action available on DVD, right? So I'm interested in hearing examples of the wrestling or matches you found " piss poor" I'm not attacking your opinion or anything, but I've rarely came across a negative comment about Shimmer, so I'm intrigued.

I disagree about the quality of women's wrestling comment as well. There's quality to be found not only in Shimmer, Chickfight CHIKARA, and lots of other indie promotions as well. It's out there, if one only looks. Hell, even TNA and WWE knock out a great women's match once in a while, so it's not all bad.

Firstly lets not make this a sexism thing or anything like that. I'm not trying to wind anyone up here. I'm currently immersed in a collection of the best matches in Joshi history and I can hand on heart say that some of the matches on that comp are some of the breatest matches I've seen in my life, incredible stuff.

Now onto Shimmer. I've seen enough Shimmer to realise that the quality of wresting was disappointing in general. Apart from Sara del Ray, Amazing Kong, Cheerleader Melissa and possibly Mercedes Martinez (Kong and Melissa aren't even regulars btw)there's a real shortage of good wrestling on show. Lacey is billed as the top heel but in reality she's a terrible worker and her she seems to think that screeching at the top of her voice constitutes an effective heel. Daizee Haze is also someone who disappointed me terribly. The quality of her and indeed the majority of the roster is quite laughable and wouldn't be out of place in a backyard indy. And don't get me started on Allison Danger, another of their so called big names: she's just flat out terible.

Now don't get me wrong, it saddens me to be so dismissive of Shimmer and I really wish I could come on here and rave about how great they are. But the truth is you would be mad to fork out good money for any of their shows when even the worst ROH show is far superior in just about every way.

I've not seen any Chickfight Chikara so I'm not in a position to comment but to be hnest i'm in no hurry to either and this is coming from a guy who's wrestling tastes are just about as broad as they come. I judge women's wrestling by the same standards as I would men's wrestling (as I'm sure any women would want me to) and really American women's wrestling doesn't hold up in the vast majority of cases. There are a few shining lights like Mickie James, del Ray and Kong but they are the exceptions that prove the rule unfortunately.

Lita Forever

flahavaj wrote: »

Firstly lets not make this a sexism thing or anything like that. I'm not trying to wind anyone up here.

Who is saying it's a sexism thing? I stated in my original post I wasn't attacking your opinion, I was merely interested in reading elaboration on it. Does it automatically become sexism in your eyes when a women questions someones opinion on women's wrestling? If that's the case, it's rather obvious where the real sexism is coming from.

flahavaj wrote: »

Lacey is billed as the top heel but in reality she's a terrible worker and her she seems to think that screeching at the top of her voice constitutes an effective heel.

I respectfully disagree. I think Lacey happens to be a very competent worker. She plays her character great both in and out of the ring, and possesses great technical skill. I guess it's difference of opinion but I can't see how she's terrible at all.

I also disagree with your opinion of Haizee. She's a breath of fresh air and definitely one of the top indie workers. In fact, Daizee and Lacey have been two of the few women featured prominently in RoH. I'll agree with you on Danger though, I was never a fan.

You said you're in no interest to see other promotions like CHIKARA but yet can say there's very little quality wrestling out there. You can't really make a statement dismissing the quality of women's wrestling out there if you have no interest in watching at least a little bit of promotions like these, that might prove you wrong.

You're obviously a big Joshi fan. The only thing I'd say there is you can't fairly compare the standard of American women's wrestling to that of Japan. The two are like night and day.

flahavaj

Lita Forever wrote: »

Who is saying it's a sexism thing? I stated in my original post I wasn't attacking your opinion, I was merely interested in reading elaboration on it. Does it automatically become sexism in your eyes when a women questions someones opinion on women's wrestling? If that's the case, it's rather obvious where the real sexism is coming from.

No need to go down that road, all I'm saying is that I hope that you're defending them for their work as wrestlers and not because they're women

I respectfully disagree. I think Lacey happens to be a very competent worker. She plays her character great both in and out of the ring, and possesses great technical skill. I guess it's difference of opinion but I can't see how she's terrible at all.

I also disagree with your opinion of Haizee. She's a breath of fresh air and definitely one of the top indie workers. In fact, Daizee and Lacey have been two of the few women featured prominently in RoH. I'll agree with you on Danger though, I was never a fan.

Lita Forever wrote: »

You said you're in no interest to see other promotions like CHIKARA but yet can say there's very little quality wrestling out there. You can't really make a statement dismissing the quality of women's wrestling out there if you have no interest in watching at least a little bit of promotions like these, that might prove you wrong.

You're obviously a big Joshi fan. The only thing I'd say there is you can't fairly compare the standard of American women's wrestling to that of Japan. The two are like night and day.

Well Shimmer is generally acknowledged as the peak of North American wrestling, so if I'm not impressed by them I doubt any other female indy will changemy mind. Between trying to keep up with present-day Japan, lucha ROH and the rest as well as the older stuff I love so much i don't have time for everything!

Like I said it's not an anti female thing and I'm not a narrow minded fan like many around here who look down their noses on anything that doesn't have a titan tron, but I do have cetain standards for the wrestlers I do watch, be they male, female or minis!

Lita Forever

Yes, I was defending Shimmer because I happen to be a fan, not just blindly defending them because they're an all woman promotion. Lol. If I was some sort of a blind feminist mark you'd see me defending the in ring work of the likes of Maria and Kelly Kelly..not too likely to happen.

I do understand what you're saying about not having time to watch everything . But all I was saying was to make a statement saying there's no quality women's wrestling out there when you haven't seen everything there is to offer isn't very fair.

Oh and I knew you weren't anti female or narrow minded, had I thought you were I wouldn't have wasted my time or energy debating with you.

Fozzy

I've probably typed enough for tonight, but I've really enjoyed Lacey and Daizee this year. I've only seen one full Shimmer event and a few matches here and there from it, and most of what they've done in ROH. It's entertained me and I think there's a market for it

Other things that are good about wrestling...

New Japan's prospects for 2008
NOAH's heavyweight prospects for 2008
Wrestling promotions that can survive without multi-millionaire backers (that's all of them but one )
Tomko's kick to the face
Alex Shelley outside of TNA
Bryan Danielson

michael.etc...

Good list. Especially the New Japan one. They've pissed all over NOAH this year, in terms of one on one main events at the very least.

Although I have to disagree on Shimmer. Outside of a handful of matches, the quality of the wrestling is piss poor. Basically there's very little quality women's wrestling out there that didn't take place in the early 90's in Japan.

Yeah, i think criticism of NOAH has at times been harsh, but then again, New Japan hasn't always recieved the praise it's deserved of late.

For me, Shimmer's a work in progress, and the top girls are capable of great matches, whereas some of the others are a little less polished. But I really appreciate their simplified, old-school booking, and logical storyline progression. And personally, I think Lacey's fantastic, because her portrayal of her character is so believable and convincing. I think it was on volume 7 or 8, where her and Rain fought Mischief and Melissa, and i was really critical of the two M's, but full of praise for the the MHWCrew, because both her and Rain were so well schooled in crowd interaction, and conveying emotion, wheras the faces lacked personality. That said, i also think Melissa and Mischief have been improving on their weaknesses. I guess it all depends what you're looking for in a wrestling show!

Tomko's kick to the face

Tomko in 2007 full stop- he's been great